Guest guest Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 In a message dated 12/17/02 5:04:12, lipodystrophy writes: Have you dissected people with ARV-related central adiposity or looked at lipoma tissues? Some research I've read says that it IS brown fat or that at least there is a higher percentage than normal. I have certainly seen lipomas from people with HAART, and they are just the same old fat as anywhere. , if there was all this "brown fat" around viscera, it would have had articles printed in major pathology journals. I haven't seen or heard of one, and this is surprising. I can't promise you that there isn't an increase in brown fat, but it seems to me that the claim is being made with little evidence to support it. This is troubling, as it would be so easy to demonstrate. JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 In a message dated 12/17/02 5:04:12, lipodystrophy writes: Thank you, , for helping me make my point, which is that no one, regardless of individual brilliance is in a position to make such apodictic (absolute, incontestible) statements that are based on personal observation or experience without consulting the recent research literature. Bob, I don't think I have made such a statment. I said that "visceral fat" and "brown fat" are not synonymous terms. This is true. I have also said that it would be so easy to show that HAART lipodystrophy fat is brown fat, that it is a bit astonishing to see this said in so many places, with so little evidence. Even the article cited above does not say this. As a pathologist, let me tell you that "features of" a given thing does not make it that thing. Quite the opposite. Pathology language is designed not to commit to a finding unless it is unequivocably present. My personal suspicion is that the increased density and fibrous nature of fat deposits in lipodystrophy may have more with the nature of the sites of fat distribution (especially in the neck and skin of the upper back) and the destruction of fat cells by whatever process and associated "scarring." This is just a guess. All I am saying is that, yes, much of my personal experience argues against this being brown fat, and, if it is brown fat, it should be very easy to demonstrate. If someone does this, I'll be quite happy to accept this, but in the meantime, it doesn't make sense to me, admittedly on a "gut level." JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 All I am saying is that, yes, much of my personal experience argues against this being brown fat, and, if it is brown fat, it should be very easy to demonstrate. If someone does this, I'll be quite happy to accept this, but in the meantime, it doesn't make sense to me, admittedly on a "gut level." JB JB, Thanks for the further explanation. After reading more of the research, including Bob Munk's reference, I'm left more baffled than ever. Brown fat that appears and disappears, has no fixed location, is sometimes visible and sometimes invisible. I can't see how it accounts for the humps and lumps. I think I'd rather believe in Harvey, at least until it reveals itself to our wondering eyes in all it's glory. As I think I've said before, even when I don't immediately agree, I always appreciate your scepticism. It sometimes seems to me that the journals are not immune to the media hype and haste to get into print or video that has infected the more popular media. Bob E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 Postscript. I've just (I think) gone to the daily digest. It sometimes seems to me that no random thought goes unpublished/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2002 Report Share Posted December 17, 2002 At 08:54 AM 12/17/2002 -0500, you wrote: snip... >I have certainly seen lipomas from people with HAART, and they are just >the same old fat as anywhere. That's good to know. >, if there was all this " brown fat " around viscera, it would have >had articles printed in major pathology journals. I haven't seen or heard >of one, and this is surprising. > >I can't promise you that there isn't an increase in brown fat, but it >seems to me that the claim is being made with little evidence to support >it. This is troubling, as it would be so easy to demonstrate. OK. I have seen some abstracts in other conferences suggesting that there is a mix of brown fat in there. Not that it is all brown--probably mostly white I'd guess--but that the amount is higher than one would expect in an adult. I'll keep my ears/eyes open and share what I find out either way. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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