Re: Appropriate Antidepressant

[Guest guest]

Dear new friends,

Amitryptyline (Elavil) has long been known for its pain management ability.

It is an older antidepressant and relatively cheap to purchase. It can help

manage many problems.

I use it with my Reiters Syndrome to:

l. Helps to manage pain from my disease (arthritic). It is not a pain

reliever but seems to enhance the ability of the body to produce its own

pain reducing chemicals. For me, this means less pain relievers like

aspirin, NSAIDS, and tylenol.

2. Reduces the frequency and urgency feelings related to the inflamation of

my urinary tract, another part of my syndrome. Honestly, I don't know what

I'd do without it when I'm having urinary tract inflamation. I haven't

found anything else that works as well for this problem. Negative side

effect: reduced sex drive and ability to function sexually.

3. Normalizes sleep pattern. One of the biggest problems for those of us

with chronic pain is getting a good night's sleep. Though it seems to work

fairly well by itself, Amitryptyline combined with a sleeping pill like

Ambien (the astronaunts' sleeping pill) has really assisted me during

flare-up periods when I could not get sleep any other way. Neither of these

seems to be addicting for me. I can take them when I need them or stop

taking them without any problem. Check with your doc, for further

information.

Ray in Virginia

[Guest guest]

Moderator's note--

While message traffic on our list is a little laid back today, subscribers

are still coming on at a rapid pace. I would especially like to recognize

the considerable response we are getting from international subscribers,

welcome you & mention that if there is anything we can do to facilitate

international subscriptions, let me know at chronic_pain@....

Although this list originates in the USA, there are no geographical

restrictions intended. In fact, I expect to learn more from participants

abroad, since you get access to many drugs & treatments that seem to get

buried in our federal drug agency bureaucracy.

We have two posts on meds today-- one on amitrytriptaline (elavil) & one

on zoloft. As you will eventually all be reminded many times, I am what is

termed a classic non-responder: Enough medication to kill an elephant may

do nothing for me except side-effects. It took a lot of weeding out even to

find a pain-killer that works for me. I spent years on elavil with

horrendous side-effects, & as I later realized, no gain at all. Likewise

for zoloft. Now the chemistry lesson: These drugs, as do many others,

attempt to increase the blood level in your body of Seratonin, a drug that

makes us feel good & happy if its there in the right amount. The way they

do this however, is not to create the Seratonin, but cut down the body

re-absorbing it out of the bloodstream unnecessarily (thus the name anti

Seratonin re-uptake inhibitor). This is not exactly the case for

amitryptaline, but it is for most of the recent, sexy antidepressants.

I've been involved in research myself, & learned never to take anything at

face value. I am not aware of studies that confirm all of us actually make

an effective form of Seratonin for our own bodies. This is a little

speculative, but if our own Seratonin is not too effective in our own

bodies, capturing more of it may not be the answer for non-responders like me.

Interestingly, natural remedies seem to be out-stripping developments in

medicine in this area. First we rediscovered St's wart, which provides

the body with a natural material that gets turned into useful Seratonin if

you are lucky. This is a more simple approach than trying to improve the

body's efficiency in using what it has learned to discard. Beyond this, a

more direct substance called5-hydroxytryptophan occurring naturally in an

African seed & also easily cheaply made in the lab, appears *identical* to

the body's own Seratonin production chemistry. It is cheap and possibly

more direct & better than the Prozac/Stjohn's wort route. Curiously, my

body responds very well to this. Doesn't stop pain, but sure makes it a

happier experience.

It has been suggested to me that this chemical (5HTP for short) works

where others don't because I may have a genetic anomaly affecting my

Seratonin cycle (my body makes lousy Seratonin). I have not seen this

addressed at all in med lit, and it may be a significant factor for quite a

few others. There is a new book coming out by an MD who has studied 5HTP

extensively, and a summary chapter is up on the net at

http://www.raysahelian.com/5-htp.html .

A basic point I wanted to make here is that we vary very widely in

response to all medications, and one person's 'cure' can be quite literally

another's 'poison'

Ken Turbin

At 04:43 PM 5/3/98 +0000, you wrote:

>

>

>Dear new friends,

>

>Amitryptyline (Elavil) has long been known for its pain management ability.

>It is an older antidepressant and relatively cheap to purchase. It can help

>manage many problems.

>I use it with my Reiters Syndrome to:

>

>l. Helps to manage pain from my disease (arthritic). It is not a pain

>reliever but seems to enhance the ability of the body to produce its own

>pain reducing chemicals. For me, this means less pain relievers like

>aspirin, NSAIDS, and tylenol.

>2. Reduces the frequency and urgency feelings related to the inflamation of

>my urinary tract, another part of my syndrome. Honestly, I don't know what

>I'd do without it when I'm having urinary tract inflamation. I haven't

>found anything else that works as well for this problem. Negative side

>effect: reduced sex drive and ability to function sexually.

>3. Normalizes sleep pattern. One of the biggest problems for those of us

>with chronic pain is getting a good night's sleep. Though it seems to work

>fairly well by itself, Amitryptyline combined with a sleeping pill like

>Ambien (the astronaunts' sleeping pill) has really assisted me during

>flare-up periods when I could not get sleep any other way. Neither of these

>seems to be addicting for me. I can take them when I need them or stop

>taking them without any problem. Check with your doc, for further

>information.

>Ray in Virginia

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Moderator's note--

While message traffic on our list is a little laid back today, subscribers

are still coming on at a rapid pace. I would especially like to recognize

the considerable response we are getting from international subscribers,

welcome you & mention that if there is anything we can do to facilitate

international subscriptions, let me know at chronic_pain@....

Although this list originates in the USA, there are no geographical

restrictions intended. In fact, I expect to learn more from participants

abroad, since you get access to many drugs & treatments that seem to get

buried in our federal drug agency bureaucracy.

We have two posts on meds today-- one on amitrytriptaline (elavil) & one

on zoloft. As you will eventually all be reminded many times, I am what is

termed a classic non-responder: Enough medication to kill an elephant may

do nothing for me except side-effects. It took a lot of weeding out even to

find a pain-killer that works for me. I spent years on elavil with

horrendous side-effects, & as I later realized, no gain at all. Likewise

for zoloft. Now the chemistry lesson: These drugs, as do many others,

attempt to increase the blood level in your body of Seratonin, a drug that

makes us feel good & happy if its there in the right amount. The way they

do this however, is not to create the Seratonin, but cut down the body

re-absorbing it out of the bloodstream unnecessarily (thus the name anti

Seratonin re-uptake inhibitor). This is not exactly the case for

amitryptaline, but it is for most of the recent, sexy antidepressants.

I've been involved in research myself, & learned never to take anything at

face value. I am not aware of studies that confirm all of us actually make

an effective form of Seratonin for our own bodies. This is a little

speculative, but if our own Seratonin is not too effective in our own

bodies, capturing more of it may not be the answer for non-responders like me.

Interestingly, natural remedies seem to be out-stripping developments in

medicine in this area. First we rediscovered St's wart, which provides

the body with a natural material that gets turned into useful Seratonin if

you are lucky. This is a more simple approach than trying to improve the

body's efficiency in using what it has learned to discard. Beyond this, a

more direct substance called5-hydroxytryptophan occurring naturally in an

African seed & also easily cheaply made in the lab, appears *identical* to

the body's own Seratonin production chemistry. It is cheap and possibly

more direct & better than the Prozac/Stjohn's wort route. Curiously, my

body responds very well to this. Doesn't stop pain, but sure makes it a

happier experience.

It has been suggested to me that this chemical (5HTP for short) works

where others don't because I may have a genetic anomaly affecting my

Seratonin cycle (my body makes lousy Seratonin). I have not seen this

addressed at all in med lit, and it may be a significant factor for quite a

few others. There is a new book coming out by an MD who has studied 5HTP

extensively, and a summary chapter is up on the net at

http://www.raysahelian.com/5-htp.html .

A basic point I wanted to make here is that we vary very widely in

response to all medications, and one person's 'cure' can be quite literally

another's 'poison'

Ken Turbin

At 04:43 PM 5/3/98 +0000, you wrote:

>

>

>Dear new friends,

>

>Amitryptyline (Elavil) has long been known for its pain management ability.

>It is an older antidepressant and relatively cheap to purchase. It can help

>manage many problems.

>I use it with my Reiters Syndrome to:

>

>l. Helps to manage pain from my disease (arthritic). It is not a pain

>reliever but seems to enhance the ability of the body to produce its own

>pain reducing chemicals. For me, this means less pain relievers like

>aspirin, NSAIDS, and tylenol.

>2. Reduces the frequency and urgency feelings related to the inflamation of

>my urinary tract, another part of my syndrome. Honestly, I don't know what

>I'd do without it when I'm having urinary tract inflamation. I haven't

>found anything else that works as well for this problem. Negative side

>effect: reduced sex drive and ability to function sexually.

>3. Normalizes sleep pattern. One of the biggest problems for those of us

>with chronic pain is getting a good night's sleep. Though it seems to work

>fairly well by itself, Amitryptyline combined with a sleeping pill like

>Ambien (the astronaunts' sleeping pill) has really assisted me during

>flare-up periods when I could not get sleep any other way. Neither of these

>seems to be addicting for me. I can take them when I need them or stop

>taking them without any problem. Check with your doc, for further

>information.

>Ray in Virginia

>

>

>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Help ONElist keep this service free, while generating interest in your

>product or service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages.

>Visit http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.

>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

At one point, I was put in a psychiatric unit because my problems were 'all

in my head'. (It was finally discovered I had cancer) For the first time

I was given antidepressants. (this was almost 30 years ago)

They just made matters worse. The antidepressants depressed me even more.

Since then, when I finally got the courage to not listen to what doctors

said but what my body says, I have found that I have adverse and sometimes

opposite reactions to many perscription medications. (Have also developed

chemical sensitivity to food additives)

I have done a great deal of reading and trying, and now use natural

remedies almost exclusively. Although I am in almost constant pain, it is

nowhere near the level or complexity of most on this list.

Mentally - I had a real problem with my situation when I first became

disabled. (Secondary lymphedema - leg - from cancer surgery) I could not

adjust to the change in ability to earn a living, to accept financial help,

to have other people helping me. Many times I thought of suicide. But

there was one thing said to me, very infrequently, that kept me going. And

I believe it is something that I did not feel - but was, and is true. And

it applies, so very much more, to the people on this list. It is a simple

thing to say - but it is so very true. We are brave.

We continue because we are brave. It is so hard to see that in ourselves

- but it is there. Believe it because it is true. We are brave.

JonquilJan

'If all the world's a stage, I want better lighting.'

[Guest guest]

Ray -

Your last sentence is very true, " But, if others find they can function

better with such

medications, then I'm all for them having it. It is definitely a matter of

individual reactions and preferences. "

If it were not for my medication I could never function; not even on a

marginal basis. I think there are still so many new drugs in development

because everyone reacts differently to every drug. The medication you took

for your migraine, with the side-effects which made the drug unmanageable

for you, may actually be the only drug some other migraine sufferer can

handle.

Who knows - there may be something down the pike which will not only ease

your migraines, but keep them from erupting in the first place. Medicine

is not an exact science - It's all a guessing game, a jig-saw puzzle pieced

together by clues; the doctor's job strictly a process of elimination. I

do feel people in a lot of pain tend to " try anything, " however. It's the

nature of the beast we live with day in and day out which creates more than

its fair share of desperation in otherwise normal people.....

Peggy M.

At 01:18 AM 5/5/98 -0000, you wrote:

>

>

>,

>Thanks for your response (see below) to the issue of antidepressants for

>pain management. How true that our response to medication is a matter of

>and mind to escape from the pain. I'd rather be in pain and in control than