Guest guest Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 In a message dated 9/12/2001 8:29:58 PM Central Daylight Time, rajivanaja@... writes: >> and the >> need >> to obliterate that part of the world which does not agree with >> " them " ... > >Obliterate a part of the world? This is exactly what I was afraid of, >pha. The “rabid violence†was a work of a few terrorists. For that do we >have to wipe out a whole nation? Um, see? More misunderstanding. I read Toni's post to indicate that " the need to obliterate that part of the world that does not agree with " them " ' to refer to " their " attitude, not hers. Sam in Texas §(ô¿ô)§ Minds are like parachutes; they function best when open. A closed mind is a good thing to lose. " Minds are like parachutes; most people use them only as a last resort. " ~Ben Ostrowsky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 << This, I clarify, was my main point. When a child is run over by accident by a car, furious mobs can murder the whole innocent family in that car. These are the perils of human justice that I was talking about. >> but, that's not justice. phoebe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2001 Report Share Posted September 12, 2001 Rajiv Pande wrote: > [fa] > This is a time for compassion on the > list, not for arguing the toss about politics > [Rajiv] > Again, pha, I am misunderstood. There is a difference between compassion > and reckless emotional involvement. This, I clarify, was my main point. > When a child is run over by accident by a car, furious mobs can murder the > whole innocent family in that car. These are the perils of human justice > that I was talking about. > On the other hand, I did not comment on Toni’s words: > “I must say, although I believe in peace, I do believe we have a need to > protect > ourselves and our society from rabid violence, unthinking hate , and the > need > to obliterate that part of the world which does not agree with > " them " ...those > who oppose us by denying our right to exist.” > > Obliterate a part of the world? This is exactly what I was afraid of, > pha. The “rabid violence” was a work of a few terrorists. For that do we > have to wipe out a whole nation? > And then in the same breath you talk about Alice, “Where she herself lives > she > should be personally safe, but she has a large family of children and > grandchildren. I speak of course of our dear Alice.” > I hope Alice is safe. But I also hope Nazira, Fatiha and all those > Muslim/Jewish women and their children and grandchildren and the schools, > the nurseries and the hospitals in those parts of the world that Toni wants > to “obliterate” are safe. > Toni can look after herself, but it is quite clear that she is speaking about the need for us to protect ourselves from those who would obliterate part of the world - she is not suggesting that *we* should obliterate part of the world. Regards, Dan Watkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2001 Report Share Posted September 13, 2001 > When a child is run over by accident by a car, furious mobs can murder the > > whole innocent family in that car. These are the perils of human justice > > that I was talking about. >> > > but, that's not justice. *That's Rajiv(s point. It's NOT justice. It's hysteria. Can we all slow down a little please? m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2001 Report Share Posted September 13, 2001 Hi Sam, I re-read Toni’s words five or six times. Like a cognitive illusion, I think where concentric circles appear to be spinning wildly -sometimes this way sometimes the other. Thanks for the correction – I thought we had an extremist lurking in our midst! Sorry, Toni for my misreading. I am relieved. But funny how I got it right the first time I read it – that ‘s why I didn’t mention it initially perhaps. After she (Toni) replied emotionally (justified, of course, making her lovably human), the words got twisted about and reversed. Just goes to show how even the slightest emotion can distort cognition. And me thinking I am cool headed! Regards Rajiv An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind – Mahatma Gandhi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2001 Report Share Posted September 13, 2001 Rajiv, Try reading my post again. It is not me who suggests obliterating anyone. What i said if you would read correctly is that we must protect ourselves from that sort of hate and violence. Don't jump to conclusions until you read what was said. I am not an idiot or a zealot, or have ever suggested violence. I am afraid of fanatics who would " obliterate the world " Having once been the victim of this kind of madness, i certainly would not recommend it. it goes against everything I believe in. Those on the list who know me would never jump to such a conclusion. How could anyone think such a thing. This is how wars break out. We think we know what the other is saying and we reread what we expect them to say instead of what they said. This is a list of peace loving , mature (in part people. How could anyone who follows Jung to any extent make such a statement/ Didn't you think it odd before you jumped in with both feet? We must protect ourselves, not cause violence to anyone who is not trying to harm us and our civilizations. I also very much doubt this is the work of a few " terrorists. Some country is aiding and abetting them. Most of the civilized world seems to agree with the US on its assessment. It might be a good idea not to jump to conclusions. You are Not the only guardian of the downtrodden of this world. It was precisely the fighting in the Middle East that I was afraid would escalate, that made me think we must protect all of us from fanaticism. I am neither reckless nor preach recklessness. Perhaps you should check the archives of this list before you take off over your misreading. Please read carefully from now on. I am finished with this subject and this ridiculous accusation. We as a human race are not fininished with this horror. Toni Rajiv Pande wrote: > [fa] > This is a time for compassion on the > list, not for arguing the toss about politics > [Rajiv] > Again, pha, I am misunderstood. There is a difference between compassion > and reckless emotional involvement. This, I clarify, was my main point. > When a child is run over by accident by a car, furious mobs can murder the > whole innocent family in that car. These are the perils of human justice > that I was talking about. > On the other hand, I did not comment on Toni’s words: > “I must say, although I believe in peace, I do believe we have a need to > protect > ourselves and our society from rabid violence, unthinking hate , and the > need > to obliterate that part of the world which does not agree with > " them " ...those > who oppose us by denying our right to exist.” > > Obliterate a part of the world? This is exactly what I was afraid of, > pha. The “rabid violence” was a work of a few terrorists. For that do we > have to wipe out a whole nation? > And then in the same breath you talk about Alice, “Where she herself lives > she > should be personally safe, but she has a large family of children and > grandchildren. I speak of course of our dear Alice.” > I hope Alice is safe. But I also hope Nazira, Fatiha and all those > Muslim/Jewish women and their children and grandchildren and the schools, > the nurseries and the hospitals in those parts of the world that Toni wants > to “obliterate” are safe. > > My message is one of peace. And the preservation and conservation of what > little self-control we humans can show in a crisis. The more power you have > (e.g. nuclear weapons) the less can you use it. I hope this message to the > world is clear. > > Regards > Rajiv > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2001 Report Share Posted September 13, 2001 Thanks, My English construction may have been skewered, but anyone who knows me would not have thought of misreading this. Often, in our anger we see what we want to see. I'll try to write less labored sentences, so perhaps I will be read as written. Toni sampatron@... wrote: > In a message dated 9/12/2001 8:29:58 PM Central Daylight Time, > rajivanaja@... writes: > > >> and the > >> need > >> to obliterate that part of the world which does not agree with > >> " them " ... > > > >Obliterate a part of the world? This is exactly what I was afraid of, > >pha. The “rabid violenceâ€* was a work of a few terrorists. For that do we > >have to wipe out a whole nation? > > Um, see? More misunderstanding. I read Toni's post to indicate that " the > need to obliterate that part of the world that does not agree with " them " ' to > refer to " their " attitude, not hers. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2001 Report Share Posted September 14, 2001 I'm glad to see my last reply to this thread somehow made it. I didn't see it. I'm not sure that all my posts are getting through. Thanks. Dan Rajiv Pande wrote: > Dan, > Thanks for your honest and cool-headed reply. Much appreciated – especially > at a time like this. > > With Heartfelt respect > Rajiv > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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