RE: another butter question

[Guest guest]

,

I know that farmers feed the skim milk to hogs as they do fine on it. I suppose it could also be used in recipes that have other sources of fat?

[Guest guest]

Dear Alison--the skimmed milk was given to the pigs! (Which turned it into nutritious fat.) Sally

[Guest guest]

Another thing, in the past milk had much more fat in it--the cream would take up about 1/3 of the container. So you could remove some and still have milk with cream in it. Sally

[Guest guest]

I know that this is not a perfect solution...But most of us use mozzarella cheese. This is a lower fat milk cheese and according to some of my friends who make it regularly, a very easy cheese to make.

I have a hard time throwing perfectly good milk out the door as well. I do not have any pigs to feed and never will because I would never raise or keep pork in my house. I also know that some people feed milk to their chickens, cats, dogs, and any other animals they have around. They are a family of three with one milk cow and a few goats and they have a lot of milk to get rid of!

Back in times when everyone farmed and had as much food as they could ever want would just get rid of the skim milk, but now with food as a commodity item it is all worth some monetary amount. Milk is worth quite a bit of money especially if you are getting a specialty milk. So it is hard to look at the gallon of milk you just paid good money for, skim a little off the top and throw the rest down the drain.

If you are just skimming the milk with a ladle, there will be some fat content left to your milk. This is what I usually do, I skim only half of the cream off to use and then we still drink the milk.

None of these options is perfect I know, but I can always hear the saying, "there are starving people in some parts of the world, eat all your food!" which makes it harder to throw out food....

I have wondered though...With most Americans drinking skim milk, what happens to all that cream?

a Augustine

I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright.I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun more.I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive.I wish you enough pain so that the smallest joys in life appear much bigger.I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting.I wish you enough loss to appreciate all that you possess.I wish you enough ''Hello's" to get you through the final goodbye.--anonymous

----- Original Message -----

From: Alison

Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 12:57 PM

Subject: another butter question

Here's a question for you-This may be obvious to some of you, but I can't seemto figure it out. On the one hand, we should drinkonly whole milk, but on the other hand, we should eatlots of fresh butter. I think one of the reasons I'vebeen putting off making butter, is that I don't knowwhat I'll do with all the skim milk I'll have leftover. I don't want to waste it! So somebody justreassure me it's ok to make lowfat cheese or yogurt!) How is the skim milk leftover from making buttertraditionally used?Alison__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Dear Alan,

The pig makes vitamin D through the action of sunlight on its skin (just like humans) and stores it in his fat. Lard is really one of the best sources of vitamin D. (It is also a great cooking fat)

The body can make saturated fats from carbohydrates, but fats are more satisfying, slow down digestion (and the rush of sugars to the bloodstream) keep blood sugar on an even keel, and probably perform lost of other functions. The human body does not crave fat for nothing.

Sally

[Guest guest]

The amount of fat is a function of the breed (Jerseys and Guernseys produce more) and the quality of the pasture. The milk we purchased in France was 1/3 cream. Sally

[Guest guest]

A lot of the cream goes into ice cream--much more profitable. Sally

[Guest guest]

a,

You must have a nice load of cream with your milk!

I have a different problem--I am getting (raw) milk and the fat content (I

believe) is lower than it could be. I am happily supplementing our diet

with good butter, coconut oil, and other fats, but I would love it if there

were a way to add even more cream to the milk that we drink! My children

would profit from the addition, since they do drink milk well.

I've tried mail-ordering good raw cream to add to my milk but the couple of

times I've ordered it, it's " enjoyed " so much jolting on the way to me that

it arrived more as butter than cream!

Has anyone any suggestions or experience in " enriching " raw milk?

" a

Augustine "

< >

<augustines@bi cc:

gfoot.com> Subject: Re:

another butter question

08/28/2001

10:03 PM

Please respond

to

native-nutriti

on

If you are just skimming the milk with a ladle, there will be some fat

content left to your milk. This is what I usually do, I skim only half of

the cream off to use and then we still drink the milk.

None of these options is perfect I know, but I can always hear the saying,

" there are starving people in some parts of the world, eat all your food! "

which makes it harder to throw out food....

I have wondered though...With most Americans drinking skim milk, what

happens to all that cream?

a Augustine

I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright.

I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun more.

I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive.

I wish you enough pain so that the smallest joys in life appear much

bigger.

I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting.

I wish you enough loss to appreciate all that you possess.

I wish you enough ''Hello's " to get you through the final goodbye.

--anonymous

----- Original Message -----

From: Alison

Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 12:57 PM

Subject: another butter question

Here's a question for you-

This may be obvious to some of you, but I can't seem

to figure it out. On the one hand, we should drink

only whole milk, but on the other hand, we should eat

lots of fresh butter. I think one of the reasons I've

been putting off making butter, is that I don't know

what I'll do with all the skim milk I'll have left

over. I don't want to waste it! So somebody just

reassure me it's ok to make lowfat cheese or yogurt!

) How is the skim milk leftover from making butter

traditionally used?

Alison

__________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

* safallon@... (safallon@...) [010828 18:36]:

* Subject: Re: another butter question:

>

> Dear Alison--the skimmed milk was given to the pigs! (Which turned it into

> nutritious fat.) Sally

Do you really believe that fat is nutritious?

I find it hard to believe myself. The body can

readily manufacture all but a few types of fat

(w3 and w6), so why would the fat itself be

of any importance?

It seems much more reasonable to me that it is

the fat-soluble nutrients that *may* be contained

in fat that is of primary value. It is these

nutrients that are not easy or even possible for

the body to make. If so, feeding nutrient-poor

skimmed milk to pigs, it seems, can only lead to

nutrient-poor fat on the pig. I'm now leaning

toward thinking that much of our sources of fat

today are merely empty calories, in much the same

way refined, white flour is.

Am I totally off base here?

--alan

[Guest guest]

* safallon@... (safallon@...) [010828 18:38]:

* Subject: Re: another butter question:

>

> Another thing, in the past milk had much more fat in it--the cream would

> take up about 1/3 of the container. So you could remove some and still have

> milk with cream in it. Sally

That's very interesting. Why do you suppose that

is? Is it conceivable that the soil in which the

cow food is grown is being rapidly depleted of its

fertility? Surely it can't be only due to cow breeds

as Jersey and Guernsey cows, though increasingly rare,

don't produce anywhere near that much cream in my

experience.

--alan

[Guest guest]

* a Augustine (augustines@...) [010828 21:05]:

* Subject: Re: another butter question:

> I know that this is not a perfect solution...But most of us use

> mozzarella cheese. This is a lower fat milk cheese and according to

> some of my friends who make it regularly, a very easy cheese to make.

>

> I have a hard time throwing perfectly good milk out the door as well.

> [ ... ]

How about pooring it on your compost pile or garden

to replentish the calcium, phosphorous, etc. content?

--alan

[Guest guest]

--- In @y..., " a Augustine " <augustines@b...>

wrote:

>

> I have wondered though...With most Americans drinking skim milk,

what happens to all that cream?

>

a,

I read somewhere that dairy companies just sell the cream separately,

in different products that contain cream. So they are making double

the money just by separating the milk!

[Guest guest]

* safallon@... (safallon@...) [010830 05:18]:

* Subject: Re: another butter question:

> Dear Alan,

>

> The pig makes vitamin D through the action of sunlight on its skin (just like

> humans) and stores it in his fat. Lard is really one of the best sources of

> vitamin D.

So you feel that out of the thousands of known nutrients

and tens of thousands (millions?) of unknown nutrients,

one nutrient is sufficient to justify its use -- especially

when that one nutrient is something we can manufacture

ourselves? (Assuming we're not on cholesterol lowering

drugs and we don't take the mainstream advice of staying

out of the sun, of course.) I really don't mean to

discount the value of vitamin D, I'm just not sure that

with so many important fat-soluble nutrients, we can

afford to consume fats that aren't better balanced.

I'm no pig expert, but of the pigs I've seen raised on

farms, all of them have had the absolute worst diets I've

ever seen (except perhaps for all-too-frequent,

twinky-subsisting American). An occasional corn-cob may

well be the most nutritious thing they ever eat. They

typically eat nothing but stale Wonder (white) bread and

old, skim milk. Just what do this animals provide other

than just straight-forward hydro-carbons (fats, protein,

cholesterol, vitamin D, etc.). Where are the minerals and

mineral-derived nutrients (Zn, Se, B12, etc.)? Why would I

want to waste my time with such high-calorie, nutrient-poor

food?

> (It is also a great cooking fat)

How well does vitamin D survive the high temp. cooking

that lard is usually used for? I had always assumed that

lard was almost all saturated fat, but when I learned

years ago that it's only about 40% SF, I began to wonder

how it could be a good cooking fat. The USDA database gives:

SF% MUSF% PUSF%

Lard 41.0 47.2 11.7

Butter 65.7 30.4 3.9

Coconut Oil 91.9 6.2 1.9

Does lard have some magic that protects the unsaturated

bonds from moving to the trans- configuration?

> The body can make saturated fats from carbohydrates, but fats are more

> satisfying, slow down digestion (and the rush of sugars to the bloodstream)

> keep blood sugar on an even keel, and probably perform lost of other

> functions. The human body does not crave fat for nothing.

But the body also craves sugar. I'd guess that in both

cases, our bio/chemical/evolutionarily-derived bodies is

expecting the sugar and the fat to be chuck full of

nutrients, and when they are, they seem to satisfy the

cravings, while the refined or low-nutrient versions

don't. I might suggest that it is possible that the

craving is not really for the fat (or sugar) so much as the

nutrients, and if the apparent craving for fat (or sugar)

doesn't go away, the food taken in didn't provide the body

what it was looking for.

--alan

[Guest guest]

hi, alan and all--

> -- especially when that one nutrient is something we can manufacture

> ourselves? (Assuming we're not on cholesterol lowering

> drugs and we don't take the mainstream advice of staying

> out of the sun, of course.)

did you read the article on D, which sally recommended recently?

http://www.westonaprice.org/Nutr_D.html

>Why would I

> want to waste my time with such high-calorie, nutrient-poor

> food?

but fat (or lard, in this particular discussion) is *not* a high-

calorie, nutrient-poor food. calories *are* nutrients...macro-

nutrients. fats are excellent natural sources of energy. and cancer

cells cannot utilize fat, while they thrive on sugars.

allene

[Guest guest]

Several nutritional experts say fat IS an important nutrient.

Best Regards, Ratliff

icq 1495914, msn ROBERT RATLIFF ,aim mtncurr22, http://www.copernic.com

search engine

http://www.ghisler.com> windows commander http://www.paltalk.com> voice/text

chat (I'm TennRascal)

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<*>

-----Original Message-----

From: Alan Lundin [mailto:aflundi@...]

Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11:46 AM

Subject: Re: another butter question

* safallon@... (safallon@...) [010828 18:36]:

* Subject: Re: another butter question:

>

> Dear Alison--the skimmed milk was given to the pigs! (Which turned it

into

> nutritious fat.) Sally

Do you really believe that fat is nutritious?

I find it hard to believe myself. The body can

readily manufacture all but a few types of fat

(w3 and w6), so why would the fat itself be

of any importance?

It seems much more reasonable to me that it is

the fat-soluble nutrients that *may* be contained

in fat that is of primary value. It is these

nutrients that are not easy or even possible for

the body to make. If so, feeding nutrient-poor

skimmed milk to pigs, it seems, can only lead to

nutrient-poor fat on the pig. I'm now leaning

toward thinking that much of our sources of fat

today are merely empty calories, in much the same

way refined, white flour is.

Am I totally off base here?

--alan

[Guest guest]

* ROBERT RATLIFF (bobratliff@...) [010830 18:28]:

* Subject: RE: another butter question:

> Several nutritional experts say fat IS an important nutrient.

And I say 60 minerals in thousands of combinations

other than a relatively small number of fatty acids

are important nutrients. I contend that the 'experts'

say fat is an important nutrient because when people

comsume it, beneficial things happen to the health

of the person. Was it the fat alone? I suspect it

wasn't. I suspect it had more to do with the fat-

soluble nutrients contained in the fat.

The problem is that as time goes on, we allow our

energy sources, carbohydrates, proteins, and fats, to

become more and more " pure, " increasingly devoid of

the other nutrients nature intended to be included.

Have you read Price's _Nutrition and Physical

Degeneration_? A major point (perhaps *THE* major

point) he made is that the food of the healthy peoples

he studied had a much higher density of nutrients than

our food. His message seems to be clear -- raise the

nutrient-density of our food.

As I see it, we are in a race -- not against time or

against other people, but against calories. The

race is to consume as many nutrients per calorie as

possible, and every time we consume empty calories

-- refined sugar, refined flour, even nutrient-poor

fat -- we are being set back in our fight for good

health. We need to make sure that the fat we consume

is of the highest quality and the nutrient-densest

we can find.

--alan

[Guest guest]

Don't forget energy, fat provides a concentrated source, in a form

that many believe is more easily digested than carbos. I believe

many health problems are caused by OD'ing on carbohydrates. There is

evidence that starches and dissaccarides are much more difficult for

humans to digest than fats and proteins. Which is one reason NT

advocates treating/predigesting grains and avoiding table sugar.

Carbos can also cause a flood of insulin to be released resulting in

highs and lows the body often can't deal with. Fat provides

satiation which keeps people from being constantly hungry, giving

them needed energy in a beneficial form. (Of course you can overdo

everything, and I suspect the ideal fat/carbo/protein ratio differs

for each individual based on genetics, present condition, etc.)

Alan Wrote:

But the body also craves sugar. I'd guess that in both

cases, our bio/chemical/evolutionarily-derived bodies is

expecting the sugar and the fat to be chuck full of

nutrients, and when they are, they seem to satisfy the

cravings, while the refined or low-nutrient versions

don't. I might suggest that it is possible that the

craving is not really for the fat (or sugar) so much as the

nutrients, and if the apparent craving for fat (or sugar)

doesn't go away, the food taken in didn't provide the body

what it was looking for.

--alan

[Guest guest]

I mentioned this same thing to some friends of ours that have a small farm.

Their comment was " it looks like you will be getting some pigs before long " .

[Guest guest]

Dear Alan,

Heating does not produce trans fats--they are made in a huge machine called a hydgroenator, with the addition of a catalyst.

vitamin D is extremely important and the body cannot usually make enough.

See the article on vitamin D on our website.

There also are many other good things in animal fats--minerals, special antimicrobial fatty acids, etc. I don't understand why you are against fats. AFter all, mother's milk is loaded with fat.

If you are not going to eat carbohydrates and not going to eat fats, what are you going to eat? Anything over 20% protein is very toxic. Remember the native AMericans, and in fact all indegenous peoples never ate lean meat--they always ate it with the fat. Sally

[Guest guest]

When you eat more fats, you are not so likely to feel pessimistic. Sally

[Guest guest]

>> Lard is really one of the best sources of vitamin D. (It is also a great cooking fat)

I can only find a single brand of lard available anywhere in Phoenix, the stuff that is on the regular grocery store shelves. Is that stuff okay to use, or is it processed badly and rancid?

Carma Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing worth knowing can be taught. - Wilde - carmapaden@...

[Guest guest]

SEveral of our advertisers sell lard and you can order it from them. Sally

[Guest guest]

Read my last post on lard.

Best Regards, Ratlifficq 1495914msn ROBERT RATLIFFaim mtncurr22http://www.copernic.com search enginehttp://www.ghisler.com>windows commanderhttp://www.paltalk.com>voice/text chat<*>

-----Original Message-----From: Carma Paden [mailto:carmapaden@...]Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 6:41 PM Subject: RE: another butter question

>> Lard is really one of the best sources of vitamin D. (It is also a great cooking fat)

I can only find a single brand of lard available anywhere in Phoenix, the stuff that is on the regular grocery store shelves. Is that stuff okay to use, or is it processed badly and rancid?

Carma Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing worth knowing can be taught. - Wilde - carmapaden@...

[Guest guest]

Correct, most fast food places fry in trans fats. Stay away from them and eat butter and vegetable fats. Walter C. Willett put out a great new book "EAT, DRINK AND BE HEALTHY". It explains the fats very clearly. Crisco is a NO NO to. The book is just out and has very good up to date nutritional research.

Best Regards, Ratlifficq 1495914msn ROBERT RATLIFFaim mtncurr22http://www.copernic.com search enginehttp://www.ghisler.com>windows commanderhttp://www.paltalk.com>voice/text chat<*>

-----Original Message-----From: safallon@... [mailto:safallon@...]Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 6:50 AM Subject: Re: another butter questionDear Alan, Heating does not produce trans fats--they are made in a huge machine called a hydgroenator, with the addition of a catalyst. vitamin D is extremely important and the body cannot usually make enough. See the article on vitamin D on our website. There also are many other good things in animal fats--minerals, special antimicrobial fatty acids, etc. I don't understand why you are against fats. AFter all, mother's milk is loaded with fat. If you are not going to eat carbohydrates and not going to eat fats, what are you going to eat? Anything over 20% protein is very toxic. Remember the native AMericans, and in fact all indegenous peoples never ate lean meat--they always ate it with the fat. Sally

[Guest guest]

Dear Alan,

You have got it wrong on the trans fats--they are not formed by heat--you need a catalyst to do it. Suggest you get Enig's book Know Your Fats.

We need to do the best we can in obtaining quality food, but never make a fetish about it. Do the best you can and they just bless the food and be grateful. Then make sure you take some superfoods (cod liver oil. nutritional yeast, azomite, etc.) to make up for the nutrients that should have been there.

On the pigs, even those in confinement get ultra-violet light--otherwise they die--so even the worst quality lard contains vitamin D. Of course, lard from pasture-fed pigs is much better, but if your only choice is supermarket lard, that is infinitely better than margarine or shortening. We need to remember that for most people. their choices are limited to the supermarket. We need to give them something that is doable. Sally