Re: 'Therapy' part Deux

[Guest guest]

Well, well Mike!

I think we have a person with major political talent here. Doing a Clinton

& taking 3 sides on a 2 sided issue, are you?

Nahhh, just kidding. And you haven't had those Presidential perks either!

Like so many other things in life, there probably really isn't any final

word on the value & quality of therapy, like so much else. It does mainly

come down to an ever-present difference among people. But there is one

giant difference. We invest power over ourselves in these people. Shouldn't

there be a mechanism for finding whether they are worthy of the investment

before damage is done? probably just not possible, I guess.

One clue can be the extent of their training & experience. Good training,

by my standards, should include post professional degree training in an

institute for psychotherapy, family therapy, or the like. and I don't mean

a few courses. A heritage left over from the Freudian era is the

post-graduate institute which not only teaches, but provides intensive

supervision and requires personal therapy, all for at least several years.

Apart from this, there are gifted people, and you generally know when you

find one. They are who the professionals themselves would see (hopefully).

The good professionals are those who hold the dignity of the patient in

highest regard. I just don't have a simple & quick test for this though.

Perhaps on indication is 'do they help you feel better about yourself &

bring more things into control.' If not, both of you are wasting time, &

you as patient may be getting damaged to boot.

Psychiatrists, despite sometimes under-training (surprisingly) are

generally a better choice for therapists, simply because they ordinarily

gain some humility & compassion from seeing as a matter of course people

with the worst possible problems. I would suggest asking any therapist

point blank about just how long their actual training in therapy is, and

how long their supervised practice has been, and just what exactly it

consisted of. If the questions are brushed off cursorily, its a clue to

find someone else! For many of the best therapist, supervision is

never-ending, because they seek it when needed to be more objective and

effectively problem-solve.

Anyway there's always the human factor, & I didn't expect to spend all

Father's day writing rhetoric on therapy.

Actually Mike, some of the things you are doing on the list are what a

good therapist might do (not all the things, of course).

Ken

Turbin

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[Guest guest]

Hi Ken;

Point (or rather points) well taken, although you may be overpricing

yourself at 3 cents (unless it's 3 cents canadian of course which would be

about 1.92 cents US!). Just kidding !

As is my nature, now that I've made valid points to the negative, now I'd

like to make some for the other side of the fence. There's a lot to be said

for being able to debate both sides of the same issue ! You can talk to

yourself and make sense all the time ! Who cares if others think you're nuts

?

One of the problems, as I see it, is that therapy (and therapists) is by

it's nature a by-product of medecine in general. Following through on this,

I mean that it is not an exact science. It is also terribly hard to define

compared to certain other occupations. For example; ask a toll-booth

operator was he does for a living. He'll answer that he collects money from

people to access a piece of highway, a bridge, whatever. Ask a baker...he

bakes bread and pastries. Easy, precise and accurate. Now ask a doctor or

therapist. In my view, the right answer would that they " try " to make people

better. If any of them claims emphatically that he/she " does " make people

better, ask them if it always works. Of course not, so they " try " to make

things better by adapting to each individual circumstance. Now, take this

part of the therapists work definition (taht they also try to make thigs

better) and apply it to the toll-booth operator, then the baker...they try

to collect money or try to bake bread...they just got fired!

Now, let's compound the problem a little. Let's assume we live in north

america (going out on a big limb here aren't I?). Let's throw in a few

social arguments. Let's assume that we are all individuals and different

from each other and that our needs are different; a big stretch. For a

bigger stretch, let's even assume that we " demand " to be treated as

individuals. Let's stretch some more and assume that you may have access to

a legal system where a person might be responsible for their actions. Let's

add to the mix an insurance company or compensation system whose main

purpose in life is to make money to support employees, locales, and all that

running a business entails. (Does any of this ring a bell?) Are any of these

things bad? In and of themselves, no. They provide employment, support

communities, and so on. In another sense, they also curtail your freedom...a

lot.

A wrong diagnosis (for a physician) or wrong treatment (for a therapist)

brings forth a law suit. Whether the therapist/physician wins or loses

doesn't matter. There are no winners. Legal expenses and time spent alone

make you a loser. Where is the incentive then to even suggest a course of

action or therapy or diagnosis where one lawsuit has the potential to

totally ruin your life, discredit you, oh! and take all your money away ? " A

love for the greater good, a love for your neighbour, to better humanity ? "

Try to eat that for breakfast.

OK, we have a valid medical diagnosis. We put in a claim for compensation.

The first thing you need to do is prove that the diagnosis is valid... by

their standards. Not by the medical profession's standard, that would be too

easy ( 7+ years at university is not enough). They send you to their own

doctor. Think a little bit, " their own doctor " . Who do you think pays in

part this person's wages? What is this person's biggest motivator? What are

the chances of his/her retaining his position if all of the results are in

support of the claimants ? There have been cases of companies hiring private

investigators that will sit outside your house waiting for you to show

something contrary to the description in your claim.

What a tangled web we weave. We got ourselves so screwed up, it's amazing

anything works ! Don't look anywhere else. WE ARE the culprit. We have made

demands for standards as well as for individual recognition (that makes a

lot of sense!). We have passed laws that decree that each child is entitled

to the same education but disabled children are to get different treatment ?

My brother, the lawyer, like to say that everyone is equal...some are just

more equal than others. Don't get me wrong, special people deserve special

consideration. But we cannot demand standards (by definition something that

fulfills everyone's needs) and special treatment at the same time. It's like

driving down the road and turning left right. You can't do both.

Does this all mean I am a pessimist? Have I lost faith in humanity? I don't

know, but I don't think so. I sort of sit there and thump myself in the head

thinking " boy, that was stupid " . I treat the whole thing like any other

mistake I've made in my life and try not to make it again. Past mistakes

have been made, what is passed cannot be undone so I don't try or even waste

time with it. I just try to do better in the future by voting for better

legislators, by making informed decisions.

Where does this leave my therapist? I'm not sure but I know what I would

like. My perfect therapist is one who sits down with me, has a vast

knowledge (as in an encyclopedia's worth) in multiple therapy techniques,

and asks me what " I " want. He/she then accepts my input and tailors the

therapy accordingly and not by a set of rules in a manual. Am I being fair?

Of course not. The other side of the coin is that this therapist (or doctor)

has to go to the bank or city hall and apply for assistance or permission to

start a business with an argument like " I'm going to ask people what they

want and then try to do it " . That's a good one! All I can say is thank

goodness there are still professionals there to help me at all. I would hate

to be in their shoes.

As for compensation organizations (private or government), I would love to

deal with an outfit that does not require me to totally give up my life to

my disability 24 hours a day. I receive a disability allowance from the

government. Under their rules, should I receive so much as an hour's worth

of money for work done, my allowance completely stops and my aid has to be

re-evaluated. I've been told it can take up to 3 months to get things

working regularly after that. I have made inquiries on this and have been

told in no uncertain terms by them (and I quote)that " the best policy is

don't work " . Do these idiots realize that there are days in a chronic pain

patients life when things are " not too bad " ? Do they realize that at times

we will do things that resemble what our former selves used to be just so we

can feel better about ourselves ? When a friend with a severe case of

fibromyalgia (sp?) recently asked me what the process was to receive a

disability allowance, I answered that she also had to mention that she was

now totally stupid and seriously mentally defficient as well as suffering

from an incurable disease or condition if she wanted to receive any

assistance.

The good physicians, therapists, nurses and educators out there in the real

world deserve more than we could ever do for them. What do I do about it?

Probably the same thing you do...

Mike

ps. read on, I've edited your message.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Turbin

> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 1998 9:26 AM

> I'm going to toss in my 3 cents on therapy here (3 cents

> rather than 2

> because I've been both a therapist & patient).

I haven't been a therapist but I have been patient on occasion !

> But most are limited in

> scope of what they can do, and severe problems are usually not

> what any but the most compassionate & experienced and * highly trained*

therapists can

> help with. That's just the way things seem to be.

I don't agree. That's the way we've " demanded " that they be. There is a

difference. It's like when businesses on TV state " The customer is king " . No

s__t Tarzan! It's called " the law of supply and demand " . We demand, you

supply. You don't supply, we leave and go elsewhere. You lose, go broke, and

we don't care. It is exactly the same with therapists, physicians,

educators, and so on. " We " dictate what they can or will do or not do. We

bear the responsability. To me " the way things seem to be " applies only to

the color of the sky, or the temperature, or the color of grass, or the

taste of Mc's fries (I feel a craving coming on). Not to the things we

dictate.

> Its one of the reasons I began this list; not because I'm

> impressed with my own talent,

Neither are we, at 3 cents worth, I'd would sincerely hope you're not

either! <gr>

> I still won't discount the truly good therapists out

> there, whose numbers are sadly limited.

hear hear ! I wholeheartedly agree.

> Turbin

> Web Development, Business Publication, & Marketing

> BizWize- A Free 'Ezine To Keep You On Top Of New BizOps &

> Strategies: Subscribe-biz@...

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> Email: kturbin@...

>