Re: Re: [WVThyroid] Bad memory

[Guest guest]

Hi, Topper,

Which

adrenal supplement are you taking and how did you determine the dose

necessary for you?

Dianne

At 10:30 AM 8/18/03 -0500, you wrote:

,

When I started on adrenal supplement I got pretty 'up' I got to feeling

so good that I over extended my physical limits and pretty much just wore

me out. I had to cut out the adrenal for a couple of months to recover.

But then I started up again, with a smaller amount. I'm glad I did. I'm

now up to three 1/4 tab doses a day and as soon as I get my next order in

(due tomorrow) I'll be increasing by another 1/4 tab. I'll stay there

until I get my labs done.

Having the adrenal supplement has done a lot, I believe, to let my own

adrenals rest. If something happens now that excites me or angers me I

actually react to it and when the situation is over I calm down again.

Before the adrenal supplement I didnt' get mad.. I just hid somewhere and

cried. Unable to face anything. My adrenal glands are able to produce

again when a situation requires it. I dont' have the level of

" mad " that I used to get.. that is why I want to go up another

1/4 tab for a while to see what happens... but don't see a need to go any

higher than that. I seem to be improving and have natural production of

adrenaline again, I am not in need of replacement... just supplementation

to encourage healing.

I've run across articles that explain that extended periods of hypo due

to undermedication or lack of medication cause the adrenal glands to

compensate. Because of all the extra load that they carry to cover for

the low thyroid, they get weaker and weaker over time. Eventually wearing

out and becoming non productive (that is 's disease, I believe)

and then you die.

If you have weak adrenals and add thyroid it further stresses the

adrenals, I dont' know why.. it almost seems the opposite of what it

should do.... So some folks go on thyroid and get bad reactions and blame

it on the meds when it's really the adrenals that did it.... then some

folks, like me, that are on thyroid and then add an adrenal supplement

get 'hyper' and over active physically, others get to feeling poorly....

and blame it on the adrenal supplement and quit. Just like I did. I'm

grateful that I found that article and started up the adrenal again, on a

lower dose... it's working for me.

Topper ()

http://toppertwo.tripod.com

[Guest guest]

The only way that the thyroid hormone should have ever been stopped in your grandmother is if she had a heart problem that precludes it. Even at that, sometimes the dosage is just cut back due to more complicated aging issues. I work in a nursing home, and it just kills me that sometimes these folks original diagnoses get "lost in the woodwork", when they have to change doctors. What makes anyone think that, just because you're growing old, you don't need your sanity anymore???? And I've studied some of the people at times, and wondered if it had been their WHOLE problem. In other words, maybe they could have been living a reasonably normal life, although having aging problems, and been at home with their families, instead of totally losing most mental functions. Yes, the trouble with "knows everything" is that nurses are taught by the "forces that be", and may not know any different. That licensing procedure seems to preclude everything else.

Re: Re: [WVThyroid] Bad memory

>>, do you take nutrients also, like the selenium, and do you know whether or not you might have an adrenal problem?<<

Right now I take DHEA only with my thyroid. In the past I have tried many things, selenium, Bvitamins, calcium, Adrenal supplement... The Adrenal supplement makes me feel hyper and have heart palps, the rest I never felt anything, good or bad with so when money got tight, I stopped using them. I may try selenium again now that I am making better money. I have never had my adrenals tested either. Funny, my grandmother has a hump on her shoulder that they don't have a clue what it is.. I wonder? When she was in her forties she was on thyroid, then they stopped giving it to her, now she suffers from dementia quite badly and I have wondered if her doctors really know what they are doing. Probably not, but my sister is a nurse and "knows everything" and takes care of her, and wouldn't listen to me anyway.

TMilton, WV Reply to valharley@...Education before vaccination www.catshots.com

[Guest guest]

>>That licensing procedure seems to preclude everything else.<<

Yes, even being civil to her sister.. LOL I think she's jealous as I never went to college but I make more money than she does when I am well! LOL

TMilton, WV Reply to valharley@...Education before vaccination www.catshots.com

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.509 / Virus Database: 306 - Release Date: 8/12/2003

[Guest guest]

Ruth

Carpel Tunnel----SYMPTOM OF THYROID DISEASE

Fibromyalgia-----I still say SYMPTOM OF--

If doctors would stop calling symptoms by the name of a disease, and instead call them symptoms like they really are, things could be so much simpler and not so devastating.

Re: Re: [WVThyroid] Bad memory

and Bobbi,

I can certainly sympothize with you. I am feeling better after years of feeling crappy--I thought I was losing my mind.

I went to numerous doctors but they all said I was normal since my TSH level was high-normal. I couldn't go anywhere and find my way home without extreme mental anguish. I had to make a menu and cook one thing at a time, checking off as I prepared it--many times not remembering how to prepare it.

My muscles were so weak I could not pick up a gallon of milk. My legs and arms hurt so bad I could not rest nor sleep. I was extemely exhausted and wanted to sleep but could not sleep and many days could not get out of bed. Unlike many, I was always hot (and am still sensitive to heat). My fingers would cramp and I could not use my computer or my sewing machine. I was told by one doctor I had carpal tunnel and would require surgery. I was also told that I had fibromyalgia. I was also told I was depressed and needed an antidepressant--- I know this sounds familiar.

I also had cold sweats in the middle of the night with horrible indigestion and felt faint to the point of laying on the bathroom floor for an hour before I could go back to bed. I thought I was having a heart attack and went to see a cardiologist. I found I had a valve problem but he said "your thyroid is screwed up -- your cholosterol and triglycerides are much too high and go see this internist."

Well, I finally increased my own medication (Synthroid) since I could not get an appoitment for two months and went to see the internist. I told him everything, showed him the chart of temps, symptoms etc I had made, and prepared my case with info from this site and books recommended on this site and prepared for battle. He was very sympothetic and has worked with me. He said he treated patients and not labs. I just went back and will go in this week for more labs.

I do take selenium, vitamin supplements, essential oils and acids and Thyrostart recommended by my local GNC store. It has given me energy and at last I am loosing some weight. It is made up of a variety of vitamins and herbs and is thyroid specific.

Good luck --be persistent and beyond all "educated" about yourself and your health.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

> Ruth Carpel Tunnel----SYMPTOM OF THYROID DISEASE Fibromyalgia-----I

>still say SYMPTOM OF-- If doctors would stop calling symptoms by the

>name of a disease, and instead call them symptoms like they really are,

>things could be so much simpler and not so devastating. >

If they did this, then there wouldn't be any need for thousands of

specialists, would there?

Bobbi C.

[Guest guest]

IAS is one of the online nonprescription pharmacies, no doctor's fee. This is one of the pharmacies listed on our site, on the left, in "links". It is one of many. At this time, I couldn't find the Armour anywhere else. T4 alone, in many brands, is available on many sites, nonprescription. Our FDA laws, since 1988, have allowed us to buy foreign pharmaceuticals that are prescription here in the States, as long as we aren't ordering more than a 90-day supply. Several countries offer this.

Re: Re: [WVThyroid] Bad memory

This IAS place, does it charge a Dr's fee or anything or do you have to have a Dr's script or do they just let you buy it without having to do anything else? Just curious in case I ever needed it and wasn't getting a Dr's help.

[Guest guest]

Agreed . Since my medication has leveled out some I no longer have "these diseases." I knew I did not and that they were symptoms of my hypothyroidism. My doctor agreed.

Ruth

Re: Re: [WVThyroid] Bad memory

Ruth

Carpel Tunnel----SYMPTOM OF THYROID DISEASE

Fibromyalgia-----I still say SYMPTOM OF--

If doctors would stop calling symptoms by the name of a disease, and instead call them symptoms like they really are, things could be so much simpler and not so devastating.

[Guest guest]

Yes, I'm thinking, because of the up-down syndrome thing, I'm going to divide my doses. I'm not sure how to adjust, though, because I'm a night worker (that's why I think I need the adrenal testing also). I've taken my T4 in the evening, ever since I started the graveyard shift. I worked the evening shift for about a year to try to correct this problem, but, even though I was getting 8 hrs sleep every night, I was so brain foggy in the morning, and would get even more so during the afternoons at work. Then, no matter what, I would "wake up" and become very sharp around 7:00 pm, about 3 hrs before I would leave work(this is not a good thing on your job, when you're taking care of people). Anyway, I just always took the T4 in the evening because of this night work thing. I have much clearer thinking at night.

Re: Re: [WVThyroid] Bad memory

Great to hear !

I have two lab ones in my area.. both about 20 miles from here.... Just a matter of coming up with the cash.

My Nutri-Meds order is due here tomorrow... More Adrenal and DHEA (enough to last until spring) I'm good on Thyroid for a while yet so I'm saving up for another big order. More cost effective to order several bottles at a time, saves on shipping and they give a price break on orders over $20.

A suggestion... if you are going to be splitting pills it would be wise to either get a pill splitter or a package of single edge razor blades, kitchen knives don't do a good job at all... I prefer razor blades myself. I sit down once every two weeks to split all my pills and set up my dosages. With all the stuff I take it's only about an hour in front of the TV and then I'm done.

Topper ()http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Thyroid_Support_Group/http://toppertwo.tripod.com

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:36:47 -0500 " " writes:

[Guest guest]

The "totals" do not give as accurate info as the "frees". Borderline-Smorderline----That T3 is low, whatever kind it is.

Re: Re: [WVThyroid] Bad memory

>>TSH 2.87 NORMAL .45 - 6.20>>T-3 28% NORMAL 30-45 (She said this was "borderline low")>>T-4 9.7 NORMAL 4.5-12Wait a minute! These normal ranges are NOWHERE near the ones I posted forthe lab that did my tests. What's the deal?Bobbi C.

[Guest guest]

,

Something to think about. Stuff that I've been reading is suggesting that those that get these surges of energy at night and are all groggy and foggy in the morning are folks with tired adrenal glands. What they say is that the glands are tired and under producing.. that it take the better part of the day for them to get into action and get enough adrenal into your system to get you going.

I kinda took that with a grain of salt.. can't believe everything you read. But I was ALWAYS a morning person, by best part of the day is like the first 4 or 5 hours. I'd jump out of bed, hit the shower, pull on clothes, grab breakfast and out the door to work during the week and on weekends off for weekly grocery shopping, out to the garden get all my chores done.. then the day was mine.

But the last 4 or 5 years... I was dragging out of bed hard time getting chores started.. on and on and on... I thought a lot of it had to do with my BF schedule he worked goofy night hours... but I've not been with him for nearly 4 years.... My body clock should have adjusted within months of being away from him and on a normal schedule.

That was another reason that I started the adrenal supplements.... Taking those during the day now I'm back to my normal schedule. Up in the morning, rarin' to get started on stuff and come night fall I'm ready for bed, not starting with an energy spurt and staying up all night just to be exhausted the next day from lack of sleep.

So... I'm wondering... If you were to take a small does of adrenal, timed with your schedule, would it also allow your system (adrenals) a bit of a rest and to help regulate your levels so that your body is not doing high and low dips during your waking/working time? Then, by splitting your T4 dose taking half before you go to work... and half about half way into your shift... it might even out that slump as well....

Maybe try splitting the T4 first.. see how that goes after a few weeks... and see if trying the other might be worth a shot.

.....just a thought.....

Topper ()http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Thyroid_Support_Group/http://toppertwo.tripod.com

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 22:41:51 -0500 " " writes:

Yes, I'm thinking, because of the up-down syndrome thing, I'm going to divide my doses. I'm not sure how to adjust, though, because I'm a night worker (that's why I think I need the adrenal testing also). I've taken my T4 in the evening, ever since I started the graveyard shift. I worked the evening shift for about a year to try to correct this problem, but, even though I was getting 8 hrs sleep every night, I was so brain foggy in the morning, and would get even more so during the afternoons at work. Then, no matter what, I would "wake up" and become very sharp around 7:00 pm, about 3 hrs before I would leave work(this is not a good thing on your job, when you're taking care of people). Anyway, I just always took the T4 in the evening because of this night work thing. I have much clearer thinking at night.

[Guest guest]

> Agreed . Since my medication has leveled out some I no longer

>have " these diseases. " I knew I did not and that they were symptoms of

>my hypothyroidism. My doctor agreed. Ruth>

Really? Wow, that's encouraging! So you had " fibromyalgia " , too?

What I wonder about is why doctors are so hot to prescribe other drugs

(like sleeping pills, or anti-depressants, etc.) for stuff like

fibromyalgia, yet they will not prescribe thyroid meds?

Stoopid doctors!

Bobbi C.

[Guest guest]

I don't know what the deal is w/ these. I can't believe their range goes so high into the 6's for TSH. I was diagnosed and started treatment at 5.51 and 5.89. Thank god that other Dr didn't go by this lab or I wouldn't have been able to start treatment. I couldn't keep that Dr. because our insurance changed and he wasn't on the HMO. (I hate HMO's)

Re: Re: [WVThyroid] Bad memory

>>TSH 2.87 NORMAL .45 - 6.20>>T-3 28% NORMAL 30-45 (She said this was "borderline low")>>T-4 9.7 NORMAL 4.5-12Wait a minute! These normal ranges are NOWHERE near the ones I posted forthe lab that did my tests. What's the deal?Bobbi C.

[Guest guest]

,

Yes, I agree and the other thing that frustrates me is that I asked the Dr. for 'free tests' and even asked again in the lab if it was a 'free' test of T-3 and T-4. The lab tech told me yes (just like the Dr. did), but she also said it tested for T-7 and some others that other tests don't test. ???????? I never knew T-7 existed.

In any case, after telling me I had free tests done, and later giving me the results, I was told by someone at the about.com site that these were not 'free' test results because they don't do percentages. So, I'm going back to the Dr. in a few weeks and we're going to talk, her and me....

Re: Re: [WVThyroid] Bad memory

>>TSH 2.87 NORMAL .45 - 6.20>>T-3 28% NORMAL 30-45 (She said this was "borderline low")>>T-4 9.7 NORMAL 4.5-12Wait a minute! These normal ranges are NOWHERE near the ones I posted forthe lab that did my tests. What's the deal?Bobbi C.

[Guest guest]

You're thinking my thoughts. Actually, I've really been listening and paying attention a lot every time you've brought this up. That's why the adrenal articles. I'm getting ready to test with this, along with the next thyroid tests. When the Armour gets here and while I'm making the transition, I'm going to split these doses, following your example. I've had more than a strong feeling for a couple of months now, by listening and reading, that this may be more of a problem than my thyroid, or connected. I believe that past emotional stresses, like severe domestic abuse (from years ago), then death of another I loved, divorce (like so many, I'm not singling myself out as in "poor me"), hysterectomy, other body changes, including thyroid disease, a long bout with bipolar disorder in the midst of all that-------all these things have to do with adrenal stress. Now, I'm a much more well-adjusted, calm person, but those two little things sitting on the kidneys just can't recover. I'm thinking they need a rest. You are taking the adrenal supplements from NutriMeds. What are they called on their site?

Re: Re: [WVThyroid] Bad memory

,

Something to think about. Stuff that I've been reading is suggesting that those that get these surges of energy at night and are all groggy and foggy in the morning are folks with tired adrenal glands. What they say is that the glands are tired and under producing.. that it take the better part of the day for them to get into action and get enough adrenal into your system to get you going.

I kinda took that with a grain of salt.. can't believe everything you read. But I was ALWAYS a morning person, by best part of the day is like the first 4 or 5 hours. I'd jump out of bed, hit the shower, pull on clothes, grab breakfast and out the door to work during the week and on weekends off for weekly grocery shopping, out to the garden get all my chores done.. then the day was mine.

But the last 4 or 5 years... I was dragging out of bed hard time getting chores started.. on and on and on... I thought a lot of it had to do with my BF schedule he worked goofy night hours... but I've not been with him for nearly 4 years.... My body clock should have adjusted within months of being away from him and on a normal schedule.

That was another reason that I started the adrenal supplements.... Taking those during the day now I'm back to my normal schedule. Up in the morning, rarin' to get started on stuff and come night fall I'm ready for bed, not starting with an energy spurt and staying up all night just to be exhausted the next day from lack of sleep.

So... I'm wondering... If you were to take a small does of adrenal, timed with your schedule, would it also allow your system (adrenals) a bit of a rest and to help regulate your levels so that your body is not doing high and low dips during your waking/working time? Then, by splitting your T4 dose taking half before you go to work... and half about half way into your shift... it might even out that slump as well....

Maybe try splitting the T4 first.. see how that goes after a few weeks... and see if trying the other might be worth a shot.

.....just a thought.....

Topper ()http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Thyroid_Support_Group/http://toppertwo.tripod.com

[Guest guest]

...

You have had a pretty good dose of stress.... time to help you body get over the physical damage by letting it rest and heal the sore parts!

They label the adrenal as Adrenal Bovine Whole Raw Dessiccate. 100 80 mg tabs to a bottle and the cost is $8.95.. just got my order today... They split easy and dont' taste too bad when tucked under the tongue. I sometimes goof on my times... I've had no problems tucking an adrenal and a thyroid under my tongue and the same time.

Becareful switching thyroid meds.. don't end up getting too much by goofing with math!

Topper ()

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:08:49 -0500 " " writes:

You're thinking my thoughts. Actually, I've really been listening and paying attention a lot every time you've brought this up. That's why the adrenal articles. I'm getting ready to test with this, along with the next thyroid tests. When the Armour gets here and while I'm making the transition, I'm going to split these doses, following your example. I've had more than a strong feeling for a couple of months now, by listening and reading, that this may be more of a problem than my thyroid, or connected. I believe that past emotional stresses, like severe domestic abuse (from years ago), then death of another I loved, divorce (like so many, I'm not singling myself out as in "poor me"), hysterectomy, other body changes, including thyroid disease, a long bout with bipolar disorder in the midst of all that-------all these things have to do with adrenal stress. Now, I'm a much more well-adjusted, calm person, but those two little things sitting on the kidneys just can't recover. I'm thinking they need a rest. You are taking the adrenal supplements from NutriMeds. What are they called on their site?

[Guest guest]

Thanks Topper----A few days before I start the Armour, I'm whacking my levoxyl in half, for the whole 24 hr period. Then, I'm going to quarter that, along with quartering 15 mg of Armour with each dose of that. I'm starting off very tiny on the Armour to see how it goes. I know that the half-life of the synthetic T4 is about a week or so, so that's why I'm cutting the 24 hr dose in half several days before. I know that the T3 in the Armour is short-lived over several hrs, so I'm going to spread them both out over the day (in my case, it may be the night). If I find a morning dose keeping me awake all morning long (day sleeper), then I'll cut that dose back, or add it to the one I take when I get up. I take selenium, but it keeps me wide awake, for some reason, so I'll have to watch that one right before sleeping, and I'm going to split that one also, plus the C and other vitamin supplements. The calcium I'll take before going to bed. Seems to me that I can only take vitamin supplements in small doses. I'll just pay attention to how I'm feeling, as I add on (tiny doses added on several weeks apart). At some point, I'm hoping to do away with the synthetic T4, depending on what my labs are going to say next time around. And I'm hoping to add on the adrenal supplements really soon. I'm very aware that it probably isn't going to take much less than a year to make these changes, depending on how it goes. And I know I'm still learning; may learn something entirely different about myself, who knows. I'm going to keep posted daily on this because, for me, it's pretty scary.

Re: Re: [WVThyroid] Bad memory

...

You have had a pretty good dose of stress.... time to help you body get over the physical damage by letting it rest and heal the sore parts!

They label the adrenal as Adrenal Bovine Whole Raw Dessiccate. 100 80 mg tabs to a bottle and the cost is $8.95.. just got my order today... They split easy and dont' taste too bad when tucked under the tongue. I sometimes goof on my times... I've had no problems tucking an adrenal and a thyroid under my tongue and the same time.

Becareful switching thyroid meds.. don't end up getting too much by goofing with math!

Topper ()

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:08:49 -0500 " " writes:

You're thinking my thoughts. Actually, I've really been listening and paying attention a lot every time you've brought this up. That's why the adrenal articles. I'm getting ready to test with this, along with the next thyroid tests. When the Armour gets here and while I'm making the transition, I'm going to split these doses, following your example. I've had more than a strong feeling for a couple of months now, by listening and reading, that this may be more of a problem than my thyroid, or connected. I believe that past emotional stresses, like severe domestic abuse (from years ago), then death of another I loved, divorce (like so many, I'm not singling myself out as in "poor me"), hysterectomy, other body changes, including thyroid disease, a long bout with bipolar disorder in the midst of all that-------all these things have to do with adrenal stress. Now, I'm a much more well-adjusted, calm person, but those two little things sitting on the kidneys just can't recover. I'm thinking they need a rest. You are taking the adrenal supplements from NutriMeds. What are they called on their site?