Re: selegiline = best theoretical choose of medication?

[Guest guest]

maybe you make a mistake with selegiline.

mao-b is not so rich transmitted in the brain as mao-a. it is more located in

glia cells.

http://www.neurology.org/content/46/5/1262.short

another thing:

dopamine agonists and also mao-b inhibitors DON'T enhance dopamine transmission

and I think that is a very important point. with activation of D2 receptors

these medizines decrease the transmission. and that could follow in a drop of

important second messangers.

the same with ssris and serotonin transmission.

I think a 5-HT2B / 5-HT2C receptor antagonist without any other affinity would

be an excellent drug for pssd. but such a drug don't exist. it would enhance

dopamine and norepinephrine transmission in some brain regions and with 5-HT2B

antagonism it would protect neurons against to much serotonin.

>

> After reading A LOT about SSRI's, MDMA, neurotransmitters, toxic damage, etc

etc

> I think selegilline is the best choice medication there exist for PSSD.

>

> Let me explain:

> SSRI's cause neurodegeneration of serotonin axons. This is possibly duo to the

excess serotonin that is in the synapses is beïng oxidized by MAO's. This

creates free radicals that attack serotonin axons (NOT THE NEURONS). The strange

thing is that most people don't get PSSD. According to one source, 1/2 of people

taking an SSRI have sexual dysfunction, and 1/4th still has a form of sexual

dysfunction AFTER quitting the SSRI. How do we explain that?

> It's possible that people who don't get PSSD might have a stronger serotonin

system. Meaning more reserve (of axons, receptors, ..) Or that there brain

adapts at a more clever way, meaning down regulation of enzymes that create

serotonin. Or that we have more MAO's then other people. Or we have some

anti-oxidants diëficiëncy. Some people here believe that it's a (long term) down

regulation of 5HT-receptors.

>

> Annyhow, I don't believe that it's a down regulation, as it would be an

instant fix by giving medicines that increase serotonin (SSRI's, MAOI's). Like

an heroïn addict functions normally with methadone, or people who've quitted

benzo's a long time ago, still suffering from problems, are immediately fixd by

taking another benzo. Smokers feel normal if they smoke,..

>

> That would be too easy. Some people recover from PSSD. Choices are:

> 1) They didn't have PSSD.

> 2) They did recover and there brain has fixed itself.

>

> How can the brain fix itself?

> 1) The leftover serotonin axons produce more serotonin.

> 2) The leftover serotonin axons sprout.

> 3) New serotonin axons grow (this has been seen in monkeys injected with MDMA

2x daily for 4 days at 10mg/kg) These monkeys were so anhedonic, they didn't

even eat, they had to be forced).

> 4) They had depression/anxiety disorder at the moment and when this disorder

is fixed, offcorse they are sexually more active.

>

> Annyhow, all this in mind, Selegiline, a MAO-B inhibitor, gives an increase

in dopamine of 40 to 70%. It is neuroprotective, meaning it prevents the

dopamine system from degeneration. If people take MDMA and selegiline, they are

completely protected from the damage done to the serotonin system. Selegiline

side effects are increased libido, euphoria and because it enhances dopamine

transmission, it increases testosterone as well, suppressing prolactin. So my

point here is, leave the serotonin system alone, let it heal, in the mean time

take something on dopamine, that is not damaging (like ritalin), to increase

libido and hedonia, Maybe a combination of dopamine agonists and selegiline (I

can't see what they could possibly do wrong).

>

> Comments?

>

[Guest guest]

Intersting article about MAO-B. I always thought that every dopamine-neuron

contained MAO-B (and MAO-A as it is equally metabolized by both). I don't want a

MAO-A as I don't want to boost serotonin. But this is all very confusing for me,

I think you know a whole lot more than I do, as I know nothing about glial

cells..

What I'm confused about is that selegiline doesn't enhance dopamine

transmission. It definitely increases the amount of usable dopamine. This is

good I think. It helps in PD, so it must increase dopamine. D2 receptor

activation is associated with pleasure. (lots of anti-psychotics are D2 receptor

antagonists).

As far as 5-HT2C I think you are right, causing increases in

dopamine/norepinephrine..

The 5-HT2B receptor is used in regulation of the SERT gene. This is very

interesting.

Wish I knew more about it.

> >

> > After reading A LOT about SSRI's, MDMA, neurotransmitters, toxic damage, etc

etc

> > I think selegilline is the best choice medication there exist for PSSD.

> >

> > Let me explain:

> > SSRI's cause neurodegeneration of serotonin axons. This is possibly duo to

the excess serotonin that is in the synapses is beïng oxidized by MAO's. This

creates free radicals that attack serotonin axons (NOT THE NEURONS). The strange

thing is that most people don't get PSSD. According to one source, 1/2 of people

taking an SSRI have sexual dysfunction, and 1/4th still has a form of sexual

dysfunction AFTER quitting the SSRI. How do we explain that?

> > It's possible that people who don't get PSSD might have a stronger serotonin

system. Meaning more reserve (of axons, receptors, ..) Or that there brain

adapts at a more clever way, meaning down regulation of enzymes that create

serotonin. Or that we have more MAO's then other people. Or we have some

anti-oxidants diëficiëncy. Some people here believe that it's a (long term) down

regulation of 5HT-receptors.

> >

> > Annyhow, I don't believe that it's a down regulation, as it would be an

instant fix by giving medicines that increase serotonin (SSRI's, MAOI's). Like

an heroïn addict functions normally with methadone, or people who've quitted

benzo's a long time ago, still suffering from problems, are immediately fixd by

taking another benzo. Smokers feel normal if they smoke,..

> >

> > That would be too easy. Some people recover from PSSD. Choices are:

> > 1) They didn't have PSSD.

> > 2) They did recover and there brain has fixed itself.

> >

> > How can the brain fix itself?

> > 1) The leftover serotonin axons produce more serotonin.

> > 2) The leftover serotonin axons sprout.

> > 3) New serotonin axons grow (this has been seen in monkeys injected with

MDMA 2x daily for 4 days at 10mg/kg) These monkeys were so anhedonic, they

didn't even eat, they had to be forced).

> > 4) They had depression/anxiety disorder at the moment and when this disorder

is fixed, offcorse they are sexually more active.

> >

> > Annyhow, all this in mind, Selegiline, a MAO-B inhibitor, gives an increase

in dopamine of 40 to 70%. It is neuroprotective, meaning it prevents the

dopamine system from degeneration. If people take MDMA and selegiline, they are

completely protected from the damage done to the serotonin system. Selegiline

side effects are increased libido, euphoria and because it enhances dopamine

transmission, it increases testosterone as well, suppressing prolactin. So my

point here is, leave the serotonin system alone, let it heal, in the mean time

take something on dopamine, that is not damaging (like ritalin), to increase

libido and hedonia, Maybe a combination of dopamine agonists and selegiline (I

can't see what they could possibly do wrong).

> >

> > Comments?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

transmission means the OUTPUT of dopamine. it is right that mao-inhibitor

enhance the concnetration of dopamine but NOT the transmission.

and that could be a big diffenrence in different drugs. if one increses the

output and the other increases the concentration via mao-inhibition (or

dat-inhibition) the result in dopamine levels may be the same. but the hole

thing is more than only one neurotransmitter and the effect of both can be very

different.

> > >

> > > After reading A LOT about SSRI's, MDMA, neurotransmitters, toxic damage,

etc etc

> > > I think selegilline is the best choice medication there exist for PSSD.

> > >

> > > Let me explain:

> > > SSRI's cause neurodegeneration of serotonin axons. This is possibly duo to

the excess serotonin that is in the synapses is beïng oxidized by MAO's. This

creates free radicals that attack serotonin axons (NOT THE NEURONS). The strange

thing is that most people don't get PSSD. According to one source, 1/2 of people

taking an SSRI have sexual dysfunction, and 1/4th still has a form of sexual

dysfunction AFTER quitting the SSRI. How do we explain that?

> > > It's possible that people who don't get PSSD might have a stronger

serotonin system. Meaning more reserve (of axons, receptors, ..) Or that there

brain adapts at a more clever way, meaning down regulation of enzymes that

create serotonin. Or that we have more MAO's then other people. Or we have some

anti-oxidants diëficiëncy. Some people here believe that it's a (long term) down

regulation of 5HT-receptors.

> > >

> > > Annyhow, I don't believe that it's a down regulation, as it would be an

instant fix by giving medicines that increase serotonin (SSRI's, MAOI's). Like

an heroïn addict functions normally with methadone, or people who've quitted

benzo's a long time ago, still suffering from problems, are immediately fixd by

taking another benzo. Smokers feel normal if they smoke,..

> > >

> > > That would be too easy. Some people recover from PSSD. Choices are:

> > > 1) They didn't have PSSD.

> > > 2) They did recover and there brain has fixed itself.

> > >

> > > How can the brain fix itself?

> > > 1) The leftover serotonin axons produce more serotonin.

> > > 2) The leftover serotonin axons sprout.

> > > 3) New serotonin axons grow (this has been seen in monkeys injected with

MDMA 2x daily for 4 days at 10mg/kg) These monkeys were so anhedonic, they

didn't even eat, they had to be forced).

> > > 4) They had depression/anxiety disorder at the moment and when this

disorder is fixed, offcorse they are sexually more active.

> > >

> > > Annyhow, all this in mind, Selegiline, a MAO-B inhibitor, gives an

increase in dopamine of 40 to 70%. It is neuroprotective, meaning it prevents

the dopamine system from degeneration. If people take MDMA and selegiline, they

are completely protected from the damage done to the serotonin system.

Selegiline side effects are increased libido, euphoria and because it enhances

dopamine transmission, it increases testosterone as well, suppressing prolactin.

So my point here is, leave the serotonin system alone, let it heal, in the mean

time take something on dopamine, that is not damaging (like ritalin), to

increase libido and hedonia, Maybe a combination of dopamine agonists and

selegiline (I can't see what they could possibly do wrong).

> > >

> > > Comments?

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I can follow what you're saying. And you're theory to enhance dopamine OUTPUT by

inhibiting 5HT-2C. But with MAO/DAT inhibition, eventually the output should

increase, as the auto receptors desynthesize duo to overstimulation. Then the

neuron then thinks it is not outputting enough dopamine. This is the same theory

as with SSRI's (but sucks that post-synaptic receptors, like 5HT-1A eventually

also desythesizes). But the difference is (I THINK) between MAO inhibition or

reuptake inhibition is that MAO inhibition ain't toxic, as reuptake inhibition

is (oxidized monoamines). People on moclobemide (MAO-A inhibitor) don't have

sexual dysfunction, but do have a comparable anti-depressant effect. The

increase in serotonin is (according to me) not responsible for the sexual

dysfunction, but the toxicity is.

For example: people on XTC want to have sex. I am an example of it, I tried it

(with PSSD) and my libido went true the roof. But it didn't enhance the erection

part :/

All that I want to know is will selegiline damage more stuff, or won't it? It

will sure cause some desynthesation, but this should be reversed after quitting.

I really need some dopamine as I'm completely anhedonic :/

> > > >

> > > > After reading A LOT about SSRI's, MDMA, neurotransmitters, toxic damage,

etc etc

> > > > I think selegilline is the best choice medication there exist for PSSD.

> > > >

> > > > Let me explain:

> > > > SSRI's cause neurodegeneration of serotonin axons. This is possibly duo

to the excess serotonin that is in the synapses is beïng oxidized by MAO's. This

creates free radicals that attack serotonin axons (NOT THE NEURONS). The strange

thing is that most people don't get PSSD. According to one source, 1/2 of people

taking an SSRI have sexual dysfunction, and 1/4th still has a form of sexual

dysfunction AFTER quitting the SSRI. How do we explain that?

> > > > It's possible that people who don't get PSSD might have a stronger

serotonin system. Meaning more reserve (of axons, receptors, ..) Or that there

brain adapts at a more clever way, meaning down regulation of enzymes that

create serotonin. Or that we have more MAO's then other people. Or we have some

anti-oxidants diëficiëncy. Some people here believe that it's a (long term) down

regulation of 5HT-receptors.

> > > >

> > > > Annyhow, I don't believe that it's a down regulation, as it would be an

instant fix by giving medicines that increase serotonin (SSRI's, MAOI's). Like

an heroïn addict functions normally with methadone, or people who've quitted

benzo's a long time ago, still suffering from problems, are immediately fixd by

taking another benzo. Smokers feel normal if they smoke,..

> > > >

> > > > That would be too easy. Some people recover from PSSD. Choices are:

> > > > 1) They didn't have PSSD.

> > > > 2) They did recover and there brain has fixed itself.

> > > >

> > > > How can the brain fix itself?

> > > > 1) The leftover serotonin axons produce more serotonin.

> > > > 2) The leftover serotonin axons sprout.

> > > > 3) New serotonin axons grow (this has been seen in monkeys injected with

MDMA 2x daily for 4 days at 10mg/kg) These monkeys were so anhedonic, they

didn't even eat, they had to be forced).

> > > > 4) They had depression/anxiety disorder at the moment and when this

disorder is fixed, offcorse they are sexually more active.

> > > >

> > > > Annyhow, all this in mind, Selegiline, a MAO-B inhibitor, gives an

increase in dopamine of 40 to 70%. It is neuroprotective, meaning it prevents

the dopamine system from degeneration. If people take MDMA and selegiline, they

are completely protected from the damage done to the serotonin system.

Selegiline side effects are increased libido, euphoria and because it enhances

dopamine transmission, it increases testosterone as well, suppressing prolactin.

So my point here is, leave the serotonin system alone, let it heal, in the mean

time take something on dopamine, that is not damaging (like ritalin), to

increase libido and hedonia, Maybe a combination of dopamine agonists and

selegiline (I can't see what they could possibly do wrong).

> > > >

> > > > Comments?

> > > >

> > >

> >

>