Re: Ken's --- WAKE-UP CALL!!!

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike,

Your points are well taken. In your post you are actually talking about

how you have tried to bring someone up, not down. I believe we all have to

be dead honest about the " down " , but the real achievements are in bringing

each other & ourselves " up,' and in keeping the communication open no

matter how things are going.

I hope there will be a point where we are just comfortable with each other

to be able to talk about simple things, like how the day went, or

mother-in-law, without losing our focus on each other & helping ourselves.

I believe we all want to get better, we can get better, we need to, &

that's why we're here (I don't mean " cured, " although that would be OK too).

Ken

At 12:27 PM 8/16/98 -0400, you wrote:

>

>

>Hi List;

>

>Remember the saying " No news is good news " ? Could this list be subject to

this

>? The less the number of messages, the better we are doing. Perhaps we should

>strive for a list with NO messages, meaning by extension that everyone too

well

>to have a need for the list ?

>

>This brings to mind an arrangement I made with a very dear and trusted friend

>years ago. This man put himself and his resources many times at a

disadvantage

>to help me and my family out. I have done the same as often as possible to

help

>him out. I think we've paid each other back a few times and then some. We

keep

>tipping the scale one way then the other in the matter of who owes who. He is

>also suffering from chronic depression as am I. It got to the point that the

>only thing we talked about was depression. The problem was that if one of

us was

>feeling good, the other one would drag him back down. The arrangement we made

>was to NOT talk about it unless things were really bad enough that there

was no

>other way. We didn't define " bad enough " . His difficulties come from a

broken

>marriage which left him mortally wounded inside from what happened with the

>children, a rotten financial situation brought about by having something

to lose

>(unlike myself, I have nothing therefore I have nothing to lose),

rejection from

>insurance companies, health care, his doctors, his lawyers, his family. In

the

>10 or so years I've known him, I have never once heard this man say " Hey I

feel

>pretty good today " . I have said it on occasion, but I have never heard him

say

>it. I have tried to help by listening to him but that didn't do it. I have

>written computer programs for him when he mentioned an interest which

could turn

>into a business to help him get started, he was too depressed to go ahead

with

>it. I have contacted his family behind his back when I felt he was just too

>close to suicide. They thanked me for my concern but did nothing. I have

tried

>to find a way to help him financially by offering to represent him at

meetings

>with creditors trying to skin him alive but he never took me up on it. I paid

>for an email account for him so that he could still talk to the outside world

>and for him to get more of a taste for programming and perhaps find

something to

>do; nothing. I've tried reverse psychology on him to try to whip him into

>action, I got tears but no action. I haven't given up on him though. He

deserves

>more than this, I just haven't found the way to help him yet...but I will.

>

>Please don't get me wrong. What I did for him in many ways doesn't even come

>close to what I figure I owe the man. He has been the best of friends. Bigger

>than life itself. The moral of the story is that we never managed to really

> " help " each other out on the 'depression' level of our lives. I think that

this

>is perhaps a little bit like what is happening on the list. I realize the

>comparison is not equal, but I also contribute to some computer related

>newsgroups where people ask questions and describe problems they are having.

>Answers fly in and the problem is solved. On these lists, we have a common

>element in the software (like we have chronic pain), we have problems to

discuss

>(just like us), and we solve them (we don't because it doesn't work that

way).

>They have " closure " , we don't.

>

>Once I've described my feelings, my pain, my medication, and receive feed

back

>from the list, I am still where I started. There are no magic bullets. Herein

>lies the problem with the list (my opinion of course). I tell you I have a

pain,

>I get a number of responses stating the sender also has the same pain. I

mention

>I take certain meds, I get answers from people who take the same thing and

some

>from people taking alternative medication which I am too scared to try.

First,

>because I don't want to change from something that works for me albeit

poorly,

>second because I don't want to alienate my doctor.

>

>We must all ask ourselves " What do I want from this list ? " . By definition

>(chronic), we all suffer from long lasting discomfort in one form or another,

>the only newcomers will be people who have finally accepted that the

condition

>has been present a long time. We are all 'old hands' at it. There are no

" new "

>chronic pain patients. We have probably all gone through the same steps;

injury,

>pain, medical treatment (good and bad), non-acceptance of our condition,

search

>for alternative treatment, some form of misunderstanding of our condition

by our

>peers and/or our families, losing friends because we no longer " fit in " ,

trying

>to find others we can relate to, and so on. We are all the same in so many

ways.

>If there ever was a model to show that race, color, creed really doesn't

matter,

>this should be it !

>

>To some, just talking about it is a big relief. Others look for a " better "

way

>to deal with things, if there is one. Some need to " measure " their

situation by

>finding out how others feel or how severe they have it compared to

ourselves and

>we invariably come away from the experience with one of three feelings:

>1 -they're as bad as I am. 2 - they have it real bad and I'm glad my

situation

>isn't as bad or 3 - they don't know how good they have it compared to me.

>

>If you've read this far, good for you. If you're wondering where this is

going,

>take another valium and relax, I'm almost done !

>

>Here's my experience with the list. I joined when personal issues were being

>discussed, namely intimacy. I wrote my piece and sent it. Replies were

sent back

>and forth suggesting alternatives all of which were known or had been

tried. I

>got to the point I didn't want to talk about this anymore. I was afraid

some of

>my friends would perhaps join the list and find out how I feel (Namely my

buddy

>mentioned at the beginning). We then went on a binge of humour and teasing

name

>calling. Some had a great laugh, some just chuckled, others probably didn't

>care. I then started WWW 3 with Dr Donovan. When I realized my error, I

>attempted to understand the situation better and eventually made my

apologies.

>We talked ourselves into a " negotiated " peace.

>

>Now, what do I want from this list ? I've done my bitchin' and

complainin'. Some

>members have it as bad as I do, some are much worse and I admire their

courage

> I have a fear of choking to death and/or drowning and cannot imagine how

some

>of you must feel fighting for your breath every minute of every day), some

may

>have things better than me. So the bitchin' complainin', baring of soul and

>comparing are done. What's left for me ? I want to help. So simple isn't

it ? I

>want to help. I was never happier than when I went on the hunt to help

>find some possible employer candidates for his services, or when I made

others

>laugh by relating some humourous personal situations ( you can't laugh when

>you're in pain ) which means I made someone's pain go away for a few

seconds or

>minutes or finally, when teasing others and getting teased back. I want to

help.

>Or, to be more honest, I need to help. I've done all my self analysis and

came

>up short. Now I need to show my worth and to do this, I need to help someone

>achieve their goal, regardless how insignificant it may seem. Is this a new

>feeling for me ? Hell no. It goes back years. There is a rule to be observed

>though , a price for my services if you will: there is to be no public

>acknowledgement, no glory, no medals. A simple 'thank you' tells me I made a

>difference. The satisfaction I get is so much more that there are no

medals big

>enough to replace the feeling I get. I actually feel that as deals go, I'm

>ripping you off because I get so much more.

>

>How about making this list a little more into something we all hold dear:

like

>'now', 'today'. Every day is a challenge for most of us. But we don't

spend all

>day moaning, do we? We cook, we compute, we do house chores, we read, we

try to

>fix our cars. Why don't we talk about that more ? Some of us have made

tools to

>assist us in our quest for independence. Someone mentioned using padded

>knee-thingies to do gardening. That's living. Has anyone found a way to

undo a

>drain plug from a car's oil pan without bending down ? I have to change

the oil

>on the car but I can't reach the plug and I can't afford to pay someone

else to

>do it.

>

>What do I want from the list ? I want YOU all to make me feel great. How

can I

>help you ? Who's up to building a better mouse-trap ? Give me something to

sink

>my teeth into !

>

>Mike

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>