Guest guest Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 In a message dated 6/19/2003 5:35:53 PM Central Daylight Time, Ghazaleh@... writes: > I find today's outrageous terrorism brandishments on this list lamentable, > especially from someone who purports to follow Carl Jung! But I will not > dignify > the slanderous remarks with a like response. Dear Ghazaleh, This is the second time you've mentioned terrorism support on this list and in spite of Alice's response you've brought it up again. I'm confused. I'm not aware of any such thing and at the risk of starting something anew I'd like to know which posts gave you such an impression. Mayhap we're seeing the same things from a very different POV, which would not be uncommon, but I'm really curious to know what you're seeing. Namasté Sam in Texas §(ô¿ô)§ Minds are like parachutes; they only function when open. - Sir Dewar A closed mind is a good thing to lose. " Minds are like parachutes; most people use them only as a last resort. " ~Ben Ostrowsky Some minds are like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and permanently set. ~mrantho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 In a message dated 06/19/2003 6:00:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sampatron@... writes: > Dear Ghazaleh, > > This is the second time you've mentioned terrorism support on this list and > in spite of Alice's response you've brought it up again. I'm confused. I'm > > not aware of any such thing and at the risk of starting something anew I'd > like > to know which posts gave you such an impression. Mayhap we're seeing the > same > things from a very different POV, which would not be uncommon, but I'm > really > curious to know what you're seeing. > > Namasté > Sam in Texas §(ô¿ô)§ > Dear Sam: This was the first time I mentioned the word " terrorism " on this list. I drew my impression from the post below, which I find insulting, slanderous and venemous! Ghazaleh In a message dated 06/19/2003 11:48:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, josefa@... writes: > I appreciate Suzanne's good intentions in posting the original article and > do not wish to suggest that she was in any way wrong to do so. It is > regrettable that this thread has been used by certain elements who wish to > use this list to promote the PLO, but that was in no way Suzanne's doing. > > Just so that everybody knows, I am not reading any posts sent by " Americans " > or others who support the PLO, and have made my feelings on the subject very > clear to Alice. I do not support everything done by Jews in Israel (and have > always said so) - I no longer support Likud (although I have done in the > past) - and am very sad that Mitzvah was not elected as President last year. > However, the PLO is a terrorist organisation, whereas the Israeli army, > faults notwithstanding, is not. I am deeply saddened to see people on a Jung > list, of all places, supporting terrorism. > > fa > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 In a message dated 6/19/2003 8:12:21 PM Central Daylight Time, Ghazaleh@... writes: > Dear Sam: > > This was the first time I mentioned the word " terrorism " on this list. I > drew > my impression from the post below, which I find insulting, slanderous and > venemous! > Dear Ghazaleh, Maybe the timing of my receipt of posts made it appear as if it were brought up twice. That's not important and I'm not going to go back through the posts to see where I got the impression. I also read the post you referenced and didn't see any indication of support for terrorism. But that's my POV. You're entitled to yours and I'm satisfied you answered my question. Thank you. Namasté Sam in Texas §(ô¿ô)§ Minds are like parachutes; they only function when open. - Sir Dewar A closed mind is a good thing to lose. " Minds are like parachutes; most people use them only as a last resort. " ~Ben Ostrowsky Some minds are like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and permanently set. ~mrantho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Dear Sam: Please read both posts again. Unfortunately you seem to have misunderstood my meaning. Ghazaleh In a message dated 06/19/2003 8:15:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sampatron@... writes: > Dear Ghazaleh, > > Maybe the timing of my receipt of posts made it appear as if it were brought > > up twice. That's not important and I'm not going to go back through the > posts > to see where I got the impression. > > I also read the post you referenced and didn't see any indication of support > > for terrorism. But that's my POV. You're entitled to yours and I'm > satisfied > you answered my question. Thank you. > > Namasté > Sam in Texas §(ô¿ô)§ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 Toni: You are not to presume the knowledge, innocence, love or psychcological maturity to teach me how to behave or to point out my flaws. I don't give you the same permission or position that I do the moderator! I meant every word I said about fa's post and will stand by them. It is your long time friend to whom you should direct your proseltyzing. It was fa with her unprovoked, baseless, false and venemous remark about " terrorists " on this list that aroused my outrage. The last time I left Jungfire, it was also because of fa's personal hate mails, and name-calling ( " terrorist " ) in addition to her public attacks, which I see she is hell bent on continuing and I will not tolerate. It is fa who should take back her outrageous remarks and adjust an attitude that models that of those who commit hate crimes against Arabs and all Muslims in this country. You think I would stand by idly and take that from her, you or the President of the United States? How can you live with your conscience taking this out on me when you know well that I have been the subject of venemous and baseless attacks? And don't you go on telling me what to think and say about what is going on with the present administration in this country that gave you refuge! It's still a free country, unless God forbid, more hate mongers take over all the reigns and judge people based on their beliefs.... Ghazaleh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 Gazaleh, I presume, because I am not a monitor of this list, but an offended member, to write the following to you. I promised myself never to post to you again, but I see your blitzkrieg is now directed in the same general direction, but to someone else. Harshness of tongue and name-calling has no place here as Alice has warned many times. When you label another person by pointing your finger at him, the other finger is pointing back at you. " Terrorism " is the word of the moment and means just one thing..to instill terror in another.I do not see that unprovoked, senseless violence anywhere here, nor I imagine do the others here on this list. As a personal aside, fa is in my opinion, also occasionally angry and therefore rash,as are we all, but she is none of the terrible words you chose to use. She is a long and honored member of this list and a personal friend. She was here long before you ,and I imagine is dedicated to the list's survival long after you may have left again. Isn't it strange that during your absence here, we had argument, sometimes heated, but never did we sink to namecalling and or vindictiveness. Then you returned, and now look at us again. What puzzles me, is that you seem unaware of the message you are sending. Sure we all sometimes let emotion rule our beliefs, but it seem a normal action for you to forget the spiritual message you are trying to send,while your actions and vindictiveness toward others shows through . I know this problem well, since I am an offender also. My reaction however when I am sane again is to apologize for my weakness,and try like mad not to fall in the trap again. It is my Self that I was not being true too, and that hurts worse. This type of behavior and attitude come straight from the ego, as I am sure you realize. I can see it in myself. I just have to prove I am right...whatever the consequences. We all want to be right, some of us are just not ready to go to the extreme to try to prove it. I for one, and I suspect everyone here has read the law-o-n-g excerpt from Jung. It seems strange to me that you haven't realized yet, that everyone has their own interpretation of what he writes. I myself often quote him when it adds strength to my case, and on a Jung list that is proper. But one shouldn't be surprised if just as intelligent and learned people see and understand the context differently.I have been cautioned not to use Jung as a weapon against others, and I knew that that was what I had done. Perhaps that same caution could apply to you. None of us is so fully conscious that the collective unconscious and our personal unconscious do not show up on occasion. Indeed to consider ourselves conscious seems to me to be an inflation of severe proportions. " Somewhat conscious " maybe, but anymore than that, I doubt would fit most of us. We still have our complexes although many of us work on them as often as they pop up to cause us to react out of p[roportion to whatever we are faced with. Maybe we should all be aware that this isn't 'the island of the blessed 'but a list of people on a journey to a place only they personally can define. Maybe more empathy and a feeling of love would be appropriate. That is a positive action. To continually run down what others consider differently (to my mind, the attack on this country which gave me safety and security, which many immigrants have won is hardly appropriate. Sure America has made mistakes, and times are perilous and we need to fix some things from within, but a bold attack is to my mind a shameless act for anyone to whom it gave sanctuary.) Sorry for the aside,but I was deeply offended. Fanaticism is an evil in anyone, and a danger to all. We must guard ourselves from any action which elevates our truth into the universal Truth. It is the cause of most of our national and international problems as it is. If you are going to post again, may I humbly suggest that the nasty words you use to describe others( venomous,slanderous, terrorist,for example) are insulting to all of us. Further they accomplish nothing but to assuage pride...pure ego. I feel, as a fellow sinner here, that I can see exactly what is happening, and I hope to warn you of the personal grief all this will cost you when you become conscious of your motives and words which are unworthy of you. Toni Original Message ----- To: <JUNG-FIRE > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 9:09 PM Subject: Re: Revisiting Jung I In a message dated 06/19/2003 6:00:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sampatron@... writes: > Dear Ghazaleh, > > This is the second time you've mentioned terrorism support on this list and > in spite of Alice's response you've brought it up again. I'm confused. I'm > > not aware of any such thing and at the risk of starting something anew I'd > like > to know which posts gave you such an impression. Mayhap we're seeing the > same > things from a very different POV, which would not be uncommon, but I'm > really > curious to know what you're seeing. > > Namasté > Sam in Texas §(ô¿ô)§ > Dear Sam: This was the first time I mentioned the word " terrorism " on this list. I drew my impression from the post below, which I find insulting, slanderous and venemous! Ghazaleh In a message dated 06/19/2003 11:48:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, josefa@... writes: > I appreciate Suzanne's good intentions in posting the original article and > do not wish to suggest that she was in any way wrong to do so. It is > regrettable that this thread has been used by certain elements who wish to > use this list to promote the PLO, but that was in no way Suzanne's doing. > > Just so that everybody knows, I am not reading any posts sent by " Americans " > or others who support the PLO, and have made my feelings on the subject very > clear to Alice. I do not support everything done by Jews in Israel (and have > always said so) - I no longer support Likud (although I have done in the > past) - and am very sad that Mitzvah was not elected as President last year. > However, the PLO is a terrorist organisation, whereas the Israeli army, > faults notwithstanding, is not. I am deeply saddened to see people on a Jung > list, of all places, supporting terrorism. > > fa > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 20, 2003 Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 Pray tell, what have you had to " take " from the POTUS? Dan Watkins Ghazaleh@... wrote: > Toni: > > You are not to presume the knowledge, innocence, love or psychcological > maturity to teach me how to behave or to point out my flaws. I don't give you the > same permission or position that I do the moderator! I meant every word I said > about fa's post and will stand by them. It is your long time friend to > whom you should direct your proseltyzing. It was fa with her unprovoked, > baseless, false and venemous remark about " terrorists " on this list that aroused > my outrage. > > The last time I left Jungfire, it was also because of fa's personal hate > mails, and name-calling ( " terrorist " ) in addition to her public attacks, which > I see she is hell bent on continuing and I will not tolerate. It is fa > who should take back her outrageous remarks and adjust an attitude that models > that of those who commit hate crimes against Arabs and all Muslims in this > country. You think I would stand by idly and take that from her, you or the > President of the United States? How can you live with your conscience taking this > out on me when you know well that I have been the subject of venemous and > baseless attacks? And don't you go on telling me what to think and say about what is > going on with the present administration in this country that gave you > refuge! It's still a free country, unless God forbid, more hate mongers take over > all the reigns and judge people based on their beliefs.... > > Ghazaleh > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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