RE: Help with systemic yeast.... what am I missing????

[Guest guest]

I PMd you also Robin, but I would add biotin--I always use it w candida--for both mom and baby. I suggest Custom Probiotics for both mom and baby--may need to go slow and use pascalite to mediate the die-off. Topically, I start with coconut oil,, but will move to silver hydrsol spray and calendula oil after that if needed. I suggest only AVC rather than distilled vinegar which is pretty much dead--ACV is more effective. I would stop the nystatin--it contains sugar and feeds the yeast. I will use baking soda for a couple of days in the baby's mouth to deal with the thrush--1 tsp: 1 cup water and swab after feedings--I don't use it for longer though.

Tow, IBCLC, USA & France

Intuitive Parenting Network, LLC

-Help with systemic yeast.... what am I missing????

Posted by: "Robin"

robinkaplan1@...

robin.kaplan

Sun Apr 8, 2012 9:00 am (PDT)

Hi ladies,

Permission to post....

I have a client with what I think is systemic yeast that I could really use your help with. I am including all of the things she has tried over the past 2 weeks. The nystatin was prescribed by the Ped, not me, obviously. Here's what's happening:

Mom/baby have both been using Nystatin since 3/27/12 4 times per day rub 1ml on her tongue & inside cheeks & place a few drops on her nipples after breast feeding

Baby gets 5 drops of BioGaia orally 1 time per day

Mom takes 2 capsules femadopholis orally 2x daily on an empty stomach AM & PM and also takes 1 enteric garlic pill orally 1 time per day with food

-

we have been adding the yin care mouth recommended per acupuncturist to the nystatin orally for Baby 1 x daily

Mom has been sprinkling the powder of femadopholis on top of her nipples after the nystatin after every feeding

Mom has been sanitizing breast shields & all pump parts, syringes & tubing from finger feeds in equal parts distilled vinegar & distilled water then boiling them for 10 min after each use

Mom also just started adding 1/2 cup distilled vinegar to all laundry of Baby's & her nursing bras in the wash.

Mom also eliminated sugars,already was gluten free, & eliminated all dairy on Wednesday evening.

Baby had tongue clipped at 4days and has seen Cranio. Baby is pulling off the breast screaming after 5-10 mins. There is yeast all over her tongue, roof of her mouth, and cheeks.

Mom is complaining of contantly burning nipples.

What am I missing????

Thank you so much for any advice that you have!

Warmly,

Robin Kaplan, M.Ed., IBCLC

San Diego Breastfeeding Center

[Guest guest]

I agree with June, BioGaia is so limited (and contains trace dairy). I do like strains like Saccromyches Boulardii for really resistant yeast for mom and baby and apple cider vingar 10%/water 90% swabs for mouths and nipples plus homeopathic borax (NOT LAUNDRY borax!!). Was the tongue adequately released? Does mom also have vasospasm? I usually find there is more than just systemic yeast going on. What I usually see is that tongue restriction is making it so that baby can’t self-clean tongue and it further abrading the nipples, allowing yeast to set in plus dietary triggers and co-infections (bacterial) and vasospasms are complicating the picture. Hopefully you’ll be able to strip away the layers of the puzzle so that Bf comfort and overall wellbring can be realized!! Poor mom and baby! Cole

[Guest guest]

Agreed. Nystatin is pretty useless, IMO (and IME). A stronger systemic anti-fungal is needed (if it really is systemic Candida). Diflucan, garlic capsules (more than 1 per day!), GSE, monolauric acid, caprylic acid, etc. (taken orally, optimally in rotation) will help kill candida. (Personally, I’ve used 10-undecenoic acid with great success, but there is no data on its safety during lactation.) She should go all out in trying to kill these buggers. If it’s a systemic infection, she should notice “die-off” reactions once the antifungals are working—headaches, flu-like symptoms, really bad gas, etc. Also, she should keep at it for weeks to allow the gut a chance to heal, not just once she sees signs that the oral thrush is abating. She can also try a low-carb diet to help. She can just google “candida diet” and learn about a variety of approaches to dietary modifications to control yeast. It’s no fun! But if she is persistent, she can overcome it. I know it’s controversial, but gentian violent *is* very effective against topical yeast and can be considered as part of a regimen to get rid of stubborn thrush. Just keep it in mind, if nothing else is working. PeirceThrive Lactation Serviceswww.thrivelactation.com

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[Guest guest]

Could also be that baby is allergic to something in the Nystatin preparation or

to the nystatin itself, which, according the the Bfdg Atlas, is not uncommon.

Baby and mom may also have a bacterial infection (see The Breastfeeding Atlas).

Mom may want to get that checked (cultures done of milk, nipples and baby's

mucosa). 's approach covers them all.

Good luck to the mama!

Celina D, IBCLC, LLLL

>

> I PMd you also Robin, but I would add biotin--I always use it w candida--for

both mom and baby. I suggest Custom Probiotics for both mom and baby--may need

to go slow and use pascalite to mediate the die-off. Topically, I start with

coconut oil,, but will move to silver hydrsol spray and calendula oil after that

if needed. I suggest only AVC rather than distilled vinegar which is pretty much

dead--ACV is more effective. I would stop the nystatin--it contains sugar and

feeds the yeast. I will use baking soda for a couple of days in the baby's mouth

to deal with the thrush--1 tsp: 1 cup water and swab after feedings--I don't use

it for longer though.

>

>

> Tow, IBCLC, USA & France

> Intuitive Parenting Network, LLC

>

>

>

> -Help with systemic yeast.... what am I missing????

>

>

>

> Posted by: " Robin " robinkaplan1@...

robin.kaplan

>

> Sun Apr 8, 2012 9:00 am (PDT)

>

>

>

> Hi ladies,

>

> Permission to post....

>

> I have a client with what I think is systemic yeast that I could really use

your help with. I am including all of the things she has tried over the past 2

weeks. The nystatin was prescribed by the Ped, not me, obviously. Here's what's

happening:

>

> Mom/baby have both been using Nystatin since 3/27/12 4 times per day rub 1ml

on her tongue & inside cheeks & place a few drops on her nipples after breast

feeding

>

> Baby gets 5 drops of BioGaia orally 1 time per day

>

> Mom takes 2 capsules femadopholis orally 2x daily on an empty stomach AM & PM

and also takes 1 enteric garlic pill orally 1 time per day with food

> -

> we have been adding the yin care mouth recommended per acupuncturist to the

nystatin orally for Baby 1 x daily

>

> Mom has been sprinkling the powder of femadopholis on top of her nipples after

the nystatin after every feeding

>

> Mom has been sanitizing breast shields & all pump parts, syringes & tubing

from finger feeds in equal parts distilled vinegar & distilled water then

boiling them for 10 min after each use

>

> Mom also just started adding 1/2 cup distilled vinegar to all laundry of

Baby's & her nursing bras in the wash.

>

> Mom also eliminated sugars,already was gluten free, & eliminated all dairy on

Wednesday evening.

>

> Baby had tongue clipped at 4days and has seen Cranio. Baby is pulling off the

breast screaming after 5-10 mins. There is yeast all over her tongue, roof of

her mouth, and cheeks.

>

> Mom is complaining of contantly burning nipples.

>

> What am I missing????

>

> Thank you so much for any advice that you have!

>

> Warmly,

> Robin Kaplan, M.Ed., IBCLC

> San Diego Breastfeeding Center

>