Re: Searching for doctors

[Guest guest]

Here's a list of the labs, although, it's slightly outdated as there are a few

more that he now runs:

http://www.moldwarriors.com/PDFs/NTordersheet.pdf

I highly recommend that your friend go ahead and get the new patient packet from

Dr. Shoemaker's office and work that in parallel. It requires alot of detailed

information and it took me quite a while to get that completed. I also tried to

get a local doctor to run the tests. However, it is very difficult to get

doctors to follow another doctor's approach. I have friends that have tried the

same thing with their local doctors and had similar results. My local doctor

was willing to prescribe the CSM, but she just didn't see the point in running

all the tests. If you read Mold Warriors you will find that some patients do

not get well on CSM alone. If your friend is one of those (like myself), they'll

need to see Dr. Shoemaker eventually anyways, which goes back to my first point.

In the end, I invested alot more dollars and time in local doctors trying to get

the right treatment than I did in traveling from Texas to Pocomoke and seeing

Dr. Shoemaker and actually getting the r

ight treatment. You will, of course, still require a local doctor for other

things, but those test results have been invaluable in terms of my local doctor

finally understanding that I'm not just a " normal " hypothyroid patient. The

results also helped my accupuncturist in deciding what I should be treated for

next.

As a starting point, though, if your friend is determined to use a local doctor,

I would suggest looking for a physician that's a member of ACAM:

http://www.acam.org/dr_search/index.php

Dr. Shoemaker spoke at their conference this past May, so your friend could use

that as the basis for discussion, although the focus of that discussion was

Lyme, the neurotoxin treatment is the same. I have had some success with

doctors by going in with the explicit research and proposed treatment.

B.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: " moldcankill " <moldcankill@...>

Hi Group,

I just talked to a friend in Kalamazoo, Michigan. He believes that he

is sick from toxic mold. His ENT even found black mold spores inside of

his ears. I am trying to help him find a doctor near him who will help

him. Does anyone know of any doctors around that area (Toledo,

Chicago, Detroit). I tried to talk him into going to Shoemaker but it

is not something that he is able to do right now.

He wants to have a doctor run Shoemaker's testing and treat him with

the CSM? Where can I find an explanation of the labs so that he can

bring them to a doctor in his area? Thank you for your help.

[Guest guest]

I got this from a toxin report Dr. Shoemaker did for St. Bernard's Parish,

LA.

Appendix A to RCS Letter February 22, 2006

Vision Tests & Analyses

All subjects who normally wore corrective lenses for near-point viewing were

asked to wear

them during vision testing. The visual acuity and VCS tests were

administered monocularly

to each eye; an eye occluder was held over one eye while the other eye was

tested. All

vision tests were administered under illumination from a " daylight "

illuminator (fluorescent

source with a correlated color temperature of approximately = 6500E K; color

rendering

index > 90; intensity = 1150 lux; luminance approximately 70 foot-lamberts)

in a clinical

unit with normal background lighting. A light meter was used to insure that

luminance

remained constant throughout the test sessions. A test card holder,

consisting of a face rest

placed just under the cheek bones or chin as comfort provided, and connected

by a calibrated

rod to a card holder on the distal end, was used to position the acuity and

VCS test cards at a

constant distance, previously standardized, from the eyes (acuity - 36 cm

(14 inches);

contrast sensitivity - 46 cm (18 inches)).

Near Visual Acuity

The acuity test card (MIS Pocket Vision Guide, © 1997 MIS, Inc.) contained

10 rows of

numbers in which the size of the numbers progressed from a larger size in

the top row to a

smaller size in the bottom row. Participants were asked to first read the

numbers in a middle

row. Testing proceeded to the next lower row if all numbers were correctly

identified or to

the next higher row if an error occurred. The Snellen visual acuity of the

row (20/20 or

20/30, for example) with the smallest numbers each identified correctly was

recorded as the

visual acuity score. Two-tailed Student t-tests 0.05 were performed, using

the mean score of

each participant's two eyes, to determine if scores differed significantly

between cohorts.

Contrast Sensitivity (VCS)

The contrast sensitivity test card (Functional Acuity contrast Test, (FACT),

Stereo Optical

Co., Chicago, IL, a Gerber-Coburn Co.) contained a matrix (5 x 9) of circles

filled with

sinusoidal gratings (dark and light bars). Spatial frequency (1.5, 3, 6, 12

and 18 cycles/degree

of visual arc) increased from top to bottom, and contrast decreased from

left to right in steps

of approximately 0.15 log units. The grating bars were oriented either

vertically, or tilted 15

degrees to the left or right. As the investigator called out each circle

from left to right, row by

row, subjects responded by saying either: vertical, left, right or blank.

Participants were

encouraged to name an orientation if they had any indication that the bars

could be seen.

Participants were given the option to point in the direction to which the

top of the grating was

tilted if they felt any difficulty in verbalizing the orientation; none

needed this assistance.

The contrast sensitivity score for each row (spatial frequency) was recorded

as the contrast of

the last test patch correctly identified on that row following verification

by repeated testing of

that patch and the subsequent patch. The procedure was repeated for each row

in descending

order. The a priori criterion for the inclusion of data in analyses was that

the eye has a visual

acuity (Snellen Distance Equivalent Score) of 20:50 or better, in order to

avoid confounding

of the VCS results by excessive optical-refraction error. All eyes include

in data analyses met

the visual acuity criterion.

Data Analysis:

The units of analysis for the VCS test were the mean scores of the

participant's two eyes at

each spatial frequency. Standard error of the mean was calculated for each

group of

measurements. The VCS data were analyzed using multivariate analyses of

variance

(MANOVA, with the Wilks' lambda statistic) procedures suitable for repeated

measures with

+ = 0.05. The factors in the model were group and spatial frequency. A

factor for gender

was not included since there aren't any gender differences in susceptibility

to biotoxininduced

effects shown as yet, and no gender differences in VCS have been reported.

Results

that showed a significant group-by-spatial frequency interaction were

further analyzed in the

step-down, two-tailed Student t-tests (+ = 0.05), the equivalent of a

univariate ANOVA to

determine which spatial frequencies accounted for the overall effect.

Laboratory:

LabCorp, Inc., Quest Diagnostics, and Specialty Laboratories, Inc., each

CLIA approved,

high complexity, national laboratory facilities.

MSH: alpha melanocyte stimulating hormone (MSH) is a 13 amino acid compound

formed

in the ventromedial nucleus (VMN) of the hypothalamus, solitary nucleus and

arcuate

nucleus by cleavage of proopiomelanocortin (POMC) to yield beta-endorphin

and MSH.

MSH exerts inductive regulatory effects on production of hypothalamic

endorphins and

melatonin. MSH has multiple anti-inflammatory and neurohormonal regulatory

functions,

exerting regulatory control on peripheral cytokine release as well as on

both anterior and

posterior pituitary function. Deficiency of MSH, commonly seen in

biotoxin-associated

illnesses, is associated with impairment of multiple regulatory functions

and dysregulation of

pituitary hormone release. Symptoms associated with MSH deficiency include

chronic

fatigue and chronic, unusual pain syndromes. Normal values of MSH in

commercial labs

(Esoterix and LabCorp) are 35-81 pg/ml.

Leptin: leptin is a 146 amino acid adipocytokine produced by fat cells in

response to rising

levels of fatty acids. Leptin has peripheral metabolic effects, promoting

storage of fatty

acids, as well as central effects in the hypothalamus. Following binding by

leptin to a long

isoform of the leptin receptor in the VMN, a primordial gp-130 cytokine

receptor, a JAK

signal causes transcription of the gene for POMC, which is in turned cleaved

to make MSH.

Peripheral cytokine responses can cause phosphorylation of a serine moiety

(instead of

threonine) on the leptin receptor, creating leptin resistance and relative

deficiency of MSH

production. Normal values in commercial labs show differences between males

(5-8 ng/ml)

and females (8-18 ng/ml), with levels of leptin correlated with BMI.

ADH/osmolality: abnormalities in ADH/osmolality are recorded as absolute if

ADH is < 1.3

or > 8 pg/ml; or if osmolality is >295 or <275 mOsm/kg. Abnormalities are

recorded as

relative if simultaneous osmolality is 292-295 and ADH < 2.3; or if osmo is

275-278 and

ADH> 4.0. Symptoms associated with dysregulation of ADH include dehydration,

frequent

urination, with urine showing low specific gravity; excessive thirst and

sensitivity to static

electrical shocks; as well as edema and rapid weight gain due to fluid

retention during initial

correction of ADH deficits.

ACTH/cortisol: abnormalities in ACTH/cortisol are absolute if AM cortisol >

19 ug/ml or <

8 ug/ml; or if AMACTH is >60 pg/ml or < 10 pg/ml. Abnormalities are recorded

as

dysregulation if simultaneous cortisol is > 15 and ACTH is > 15, or if

cortisol is < 8 and

ACTH <40. Early in the illness, as MSH begins to fall, high ACTH is

associated with few

symptoms; amarked increase in symptoms is associated with a fall in ACTH.

Finding

simultaneous high cortisol and high ACTH may prompt consideration of ACTH

secreting

tumors, but the reality is that the dysregulation usually corrects with

therapy.

Androgens: total testosterone, androstenedione and DHEA-S provide

measurements

regarding the effectiveness of gonadotrophin secretion as influenced

adversely by MSH

deficiency. Normal ranges of these hormones in males are 75-205 ng/ml for

androstenedione, 350-1030 ng/ml for testosterone and 70-218 ug/ml for

DHEA-S. Normal

values for pre-menopausal women are 60-245, 10-55 and 48-247, respectively.

Postmenopausal

normal ranges are 30-120, 7-40 and 48-247, respectively.

HLA DR by PCR: LabCorp offers a standard HLA DR typing assay of 10 alleles

using a

PCR sequence specific chain reaction technique. As opposed to serologic

assays for the

HLA DR genotypes, the PCR gives far greater specificity in distinguishing

individual allele

polymorphisms. Linkage disequilibrium is strong in these genotypes, with

multiple

associations made to inflammatory and autoimmune disease. These genes are

part of the

human major histocompatibility complex (MHC), also called the HLA complex,

located on

the short arm of chromosome 6. Relative risk was calculated, susceptible

genotypes

identified, compared within each group to location and exposure.

MMP9: matrix metalloproteinase 9 (gelatinase is an extracellular

zinc-dependent enzyme

produced by cytokine-stimulated neutrophils and macrophages. MMP9 is

involved in

degradation of extracellular matrix; it has been implicated in the

pathogenesis COPD by

destruction of lung elastin, in rheumatoid arthritis, atherosclerosis,

cardiomyopathy, and

abdominal aortic aneurysm. Cytokines that stimulate MMP9 production include

IL-1, IL-2,

TNF, IL-1B, interferons alpha and gamma. MMP9 is felt to play a role in

central nervous

system disease including demyelination, by generation of myelin peptides, as

it can break

down myelin basic protein. MMP9 " delivers " inflammatory elements out of

blood into

subintimal spaces, where further delivery into solid organs (brain, lung,

muscle, peripheral

nerve and joint) is initiated. Normal ranges of MMP9 have a mean of 150,

with range of 85-

322 ng/ml.

C3a and C4a: Split products of complement activation, often called

anaphylatoxins. Each

activates inflammatory responses, with spillover of effect from innate

immune response to

acquired immune responses and hematologic parameters. These short-lived

products are remanufactured

rapidly, such that an initial rise of plasma levels is seen within 12 hours

of

exposure and sustained elevation is seen until definitive therapy is

initiated. The components

increase vascular permeability, release inflammatory elements from

macrophages,

neutrophils and monocytes, stimulate smooth muscle spasm in small blood

vessels and

disrupt normal apoptosis.

Anticardiolipins IgA, IgM and IgG: autoantibodies often identified in

collagen vascular

diseases such as lupus and scleroderma; often called anti-phospholipids.

These antibodies in

high titers are associated with increased intravascular coagulation

requiring treatment with

heparin and coumadin. Lower levels titers are associated with

hypercoagulability. An

increased risk of spontaneous fetal loss in the first trimester of pregnancy

is not uncommonly

seen in women with presence of cardiolipin antibodies. This problem does not

have the same

" dose-response " relationship seen with levels of autoantibodies and illness

as does the antiphospholipid

syndrome. Anticardiolipins are found in over 33% of children with biotoxin

associated illnesses.

Antigliadin IgA and IgG: Antibodies thought at one time to be specific for

celiac disease.

With the advent of testing for IgA antibodies to tissue transglutaminase

(TTG-IgA), gliadin

antibodies are most often seen in patients with low levels of MSH. Ingestion

of gliadin, the

22-amino acid protein found in gluten (found in wheat, oats, barley and rye;

often added to

processed foods) will initiate a release of pro-inflammatory cytokines in

the tissues lining the

intestinal tract. This cytokine effect will often cause symptoms within 30

minutes of

ingestion that mimic attention deficit disorder, often leading to an

incorrect diagnosis.

Antigliadin antibodies are found in over 58% of children with

biotoxin-associated illnesses.

Vasoactive intestinal polypeptide (VIP): neuroregulatory hormone with

receptors in

suprachiasmatic nucleus of hypothalamus. This hormone/cytokine regulates

peripheral

cytokine responses, pulmonary artery pressures and inflammatory responses

throughout the

body. Deficiency is commonly seen in mold illness patients, particularly

those with dyspnea

on exertion.

[Guest guest]

This answers some long time questions about the VCS test I had asked earlier.

This seems to implicate that there would be a difference in monitors used and/or

the lighting in the roon if you are taking the test from home. Plus there is

some more very good information here. Thank you for the post. This is great

information.

Chris...

Life is a balance of holding on and letting go...

Re: [] Searching for doctors

I got this from a toxin report Dr. Shoemaker did for St. Bernard's Parish,

LA.

Appendix A to RCS Letter February 22, 2006

Vision Tests & Analyses

All subjects who normally wore corrective lenses for near-point viewing were

asked to wear

them during vision testing. The visual acuity and VCS tests were

administered monocularly

to each eye; an eye occluder was held over one eye while the other eye was

tested. All

vision tests were administered under illumination from a " daylight "

illuminator (fluorescent

source with a correlated color temperature of approximately = 6500E K; color

rendering

index > 90; intensity = 1150 lux; luminance approximately 70 foot-lamberts)

in a clinical

unit with normal background lighting. A light meter was used to insure that

luminance

remained constant throughout the test sessions. A test card holder,

consisting of a face rest

placed just under the cheek bones or chin as comfort provided, and connected

by a calibrated

rod to a card holder on the distal end, was used to position the acuity and

VCS test cards at a

constant distance, previously standardized, from the eyes (acuity - 36 cm

(14 inches);

contrast sensitivity - 46 cm (18 inches)).

Near Visual Acuity

The acuity test card (MIS Pocket Vision Guide, © 1997 MIS, Inc.) contained

10 rows of

numbers in which the size of the numbers progressed from a larger size in

the top row to a

smaller size in the bottom row. Participants were asked to first read the

numbers in a middle

row. Testing proceeded to the next lower row if all numbers were correctly

identified or to

the next higher row if an error occurred. The Snellen visual acuity of the

row (20/20 or

20/30, for example) with the smallest numbers each identified correctly was

recorded as the

visual acuity score. Two-tailed Student t-tests 0.05 were performed, using

the mean score of

each participant' s two eyes, to determine if scores differed significantly

between cohorts.

Contrast Sensitivity (VCS)

The contrast sensitivity test card (Functional Acuity contrast Test, (FACT),

Stereo Optical

Co., Chicago, IL, a Gerber-Coburn Co.) contained a matrix (5 x 9) of circles

filled with

sinusoidal gratings (dark and light bars). Spatial frequency (1.5, 3, 6, 12

and 18 cycles/degree

of visual arc) increased from top to bottom, and contrast decreased from

left to right in steps

of approximately 0.15 log units. The grating bars were oriented either

vertically, or tilted 15

degrees to the left or right. As the investigator called out each circle

from left to right, row by

row, subjects responded by saying either: vertical, left, right or blank.

Participants were

encouraged to name an orientation if they had any indication that the bars

could be seen.

Participants were given the option to point in the direction to which the

top of the grating was

tilted if they felt any difficulty in verbalizing the orientation; none

needed this assistance.

The contrast sensitivity score for each row (spatial frequency) was recorded

as the contrast of

the last test patch correctly identified on that row following verification

by repeated testing of

that patch and the subsequent patch. The procedure was repeated for each row

in descending

order. The a priori criterion for the inclusion of data in analyses was that

the eye has a visual

acuity (Snellen Distance Equivalent Score) of 20:50 or better, in order to

avoid confounding

of the VCS results by excessive optical-refraction error. All eyes include

in data analyses met

the visual acuity criterion.

Data Analysis:

The units of analysis for the VCS test were the mean scores of the

participant' s two eyes at

each spatial frequency. Standard error of the mean was calculated for each

group of

measurements. The VCS data were analyzed using multivariate analyses of

variance

(MANOVA, with the Wilks' lambda statistic) procedures suitable for repeated

measures with

+ = 0.05. The factors in the model were group and spatial frequency. A

factor for gender

was not included since there aren't any gender differences in susceptibility

to biotoxininduced

effects shown as yet, and no gender differences in VCS have been reported.

Results

that showed a significant group-by-spatial frequency interaction were

further analyzed in the

step-down, two-tailed Student t-tests (+ = 0.05), the equivalent of a

univariate ANOVA to

determine which spatial frequencies accounted for the overall effect.

Laboratory:

LabCorp, Inc., Quest Diagnostics, and Specialty Laboratories, Inc., each

CLIA approved,

high complexity, national laboratory facilities.

MSH: alpha melanocyte stimulating hormone (MSH) is a 13 amino acid compound

formed

in the ventromedial nucleus (VMN) of the hypothalamus, solitary nucleus and

arcuate

nucleus by cleavage of proopiomelanocortin (POMC) to yield beta-endorphin

and MSH.

MSH exerts inductive regulatory effects on production of hypothalamic

endorphins and

melatonin. MSH has multiple anti-inflammatory and neurohormonal regulatory

functions,

exerting regulatory control on peripheral cytokine release as well as on

both anterior and

posterior pituitary function. Deficiency of MSH, commonly seen in

biotoxin-associated

illnesses, is associated with impairment of multiple regulatory functions

and dysregulation of

pituitary hormone release. Symptoms associated with MSH deficiency include

chronic

fatigue and chronic, unusual pain syndromes. Normal values of MSH in

commercial labs

(Esoterix and LabCorp) are 35-81 pg/ml.

Leptin: leptin is a 146 amino acid adipocytokine produced by fat cells in

response to rising

levels of fatty acids. Leptin has peripheral metabolic effects, promoting

storage of fatty

acids, as well as central effects in the hypothalamus. Following binding by

leptin to a long

isoform of the leptin receptor in the VMN, a primordial gp-130 cytokine

receptor, a JAK

signal causes transcription of the gene for POMC, which is in turned cleaved

to make MSH.

Peripheral cytokine responses can cause phosphorylation of a serine moiety

(instead of

threonine) on the leptin receptor, creating leptin resistance and relative

deficiency of MSH

production. Normal values in commercial labs show differences between males

(5-8 ng/ml)

and females (8-18 ng/ml), with levels of leptin correlated with BMI.

ADH/osmolality: abnormalities in ADH/osmolality are recorded as absolute if

ADH is < 1.3

or > 8 pg/ml; or if osmolality is >295 or <275 mOsm/kg. Abnormalities are

recorded as

relative if simultaneous osmolality is 292-295 and ADH < 2.3; or if osmo is

275-278 and

ADH> 4.0. Symptoms associated with dysregulation of ADH include dehydration,

frequent

urination, with urine showing low specific gravity; excessive thirst and

sensitivity to static

electrical shocks; as well as edema and rapid weight gain due to fluid

retention during initial

correction of ADH deficits.

ACTH/cortisol: abnormalities in ACTH/cortisol are absolute if AM cortisol >

19 ug/ml or <

8 ug/ml; or if AMACTH is >60 pg/ml or < 10 pg/ml. Abnormalities are recorded

as

dysregulation if simultaneous cortisol is > 15 and ACTH is > 15, or if

cortisol is < 8 and

ACTH <40. Early in the illness, as MSH begins to fall, high ACTH is

associated with few

symptoms; amarked increase in symptoms is associated with a fall in ACTH.

Finding

simultaneous high cortisol and high ACTH may prompt consideration of ACTH

secreting

tumors, but the reality is that the dysregulation usually corrects with

therapy.

Androgens: total testosterone, androstenedione and DHEA-S provide

measurements

regarding the effectiveness of gonadotrophin secretion as influenced

adversely by MSH

deficiency. Normal ranges of these hormones in males are 75-205 ng/ml for

androstenedione, 350-1030 ng/ml for testosterone and 70-218 ug/ml for

DHEA-S. Normal

values for pre-menopausal women are 60-245, 10-55 and 48-247, respectively.

Postmenopausal

normal ranges are 30-120, 7-40 and 48-247, respectively.

HLA DR by PCR: LabCorp offers a standard HLA DR typing assay of 10 alleles

using a

PCR sequence specific chain reaction technique. As opposed to serologic

assays for the

HLA DR genotypes, the PCR gives far greater specificity in distinguishing

individual allele

polymorphisms. Linkage disequilibrium is strong in these genotypes, with

multiple

associations made to inflammatory and autoimmune disease. These genes are

part of the

human major histocompatibility complex (MHC), also called the HLA complex,

located on

the short arm of chromosome 6. Relative risk was calculated, susceptible

genotypes

identified, compared within each group to location and exposure.

MMP9: matrix metalloproteinase 9 (gelatinase is an extracellular

zinc-dependent enzyme

produced by cytokine-stimulated neutrophils and macrophages. MMP9 is

involved in

degradation of extracellular matrix; it has been implicated in the

pathogenesis COPD by

destruction of lung elastin, in rheumatoid arthritis, atherosclerosis,

cardiomyopathy, and

abdominal aortic aneurysm. Cytokines that stimulate MMP9 production include

IL-1, IL-2,

TNF, IL-1B, interferons alpha and gamma. MMP9 is felt to play a role in

central nervous

system disease including demyelination, by generation of myelin peptides, as

it can break

down myelin basic protein. MMP9 " delivers " inflammatory elements out of

blood into

subintimal spaces, where further delivery into solid organs (brain, lung,

muscle, peripheral

nerve and joint) is initiated. Normal ranges of MMP9 have a mean of 150,

with range of 85-

322 ng/ml.

C3a and C4a: Split products of complement activation, often called

anaphylatoxins. Each

activates inflammatory responses, with spillover of effect from innate

immune response to

acquired immune responses and hematologic parameters. These short-lived

products are remanufactured

rapidly, such that an initial rise of plasma levels is seen within 12 hours

of

exposure and sustained elevation is seen until definitive therapy is

initiated. The components

increase vascular permeability, release inflammatory elements from

macrophages,

neutrophils and monocytes, stimulate smooth muscle spasm in small blood

vessels and

disrupt normal apoptosis.

Anticardiolipins IgA, IgM and IgG: autoantibodies often identified in

collagen vascular

diseases such as lupus and scleroderma; often called anti-phospholipids.

These antibodies in

high titers are associated with increased intravascular coagulation

requiring treatment with

heparin and coumadin. Lower levels titers are associated with

hypercoagulability. An

increased risk of spontaneous fetal loss in the first trimester of pregnancy

is not uncommonly

seen in women with presence of cardiolipin antibodies. This problem does not

have the same

" dose-response " relationship seen with levels of autoantibodies and illness

as does the antiphospholipid

syndrome. Anticardiolipins are found in over 33% of children with biotoxin

associated illnesses.

Antigliadin IgA and IgG: Antibodies thought at one time to be specific for

celiac disease.

With the advent of testing for IgA antibodies to tissue transglutaminase

(TTG-IgA), gliadin

antibodies are most often seen in patients with low levels of MSH. Ingestion

of gliadin, the

22-amino acid protein found in gluten (found in wheat, oats, barley and rye;

often added to

processed foods) will initiate a release of pro-inflammatory cytokines in

the tissues lining the

intestinal tract. This cytokine effect will often cause symptoms within 30

minutes of

ingestion that mimic attention deficit disorder, often leading to an

incorrect diagnosis.

Antigliadin antibodies are found in over 58% of children with

biotoxin-associated illnesses.

Vasoactive intestinal polypeptide (VIP): neuroregulatory hormone with

receptors in

suprachiasmatic nucleus of hypothalamus. This hormone/cytokine regulates

peripheral

cytokine responses, pulmonary artery pressures and inflammatory responses

throughout the

body. Deficiency is commonly seen in mold illness patients, particularly

those with dyspnea

on exertion.

[Guest guest]

--- In , " moldcankill " <moldcankill@...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Group,

>

> I just talked to a friend in Kalamazoo, Michigan. He believes that

he

> is sick from toxic mold. His ENT even found black mold spores

inside of

> his ears. I am trying to help him find a doctor near him who will

help

> him. Does anyone know of any doctors around that area (Toledo,

> Chicago, Detroit). I tried to talk him into going to Shoemaker but

it

> is not something that he is able to do right now.

>

> He wants to have a doctor run Shoemaker's testing and treat him

with

> the CSM? Where can I find an explanation of the labs so that he

can

> bring them to a doctor in his area? Thank you for your help.

You can find an explanation of the labs in the back of Shoemaker's

book- Mold Warriors. But let me just say that you are better off

doing the labs in Shoemaker's office. I did them here in Kansas

because I was told from Shoemaker's office that he would work with my

allergy dr. to help diagnose me and get me treated. Dr. Shoemaker

didn't give us the time of day even after I did all the bloodwork

because I was not his patient. Nor would he do any phone

consultations because I was not his patient. So you are better off

just going to land and doing it once. ( or do the labs and take

them with you to Shoemaker's office). I wasted a lot of time because

I believed that he would tell my dr. what to do with me, but he

didn't. Now I have to go to land and see him to get my problems

solved. Tell your friend to start the CSM now. He doesn't have to

go to maryland to do that and it will help start to get the toxins

out of his system. I buy the box of 60 packets of cholestyrimine.

Tell your friend to take 4 packs a day- 30 minutes before he eats

anything. That is what Shoemaker suggests. And tell him to read

Mold Warriors and Desperate Medicine. He will have to do this before

shoemaker will see him anyhow. Call and get a new patient packet

from their office. There are A Lot of requirements to see

Shoemaker. He is very expensive-- you are looking at close to $1000

just to get your foot in the door. That includes all the bloodwork

you are required to do and the $150 read your file fee, and the $75

fee he has for msh research and stipends. You will also need to

have dr. records from all your dr.'s from the last 5 yrs. Good luck

and get on it because it takes a while to get in to him-- but I'm

sure it is worth it. He can save lives!

[Guest guest]

Just to let you know so there is not any shock involved as far as going too see

Dr. Shoemaker. You can expect to pay just a we bit more than that. We, meaning

alot. I have an appointment and will be going in the begining of December. I

don't want to scare anyone off because if you want answers you are going to get

them there but it is best to be prepared financially. If you are lucky you have

insurance and that should help quite a bit. If you don't have insurance I would

suggest regardless of the cost get it before hand. If for no other reason you

will not have to deal with pre existing conditions in the future. These are hard

lesons I am learning as time goes on.

Chris...

Life is a balance of holding on and letting go...

[] Re: Searching for doctors

--- In , " moldcankill " <moldcankill@ ...>

wrote:

>

> Hi Group,

>

> I just talked to a friend in Kalamazoo, Michigan. He believes that

he

> is sick from toxic mold. His ENT even found black mold spores

inside of

> his ears. I am trying to help him find a doctor near him who will

help

> him. Does anyone know of any doctors around that area (Toledo,

> Chicago, Detroit). I tried to talk him into going to Shoemaker but

it

> is not something that he is able to do right now.

>

> He wants to have a doctor run Shoemaker's testing and treat him

with

> the CSM? Where can I find an explanation of the labs so that he

can

> bring them to a doctor in his area? Thank you for your help.

You can find an explanation of the labs in the back of Shoemaker's

book- Mold Warriors. But let me just say that you are better off

doing the labs in Shoemaker's office. I did them here in Kansas

because I was told from Shoemaker's office that he would work with my

allergy dr. to help diagnose me and get me treated. Dr. Shoemaker

didn't give us the time of day even after I did all the bloodwork

because I was not his patient. Nor would he do any phone

consultations because I was not his patient. So you are better off

just going to land and doing it once. ( or do the labs and take

them with you to Shoemaker's office). I wasted a lot of time because

I believed that he would tell my dr. what to do with me, but he

didn't. Now I have to go to land and see him to get my problems

solved. Tell your friend to start the CSM now. He doesn't have to

go to maryland to do that and it will help start to get the toxins

out of his system. I buy the box of 60 packets of cholestyrimine.

Tell your friend to take 4 packs a day- 30 minutes before he eats

anything. That is what Shoemaker suggests. And tell him to read

Mold Warriors and Desperate Medicine. He will have to do this before

shoemaker will see him anyhow. Call and get a new patient packet

from their office. There are A Lot of requirements to see

Shoemaker. He is very expensive-- you are looking at close to $1000

just to get your foot in the door. That includes all the bloodwork

you are required to do and the $150 read your file fee, and the $75

fee he has for msh research and stipends. You will also need to

have dr. records from all your dr.'s from the last 5 yrs. Good luck

and get on it because it takes a while to get in to him-- but I'm

sure it is worth it. He can save lives!

[Guest guest]

There is a doctor here in Michigan. I have to find his name. Dr. Shoemaker

even referred my kids to him, however he does not work with children. He is

somewhere near Royal Oak. When I find the info. I'll let you know.

[] Re: Searching for doctors

>

> Hi Group,

>

> I just talked to a friend in Kalamazoo, Michigan. He believes that

he

> is sick from toxic mold. His ENT even found black mold spores

inside of

> his ears. I am trying to help him find a doctor near him who will

help

> him. Does anyone know of any doctors around that area (Toledo,

> Chicago, Detroit). I tried to talk him into going to Shoemaker but

it

> is not something that he is able to do right now.

>

> He wants to have a doctor run Shoemaker's testing and treat him

with

> the CSM? Where can I find an explanation of the labs so that he

can

> bring them to a doctor in his area? Thank you for your help.

You can find an explanation of the labs in the back of Shoemaker's

book- Mold Warriors. But let me just say that you are better off

doing the labs in Shoemaker's office. I did them here in Kansas

because I was told from Shoemaker's office that he would work with my

allergy dr. to help diagnose me and get me treated. Dr. Shoemaker

didn't give us the time of day even after I did all the bloodwork

because I was not his patient. Nor would he do any phone

consultations because I was not his patient. So you are better off

just going to land and doing it once. ( or do the labs and take

them with you to Shoemaker's office). I wasted a lot of time because

I believed that he would tell my dr. what to do with me, but he

didn't. Now I have to go to land and see him to get my problems

solved. Tell your friend to start the CSM now. He doesn't have to

go to maryland to do that and it will help start to get the toxins

out of his system. I buy the box of 60 packets of cholestyrimine.

Tell your friend to take 4 packs a day- 30 minutes before he eats

anything. That is what Shoemaker suggests. And tell him to read

Mold Warriors and Desperate Medicine. He will have to do this before

shoemaker will see him anyhow. Call and get a new patient packet

from their office. There are A Lot of requirements to see

Shoemaker. He is very expensive-- you are looking at close to $1000

just to get your foot in the door. That includes all the bloodwork

you are required to do and the $150 read your file fee, and the $75

fee he has for msh research and stipends. You will also need to

have dr. records from all your dr.'s from the last 5 yrs. Good luck

and get on it because it takes a while to get in to him-- but I'm

sure it is worth it. He can save lives!

[Guest guest]

This $1000 INCLUDES THE COST OF THE LAB WORK?

OMG, I have been so stupid..

That is great news for me, because I have been holding off on the lab work

because the combined cost that I was quoted, buying them all one at a time

was way, way over that.. If it is 'just' $1000 then that puts it in a

different perspective completely..

> Tell your friend to take 4 packs a day- 30 minutes before he eats

> anything. That is what Shoemaker suggests. And tell him to read

> Mold Warriors and Desperate Medicine. He will have to do this before

> shoemaker will see him anyhow. Call and get a new patient packet

> from their office. There are A Lot of requirements to see

> Shoemaker. He is very expensive-- you are looking at close to $1000

> just to get your foot in the door. That includes all the bloodwork

> you are required to do and the $150 read your file fee, and the $75

> fee he has for msh research and stipends. You will also need to

> have dr. records from all your dr.'s from the last 5 yrs. Good luck

> and get on it because it takes a while to get in to him-- but I'm

> sure it is worth it. He can save lives!

>

> __._,_.

>

>

[Guest guest]

No, you've not been stupid - that $1000 estimate does not include the lab work

at all. My first office visit was like $600, which only included an EKG and the

initial 2 hour appointment, then there are those other charges for the record

review, etc. that you send when you send in your paperwork. That total was more

like the $150 + $75, so that's $225. Then, there a couple labs that you have to

pay cash for as they will no longer charge the insurance company. All these

numbers are listed clearly in the new patient information packet. My lab work

was well, well over $1000 that was charged to the insurance. Even if you pay

cash, I don't think there's any way you're getting all those labs and the

initial appt for $1000. I didn't have any doctor's records (for myself) - only

my copies of labs that I sent in with all the requisite paperwork, which

requires alot of detail in itself.

That all said, I still found the total cost, including travel from Texas to be a

bargain compared to all the time and money I've spent with doctors that couldn't

figure out a thing and that kept running the same CBCs and CMPs and telling me

there was nothing wrong with me - indeed once they see my CRP and HDL

cholesterol, they're usually pretty much finished listening to me at all and

ready to send me on my way with anti-depressants. Shoemaker's tests were the

first and only that really showed that I am sick - and we had the results in

just a few weeks. It's taken my local doc 1.5 years to finally come to the

conclusion that there is something really abnormal about my endocrine system.

Be well,

B.

-------------- Original message --------------

From: LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

This $1000 INCLUDES THE COST OF THE LAB WORK?

OMG, I have been so stupid..

That is great news for me, because I have been holding off on the lab work

because the combined cost that I was quoted, buying them all one at a time

was way, way over that.. If it is 'just' $1000 then that puts it in a

different perspective completely..

> Tell your friend to take 4 packs a day- 30 minutes before he eats

> anything. That is what Shoemaker suggests. And tell him to read

> Mold Warriors and Desperate Medicine. He will have to do this before

> shoemaker will see him anyhow. Call and get a new patient packet

> from their office. There are A Lot of requirements to see

> Shoemaker. He is very expensive-- you are looking at close to $1000

> just to get your foot in the door. That includes all the bloodwork

> you are required to do and the $150 read your file fee, and the $75

> fee he has for msh research and stipends. You will also need to

> have dr. records from all your dr.'s from the last 5 yrs. Good luck

> and get on it because it takes a while to get in to him-- but I'm

> sure it is worth it. He can save lives!

>

> __._,_.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have made it through the tornado's yesterday and now have my life back, Ooops

I mean the internet. If you or anyone else is planning on going to see Dr.

Shoemaker I am just going to say it. Prepare to spend just under $5000.00. The

only figure I am uncertain for sure on is the brain scan. I was offered the

dicission to bypass this test but declined. I figured if I am going I want

whatever is offered and want to know everything I can. The figures below are

close but slightly off. The office visit (this is for people in or going into

litigation. It might be lower for those not going to court???) The cost is

$675.00 The labs in his office are around $700.00 to $800.00 (I believe the

exact figure was $775.00) the labs sent out is $3000.00. The record review

charge is $150.00. You are required to pay a $75.00 CRBAI membership fee. You

are also given the choice of having the cytokine panel, MMP-9 and serial MMP-9

tests done for $60.00. Again, I don't know the cost of the brain

scan. By the time I had added these figures up it seemed alittle irrelevant at

that point.

As I stated before I don't hand out these figures to scare anyone but it is best

to be prepared. I have no doubt it will be well spent money. Had I just done

this first I would have actually saved some money. My best advice to anyone is

to get a health insurance policy first if it is all possible. I have learned

this the hard way. Between now needing a root canal and some other dental work

and yesterday finding out about a horribly painful ear infection (Sorry KC, the

vinegar did not help me any) Now I have a lovely little pre-existing condition

problem I will have to deal with for a long time. But I like everyone else know

how hard it is to do anything. I only have my family to thank for their help,

otherwise I would just plain be *%#%*#...

As for my comment about the internet, it is amazingly scary how true the recent

sprint commercial is. Where the guys friend grabs his blackberry and he suddenly

looks around like he is lost. Yikes. But on the positive side I have gotten to

page 35 in Mold Warriors. I am already hooked and will continue reading it. I

highly recommend it and I have not read much but I hate reading and it has

taken me an entire day to get that far. If you plan to go to Shoemakers office

don't buy it. All his books are included in your fees.

Hope this clears any confusion on the cost's associated with what you will

eventually pay regardless.

Chris...

Life is a balance of holding on and letting go...

Re: [] Re: Searching for doctors

No, you've not been stupid - that $1000 estimate does not include the lab work

at all. My first office visit was like $600, which only included an EKG and the

initial 2 hour appointment, then there are those other charges for the record

review, etc. that you send when you send in your paperwork. That total was more

like the $150 + $75, so that's $225. Then, there a couple labs that you have to

pay cash for as they will no longer charge the insurance company. All these

numbers are listed clearly in the new patient information packet. My lab work

was well, well over $1000 that was charged to the insurance. Even if you pay

cash, I don't think there's any way you're getting all those labs and the

initial appt for $1000. I didn't have any doctor's records (for myself) - only

my copies of labs that I sent in with all the requisite paperwork, which

requires alot of detail in itself.

That all said, I still found the total cost, including travel from Texas to be a

bargain compared to all the time and money I've spent with doctors that couldn't

figure out a thing and that kept running the same CBCs and CMPs and telling me

there was nothing wrong with me - indeed once they see my CRP and HDL

cholesterol, they're usually pretty much finished listening to me at all and

ready to send me on my way with anti-depressants. Shoemaker's tests were the

first and only that really showed that I am sick - and we had the results in

just a few weeks. It's taken my local doc 1.5 years to finally come to the

conclusion that there is something really abnormal about my endocrine system.

Be well,

B.

------------ -- Original message ------------ --

From: LiveSimply <quackadillian@ gmail.com>

This $1000 INCLUDES THE COST OF THE LAB WORK?

OMG, I have been so stupid..

That is great news for me, because I have been holding off on the lab work

because the combined cost that I was quoted, buying them all one at a time

was way, way over that.. If it is 'just' $1000 then that puts it in a

different perspective completely..

> Tell your friend to take 4 packs a day- 30 minutes before he eats

> anything. That is what Shoemaker suggests. And tell him to read

> Mold Warriors and Desperate Medicine. He will have to do this before

> shoemaker will see him anyhow. Call and get a new patient packet

> from their office. There are A Lot of requirements to see

> Shoemaker. He is very expensive-- you are looking at close to $1000

> just to get your foot in the door. That includes all the bloodwork

> you are required to do and the $150 read your file fee, and the $75

> fee he has for msh research and stipends. You will also need to

> have dr. records from all your dr.'s from the last 5 yrs. Good luck

> and get on it because it takes a while to get in to him-- but I'm

> sure it is worth it. He can save lives!

>

> __._,_.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Do you know if insurance (PPO) pays for this?

I am sick and I am willing to fight them (the insurance co) to get it paid

for..

I recommend that you get insurance, nomatter how much it costs. There are so

many people now who lose everything because of one unplanned illness (thats

the way they put it in the papers, but honestly, how many illnesses ARE

'planned') and in fact most bankruptcies now are because a family member got

sick and then their family lost everything, job, then insurance then home

then future..

[Guest guest]

Here is one study that talks about (all kinds of) illness as a contributor

to bankruptcies...

http://www.demos.org/pubs/Harvard_MedDebtFeb05.pdf

Read it!

[Guest guest]

I am thinking they will tell you to call the insurance company yourself but try

calling his office and asking. If nothing else get the paperwork needed sent to

you about getting an office visit. Call (410) 957-1550. See if you can talk to

Debbie. Who I believe to be the office manager. Like I said, at least ask them

to send you the paperwork in order to prepare for an appointment. There is alot

of information in it. I don't have insurance so I cannot answer this question.

Hope that helps.

Chris...

Life is a balance of holding on and letting go...

Re: [] Re: Searching for doctors

Do you know if insurance (PPO) pays for this?

I am sick and I am willing to fight them (the insurance co) to get it paid

for..

I recommend that you get insurance, nomatter how much it costs. There are so

many people now who lose everything because of one unplanned illness (thats

the way they put it in the papers, but honestly, how many illnesses ARE

'planned') and in fact most bankruptcies now are because a family member got

sick and then their family lost everything, job, then insurance then home

then future..

[Guest guest]

Regarding gettting insurance even if it is

expensive: I fell into a gap period with no

insurance once,and due to the fact that I had

been on Xanax for a sleep problem I could not get

insurance that would cover doctor's visits,

prescriptions, testing, etc. no matter how much I

was willing to pay. I could only get catastophy

insurance/i.e. hospital insurance and that was

something like $450 a month or something absurd.

Since I had few assets at the time other than my

car, it wouldn't have been worth it. If you have

sizeable investment in a house, you could lose

that so you have to weigh the the amount of your

assets against the possible losses you would

have. Someone who has no assets, would be silly

to pay a large sum for health insurance. If you

are in an emergency situation health-wise and

have no assets, hospital must treat you. If you

are elderly and in good health, it would make

good sense to buy it even if expensive, etc.

It's not automatically a good thing to buy

regardless of price.

There are a number of otherwise low paying jobs

that should be fairly easy to get I think but in

exchange for low wages, you get group insurance

coverage. I know a number of people who work for

low hourly wage for group health insurance. Then

there is no preexisting condition clause that

applies to you in these cases I believe.

[Guest guest]

The one unexpected perk from moving to NM is the health insurance-NM is

basically a socialist state. One out of three are on public assistance-

They have a state run " Pool " for insurance-for BL Cross Bl Sh- they only

take into account your income- I am only paying $109 a month- with a

six month waiting for pre-existing- this is the least I have paid for

health insurance in 25 years. The local clinic also has a sliding scale

for payments. And I take therapy at the hospital once a week-totally

free! no paperwork or questions asked just said I was poor! not trying

to cause a run on New Mexico- but if you are thinking of re-locating

you might consider it. Property values are low- but allot of houses

(including mine) were damaged in the summer rains that were extremely

unusually strong. Thinking of starting a local awarness group- nobody

knows about mold.

-- In , bbw <barb1283@...> wrote:

>

> Regarding gettting insurance even if it is

> expensive: I fell into a gap period with no

> insurance once,and due to the fact that I had

> been on Xanax for a sleep problem I could not get

> insurance that would cover doctor's visits,

> prescriptions, testing, etc. no matter how much I

> was willing to pay. I could only get catastophy

> insurance/i.e. hospital insurance and that was

> something like $450 a month or something absurd.

> Since I had few assets at the time other than my

>

[Guest guest]

That is very good! So everyone has accessto health care. I'm sure that saves

a lot of money in the long run. Does this apply to everyone or just people

over a certain age or under a certain income?

In situations like that, I can't help but thinking that the potential for

doing something really positive has to exist there, like setting up some

kind of center that does research on mold illnesses and the best treatments

for them.

When i realized that 24% of all people had the potential to get mold

illness, the first thing I thought is that SO MANY HEALTH ISSUES are

probably related to mold but that the people suffering from them don't know

it.

Given what we know about what mold does to younger people, I think that one

of the most tragic things that is probably happening is that mold is

probably making a huge number of older people senile before they would be

getting senile if they were not eposed to mold. But since older people are

expected to get senile, I bet a lot of them just suffer and die without ever

knowing that some of their senility was avoidable and that some of them

might not even be senile at all..

Older people don't get fevers the way younger people do when they have

infections, so that probably masks the underlying issues.

In any case, there is a chapter in Mold Warriors that describes this

situation and I think that its not unreasonable to think that it is common..

How much do these HLA-DR tests cost? In my opinion, everyone should get one

if they can afford it.

On 11/19/06, carondeen <kdeanstudios@...> wrote:

>

> The one unexpected perk from moving to NM is the health insurance-NM is

> basically a socialist state. One out of three are on public assistance-

> They have a state run " Pool " for insurance-for BL Cross Bl Sh- they only

> take into account your income- I am only paying $109 a month- with a

> six month waiting for pre-existing- this is the least I have paid for

> health insurance in 25 years. The local clinic also has a sliding scale

> for payments. And I take therapy at the hospital once a week-totally

> free! no paperwork or questions asked just said I was poor! not trying

> to cause a run on New Mexico- but if you are thinking of re-locating

> you might consider it. Property values are low- but allot of houses

> (including mine) were damaged in the summer rains that were extremely

> unusually strong. Thinking of starting a local awarness group- nobody

> knows about mold.

> -- In <%40>,

> bbw <barb1283@...> wrote:

> >

> > Regarding gettting insurance even if it is

> > expensive: I fell into a gap period with no

> > insurance once,and due to the fact that I had

> > been on Xanax for a sleep problem I could not get

> > insurance that would cover doctor's visits,

> > prescriptions, testing, etc. no matter how much I

> > was willing to pay. I could only get catastophy

> > insurance/i.e. hospital insurance and that was

> > something like $450 a month or something absurd.

> > Since I had few assets at the time other than my

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The pool cost for insurance is based on your tax return, not assets-

do not know yet what testing costs -my Dr is still slogging his way

through Shoemaker stuff -he is a mold Dr in training- he wanted to

learn so I am pointing him in the right direction- if anyone has

links or papers he should read- send it to me- dont want to overwhelm

him, but think he should read something besides Mold Warriors a d

Desperation Med.

>

> That is very good! So everyone has accessto health care. I'm sure

that saves

> a lot of money in the long run. Does this apply to everyone or just

people

> over a certain age or under a certain income?

>

> In situations like that, I can't help but thinking that the

potential for

> doing something really positive has to exist there, like setting up

some

> kind of center that does research on mold illnesses and the best

treatments

> for them.

>

>