Re: Moderating

[Guest guest]

Mike, don't u DARE resign!!!

buddhists don't quit!:}

that's an order fr

ye olde Mercy Muchmore

we love u, need u, want u!!

[Guest guest]

Mike wrote:

> >Pick a new moderator (I would suggest Greg, if you've got any sense),

Dear Mike,

It would seem that I've missed some posts and I don't quite know what's

happening here, but I gotta say I disagree with this wholeheartedly! I've

seen some flames and hurt feelings and have been totally, well, maybe just a

whole lot, not totally, flabbergasted by the conclusions drawn from posts

I've seen nothing obnoxious in. (I know I'm not being grammatically correct

here, but this is too important to get picky about.) But don't let these

hurt feelings, etc., become your problem. As everyone on this list should

understand, projections and pushed buttons are the problems of the projector

and pushee, respectively, not anyone else's.

Anyway, Mike, please, please, don't go. I love your posts, even when they go

way over my head, because often they don't, and there's a lot in them for me

to learn from. Also, besides Suzanne, you were about the only person on the

list who acknowledged me when I just jumped in with both feet and that means

a lot. I appreciate the courtesy and consideration that shows, even when I

didn't follow commonly expected netiquette. You can't be all bad!

I don't envy you the job of moderator because it's a very difficult spot to

be in and I think you fill it wonderfully. If you can stand the strain,

please consider staying in it.

Sam in Texas §(ô¿ô)§

Minds are like parachutes; they function best when open.

A closed mind is a good thing to lose.

" Minds are like parachutes; most people use them only as a last resort. "

~Ben Ostrowsky

[Guest guest]

IonaDove@... wrote:

>

> To whom it may concern:

>

> There seem to be some grievous hurt feelings around our fire, all the result

> of ad hominem remarks n they, in turn, HAVE to be the result of what Jung

> called projections, for the simple logical reason that so few of us have met

> in the flesh! so, obviously we are forming opinions based on postings in

> cyberspace, in which we acquire various ephemeral personas. so, really, i

> think we shld stop and realize this.

>

> Now, i HAVE MET our moderator in person n his lovely wife Vera. we spent an

> entire week together on Iona, wh i had been invit to co-lead a group 2 yrs

> ago. mike came as a member n it was not long before he was invited to

> contribute, to participate, n to lead us in some meditation.

>

> so, i can say honestly that he is above all a lovesome man, kind, humorous,

> soft-spoken, self-deprecating, n a bottomless well of info on many, many

> aspects of life. as a Buddhist, he practices compassion n teaches/shares his

> wisdom wh asked for it. he is an accomplished musician, alchemist, poet,

> jokester n u cn see his pic on [oops lost the link wh my comp crashed - will

> try to get it later]. He is NOT inflated bec he knows that he is only sharing

> the wisdom of teachers wiser than he, as am I. [the nasty paradox=the more u

> know, the more u know u DON'T know!:}

>

> he gives his time freely to moderate j-f n i can pict him trying to sort out

> the stormy petrels in this grp. i feel for him, bec it is not in his nature

> to criticize or take sides. we are sposed to have an interest in Jung in

> common,

>

> this leads me to question ? whether any cybergrp has a collective

> consciousness , [wh Vonnegut called a granfaloon. i susp it does. therefore,

> as we normally are addressing lofty subjects, we may also be generating a

> coll shadow n be subject to stormy weather.

>

> each of us has a right to feel hurt n unprotected etc n none of us, honestly,

> shld feel free to 'slam' another but over the the course of months, we are

> like any family prone to squabble accord to our typology or acc to our chts.

> as an astrologer, it is perhaps easier to see wh anoth pers is coming from -

> but what an opp to learn ab oneself!:}

>

> in this latest upheaval, i have noticed genuine regrets on EVERY side w/no

> consc intent to hurt n CERTAINLY no desire to oust anyone fr the grp. so

> PLEASE don't quit bec ev has so many riches to share!

>

> i realize i am potentially opening myself to criticism n dismissal etc. but

> after this many years i hope i can refrain fr taking this pers!

>

> i have met some of u n have strong reasons to cherish those i have met n my

> PROJECTIONS! on those of u i haven't met are all, w/out exception. full of

> admiration n enjoyment -

>

> so a kind word of apprec to our moderating moderator n to Jung who brought us

> together n to each n ev one of us ALL eager to learn!

>

> w/much love, truly!

> pax!

>

> The Old Lady

>

> Alice O. Howell

> Rosecroft

> 72 Beartown Mt. Road

> Monterey, MA 01245 USA

> Tel:

> Fax:

> " Look for the sacred in the commonplace! "

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/24/01 2:43:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, IonaDove@...

writes:

> Mike, don't u DARE resign!!!

> buddhists don't quit!:}

Hi Mike, Everyone,

I'm with Alice here. LOVE is about STAYING.

I would like to officially apologize for my role in bringing about this

disharmony on the list. It was certainly not my intention to attack anybody

personally but I do regret if my words hurt or offended anyone. That said, I

believe that there are times when we are unusually sensitive and

energetically off balance. The comments of others may trigger painful

memories causing us to see things through the lens of old wounds. I believe

that is currently what is going on here. Mike, I can't imagine the list

could survive with you leaving at this time, especially under these

circumstances. You provide a sense of safety and equanimity, exhibit a

generosity of heart and caring for all of us, equally, and I have learned so

much from you.

I want to share this experience which I had yesterday which somehow relates

to this whole mess. There was a very large bumblebee flying around my

kitchen yesterday and it caught me by surprise while I was washing dishes at

the sink. I opened the screen door to the outside hoping it would find it's

way out but it didn't. After a while I found an old instant coffee jar and

was able to catch the bee and put the cover on. I had intended to bring it

outside and let it go but it was throwing itself around the glass jar so

frantically, that it frightened me and I thought sure that it would sting me

if I let it out. So I left it in the jar and forgot about it for a few hours

while I continued to work at my desk. When I went back out a few hours later

I saw the jar and let the bee out. It was still breathing but barely and I

was flooded with a feeling of such powerful remorse....suddenly I really felt

the struggle for breath, for life, that this small beautiful creature ( he

was round and stripped and furry) endured for hours as a result of my fear of

being stung. The experience filled me with sadness and was a terrible

reminder of my own capacity to do harm. I had left the bee lying on the

porch and this morning it was no longer there. I am hoping it managed to

revive itself and fly off. Clearly, when we hurt each other it is out of

fear, self protection, misplaced anger, and of course the projection of our

own darker instincts. I do believe this list is a spiritual, sacred

community and as such we do have a collective or a " group soul " and that

said, this is a test to see what we are made of. Please, let's all hang in

there with each other. This place means a lot to me.

Love to all,

Suzanne

[Guest guest]

Dear List,

Annette, who I have known since she was in her mother 's belly asked

me to join this list several days ago and has copied me privately on all

correspondence. I have also now had several days to read through all the

posts, all the way back to people who were attacking nasty children?

Children are coming in with the closest to pure love, to put these thoughts

out is concretizing - to use a Mike term - in a not " good way. " God forgive

them, for they know not what they do. Annette, since a child has been a

mystic. She was also born clairvoyant, although she didn't know that until

recently, she put it humbly down to her imagination and intuition. I have

known Annette for longer than you can even begin to dream.

I am just an old hag, an old an ancient withered lady, my young secretary

here doesn't want to write this, but he must.

Annette was trying to make clear that on all the paths home to God's infinite

love there are signposts, these are universal, as the Tibetans ask the young

student to identify his past life's belongings, a student on the path

receives energies according to universal laws of love. More than can be

handled is not given. This cannot be changed by argument, debate, nor

tempests of tiny teacups clattering away trying to make of their small little

mists great signs of lightening.

Yes, all roads lead home, not all the same way. A student requests Teachers

by asking in a " good way. " And, a student must be sufficiently far along the

road to even recognize the Teacher.

She has asked Mike to clarify his statements and to apologize to her for not

giving her the respect due any member of any list, to protect its members

sensitive hearts, feelings, thoughts, ideas. She did not ask him to post yet

more antagonizing emails and to ask for the list's condolensces and sympathy

for her nor for him.

I am withdrawing the shaktipat that she told me she added to her posts in an

attempt to heal and I am glad that Annette has in her heart more forgiveness

and love for you than you can even begin to imagine.

We will not be here long, long enough to calm, then we will move on, this is

for you.

Calm the storms

Calm the Samsara

Seek the Logic

Seek the Knowledge

Ask ye the Blessing of the Heart

that Wisdom may rest on Knowledge

Bless You and Good-Bye,

the hag

[Guest guest]

I only know Jung Circle, JF a sort of child of that list. Maureen was

at the heart of that Temenos. Generous Maureen, who is a *healer*.

mike is by nature a teacher. He is practicing his religion -- so much

that I don't know that I don't know! -- and certainly he will

moderate as a teacher. When he comes to you as a teacher it is not

in condescendence. It is simply who he is. That is his way of

coming to you in love.

It's different. It's slower. But I think it's the most valuable

kind of moderation. He has taught me much about my own rashness

simply by his patience. If he fails you, he feels he fails himself.

He doesn't want to do that. All of us are always learning. Anyone

who thinks they can another Truth is mistaken.

mike: " He stood up for love. "

mike: who I abandoned in the first difficult straits to please a few.

He kept on, bravely. May he be free to use his time where it is best

used. I hope it will be here.

It's not fair to come and share your heart and have to feel that you

are attacked. When attack is intentional -- well , that's the sorrow

of the world. How does a moderator or anyone step in and handle that

when one is not respected? It is a difficulty I've never found a way

around. It seems the misery of the world, I think, that lack of

respect for the divinity that dwells in each heart.

Feelings are as real as anything else. As you well know, they are

messengers, and like mercurius, they are wily tricksters. But their

tricks can lead to good things. I wish that you and mike could

sit down and dry tears. There is real love there. And sweet light

in darkness.

On Jung Circle, there was a specific statement and vision that

narrowed things and protected hearts, especially the intuitive

introverts. Many Jung Lists out there already serving the dominant

psychtypes -- who sometimes prove intolerant of the intuitive fx.

Please don't fight. Whatever truth there may be, we see it when it

comes to us. It's a gift and no one gives it to you but yourSelf. I

thank all of you for what you have taught me. I send all of you my

love.

Deborah

(mattingly conner)

HO KYI NA GA' TE GE WA TS'OG SU NGO

Rejoicing if I am happy, I shall dedicate it to the accumulation of

merit:

P'EN DANG DE WE NAM KA' GANG WAR SHOG

May well-being and joy fill all of space.

DUG NA GA' TE KÜN GYI DUG NGÄL 'KUR

Rejoicing if I am suffering, I shall take upon myself the suffering

of all

beings:

DUG NGÄL 'KOR WA'I GYAM TSO TONG WAR SHOG

May the ocean of suffering that is cyclic existence be emptied.

NA NA GA' TE TS'E RAB LE NGEN 'DZE

Rejoicing in illness, I shall consume the evil karma of my series of

previous lives:

LÜ CHEN KÜN GYI NA GO CHÖ PAR SHOG

For all embodied beings may the doorway of illness be eliminated.

SHI NA GA' TE CHÖ NYI NGANG LA 'CHI

Rejoicing in death, I shall die into the state of absolute thusness:

KYE 'CHI 'KOR WA'I TSA WA CHÖ PAR SHOG

May the cycle of births and deaths be cut off at its root.

MI TS'E RING NA GA' TE TS'OG NYI KYI

Rejoicing now that my human life is long, let the goals of myself and

all

others be

spontaneously realised

RANG SHEN DÖN NYI LHÜN GYI 'DRUB PAR SHOG

By the twofold accumulation (of merit and wisdom).

[Guest guest]

Dear Dear Mike,

Please don't leave. I would go too.

Don't give her the satisfaction of getting rid of you. She thinks it

would prove her right, about everything.

There can't be more than 2 people who anything negative to say. Let them

leave. No one holds them here by force.

I feel guilty that her attack on you was involved with her distress with

me. But , I for one need you to be here with your lovingness and your

level head, not to speak of your great knowledge and love.

In my opinion , this list needs you to be a list. If you go, It is no

longer Jung-Fire.

None of the items you have been accused of hold water. they are untrue,

and you know they are.

Please reconsider, Mike.

with lots of love,

Toni

cloudhand@... wrote:

>

> has dsemanded I make a public confission of the following :

>

> - partiality

> - favouritism

> - an absolute lack of knowledge in any of the subjects I hold forth on (except

-

> perhaps, if I understand her correctly - some minimal knowledge of text...

> I'm not quite sure)

> - a misrepresentation of my own exalted status as a 'spiritually advanced

> being'

> - downright dishonesty

> - power-mongering

> - using my 'position' to crush oponents

> - and a desire to hold onto any 'position of power' I have in this group

>

> To forestall any protest (she assures that at least 12 of you have in private

> expressed your horror and disgust at my foul behaviour), I hereby publicly

> avow that, yes, if it please you, this is entirely the case.

> I could play the smart alec and show you what (not who) I favour, etc., but I

> think I've had enough.

> If there are indeed more than 12 of you (I am aware of three, only one of

> whom contacted me to find out if I had a side in the matter), that is

well-over

> a quorum of active participants for this group.

> I have done my best to keep the group on an even keel, favoured no-one and

> spent precious hours of every day - often as many as 12 to 14 - on it. I

think,

> if you exaine the archives, you will find it is not all exactly as she says,

> however... The matter no longer concerns me.

> Pick a new moderator (I would suggest Greg, if you've got any sense), or

> create a group where all active members are also moderators (which is

> probably the best idea - Rainbow's of course)(not that one is not in other

> such groups elsewhere, but she thought it wise for here, and - surprise,

> surprise - I agree with her).

>

> I hope whatever final impression you have of me, be it good, bad or

> indifferent, spurs *you* on to being what it is thjat you would like, and now

-

> since I have much work awaiting me and know where it might be of at least

> *some* small value - goodbye.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mike, Seconded!!! we love you and need you.Toni

IonaDove@... wrote:

>

> Mike, don't u DARE resign!!!

>

> buddhists don't quit!:}

>

> that's an order fr

>

> ye olde Mercy Muchmore

>

> we love u, need u, want u!!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Do you all know that it is a new moon, for what it is worth? Because I am a

secular humorist, when the moon is full or in shadow, I stay away from any

people with whom I may feel like tangling a--holes. If the moon can pull

huge tides when it is in alignment with the sun and earth, it can certainly

jerk a Jungian or two around a little. Understanding this takes my edge off.

But I must admit, I sometimes miss the angry days.

[Guest guest]

Dear Mike,

This is probably a good thing for us to go through from time to time. Like

most unpleasant times in life, we just have to get through it to get on with

life. I hope by now you have sensed/heard/felt the genuine appreciation for

the wonderful job you do of moderating this wonderful human zoo we have

here. We have been through several flare ups over the years, some far worse

than this one (IMHO), and like the others, this too will pass. But perhaps

the best thing about this episode is that it give us all a chance to express

how much we respect and value what you do for each of us each day. It is NO

SMALL TASK!

While I truly appreciate your kind words about me, I must admit that I could

not do the job, even if I had the time. And I know I couldn't do it as well

as you.

Speaking only for myself, I think this group is a truly remarkable - a

beautiful experiment in international communication, one that would likely

have delighted the old fool in whose name we gather daily. Times like this

help me realize how much a part of my life this group is and what a vacuum

would result if it were to disappear. It is not perfect, because we are

imperfect. And yes each of us is fully capable of projecting our worst

shadow stuff onto one another from time to time. Let's just recognize this

as a fact of life and do our best to keep out of the ditch.

I would like to share one idea with the group. If we do take serious

exeption to something that appears to have been an offensive comment by

someone else (and sometimes we hear things that are not meant to be

offensive), I suggest we try to deal with it privately between each other.

And if we find that something we have said has been misperceived by another,

that we be quick to make a private and public apology - just to clear the

air. It is not so hard to do. And when this has happened with me, as it has

on a few occasions, I can honestly say that it has worked out OK. We are all

adults here.

You are far from an " immoderate " moderator Mike. And like so many others

here, I respect the kindness, firmness, gentleness, humour, humility and

love you bring to the sometimes thankless task. I only apologize for not

letting you know more often how much I appreciate what you do for us.

I hope you reconsider Mike. You are highly valued here!

Greg

On Thu, 24 May 2001 14:39:43 EDT, JUNG-FIRE wrote:

> Mike, don't u DARE resign!!!

>

> buddhists don't quit!:}

>

> that's an order fr

>

> ye olde Mercy Muchmore

>

> we love u, need u, want u!!

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

this is a disgusting turn of events... YOU ARE the moderator and are

WONDERFUL!!! Please come back before you really leave... Please, please,

please... some people who started this stupid stuff just have little

sense...

Love to you,

Roselma (who lurks, but is always spiritually with the group)

Moderating

> has dsemanded I make a public confission of the following :

>

>- partiality

>- favouritism

>- an absolute lack of knowledge in any of the subjects I hold forth on

(except -

> perhaps, if I understand her correctly - some minimal knowledge of text...

>I'm not quite sure)

>- a misrepresentation of my own exalted status as a 'spiritually advanced

>being'

>- downright dishonesty

>- power-mongering

>- using my 'position' to crush oponents

>- and a desire to hold onto any 'position of power' I have in this group

>

>To forestall any protest (she assures that at least 12 of you have in

private

>expressed your horror and disgust at my foul behaviour), I hereby publicly

>avow that, yes, if it please you, this is entirely the case.

>I could play the smart alec and show you what (not who) I favour, etc., but

I

>think I've had enough.

>If there are indeed more than 12 of you (I am aware of three, only one of

>whom contacted me to find out if I had a side in the matter), that is

well-over

>a quorum of active participants for this group.

>I have done my best to keep the group on an even keel, favoured no-one and

>spent precious hours of every day - often as many as 12 to 14 - on it. I

think,

>if you exaine the archives, you will find it is not all exactly as she

says,

>however... The matter no longer concerns me.

>Pick a new moderator (I would suggest Greg, if you've got any sense), or

>create a group where all active members are also moderators (which is

>probably the best idea - Rainbow's of course)(not that one is not in other

>such groups elsewhere, but she thought it wise for here, and - surprise,

>surprise - I agree with her).

>

>I hope whatever final impression you have of me, be it good, bad or

>indifferent, spurs *you* on to being what it is thjat you would like, and

now -

>since I have much work awaiting me and know where it might be of at least

>*some* small value - goodbye.

>

>

>

>