Guest guest Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 i totally disagree with the disproportion thing. I think it's more what's happening INSIDE the mouth that's a problem. and sounds like she's got a tight jaw. She may need some PT or OT or CST to help her loosen up. she may have jaw asymmetry as well. lots of stuff could be causing the trouble... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comwww.facebook.com/thesecond9months.--- On Thu, 1/12/12, Eden wrote:Subject: case studyTo: Date: Thursday, January 12, 2012, 12:40 PM I have permission to post asking about a client I saw today. 5th baby, age 2.5 days, previous three siblings nursed with no problem. Latched alright for a 12 hour period around 12-24 hours old. Now that milk is in, can't seem to latch on. I saw them this afternoon and the baby has a small mouth and mom has large nipples. Healthy full term newborn. She appears to have been a tongue-sucker in utero. Sucks well on a pinky finger, but does not open wide to latch onto the finger (or breast) but rather slurps on and smacks on her tongue as well. She has a relatively small mouth and a tight/strong suck. At breast she mouths, attempts to latch and does one suck, then freezes when the nipple doesn't glide back to the 'sweet' spot' to stimulate an organized suck. Then cries of course, but is a good sport and keeps trying. I recommended: skin to skin, laid back position and side lying (mom was leaning forward trying to stuff her nipple in baby's mouth), reverse pressure softening and nipple stimulation to help give baby something to grasp, sucking on mom or dad's finger before attempting to nurse, putting some pressure/weight on the hand to help relax and drop the jaw, and massage of tmj joint. What other suggestions do you give mothers dealing with "oroboobular disproportion" (who made up that term) ? She is expressing and we syringe fed the baby 22 ml while latched onto mom's finger but that is too exhausting to keep up for long. This is a committed bf mother. Her milk is transitioning and she is full but not painfully engorged. Thanks wise women!-- Eden, BA, IBCLC, RLCLactation ConsultantAtlanta Breastfeeding Consultants, LLCwww.AtlantaBreastfeedingConsultants.com (404)-590-MILK (6455) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Thanks . I did ask about whether they used chiropractic. Sadly, I don't have a clear referral (yet- working on it) for bodywork/ot/pt/chiropractic. I was hoping she would say she had a family chiropractor that also worked with infants, but no such luck of course. I didn't notice any asymmetry in my exam, but it's a possibility.- Eden, BA, IBCLC, RLCLactation ConsultantAtlanta Breastfeeding Consultants, LLCwww.AtlantaBreastfeedingConsultants.com (404)-590-MILK (6455) i totally disagree with the disproportion thing. I think it's more what's happening INSIDE the mouth that's a problem. and sounds like she's got a tight jaw. She may need some PT or OT or CST to help her loosen up. she may have jaw asymmetry as well. lots of stuff could be causing the trouble... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.com www.facebook.com/thesecond9months. Subject: case studyTo: Date: Thursday, January 12, 2012, 12:40 PM I have permission to post asking about a client I saw today. 5th baby, age 2.5 days, previous three siblings nursed with no problem. Latched alright for a 12 hour period around 12-24 hours old. Now that milk is in, can't seem to latch on. I saw them this afternoon and the baby has a small mouth and mom has large nipples. Healthy full term newborn. She appears to have been a tongue-sucker in utero. Sucks well on a pinky finger, but does not open wide to latch onto the finger (or breast) but rather slurps on and smacks on her tongue as well. She has a relatively small mouth and a tight/strong suck. At breast she mouths, attempts to latch and does one suck, then freezes when the nipple doesn't glide back to the 'sweet' spot' to stimulate an organized suck. Then cries of course, but is a good sport and keeps trying. I recommended: skin to skin, laid back position and side lying (mom was leaning forward trying to stuff her nipple in baby's mouth), reverse pressure softening and nipple stimulation to help give baby something to grasp, sucking on mom or dad's finger before attempting to nurse, putting some pressure/weight on the hand to help relax and drop the jaw, and massage of tmj joint. What other suggestions do you give mothers dealing with " oroboobular disproportion " (who made up that term) ? She is expressing and we syringe fed the baby 22 ml while latched onto mom's finger but that is too exhausting to keep up for long. This is a committed bf mother. Her milk is transitioning and she is full but not painfully engorged. Thanks wise women!-- Eden, BA, IBCLC, RLCLactation ConsultantAtlanta Breastfeeding Consultants, LLCwww.AtlantaBreastfeedingConsultants.com (404)-590-MILK (6455) -- Eden, BA, IBCLC, RLCLactation ConsultantAtlanta Breastfeeding Consultants, LLCwww.AtlantaBreastfeedingConsultants.com (404)-590-MILK (6455) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I was going to suggest the dancer hand hold. It might stabilize the jaw enough so baby doesn't have to work so hard latching. Worth trying. I've had some success with babies using this hold if they have trouble nursing. Heinz, BA IBCLCBeach Babies Lactation Support, LLC Sender: Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 13:25:18 -0800 (PST)To: < >ReplyTo: Subject: Re: case study i totally disagree with the disproportion thing. I think it's more what's happening INSIDE the mouth that's a problem. and sounds like she's got a tight jaw. She may need some PT or OT or CST to help her loosen up. she may have jaw asymmetry as well. lots of stuff could be causing the trouble... Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comwww.facebook.com/thesecond9months.--- Subject: case studyTo: Date: Thursday, January 12, 2012, 12:40 PM I have permission to post asking about a client I saw today. 5th baby, age 2.5 days, previous three siblings nursed with no problem. Latched alright for a 12 hour period around 12-24 hours old. Now that milk is in, can't seem to latch on. I saw them this afternoon and the baby has a small mouth and mom has large nipples. Healthy full term newborn. She appears to have been a tongue-sucker in utero. Sucks well on a pinky finger, but does not open wide to latch onto the finger (or breast) but rather slurps on and smacks on her tongue as well. She has a relatively small mouth and a tight/strong suck. At breast she mouths, attempts to latch and does one suck, then freezes when the nipple doesn't glide back to the 'sweet' spot' to stimulate an organized suck. Then cries of course, but is a good sport and keeps trying.I recommended: skin to skin, laid back position and side lying (mom was leaning forward trying to stuff her nipple in baby's mouth), reverse pressure softening and nipple stimulation to help give baby something to grasp, sucking on mom or dad's finger before attempting to nurse, putting some pressure/weight on the hand to help relax and drop the jaw, and massage of tmj joint. What other suggestions do you give mothers dealing with "oroboobular disproportion" (who made up that term) ? She is expressing and we syringe fed the baby 22 ml while latched onto mom's finger but that is too exhausting to keep up for long. This is a committed bf mother. Her milk is transitioning and she is full but not painfully engorged.Thanks wise women!-- Eden, BA, IBCLC, RLCLactation ConsultantAtlanta Breastfeeding Consultants, LLCwww.AtlantaBreastfeedingConsultants.com(404)-590-MILK (6455) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 , what was baby’s birth like? What I’m finding is that a “really strong suck” is a red flag. I tend to see it with babies where something is going on structurally or there have been interventions during birth (or sometimes it may also be due to very quick delivery, long pushing stage or unusual position in utero). Warmly,Fleur Bickford BSc., RN, IBCLCOttawa, Ontariowww.nurturedchild.ca From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of EdenSent: January-12-12 3:40 PMTo: Subject: case study I have permission to post asking about a client I saw today. 5th baby, age 2.5 days, previous three siblings nursed with no problem. Latched alright for a 12 hour period around 12-24 hours old. Now that milk is in, can't seem to latch on. I saw them this afternoon and the baby has a small mouth and mom has large nipples. Healthy full term newborn. She appears to have been a tongue-sucker in utero. Sucks well on a pinky finger, but does not open wide to latch onto the finger (or breast) but rather slurps on and smacks on her tongue as well. She has a relatively small mouth and a tight/strong suck. At breast she mouths, attempts to latch and does one suck, then freezes when the nipple doesn't glide back to the 'sweet' spot' to stimulate an organized suck. Then cries of course, but is a good sport and keeps trying.I recommended: skin to skin, laid back position and side lying (mom was leaning forward trying to stuff her nipple in baby's mouth), reverse pressure softening and nipple stimulation to help give baby something to grasp, sucking on mom or dad's finger before attempting to nurse, putting some pressure/weight on the hand to help relax and drop the jaw, and massage of tmj joint. What other suggestions do you give mothers dealing with " oroboobular disproportion " (who made up that term) ? She is expressing and we syringe fed the baby 22 ml while latched onto mom's finger but that is too exhausting to keep up for long. This is a committed bf mother. Her milk is transitioning and she is full but not painfully engorged.Thanks wise women!-- Eden, BA, IBCLC, RLCLactation ConsultantAtlanta Breastfeeding Consultants, LLCwww.AtlantaBreastfeedingConsultants.com(404)-590-MILK (6455) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yes, it was a fast labor. I have the same musings about unusual positioning. But what else can I recommend? I'll review dancer hand position, good thought .Thanks for the suggestions, keep them coming! , what was baby’s birth like? What I’m finding is that a “really strong suck” is a red flag. I tend to see it with babies where something is going on structurally or there have been interventions during birth (or sometimes it may also be due to very quick delivery, long pushing stage or unusual position in utero). Warmly,Fleur Bickford BSc., RN, IBCLC Ottawa, Ontariowww.nurturedchild.ca From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Eden Sent: January-12-12 3:40 PMTo: Subject: case study I have permission to post asking about a client I saw today. 5th baby, age 2.5 days, previous three siblings nursed with no problem. Latched alright for a 12 hour period around 12-24 hours old. Now that milk is in, can't seem to latch on. I saw them this afternoon and the baby has a small mouth and mom has large nipples. Healthy full term newborn. She appears to have been a tongue-sucker in utero. Sucks well on a pinky finger, but does not open wide to latch onto the finger (or breast) but rather slurps on and smacks on her tongue as well. She has a relatively small mouth and a tight/strong suck. At breast she mouths, attempts to latch and does one suck, then freezes when the nipple doesn't glide back to the 'sweet' spot' to stimulate an organized suck. Then cries of course, but is a good sport and keeps trying. I recommended: skin to skin, laid back position and side lying (mom was leaning forward trying to stuff her nipple in baby's mouth), reverse pressure softening and nipple stimulation to help give baby something to grasp, sucking on mom or dad's finger before attempting to nurse, putting some pressure/weight on the hand to help relax and drop the jaw, and massage of tmj joint. What other suggestions do you give mothers dealing with " oroboobular disproportion " (who made up that term) ? She is expressing and we syringe fed the baby 22 ml while latched onto mom's finger but that is too exhausting to keep up for long. This is a committed bf mother. Her milk is transitioning and she is full but not painfully engorged. Thanks wise women!-- Eden, BA, IBCLC, RLCLactation ConsultantAtlanta Breastfeeding Consultants, LLCwww.AtlantaBreastfeedingConsultants.com (404)-590-MILK (6455) -- Eden, BA, IBCLC, RLCLactation ConsultantAtlanta Breastfeeding Consultants, LLCwww.AtlantaBreastfeedingConsultants.com (404)-590-MILK (6455) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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