A 'novel' ANTIVIRAL treatment, wonder what you guys think

[Guest guest]

Hi Stan and others, I came across this on another list (it is from a

website) and wondered if anyone has heard of or used this - it is

something like an Epsom salt bath 'with a twist'...

I will cut and paste in no particular order, with the treatment idea

described in the first paragraph, but to get a better idea behind the

thinking it is worth reading the whole thing.

Natasa

The Proposed Vitamin C, Lysine & Epsom Salt (CLES) Bath

....After puzzling over the problem, I remembered that many people have

found soaking in a bath of Epsom Salt to be generally helpful. Epsom

Salt is magnesium sulfate and magnesium is an essential mineral that

plays a key role in energy production. Even though the skin is highly

resistant to absorption of magnesium sulfate, a bath in it exposes the

entire skin area of the body to it, so even a small permeability is

sufficient to allow a helpful dose to penetrate the skin and enter the

blood. Could this work for vitamin C?

The skin should be more permeable to it than Epsom Salt. If so, a bath

in a solution of vitamin C could result in enough getting through the

skin to be effective and should have the same highly beneficial effect

controlling viruses characteristic of an intravenous injection of it.

One could also add some lysine and Epsom Salt.

Vitamin C is quite acidic so care would have to be taken to either use

buffered vitamin C or neutralize the vitamin C with baking soda in a

separate solution before adding it to the bath water. Otherwise the

bath water would be too acidic.

When I discussed this concept with Kent it made sense to him also. At

my suggestion he tried it on himself first. His bath water contained

vitamin C (buffered with baking soda), a similar quantity of Epsom

Salt, and a small amount of lysine. I talked to him the next day and he

said he felt exceptionally good and the cold that had started the

previous day was now gone. That night he gave his daughter a similar

bath. Over the next two days the diarrhea she had for the previous two

weeks was gone.

My interpretation is the lysine, which

she not only got in the bath, but was also continuing to take orally,

controlled the herpes virus. The vitamin C controlled the measles virus

in the intestine while added even more control of the herpes virus (in

the brain). The Epsom Salt provided some extra magnesium, which

enhances metabolic energy production.

This introduces another thought. If the duodenum's inability to produce

secretin is caused by ongoing measles virus activity in the intestine,

the elimination/control of the virus with the bath treatment may make

the secretin treatment no longer necessary. The duodenum may gradually

heal and start to produce secretin again. This may also hold true for

the well-known food sensitivities that most autistic children

experience. They may be due to damage of the intestinal wall caused by

an ongoing measles virus infection. If so, they too may be mitigated by

this bath. We don't know the answers to these postulations yet.

To my knowledge this CLES bath treatment has never been tried before

with an autistic child, or anyone else. However it would appear to be

safe to try as long as the person is not allergic to the components and

starts slowly watching for any unexpected adverse reactions. If the

virus theory is correct, it should be exceptionally effective at

controlling the herpes, measles and other viruses. It would be the

starting point, after which nutritional approaches to enhance energy

and mental function could be used while avoiding the crash.

A Caution: I attended a medical conference a few years ago where the

use of large doses of vitamin C was discussed. One observation loomed

out to me. Studies were done where blood samples were obtained before

and during treatment and analyzed for vitamin C. Initially there was no

detectable level of vitamin C and the patient tolerated large doses. As

the treatment progressed, the vitamin C level in the blood increased

along with the patient feeling better. However, as the patients

recovered they could no longer tolerate the large doses of vitamin C.

They caused diarrhea. If the bath treatment is effective, I would

suspect a similar result. As a patient feels better, the baths may

result in too much introduction of vitamin C, causing diarrhea.

Proposed Root Cause of Autism

Is there a root cause of autism that appears to have gone unrecognized?

I am going to propose such a cause and its mechanism that makes sense

to me. It identifies an apparent primary cause and also a

prevention/treatment approach.

My "insight" was triggered by the latest book I am reading:

"Microbiology - Principles and Explorations" by Jacquelyn G. Black, 5th

Edition (2002). It is a wonderfully penetrating book that digs deeply

into bacteria, fungi and virus pathogens. The part that turned the

light on in my head was in chapter 20 addressing sexually transmitted

diseases. Many of these can be latent in the mother and still passed on

to the fetus either through the placenta or in the birth canal. It is

also known that some of these can cause brain damage to particularly

susceptible infants.

In particular, I would like to draw attention to Pg. 570 where she

addresses Cytomegalovirus (CMV's) Infections. This group consists a

widespread and diverse group of herpesviruses. An extimated 80 percent

of U.S. adults carry the virus, and it can be spread by sexual

intercourse. In fetuses it can be life threatening. They become

infected by viruses that cross the placenta from infected mothers. Both

fetuses and neonates are dependent on maternal defenses (maternal

antibodies) because their immune defenses are too immature to deal with

the viruses. Such maternal provided immune defenses can be strengthened

by breast feeding. When this defense system fails, it can result in

brain damage or death. Tests for maternal antibody levels are

available, but the measurements are rarely made.

The Theory:

Let us suppose the baby is seriously infected by CMV, fully challenging

his and his mother's provided immune defenses. Then, add the MMR

vaccine. This is an attenuated, live virus vaccination. The vaccination

challenges the already fully challenged immune system beyond its

capability to respond effectively. As a result, both the CMV and the

MMR viruses get out of control. The MMR viruses alter the duodenal

cells so that they no longer can produce secretin. This results in

serious intestinal damage, commonly observed in autistic children, as

already discussed in this web page. It is also observed that the stools

of such children contain a large fraction of undigested food,

indicating insufficient absorption of nutrition.

The resulting lack of nutrition not only starves the developing brain,

but is also starves the immune system that is attempting to deal with

the multiple virus attack. Thus, the attack by a combination of at

least two different viruses, each making the other more resistant to an

immune response, is the proposed cause of autism. In time the child's

immune system may get the viruses under better control, but only after

considerable damage has been done.

I bring up CMV as only one example. It could be another virus with

similar characteristics. However, CMV has the characteristic of being

known to cause brain damage. Others could also. It is also known to be

highly prevalent in the U.S. population, and is sexually transmitted.

This could explain the relatively recent large increase of reported

cases of autism. It could be a result of a more sexually liberal

society coupled with working mothers doing less breast feeding.

Identifying CMV and not MMR as the primary cause of brain damage could

explain why some children don't have the intestinal disorder but are

still autistic. The CMV did its damage and did not need the support of

the MMR damaging the digestive system.

What to do/Suggestions:

1.

Test for the virus antibodies in the

mother. If found, delay vaccinations until the child's immune system is

strong enough.

2.

Breast feed.

3.

For children with a serious intestinal

disorder, detect it as early as possible. One detection method is to

look for undigested food in the stools. If found, the only way I know

of to correct this disorder if to feed the child pig duodenum powder,

as described on my product web page. It should result in greatly

improved nutritional uptake. If detected early enough, damage from both

viruses will be minimized. My dream is that this will provide a

treatment that will arrest the development of autism early, before

serious damage is done.

4.

Antivirus treatments/drugs: If a herpes

virus does play the critical role suggested here, an anti-herpes virus

treatment could be considered. For this role, one could consider

L-Lysine which is an non-prescription amino acid that has been used for

years to control herpes simplex by many people. It has the advantage of

being one of the essential amino acids, present in all proteins, and

thus presents an extremely low risk of negative side effects. In terms

of specific prescription drugs, I have identified two anti-virus drugs

that target herpes viruses. They are Zovirax and Valtrex. They are both

described in The Physician's Desk Reference. I won't attempt to

reproduce the lengthly discussion of them in that reference.

I would be interested in learning what others think of this proposed theory, and how it can be improved.

UPDATE 11/03

The proposed diet indicator/diagnostic:

How can a parent determine if the herpes theory applies to their child?

It is well known that people suffering from herpes (of all types?)are

not only helped by L-Lysine but they also react very negatively to

Arginine. To get an indication of this, one can look at their reaction

to certain foods. Some are high in lysine and low in arginine and

others are high in arginine and low in lysine. An extensive listing of

foods and their relative concentrations of lysine and arginine is given

on the web page: www.herpes.com. Once on the web page, click on the

button titled Diet & Nutrition. In every case where I have

discussed this with the parents of an autistic child, they have looked

and had already had discovered that their child could not tollerate the

foods that are listed as high in arginine. If the theory presented

above is correct, this is not only a dietary guide, but it is a

diagnostic as to the root cause of their autism - a herpes (and

measles) virus infection.

The First Case:

(5 yrs. old), daughter of Kent & , email: kheckenliv@...

I was contacted by two totally devoted parents, Kent &

Heckenlively, of a 5 yr old autistic girl, Jackolyn. For the past four

years they had explored essentially every avenue to help their

daughter, with cost, personal time and travel not being an inhibiting

factor. In the process they had become exceptionally knowledgeable

about the many approaches for treatment being attempted/employed.

However, they found only modest help for their daughter. When they read

my web page, the virus theory made sense to them. As one indicator,

when they looked at the food list giving the relative concentrations of

lysine and arginine, they quickly discovered that the foods listed as

high in arginine they had already discovered their daughter could not

tolerate.

They started with using my pig duodenum powder to help normalize her

digestive system and had some improvement. She was able to form some

sounds requiring the use of her tongue, which she had never been able

to do before. With her digestive system normalized, they thought the

next logical step would be to boost her nutritional intake. To do this

they added some of my broad-ranging multivitamin-mineral-etc.

supplement Sparx. They also added the application of transdermal (B-12

& folic acid) vitamins in DMSO. At first she reacted very

favorably, for a day. The next day she seemed to crash. I suggested

that they read my web page on Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Such an

energy-crash sequence was commonly experienced by them. On that web

page I suggested that the crash was due to the enhanced nutrition not

only enhancing energy, but that increased energy caused the dormant

herpes virus to wake up and start producing more herpes viruses. The

virus production would then catch up and consume the entire new source

of energy and beyond. The crash followed. At my suggestion, one lady

with CFS tried adding lysine first (and continually) and then added

high nutrition. The energy came with no crash.

I suggested that if the theory were correct, and applied to their

daughter, they would have to start by inhibiting the virus and then add

the nutrition to enhance energy (and mental function). It made sense to

them. They discussed it with her physician, and started with one of the

drugs for herpes (mentioned above) prescribed by her physician.

However, their daughter was allergic to it, developing a severe rash,

which went away only when they ceased using it. They switched to

lysine. She had no adverse reaction to it and it was successful.

Nutrition could then be added to her protocol and there was no crash.

They continued with the lysine, pig duodenum powder, Sparx and

transdermal vitamins. In a period of a couple of weeks she progressed

more than she had in the past four years. For example, she was always

unstable when she walked. She was so unstable that she could not step

over anything without falling down. They had worked on this for four

years with no significant change. Within a week her stability greatly

increased. She was able to step over things and rise to a standing

position directly from the floor.

However, she continued to have some diarrhea even though she was taking

the pig duodenum powder. This should not be the case if the diarrhea

was caused by duodenum not producing secretin. The pig duodenum is

quite effective for mitigating that problem. So, why the diarrhea?

According to the proposed theory, the herpes virus disrupts

neurological function (the brain) while the measles virus disrupts the

intestine. Is it possible that the increased nutrition also caused the

measles virus in the intestine to activate also? And, could this be the

cause of the diarrhea? The lysine would control the herpes virus but

would not control the measles virus.

At this point I decided to take the time to read a book which I had

recently purchased "Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, & Toxins,

Curing the Incurable" (2002) by E. Levy, MD, JD. I discovered on

pg. 66 it addressed the measles virus and on pg.80 it addressed herpes

viruses. Large doses of vitamin C were exceptionally successful in

treating all of them. Also, it appeared that intravenous application

was more effective than oral doses. I brought this to the attention of

Kent and . The primary difficulty is that it is difficult to get

an autistic child to take large doses of anything orally and it is

difficult to get them to remain still enough to perform regular

intravenous injections. Kent asked if it would be reasonable to use

DMSO to bring vitamin C through the skin. I told him that too much

vitamin C was needed. The DMSO approach would be effective only for

vitamins where small amounts were sufficient.

The Proposed Vitamin C, Lysine & Epsom Salt (CLES) Bath

After puzzling over the problem, I remembered that many people have

found soaking in a bath of Epsom Salt to be generally helpful. Epsom

Salt is magnesium sulfate and magnesium is an essential mineral that

plays a key role in energy production. Even though the skin is highly

resistant to absorption of magnesium sulfate, a bath in it exposes the

entire skin area of the body to it, so even a small permeability is

sufficient to allow a helpful dose to penetrate the skin and enter the

blood. Could this work for vitamin C? The skin should be more permeable

to it than Epsom Salt. If so, a bath in a solution of vitamin C could

result in enough getting through the skin to be effective and should

have the same highly beneficial effect controlling viruses

characteristic of an intravenous injection of it. One could also add

some lysine and Epsom Salt. Vitamin C is quite acidic so care would

have to be taken to either use buffered vitamin C or neutralize the

vitamin C with baking soda in a separate solution before adding it to

the bath water. Otherwise the bath water would be too acidic.

When I discussed this concept with Kent it made sense to him also. At my suggestion he tried it on himself first. His

bath water contained vitamin C (buffered with baking soda), a similar

quantity of Epsom Salt, and a small amount of lysine. I talked to him

the next day and he said he felt exceptionally good and the cold that

had started the previous day was now gone. That night he gave his

daughter a similar bath. Over the next two days the diarrhea she had

for the previous two weeks was gone.

My interpretation is the lysine, which she not only got in the bath,

but was also continuing to take orally, controlled the herpes virus.

The vitamin C controlled the measles virus in the intestine while added

even more control of the herpes virus (in the brain). The Epsom Salt

provided some extra magnesium, which enhances metabolic energy

production.

This introduces another thought. If the duodenum's inability to produce

secretin is caused by ongoing measles virus activity in the intestine,

the elimination/control of the virus with the bath treatment may make

the secretin treatment no longer necessary. The duodenum may gradually

heal and start to produce secretin again. This may also hold true for

the well-known food sensitivities that most autistic children

experience. They may be due to damage of the intestinal wall caused by

an ongoing measles virus infection. If so, they too may be mitigated by

this bath. We don't know the answers to these postulations yet.

To my knowledge this CLES bath treatment has never been tried before with an autistic child, or anyone else. However it

would appear to be safe to try as long as the person is not allergic to

the components and starts slowly watching for any unexpected adverse

reactions. If the virus theory is correct, it should be exceptionally

effective at controlling the herpes, measles and other viruses. It

would be the starting point, after which nutritional approaches to

enhance energy and mental function could be used while avoiding the

crash.

A Caution: I attended a medical conference a few years ago where the

use of large doses of vitamin C was discussed. One observation loomed

out to me. Studies were done where blood samples were obtained before

and during treatment and analyzed for vitamin C. Initially there was no

detectable level of vitamin C and the patient tolerated large doses. As

the treatment progressed, the vitamin C level in the blood increased

along with the patient feeling better. However, as the patients

recovered they could no longer tolerate the large doses of vitamin C.

They caused diarrhea. If the bath treatment is effective, I would

suspect a similar result. As a patient feels better, the baths may

result in too much introduction of vitamin C, causing diarrhea.

Two weeks later: The first thing that happened 's stools

quickly got firmer until for the first time in her life they became

completely normal, solid and well formed. Kent continued to give baths

to her every night, which eventually led to her having diarrhea. He

then backed off and the normal stools returned. He is now in the

process of discovering the best ongoing protocol.

We shall see how it progresses from here.

A Prediction:

Upon further study of the above referenced book on vitamin C

treatments, I feel confident the virus theory presented above is

correct and am making the prediction that the CLES bath will prove to be the most effective starting point for the treatment of autism. (this was written 3-4 years ago !!) It

is the only treatment designed to address the root, combination-virus

cause directly. If used early enough it should arrest the progression

before significant damage is done. At any stage it should allow

sequential treatment approaches to be more effective in reversing the

damage already done. Without it, such treatment approaches will be

attempting to overcome the active vital infections that caused the

initial autism. It has the unique feature of being easily applied at

any age, even to babies. In such cases specific protocols and monitors

will have to be developed since autistic children cannot communicate

verbally.

Potential Additional Applications:

If this discovery is found to be reproducible by others, validating its

credibility, it has numerous potential applications. It should apply to

the many additional diseases addressed in the Vitamin C book referenced

above. In addition I personally have arrived at the conclusion that

such viruses could have a causal relationship with other diseases such

as Arteriosclerosis, Heart Irregularities, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

& Fibromyalgia, Multiple Sclerosis, Rheumatoid Arthritis,

Parkinson's Disease, Lupus, Lyme's Disease (contributing factor),

Cancer & possibly even Alzheimer's Disease. If this is true, this

simple, safe and inexpensive bath treatment could have truly profound

implications.

An example: AIDS

The treatment of AIDS with vitamin C is thoroughly addressed in the

above referenced book on Vitamin C (pg 92). The results are truly

profound where large doses of vitamin C have been repeatedly effective

in arresting and even reversing AIDS. A significant aspect to this is

the use of large doses of intravenous vitamin C. This allows the use of

far larger doses than can be administered orally, which are limited by

the onset of diarrhea. A particularly interesting point is made on

pg. 99 that the vitamin C is not only toxic to infected cells but it

also appears to inhibit the replication of the viral DNA. It thus works

to stop the disease at its origin - encouraging it to remain dormant.

This feature would explain the broad ranging effectiveness against

viral diseases presented in the rest of the book. The CLES bath should

be as effective as any intravenous treatment. The bath concentration

and time of soaking can be adjusted to achieve any result. Thus the

CLES bath should represent an equally profound breakthrough in the

treatment of AIDS. Consistent with this I would like to refer the

reader to the book "The Virus Within, a Coming Epidemic" (2000) by

Regush. The results presented in this book show that the

co-infection of Human Herpes Virus 6 (HHV-6) is the primary cause of

the ensuing degredative process that leads to death. It is present in

every case and is much more damaging/toxic to cells than HIV. There are

even cases where the patients have died with the disease having all the

same features common to AIDS but with no evidence of the AIDS virus,

only HHV-6. This would be another explanation as to why vitamin C is so

effective. As discussed earlier, it has been established on pg. 66 of

the Vitamin C book that vitamin C is very effective in treating herpes

viruses.

I am posting this concept at this early stage for all to consider in

order to accelerate its evaluation. If is continues to have merit it

could not be introduced into the main stream of autism treatment (and

other diseases) too soon to stem the tide of the autism crisis in our

nation.

Feedback: Email sequence with Jon ("Jon "

On Sunday, November 30, 2003, at 12:43 PM, Jon wrote:

Dr. Gregg,

One of my AIDS clients just sent me a link to your website, and the

theory makes sense (I am not a doctor, but a self-educated health

researcher with some formal training in chemistry and physics). I was

especially intrigued by the story of the woman who stopped her herpes

outbreak with massive doses of lysine.

Lysine inhibits viral replication because it is a protease inhibitor

- viruses (and cancer) use protease enzymes to replicate, and lysine

(and proline) in large amounts in body fluids create decoys for the

protease molecules, neutralizing the protease so that it cannot affect

living tissue (e.g., collagen, which is primarily composed of

hydrolyzed lysine and proline). This is from the work of Matthias

Rath; you can find the data at his research website:

http://www.dr-rath-research.org. (Rath was the first to find the

protease connection to disease in 1991; from this discovery the

pharmaceutical industry began producing expensive, synthetic

amino-acid-like protease inhibitors for AIDS [of course] instead of

promoting the use of the cheap, natural amino acids lysine and proline.)

Your research and hypotheses of oxygen transport and the possible viral

cause of fibromyalgia, combined with Rath's protease inhibition

research, provide a potentially powerful treatment for a number of

dreaded and deadly chronic diseases.

Regards

Response Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 9:19 PM

,

Thank you for your very informative email. I did not know the mechanism

for lysine inhibiting viruses. I will take close look at your

referenced web page for the work of Matthias Rath. There is so much to

learn in this field I missed his work on the virus mechanism. It is

interesting to note that the book I reference on vitamin C would

indicate than vitamin C by itself has a similar, profound virus

inhibiting mechanism. It might even broader ranging than lysine. This

does make the combination of lysine and vitamin C look like rather good

partners for that task. I wonder if the two inhibiting mechanisms are

related.

On Sunday, November 30, 2003, at 07:10 PM, Jon wrote:

,

Thanks for your reply. I did forget to mention that there is an

interaction between vitamin C and lysine/proline; specifically that

collagen (and probably other connective tissue and the exterior matrix

around cells in general) is formed by lysine and proline becoming

hydroxylated by vitamin C. This interaction was the basis of Rath and

ing's breakthrough discovery of the root cause of cardiovascular

disease, and it was in the context of this research (at ing

Institute) that Rath discovered the protease-disease connection and the

hypothesis that vitamin C and lysine together could stop some disease

processes.

Rath found most recently that when these three (vitamin C, lysine,

proline) are combined with one of the phenolic compounds in green tea

(a selective chemotherapeutic agent), that the combination stops cancer

cells from attacking a collagen matrix in vitro - repeatability in

the laboratory. This combination is now being successfully used by

cancer patients to physically stop cancer. This then gives the body the

opportunity to kill the cancerous cells (and the green tea appears to

cause apoptosis of cancer cells as well).

The application of this technique to stop viral replication is touched

upon in Rath's book on cancer, which is available by free download at

the website I cited in my previous message, and also at the website

devoted specifically to cancer:

http://www.stopping-cancer-naturally.org.

It would be interesting to find out how/if increased oxygen transport (from MSM) might affect the success of Rath's approach.

Regards

Response Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:53 AM

,

I just picked up this email. I would like your permission to add it also to my web page.

Date: Mon, 1Dec2003 21:11:13

,

By all means take and reprint whatever you feel appropriate from my

emails. This kind of information is never, and should be never,

proprietary. Rath's work is extraordinary, and in a different kind of

world he would have earned the Nobel Prize in Medicine. He is relegated

and marginalized by the medical establishment and the pharma companies

to sell integrated vitamin combinations to support his very modest

research facility. He is a one-man dynamo, bringing the struggle

against the pharma companies to the International Criminal Court. He

convinced enough delegates to the Codex Alimentarius meetings to stop

what was eventually to become a worldwide ban of nutritional

supplements for use against disease (see

http://www.dr-rath-foundation.org).

Your contribution is important; it completes the hypotheses of

Levy (author of Vitamin C, Infections, Diseases, and Toxins - Curing

the Incurable) and others who have found that vitamin C (and other

antioxidants) effectively stopped oxidative stress.

You may also excerpt or link to my web pages for cancer, AIDS, cardiovascular disease, etc: http://www.cqs.com is my home page.

Regards

UPDATE 12/03

Intravenous Immunoglobulin (IVIG) treatments and CLES bath

implications: I have just learned more about a treatment I had heard

was successful in some cases, Intravenous Immunoglobulin (IVIG)

treatments. Immunoglobulin boosts the immune system and thus treats a

broad range of viruses. This is a very new treatment approach with

little published about it so far, but appears to have a high success

rate. Kent checked into it for his daughter. The treatment protocol

used by the doctor he contacted consisted of 5-6 intravenous injections

spaced one month apart (at a cost of approximately $5,000 each). A

six-month treatment protocol.

This answers many questions. It is very early in the use of the

treatment, but I will state the questions it answers for me and its

implications for the CLES bath.

1.

It supports the premise that the root cause of autism is a chronic viral infection.

2.

I have wondered why the measles virus

infection is chronic. The measles virus is a RNA virus. All retrovirus

are RNA viruses but not all RNA viruses are retroviruses. A retrovirus

creates a DNA template, which then is inserted in the cell's genome.

Thereafter the genetic structure of the cell itself provides the

template to continually produce the RNA of the virus and thus more

viruses. I have long suspected that even though the measles virus does

not always act as a retrovirus, there may have been a mutation that has

taken place in some that has converted them into a retrovirus. This

explains the chronic nature of the viral infection. If this has

happened, the only treatment is to eliminate the infected cells. The

only treatment I can think of to accomplish this is to start by

eliminating/deactivating the active viruses continually, as they are

produced, to prevent them from infecting more cells. If this process is

sustained long enough, the infected cells will eventually die off,

leaving only healthy cells. This explains why the sustained IVIG

treatments over several months are required. It is also very

encouraging because it demonstrates that this approach will be

effective. There are healthy cells that will produce more healthy cells

to replace the infected ones as long as they are not infected by more

viruses.

The retrovirus theory could explain how

the measles virus could have caused genetic damage that has disrupted

the duodenal cells ability to produce secretin. If the virus DNA

template is inserted in just the wrong place in the cells genetic

structure, the genes that are responsible for producing the system that

produces secretin might be deactivated.

3.

This has implications for the CLES

bath. If it is effective at controlling the viruses, as postulated, a

sustained use of it over approximately six months has a chance at

producing the same result - a permanent elimination of the measles

infection in the intestine. However, it also means that such a sustained treatment approach will be required.

I personally don't have the capability to demonstrate this since I am

not a medical doctor and do not treat patients. I thus can only hope

that someone who does treat autistic children will attempt to evaluate

the CLES bath concept. If it is effective it could provide a far less

expensive and more readily available treatment option than the IVIG

treatment.

UPDATE 2/04

An unexpected result from the CLES bath: She recovered her hearing!

From: "Vickie Bockenkamp" vickie@...

Date: Mon Feb 2, 2004 12:50:53 PM US/Pacific

To: dwgregg@...

Subject: CLES Bath update and my hearing loss correction

:

Back in 1992 I had surgery to correct a hearing loss in my left ear. I

was an outpatient at Alta Bates Hospital in Berkeley, CA, and was

assured that there would be no side affects to this day surgery and

would be feeling fine by the time I left the hospital at the end of the

day. Imagine my disappointment after the surgery when every time I

moved my head I vomited! My doctor would not discharge me--it was soon

discovered that I could not walk, and my equilibrium was just totally

off. I was finally discharged after three days when the nurse propped

me up in a chair, per my husband's request. "A hospital was no place to

get well!" I still could not walk on my own, and was crawling on my

hands and knees for three weeks. I was off work for over six weeks, and

when I was able to walk again without a wall for support, I had an 85

to 90% hearing loss in that ear! I was devastated, but learned to live

with it. When going back to have my hearing checked my doctor told me

he really didn't know what happened--this surgery had a 98% success

rate and I was the 2% it did not work for--his only theory was that I

may have had a virus that was dormant in my system and it had settled

in my left ear--far fetched, possibly--but we never really knew. It has

continued over the years to cause me distress. It seems to always be

full of fluid and many times painful, but when having it checked

repeatedly, was told everything was fine. I just now had a permanent

hearing loss in my left ear and was told to take good care of my right

ear. I was also left with Tinnitus and told that I would get used to it

after a while--I use the Tinnitus as a stress gauge to this day--when I

ear starts ringing at a louder tone, I know I have pushed myself too

far and back off on my activities and the tone drops dramatically--I

have never gotten use to it after 12 years.

After reviewing your information on your website under "Autism" and the

CLES bath, I tried a variation of this on myself. After talking to Kent

Heckenlively about the CLES bath and the results with his daughter, I

had lost my voice and was about to cancel out on a very important

project. I thought, "Hey, why not try this bath and see if I feel a bit

better?" When searching for the Epsom Salt at Longs drugs I became

discouraged because of my general fatigue, and purchased the "Queene

Helene" Batherapy bath liquid. (Like Epsom Salt, its primary salt is

magnesium sulfate) I crushed 4000 mg of Vitamin C with 1000 mg of

L-Lysine and added it to a tub of water with 2 oz's of the Queene

Helene Batherapy liquid. I crawled in the tub for about 45 minutes to

an hour--long enough to get into a good book! It was very relaxing

and not uncomfortable at all. Imagine my amazement when I got out of

the tub and went to get into bed and said to my husband, "my body feels

kind of tingly, but...." then I stopped as he looked at me in

amazement--my voice was back! My eyes began to water and my nose began

to run non-stop for almost an hour and a half but I could talk. (My

husband said, "oh no, quiet time is over!")

The next day this ailment that I had was now in my eyes and I was still

terribly congested. I decided to kick the CLES bath up a notch, so I

did 2oz of the Queene Helene batherapy liquid, 8000 mg of vitamin C

and 2000 mg of L-Lysine--again I soaked for about 45 minutes to an hour.

Again the response was one of instant congestion relief, and again I

slept well. The following morning I felt okay and went to work. By mid

day I was starting to slow down and decided to go home and take a

little nap. Well, I woke from the nap feeling a general body ache with

flu like symptoms, aching all over and generally sluggish. I decided to

do another bath, and this time I used another 2 oz of the Queene Helene batherapy liquid, 10,000 mg of Vitamin C and 3000 of L-Lysine.

After my afternoon bath, I just wanted to sleep and went in and lay

down for another nap--my husband came in and was talking on the phone,

and I ask him to quiet down. I then commented that there was a humming

sound coming from the TV. My husband then came in the room and ask me

what was wrong, and why was I so sensitive all of a sudden. As I rolled

over on my pillow it occurred to me that I could hear the sound of the

pillow case on my ear and the side of my head. My hearing had been

restored--within a few hours of taking the CLES bath. I have trying to

adjust to my new found hearing over the past few days, and it has been

a bit overwhelming at times. I woke this morning to the sound of the

rain and could hardly believe it. My ears are still full of fluid, and

I am still congested from whatever was moving through my system, but I

can hear the dial tone on the phone in my left ear, something I could

not do for years, and I can hear someone talking on my left side. I

cannot tell you how many times over the years people have said to me,

"what's the matter with you, are you deaf?" In the line at the grocery

store when someone is trying to talk to me and I cannot hear them, or

at an airport. I did not have an "out of order" sign on my left ear--so

people did not realize that I had a hearing loss.

We also discussed the possibility of adding a low dose of zinc to

the mixture and so I tried another bath with the Queene Helene

batherapy, 10,000 mg of Vitamin C and 3000 of L-lysine with 50 mg of

zinc. I could not sleep that night and felt like I had the energy

of Wonderwoman. My left ear starting ringing at a very high frequency

and I attempted to drowned out the sound by leaving the TV on all night

and louder than normal--it was terrible. After finally falling asleep

at around 3:30AM--I woke around 6:00AM and the ringing had subsided

substantially. (I would not recommend this combination for anyone with

Tinnitus!)

My point to this whole story is that if there is a connection with

nutrition and dormant virus's in the system, whether it has settled in

the gut, or as in my case, in my left ear--this may be a very viable

treatment. I contacted one of my clients who has an autistic son,

who has been having major behavioral management issues with him after

doing an AIT (sound therapy program) over the holidays. The practioners

comments where that sometimes that happened, so what do we do about

about? It appeared as though nothing. I ask her to try the CLES bath

with her son, and she came in to report that he was far calmer and more

settled after doing the bath. We are going to continue with the baths

three times a week to see what affect this will have on him, and I will

keep you posted.

Sincerely,

Vickie Bockenkamp

Power Tools for Learning

UPDATE 4/04

A report from a mother using Pig Duodenum Powder (PDP) as a source of secretin for her autistic son.

From Aldrene in Hawaii

Aldrene has an eight-year-old autistic son and has recently explored

using pig duodenum powder (PDP) as a source of secretin - starting in

November 2003. In the past she had success first using an intravenous

source and then a trans=dermal source and both have now become

unavailable. She found them to be very effective in helping her son.

When they became unavailable and her doctor had no replacement, she

decided to try the PDP offered on my product page. She discovered that

it was equivalently effective after she developed a protocol that was

right for him.

Her Successful Protocol: She stirred the PDP into applesauce and fed it

to him three times a day. Once in the morning before breakfast, once

after school, and once in the evening before bed along with a fruit

snack. She started with a measured tablespoon full of PDP for each

serving. However she found that it made him a bit hyper. She then

reduced it to 1/2 a measured tablespoon of PDP for each serving and it

seemed about right. It kept him stable. She said if she missed even one

serving his behavior became "spacey".

At the rate she was using the PDP, one container lasted her about three months. Thus, her cost was about $20/month.

UPDATE 7/26/04

An email from another mother using Pig Duodenum Powder (PDP) as a source of secretin for her autistic son.

Dear Dr. Gregg,

Just thought I would share a little of what I observed with Duncan following the administration of PDS (pig duodenal substance).

A little history:

Duncan is 10 years old. He was diagnosed with autism when he was almost

5 years old. We have tried to follow the DAN protocol and eventually

hooked up with Dr. Green.

We have been seeing Dr. A. Green III in Oregon City, Oregon since

August of 2002. He offered Secretin injections (IV), which we tried.

The biggest benefit we noticed was that Duncan started sleeping all

night on a regular basis. This seemed to be the case for approx. 5

weeks, at which time Duncan would begin waking in the night again. We

continued the injections every 1-2 months, as we were able until

December of 2003. In January of 2004 I told Dr. Green that we hadn't

been getting the same results the past 2 months (Duncan sleeping all

night) that we previously had gotten with the Secretin. He informed me

that the porcine-type of Secretin had become unavailable starting in

November of 2003 and they had been using synthetic Secretin. We

discontinued the IV Secretin because we felt the benefit we observed

wasn't there anymore. Dr. Green suggested that there was another type

of Secretin available (via pig duodenum) that seemed helpful to some,

and shared Gregg's phone number. I purchased a bottle of the PDS

to try.

February 2004:

Dose: I wasn't sure how much or how to administer the PDS. So I tried

different things, starting with the suggestions on the Krysalis web

page. I started with 1/2 T (1-1/2 teaspoons) per meal. After 2 days

Duncan became so energetic (a little hyper) I decided to cut back on

the dose. After much experimentation we found that 1/4 tsp. per meal

was about right. More than that seemed to get him a little "too happy".

He did begin sleeping at night again (within 2 days) and I noticed the

consistency of his stools changed (within one day) to be much more

compact and slightly darker. In the following 2-3 weeks Duncan's

teacher made the remark that Duncan seems to be "whipping through" his

school work. She usually has had to prompt and redirect in protracted

sessions to get him to finish his math and spelling. Now he was

finishing before everyone else. She was not aware that I had changed

anything at home.

We have continued to enjoy the benefits of the PDS. Duncan does still

have some difficulty with dysbiosis, but the fact that his toileting is

much more regular, he's sleeping at night and continuing to demonstrate

his learning ability better has made me a believer that the PDS is a

positive contribution to his gut and his brain!

Note: I do not heat up the PDS. I store the big bottle in a deep freeze

and take out a small Tupperware amount at a time. I keep this smaller

container in my freezer in the kitchen and get my doses for each meal

out of that. I use a packed _ tsp. and mix it with coconut butter (at

room temp. this has a consistency of shortening) I have to kind of

"smoosh" it around to get it completely mixed and then I have Duncan

take it. The coconut butter kind of masks the flavor of the PDS

briefly. He drinks lots of water or diluted juice following that to get

it down. He doesn't particularly like it, but he is very cooperative

about taking it.

I hope this is useful information. I appreciate the opportunity to try the PDS. Thank-you!

Sandi Frood