Re: was Bad memory now self-medicating

[Guest guest]

Bobbi,

Many are saying that Fibro is really just another set of symptoms that

stem off of thyroid disorder. That the term Fibro is often used just to

be able to give a set of symptoms a name when they can't figure anything

else out.

For me, self medicating, the idea of it, was pretty scary. But after

three years with no source for meds I decided that I would die if I did

nothing, so I had nothing to lose. But after 13 months of doing this on

my own. Keeping track of reactions, basal temp, resting heart rate, my

moods... How I'm feeling over all.... and the fact that I actually came

down with a virus! (I dont' get ill with colds and flu and such when I'm

hypo... I got myself well enough to get sick last month!)

I now think that this is one of the BEST things I've done for myself. I

had been hoping to be able to afford my labs this summer, my goal had

been the labs for my birthday the end of July, but the money was not

there. But I'm still seeing small improvements in myself. I seem to be

doing well. It's just a matter of common sense and some basic knowledge

and the helpfulness of the folks in this group and the others... I'm

doing better than I ever did with synthroid and an egotistical doc.

The key is to increase dosages in small amounts and waiting at least 5 or

6 weeks in between.. That allows your body to adjust and to show changes

that you can see.... much safer that way and easier on a stressed system

to boot.

I have a program that I use to help track a lot of this.. It's a

shareware - the free version of which covers everything I needed... I've

got the file over in the files section of mine and 's site if anyone

wants to check it out.. It's called Smart Diary. There is a little

graphing section that you can track moods, menstrual cycles and I also do

my temps and respirations there... Really handy.. and you can use the

diary part if you want, it's passworded to keep everything private.

Topper ()

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Thyroid_Support_Group/

http://toppertwo.tripod.com

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 21:10:18 -0500 Bobbi Chukran

writes:

> That's what I was wondering.........if many others on the list were

> self-medicating. It makes sense, given our experience with doctors

> who won't take our symptoms seriously.

>

> After the visit with the ENT guy tomorrow, I'm going to seriously

> ponder

> going the self-medication route. Nobody can find the reason for my

> symptoms, although some of them are blamed on fibromyalgia, but

> that

> doesn't explain all of them. They all agree that there's something

> wrong

> somewhere, which is better than being called a hypochondriac, I

> suppose.....But that doesn't help if I can't get treatment for them,

> does it?

>

> Bobbi C.

[Guest guest]

Bobbi,

Many are saying that Fibro is really just another set of symptoms that

stem off of thyroid disorder. That the term Fibro is often used just to

be able to give a set of symptoms a name when they can't figure anything

else out.

For me, self medicating, the idea of it, was pretty scary. But after

three years with no source for meds I decided that I would die if I did

nothing, so I had nothing to lose. But after 13 months of doing this on

my own. Keeping track of reactions, basal temp, resting heart rate, my

moods... How I'm feeling over all.... and the fact that I actually came

down with a virus! (I dont' get ill with colds and flu and such when I'm

hypo... I got myself well enough to get sick last month!)

I now think that this is one of the BEST things I've done for myself. I

had been hoping to be able to afford my labs this summer, my goal had

been the labs for my birthday the end of July, but the money was not

there. But I'm still seeing small improvements in myself. I seem to be

doing well. It's just a matter of common sense and some basic knowledge

and the helpfulness of the folks in this group and the others... I'm

doing better than I ever did with synthroid and an egotistical doc.

The key is to increase dosages in small amounts and waiting at least 5 or

6 weeks in between.. That allows your body to adjust and to show changes

that you can see.... much safer that way and easier on a stressed system

to boot.

I have a program that I use to help track a lot of this.. It's a

shareware - the free version of which covers everything I needed... I've

got the file over in the files section of mine and 's site if anyone

wants to check it out.. It's called Smart Diary. There is a little

graphing section that you can track moods, menstrual cycles and I also do

my temps and respirations there... Really handy.. and you can use the

diary part if you want, it's passworded to keep everything private.

Topper ()

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Thyroid_Support_Group/

http://toppertwo.tripod.com

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 21:10:18 -0500 Bobbi Chukran

writes:

> That's what I was wondering.........if many others on the list were

> self-medicating. It makes sense, given our experience with doctors

> who won't take our symptoms seriously.

>

> After the visit with the ENT guy tomorrow, I'm going to seriously

> ponder

> going the self-medication route. Nobody can find the reason for my

> symptoms, although some of them are blamed on fibromyalgia, but

> that

> doesn't explain all of them. They all agree that there's something

> wrong

> somewhere, which is better than being called a hypochondriac, I

> suppose.....But that doesn't help if I can't get treatment for them,

> does it?

>

> Bobbi C.

[Guest guest]

HEAR!!!!! HEAR!!!!!!!!!

After the visit with the ENT guy tomorrow, I'm going to seriously pondergoing the self-medication route. Nobody can find the reason for mysymptoms, although some of them are blamed on fibromyalgia, but thatdoesn't explain all of them. They all agree that there's something wrongsomewhere, which is better than being called a hypochondriac, Isuppose.....But that doesn't help if I can't get treatment for them, doesit?Bobbi C.

[Guest guest]

HEAR!!!!! HEAR!!!!!!!!!

After the visit with the ENT guy tomorrow, I'm going to seriously pondergoing the self-medication route. Nobody can find the reason for mysymptoms, although some of them are blamed on fibromyalgia, but thatdoesn't explain all of them. They all agree that there's something wrongsomewhere, which is better than being called a hypochondriac, Isuppose.....But that doesn't help if I can't get treatment for them, doesit?Bobbi C.

[Guest guest]

Hey Topper,

>Many are saying that Fibro is really just another set of symptoms that

>stem off of thyroid disorder. That the term Fibro is often used just to

>be able to give a set of symptoms a name when they can't figure anything

>else out.>>

Ah, well, I wouldn't be surprised! I actually did find a rheumatologist

who is serious about diagnosing FMS......thing is, there really isn't

anything he can do to treat it.........and to give him credit, he did do

all the thyroid tests, but of course, they came back " normal " .

> (I dont' get ill with colds and flu and such when I'm

>hypo... I got myself well enough to get sick last month!)>

Interesting! I don't get " sick " either.........

In general, I've taken my health into my own hands, so it just makes sense

for me to do this, too. I'm cautious, and would be careful. Thing is, I'm

very attuned to how my body feels, and when something changes, I know it.

If I felt worse, I wouldn't do it anymore.........simple as that.

>The key is to increase dosages in small amounts and waiting at least 5 or

>6 weeks in between..>

Okey dokey.

>I have a program that I use to help track a lot of this.. It's a

>shareware ->

Thanks; I'll check it out!

Bobbi C.

[Guest guest]

Believe me, if I had the money for umptymillion doctors or could fly around

to find one, I really would prefer it that way. But I don't, so I've

learned all I possibly can about this before I go to initiate a new

treatment on my own. Thyroid medicine of any kind does NOT have a wide

dosage range that you can play with. It has to be very precise, or you

could give yourself a heart problem, etc...not that you won't get a heart

problem if you go untreated or suboptimally treated. These meds do have a

very narrow dosage range, so you really need the labs to keep up with that.

I'm just happy that it's going to be the labs that I KNOW I should have

instead of leaving it in the hands of someone who doesn't seem to care about

me like me.

was Bad memory now self-medicating

> > , There are a few of us that are self-medicating, you're not

> >alone by any means. Just take it slow, take it easy and listen to your

> >body... If your not sure of something, just ask, someone is bound to

> >know, or can find out.... As soon as I have enoughtmoney for labs, I'll

> >be going to www.healthcheck.com check them out.. Topper >

>

> That's what I was wondering.........if many others on the list were

> self-medicating. It makes sense, given our experience with doctors who

> won't take our symptoms seriously.

>

> After the visit with the ENT guy tomorrow, I'm going to seriously ponder

> going the self-medication route. Nobody can find the reason for my

> symptoms, although some of them are blamed on fibromyalgia, but that

> doesn't explain all of them. They all agree that there's something wrong

> somewhere, which is better than being called a hypochondriac, I

> suppose.....But that doesn't help if I can't get treatment for them, does

> it?

>

> Bobbi C.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You know, I have a feeling that, after docs start taking these new

guidelines seriously, that a WHOLE lot of people who've been diagnosed with

fibromyalgia (if they get a new thyroid panel), will be diagnosed instead

with chronic untreated thyroid disease. How long has the term fibromyalgia

been around (fibrotic-muscle-pain)? Is it since the advent of the

all-too-familiar importance of the TSH test being in the " normal " range?

[Guest guest]

I have noticed since on the Armour I am more achy. I was just upped to a larger dose than I have ever taken and take it 2 x a day, but when I wake or sit I am worse than ever. That isn't my fibro?

Re: was Bad memory now self-medicating

Bobbi,Many are saying that Fibro is really just another set of symptoms thatstem off of thyroid disorder. That the term Fibro is often used just tobe able to give a set of symptoms a name when they can't figure anythingelse out.For me, self medicating, the idea of it, was pretty scary. But afterthree years with no source for meds I decided that I would die if I didnothing, so I had nothing to lose. But after 13 months of doing this onmy own. Keeping track of reactions, basal temp, resting heart rate, mymoods... How I'm feeling over all.... and the fact that I actually camedown with a virus! (I dont' get ill with colds and flu and such when I'mhypo... I got myself well enough to get sick last month!)I now think that this is one of the BEST things I've done for myself. Ihad been hoping to be able to afford my labs this summer, my goal hadbeen the labs for my birthday the end of July, but the money was notthere. But I'm still seeing small improvements in myself. I seem to bedoing well. It's just a matter of common sense and some basic knowledgeand the helpfulness of the folks in this group and the others... I'mdoing better than I ever did with synthroid and an egotistical doc.The key is to increase dosages in small amounts and waiting at least 5 or6 weeks in between.. That allows your body to adjust and to show changesthat you can see.... much safer that way and easier on a stressed systemto boot.I have a program that I use to help track a lot of this.. It's ashareware - the free version of which covers everything I needed... I'vegot the file over in the files section of mine and 's site if anyonewants to check it out.. It's called Smart Diary. There is a littlegraphing section that you can track moods, menstrual cycles and I also domy temps and respirations there... Really handy.. and you can use thediary part if you want, it's passworded to keep everything private.Topper ()http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Thyroid_Support_Group/http://toppertwo.tripod.comOn Sun, 17 Aug 2003 21:10:18 -0500 Bobbi Chukran writes:> That's what I was wondering.........if many others on the list were> self-medicating. It makes sense, given our experience with doctors > who won't take our symptoms seriously.> > After the visit with the ENT guy tomorrow, I'm going to seriously > ponder> going the self-medication route. Nobody can find the reason for my> symptoms, although some of them are blamed on fibromyalgia, but > that> doesn't explain all of them. They all agree that there's something > wrong> somewhere, which is better than being called a hypochondriac, I> suppose.....But that doesn't help if I can't get treatment for them, > does it?> > Bobbi C.

[Guest guest]

Bobbi,

Your doc said 'normal'... but normal according to their lovely little

charts.... Just because the numbers are within the ranges that they

specify doesn't mean squat..... With all the people here that have been

able to have labs and compare the numbers on those labs to how they feel

we have enough first hand research by people in the front trenches to

know that what docs consider 'normal' has nothing to do with treating the

disorder.

How many here have repeatedly said that they only time they feel anywhere

near good is when the TSH is VERY low, the T4 is in the mid range and the

T3 is in the high range....... yet that combination is just one

combination of what constitutes 'normal' by most docs.

I'm curious as heck to see what my labs would be now.. versus before I

started self medicating as well as all the labs that I've taken over the

years... I don't even know what the docs were testing. I knew nothing

about it then and was never shown the paper work.

Considering that I've found out that $ynthroid dosages for folks with no

working thyroid are based on weight and according to that I'd been

underdosed for 10 years - I'm betting whatever tests they did take all

showed me normal....

I've gone from being a truck driver as a profession / body builder as a

hobby to a factory worker to a sit down job computer operator to someone

that spends 14 hours a day sitting at a desk (at home) working on

computers because that's the limit of my physical ability. In the last

year I've gone from chronic all over body pain, severe insomnia, horrible

digestion and bowel problems, 10 times a day crying jags, open bleeding

itchy sores on my skin with no body hair and a tongue so swollen that I

couldn't close my mouth properly to someone that sleeps through most

nights, cries at the sad part of a movie or book and not just because a

bird flew by the window. I can eat and digest food normally now with

normal bowel movements - no more body purging diarrhea for a week

followed by constipation that had me thinking my guts would explode. I

can close my mouth and my teeth can actually touch. My skin is mostly

just itchy and I'm often able to relieve it with an application of hand

lotion to moisturize. My hair still needs some help, I'm still waiting

for my body to start adjusting my weight - hopefully downward. But

considering all that I've gone through and over how long a period, I

think my body has a accomplished a lot.

Now.. If I could do something about house rules here so that I could walk

around more, in short sessions to help my legs and back strengthen after

so much sitting, I'd be in pretty good shape.

I had a really great Endo and one time. We used to talk a lot about how I

was doing and feeling. She explained the 'sick' thing to me. She said

that many viruses and bacterial that effect humans have a pretty narrow

range for temps. If the body temp is too low they can't survive and if

the body temp is too high, they can't survive. That is why are bodies

produce fevers, elevating our body temps to a point that will kill off

virus and bacteria, but, hopefully, not kill us. That's why for all the

years that I was hypo, before I stormed, I never had so much as a

sniffle. Never missed a day of work from the time I got out of high

school until I got the RAI (except for a week that I had to take off when

I got poison ivy internally I was sprouting up blisters all over and

couldn't wear clothes. Looking back on that now... I'd been in poison ivy

several times as a kid and never had so much as an itch. But then got in

it during a period of time the Endo thinks I was hyper....severe allergic

reaction.... hmmmmmm). Any way, if the body temp is consistently too low,

as when we are severely hypo, the bugs can't live in us and we can't get

sick.

She did warn me about something, though. After going so many years with

not becoming ill it also means that when you finally do get sick it will

be a real shock to your body. All kinds of generations of colds and flus

and such have gone by that your body had not had exposure to and so had

not built up antibodies to fight it. So when you do get sick, it's gonna

be bad. She strongly suggested that no OTC cold/flu meds be taken, to

allow my body to fight the sick and develop a good strong set of

antibodies. That way my body would be able to prevent more illnesses

later. I believe she was right. I've gone through several stretches over

the years where I've been without insurance and meds and gone way hypo

and stopped getting sick. Then I get back on meds and pick something up

and it's a hum dinger! But after that.. colds are just colds like

everyone else....

Just as a example... I started out taking 1/4 of a tablet of the OTC. I

stayed at that dose for 6 weeks and then increased by another quarter

tab. One in the morning, one at night, 12 hours apart. After 6 weeks I

added another quarter tab. Now the doses were 6 hours apart... I

continued that way until I was up to a tab and a half a day. My body

wasn't so happy there and I went 12 weeks until the next dosage increase.

By the time I was up to 2 1/2 tabs a day my body wasn't so happy again,

this time I cut back to 2 1/4 tabs... that seemed about right..... Stayed

at that level until it looked like I'd have trouble getting money for

more meds and then cut back to 2 tabs per day, to stretch out my

supplies.

By taking things slow, allowing my body to adjust and listening to what

it was telling me.. I'm doing better. I'm feeling better. No brain fog,

no dozing off in a chair during the day. Sleeping through the night. No

waking in pain and staying that way all day. And I go to the bathroom

like a normal person. And that, to anyone that has dealt with a digestive

system that was all messed up, is a WONDROUS thing!

I can't say the self-medication is something that everyone should do. But

for me, considering I had no insurance and had been with little or no

meds for over three years, it was the very best thing for me to do. Now

that I have, now that I understand how it all works... I feel that I may

never go to see a doc about it again. I can order my own labs. I can

purchase meds on my own. And most of us here in the groups know WAY more

than most of the docs......

Topper ()

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Thyroid_Support_Group/

http://toppertwo.tripod.com

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 22:02:42 -0500 Bobbi Chukran

writes:

> Hey Topper,

>

> >Many are saying that Fibro is really just another set of symptoms

> that

> >stem off of thyroid disorder. That the term Fibro is often used

> just to

> >be able to give a set of symptoms a name when they can't figure

> anything

> >else out.>>

>

> Ah, well, I wouldn't be surprised! I actually did find a

> rheumatologist

> who is serious about diagnosing FMS......thing is, there really

> isn't

> anything he can do to treat it.........and to give him credit, he

> did do

> all the thyroid tests, but of course, they came back " normal " .

>

> > (I dont' get ill with colds and flu and such when I'm

> >hypo... I got myself well enough to get sick last month!)>

>

> Interesting! I don't get " sick " either.........

>

> In general, I've taken my health into my own hands, so it just makes

> sense

> for me to do this, too. I'm cautious, and would be careful. Thing

> is, I'm

> very attuned to how my body feels, and when something changes, I

> know it.

> If I felt worse, I wouldn't do it anymore.........simple as that.

>

> >The key is to increase dosages in small amounts and waiting at

> least 5 or

> >6 weeks in between..>

>

> Okey dokey.

>

> >I have a program that I use to help track a lot of this.. It's a

> >shareware ->

>

> Thanks; I'll check it out!

>

> Bobbi C.

[Guest guest]

I do agree with you there! That's why I took things as slowly as I did..

so that I could be aware of changes before levels built up in my body and

caused real problems.

After my RAI it took 6 months until all the hormone that was built up in

my body tissues was all used up and I bottomed out and they could start

treating me with meds. They couldn't' start giving me anything until they

were able to determine what the remaining level of thyroid activity was,

and it was determined that there was none.

It takes a long time for things to build up... it can take a long time,

with a slight overdose, to observe any symptoms of that over dose. Labs

are really important for seeing that stuff...

I keep watching out the window to see if any of those armored cars ever

lose a bag.. but so far no luck! hehehehehehe (hey, just as good a chance

of that happening as to win the lottery! hehehehehe)

Topper ()

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Thyroid_Support_Group/

http://toppertwo.tripod.com

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:49:02 -0500 " " writes:

> Believe me, if I had the money for umptymillion doctors or could fly

> around

> to find one, I really would prefer it that way. But I don't, so

> I've

> learned all I possibly can about this before I go to initiate a new

> treatment on my own. Thyroid medicine of any kind does NOT have a

> wide

> dosage range that you can play with. It has to be very precise, or

> you

> could give yourself a heart problem, etc...not that you won't get a

> heart

> problem if you go untreated or suboptimally treated. These meds do

> have a

> very narrow dosage range, so you really need the labs to keep up

> with that.

> I'm just happy that it's going to be the labs that I KNOW I should

> have

> instead of leaving it in the hands of someone who doesn't seem to

> care about

> me like me.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jamy,

Sometimes its from working your body harder than it's used to. I had a severe problem with that last winter as my dosages got higher and closer to optimal. I was feeling so good that I was overdoing things and wearing myself out... we're still slow to heal and I wasn't resting enough in between to recover. So it snow balled on me.... I finally started falling down.. My legs were just getting tired and letting go... down I went.

I now do most of my chores during commercials... Commercial comes on and I go like a raped ape getting work done. Commercial ends, go sit and work at something sitting down.. to rest. I gives me 15 minutes of active 'run around like an idiot getting things done' time out of every hour with time in between to rest my body.

I'm a sort that likes to just do stuff and finish. If you do that too much and your body poops out on you you're back to crashing in bed until you heal. Commercial chores work great for me. I can go like and idiot and get a lot done, but have to stop at the end of the commercial and go sit before I hurt myself..... I've gotten really good at setting things up to move back and forth between stand up and run around jobs to sit down jobs.

Takes a bit to rearrange the mind set.. but I'm back to doing a lot more stuff with a lot less pain and recovery time!

There is also something else that I've notice with morning wake up pain. For me it was mostly ribs, front and back, and my lower back. I found that if I spread out my doses so that my first one is taken when I get up and my last one is taken just as I go to bed. I dont' have waking pain any more. Remember, I'm the nut that doses 6 times a day... just about every 3 hours.

For getting up from sitting pain.. that, in me, is mostly my arthritis. The longer I sit without getting up and moving around the worse it is.... the same with sleeping in the morning.. I often have still elbows and knees.

I also had a bout of what seemed to be carpal tunnel in my right wrist. I'm right handed and at the keyboard most of the day, using a touchpad, not a mouse. It got to the point where I could not hold a glass of water to bring to my mouth to drink because it hurt so bad to turn my wrist to bring it to my lips. So I started getting really serious about the 30 minute breaks. Every thirty minutes, stop whatever the repetitive task you are doing is (for me, typing) and stretch. I even have a couple of programs that run on the computer to help you to remember to stop and to do your stretches.. they have pics on the screen that show you what to do... after doing it that way for several weeks... no pain at all... now I do my breaks every hour or hour and a half... as I think about it... most often when I stop to take a dose of pills....

These things seem to be working well for me.. maybe they'll give you some ideas for things that you can try for yourself.....

Topper ()http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Thyroid_Support_Group/http://toppertwo.tripod.com

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 06:04:00 -0700 "JAMY" writes:

I have noticed since on the Armour I am more achy. I was just upped to a larger dose than I have ever taken and take it 2 x a day, but when I wake or sit I am worse than ever. That isn't my fibro?

[Guest guest]

No, it is not from using the muscles. It is strange. I am back to doing nothing. Now it might be because I was on less t4 on the 30 mg of Armour than the 0.05 of Synthroid as well as I was already up to almost 3, but I haven't ached like this in a long time. I may since all my pills are 15mg. very tiny, take 1 upon waking, 1 at noon and one at 5 and see what that does. I have had eye surgeries and have no ability to see something that small even with glasses to split. So three it is. I am hoping the increase is not wigging out my adrenals.

Re: was Bad memory now self-medicating

Jamy,

Sometimes its from working your body harder than it's used to. I had a severe problem with that last winter as my dosages got higher and closer to optimal. I was feeling so good that I was overdoing things and wearing myself out... we're still slow to heal and I wasn't resting enough in between to recover. So it snow balled on me.... I finally started falling down.. My legs were just getting tired and letting go... down I went.

I now do most of my chores during commercials... Commercial comes on and I go like a raped ape getting work done. Commercial ends, go sit and work at something sitting down.. to rest. I gives me 15 minutes of active 'run around like an idiot getting things done' time out of every hour with time in between to rest my body.

I'm a sort that likes to just do stuff and finish. If you do that too much and your body poops out on you you're back to crashing in bed until you heal. Commercial chores work great for me. I can go like and idiot and get a lot done, but have to stop at the end of the commercial and go sit before I hurt myself..... I've gotten really good at setting things up to move back and forth between stand up and run around jobs to sit down jobs.

Takes a bit to rearrange the mind set.. but I'm back to doing a lot more stuff with a lot less pain and recovery time!

There is also something else that I've notice with morning wake up pain. For me it was mostly ribs, front and back, and my lower back. I found that if I spread out my doses so that my first one is taken when I get up and my last one is taken just as I go to bed. I dont' have waking pain any more. Remember, I'm the nut that doses 6 times a day... just about every 3 hours.

For getting up from sitting pain.. that, in me, is mostly my arthritis. The longer I sit without getting up and moving around the worse it is.... the same with sleeping in the morning.. I often have still elbows and knees.

I also had a bout of what seemed to be carpal tunnel in my right wrist. I'm right handed and at the keyboard most of the day, using a touchpad, not a mouse. It got to the point where I could not hold a glass of water to bring to my mouth to drink because it hurt so bad to turn my wrist to bring it to my lips. So I started getting really serious about the 30 minute breaks. Every thirty minutes, stop whatever the repetitive task you are doing is (for me, typing) and stretch. I even have a couple of programs that run on the computer to help you to remember to stop and to do your stretches.. they have pics on the screen that show you what to do... after doing it that way for several weeks... no pain at all... now I do my breaks every hour or hour and a half... as I think about it... most often when I stop to take a dose of pills....

These things seem to be working well for me.. maybe they'll give you some ideas for things that you can try for yourself.....

Topper ()http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Thyroid_Support_Group/http://toppertwo.tripod.com

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 06:04:00 -0700 "JAMY" writes:

I have noticed since on the Armour I am more achy. I was just upped to a larger dose than I have ever taken and take it 2 x a day, but when I wake or sit I am worse than ever. That isn't my fibro?

[Guest guest]

Jamy,

See how the three times a day dosing works... How are you with vitamins, potassium, C.... and water?

Topper ()

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:15:47 -0700 "JAMY" writes:

No, it is not from using the muscles. It is strange. I am back to doing nothing. Now it might be because I was on less t4 on the 30 mg of Armour than the 0.05 of Synthroid as well as I was already up to almost 3, but I haven't ached like this in a long time. I may since all my pills are 15mg. very tiny, take 1 upon waking, 1 at noon and one at 5 and see what that does. I have had eye surgeries and have no ability to see something that small even with glasses to split. So three it is. I am hoping the increase is not wigging out my adrenals.

[Guest guest]

I take a lot of vitamins, minerals and amino acids but all 4 hours or better after the AM dose.I will have to figure out how else to take them if I take thyroid 3x a day. I drink water all day, sipping! No sugar, no carbs, plenty of protein!

Re: was Bad memory now self-medicating

Jamy,

See how the three times a day dosing works... How are you with vitamins, potassium, C.... and water?

Topper ()

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:15:47 -0700 "JAMY" writes:

No, it is not from using the muscles. It is strange. I am back to doing nothing. Now it might be because I was on less t4 on the 30 mg of Armour than the 0.05 of Synthroid as well as I was already up to almost 3, but I haven't ached like this in a long time. I may since all my pills are 15mg. very tiny, take 1 upon waking, 1 at noon and one at 5 and see what that does. I have had eye surgeries and have no ability to see something that small even with glasses to split. So three it is. I am hoping the increase is not wigging out my adrenals.

[Guest guest]

Funny how, in a war, the commanding officer is dependent on knowing what's

going on by what the soldiers on the front lines tell him/her. Why isn't it

that way in medicine? A lot of the things we're discussing right now, if

you'll think about it (astounding), is groundbreaking news. If there were

only a way for us, as a huge group, to make it all available to the public,

instead of thru research, scientists, and doctors. The masses don't lie,

and the masses know that.

Re: was Bad memory now self-medicating

> Bobbi,

>

> Your doc said 'normal'... but normal according to their lovely little

> charts.... Just because the numbers are within the ranges that they

> specify doesn't mean squat..... With all the people here that have been

> able to have labs and compare the numbers on those labs to how they feel

> we have enough first hand research by people in the front trenches to

> know that what docs consider 'normal' has nothing to do with treating the

> disorder.

>

> How many here have repeatedly said that they only time they feel anywhere

> near good is when the TSH is VERY low, the T4 is in the mid range and the

> T3 is in the high range....... yet that combination is just one

> combination of what constitutes 'normal' by most docs.

>

> I'm curious as heck to see what my labs would be now.. versus before I

> started self medicating as well as all the labs that I've taken over the

> years... I don't even know what the docs were testing. I knew nothing

> about it then and was never shown the paper work.

>

> Considering that I've found out that $ynthroid dosages for folks with no

> working thyroid are based on weight and according to that I'd been

> underdosed for 10 years - I'm betting whatever tests they did take all

> showed me normal....

>

> I've gone from being a truck driver as a profession / body builder as a

> hobby to a factory worker to a sit down job computer operator to someone

> that spends 14 hours a day sitting at a desk (at home) working on

> computers because that's the limit of my physical ability. In the last

> year I've gone from chronic all over body pain, severe insomnia, horrible

> digestion and bowel problems, 10 times a day crying jags, open bleeding

> itchy sores on my skin with no body hair and a tongue so swollen that I

> couldn't close my mouth properly to someone that sleeps through most

> nights, cries at the sad part of a movie or book and not just because a

> bird flew by the window. I can eat and digest food normally now with

> normal bowel movements - no more body purging diarrhea for a week

> followed by constipation that had me thinking my guts would explode. I

> can close my mouth and my teeth can actually touch. My skin is mostly

> just itchy and I'm often able to relieve it with an application of hand

> lotion to moisturize. My hair still needs some help, I'm still waiting

> for my body to start adjusting my weight - hopefully downward. But

> considering all that I've gone through and over how long a period, I

> think my body has a accomplished a lot.

>

> Now.. If I could do something about house rules here so that I could walk

> around more, in short sessions to help my legs and back strengthen after

> so much sitting, I'd be in pretty good shape.

>

> I had a really great Endo and one time. We used to talk a lot about how I

> was doing and feeling. She explained the 'sick' thing to me. She said

> that many viruses and bacterial that effect humans have a pretty narrow

> range for temps. If the body temp is too low they can't survive and if

> the body temp is too high, they can't survive. That is why are bodies

> produce fevers, elevating our body temps to a point that will kill off

> virus and bacteria, but, hopefully, not kill us. That's why for all the

> years that I was hypo, before I stormed, I never had so much as a

> sniffle. Never missed a day of work from the time I got out of high

> school until I got the RAI (except for a week that I had to take off when

> I got poison ivy internally I was sprouting up blisters all over and

> couldn't wear clothes. Looking back on that now... I'd been in poison ivy

> several times as a kid and never had so much as an itch. But then got in

> it during a period of time the Endo thinks I was hyper....severe allergic

> reaction.... hmmmmmm). Any way, if the body temp is consistently too low,

> as when we are severely hypo, the bugs can't live in us and we can't get

> sick.

>

> She did warn me about something, though. After going so many years with

> not becoming ill it also means that when you finally do get sick it will

> be a real shock to your body. All kinds of generations of colds and flus

> and such have gone by that your body had not had exposure to and so had

> not built up antibodies to fight it. So when you do get sick, it's gonna

> be bad. She strongly suggested that no OTC cold/flu meds be taken, to

> allow my body to fight the sick and develop a good strong set of

> antibodies. That way my body would be able to prevent more illnesses

> later. I believe she was right. I've gone through several stretches over

> the years where I've been without insurance and meds and gone way hypo

> and stopped getting sick. Then I get back on meds and pick something up

> and it's a hum dinger! But after that.. colds are just colds like

> everyone else....

>

> Just as a example... I started out taking 1/4 of a tablet of the OTC. I

> stayed at that dose for 6 weeks and then increased by another quarter

> tab. One in the morning, one at night, 12 hours apart. After 6 weeks I

> added another quarter tab. Now the doses were 6 hours apart... I

> continued that way until I was up to a tab and a half a day. My body

> wasn't so happy there and I went 12 weeks until the next dosage increase.

> By the time I was up to 2 1/2 tabs a day my body wasn't so happy again,

> this time I cut back to 2 1/4 tabs... that seemed about right..... Stayed

> at that level until it looked like I'd have trouble getting money for

> more meds and then cut back to 2 tabs per day, to stretch out my

> supplies.

>

> By taking things slow, allowing my body to adjust and listening to what

> it was telling me.. I'm doing better. I'm feeling better. No brain fog,

> no dozing off in a chair during the day. Sleeping through the night. No

> waking in pain and staying that way all day. And I go to the bathroom

> like a normal person. And that, to anyone that has dealt with a digestive

> system that was all messed up, is a WONDROUS thing!

>

> I can't say the self-medication is something that everyone should do. But

> for me, considering I had no insurance and had been with little or no

> meds for over three years, it was the very best thing for me to do. Now

> that I have, now that I understand how it all works... I feel that I may

> never go to see a doc about it again. I can order my own labs. I can

> purchase meds on my own. And most of us here in the groups know WAY more

> than most of the docs......

>

> Topper ()

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Thyroid_Support_Group/

> http://toppertwo.tripod.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jamy,

My logic in figuring my timing.. taking the thyroid reduces/eliminates most of the absorption issues but I still keep the two major no no's for absorption to the end of the day (calcium and iron) My vitamins are chosen for no iron and lower dose of calcium to reduce that as an issue.

I take my calcium and iron supplements about an hour before bedtime... about an hour before my last dose. The thyroid is taken under the tongue... and the calcium and iron are swallowed, as are all other supplements except for adrenal.

Our bodies do something like 90 percent of the healing and repair work as we sleep. So, by taking the iron and calcium and other supplements before bedtime instead of early in the day.. all these things are actively in my system during sleep. Over night is the longest period of time that I go without thyroid dosing..... AND it's the longest period of time, for most of us, between emptying of the bladder. All these things will allow these supplements to remain in the blood stream at, I think, higher available levels for the body to utilize for healing, growth and repair of the body.

A reminder.. water soluable vitamins are lost through the same means as any liquid in our bodies, perspiration and urine being the top two. Most are actually filtered out of our blood stream in less than half an hour. No longer there for our body to make use of. Oil based vitamins as well as many minerals are not so easily disposed of by the body when in excess. So it's important that water solubles are taken in smaller doses more frequently for best use and that most minerals and oil based supplements be taken in adequate and not extreme doses to avoid build up in body tissues.

Oh, recently heard an interesting tidbit... Calcium... our bodies can only take 500 mg at a time. It has to do with the other components the body uses to utilize the calcium, there is only enough of it to process 500 mg at a time. If you are taking doses higher than that at one time the excess is not being used by the body. For those that are being told that they should be taking 1000 to 1500 mg of calcium a day by their docs..... take it in 500 mg doses several times a day to get the best results. But, remember, calcium is a thyroid absorption inhibitor so if you are swallowing your thyroid meds instead of taking them sublingually you will have to adjust the timing between your calcium and thyroid doses.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 18:26:32 -0700 "JAMY" writes:

I take a lot of vitamins, minerals and amino acids but all 4 hours or better after the AM dose.I will have to figure out how else to take them if I take thyroid 3x a day. I drink water all day, sipping! No sugar, no carbs, plenty of protein!

[Guest guest]

> If there were

>only a way for us, as a huge group, to make it all available to the public,

>instead of thru research, scientists, and doctors. The masses don't lie,

>and the masses know that.

>

Hi ,

The way for that to happen is for writers to get out there and write about

it! The BIG problem is, though, to get those writings published. There

are lots of books out there about the thyroid problem, but the only people

who read them are the ones like us who know we have a problem. I doubt if

doctors read them.....That First magazine article was a start, but wasn't

anyting really new as far as I'm concerned, and once again, doctors aren't

going to read that stuff.

Groups like this work pretty well, but other than renting billboards and

putting up signs, how do you get information to the public? Through

magazines, newspapers, books....

Bobbi C.

[Guest guest]

,

In a way.. that's what these groups are the start of.. as we all start to

compare notes and share out experiences we are finding out that we are

not crazy, that our observations are valid and worth sharing with

others..... We've taken the first step.

Topper ()

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Thyroid_Support_Group/

http://toppertwo.tripod.com

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:51:11 -0500 " " writes:

> Funny how, in a war, the commanding officer is dependent on knowing

> what's

> going on by what the soldiers on the front lines tell him/her. Why

> isn't it

> that way in medicine? A lot of the things we're discussing right

> now, if

> you'll think about it (astounding), is groundbreaking news. If

> there were

> only a way for us, as a huge group, to make it all available to the

> public,

> instead of thru research, scientists, and doctors. The masses don't

> lie,

> and the masses know that.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have been asked to do a series of articles on thyroid disease for a magazine.

Feisty

Webb Osterlohgroup co-owner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Thyroid_Support_Group/ATP Board Member,Thyroid Patient Advocatehttp://feistytx.tripod.com/

Re: was Bad memory now self-medicating

> If there were>only a way for us, as a huge group, to make it all available to the public,>instead of thru research, scientists, and doctors. The masses don't lie,>and the masses know that.>Hi ,The way for that to happen is for writers to get out there and write aboutit! The BIG problem is, though, to get those writings published. Thereare lots of books out there about the thyroid problem, but the only peoplewho read them are the ones like us who know we have a problem. I doubt ifdoctors read them.....That First magazine article was a start, but wasn'tanyting really new as far as I'm concerned, and once again, doctors aren'tgoing to read that stuff.Groups like this work pretty well, but other than renting billboards andputting up signs, how do you get information to the public? Throughmagazines, newspapers, books....Bobbi C.

[Guest guest]

> I have been asked to do a series of articles on thyroid disease for a

>magazine. Feisty >

Good for you! I'm a writer, also, and keep thinking that I need to get

busy and do something like that. Thing is, I'm a darned good researcher,

but I'm not a " health writer " , and most editors I've talked to want

specialized health writers to do things like this. I'm working on changing

my specialization, but it takes time to get known.......

Let us know when the articles come out!

Bobbi C.

[Guest guest]

,

Great idea... could you imagine 'average sized' cops trying to pick up

those of us with a decade of 'lazy fat' on us? (It's lazy fat because we

are all lazy and it has nothing to do with TD or lack of meds, improper

meds or underdosing, right?)

Then imagine hundreds of us in jail, sleeping 20 hours a day!

hehehehehehe

Volatile diarrhea from those that can't handle the food that they give

prisoners.

...sure would make a point! heheheheheh

Topper ()

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 06:06:17 -0500 " " writes:

> How about 5,000 or so of us getting together and hanging out with

> signs and

> demonstrations at the major medical centers around the world (laying

> down in

> the street, etc...with the cops hauling us off in paddy wagons)?!

> Seems to

> work for war demonstrations, etc...LOL!

>

>

[Guest guest]

OOOHHHHHHHH Thyrogeek! You are Wicked!

I love it!

Feisty

Re: was Bad memory now self-medicating

,Great idea... could you imagine 'average sized' cops trying to pick upthose of us with a decade of 'lazy fat' on us? (It's lazy fat because weare all lazy and it has nothing to do with TD or lack of meds, impropermeds or underdosing, right?)Then imagine hundreds of us in jail, sleeping 20 hours a day!heheheheheheVolatile diarrhea from those that can't handle the food that they giveprisoners...sure would make a point! hehehehehehTopper ()On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 06:06:17 -0500 " " writes:> How about 5,000 or so of us getting together and hanging out with > signs and> demonstrations at the major medical centers around the world (laying > down in> the street, etc...with the cops hauling us off in paddy wagons)?! > Seems to> work for war demonstrations, etc...LOL!> >

[Guest guest]

.......

Well, c'mon, it's true isn't it? The cops all macho and coming in pairs and picking up some pretty young thing that might weight 110 and then tossing her in the paddy wagon.. all the while flapping those night sticks in the air!

If I were to lay on the floor as dead weight... and a guy grabbed me by each of my arms and legs I don't think the four of them could get me across the street! Now, if I decided to protest and actually move... they'd all be in back braces!

Now.. picture four of us sitting on the ground. Back to back in a circle with our arms linked together..... They'd need a fork lift!

And our point... proper meds, proper care, a doc that treats patients by listening to them instead of the pharmaceutical companies and we'd be happy, healthy, and most likely average sized people.. just like everyone else.

Topper () aka ThyroGeekhttp://toppertwo.tripod.com

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 09:33:03 -0500 " Webb Osterloh" writes:

OOOHHHHHHHH Thyrogeek! You are Wicked!

I love it!

Feisty

[Guest guest]

Today is day one of dividing my dose of 45 mg into the three doses. My morning dose seems OK. I think my body likes the small morning dose instead of being slammed with all 30 mg since my adrenals are so weak!

Re: was Bad memory now self-medicating

Jamy,

My logic in figuring my timing.. taking the thyroid reduces/eliminates most of the absorption issues but I still keep the two major no no's for absorption to the end of the day (calcium and iron) My vitamins are chosen for no iron and lower dose of calcium to reduce that as an issue.

I take my calcium and iron supplements about an hour before bedtime... about an hour before my last dose. The thyroid is taken under the tongue... and the calcium and iron are swallowed, as are all other supplements except for adrenal.

Our bodies do something like 90 percent of the healing and repair work as we sleep. So, by taking the iron and calcium and other supplements before bedtime instead of early in the day.. all these things are actively in my system during sleep. Over night is the longest period of time that I go without thyroid dosing..... AND it's the longest period of time, for most of us, between emptying of the bladder. All these things will allow these supplements to remain in the blood stream at, I think, higher available levels for the body to utilize for healing, growth and repair of the body.

A reminder.. water soluable vitamins are lost through the same means as any liquid in our bodies, perspiration and urine being the top two. Most are actually filtered out of our blood stream in less than half an hour. No longer there for our body to make use of. Oil based vitamins as well as many minerals are not so easily disposed of by the body when in excess. So it's important that water solubles are taken in smaller doses more frequently for best use and that most minerals and oil based supplements be taken in adequate and not extreme doses to avoid build up in body tissues.

Oh, recently heard an interesting tidbit... Calcium... our bodies can only take 500 mg at a time. It has to do with the other components the body uses to utilize the calcium, there is only enough of it to process 500 mg at a time. If you are taking doses higher than that at one time the excess is not being used by the body. For those that are being told that they should be taking 1000 to 1500 mg of calcium a day by their docs..... take it in 500 mg doses several times a day to get the best results. But, remember, calcium is a thyroid absorption inhibitor so if you are swallowing your thyroid meds instead of taking them sublingually you will have to adjust the timing between your calcium and thyroid doses.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 18:26:32 -0700 "JAMY" writes:

[Guest guest]

>>Then imagine hundreds of us in jail, sleeping 20 hours a day!hehehehehehe<<

And how about them scrambling to get enough thyroid meds for us all??? LOL They HAVE to provide any medications you are on while incarcerated, so they would sure have alot to come up with! LOL

TMilton, WV Reply to valharley@...Education before vaccination www.catshots.com

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