RE: Episco-pagans

[Guest guest]

Sara,

I wouldn't put this into public distribution, but as I've said on several

occasions on this list over the past few years, I believe that we who are in

liturgical, orthodox (more or less) traditions need to respect and honor the

pagan

shadow we carry. As a point of fact, so many Christian celebrations had

their origin in pagan traditions, Christmas being the one best known. Honor

your

earthy, pagan side. Consider the equinoxes and solstices as times to

celebrate. I can't help but think that this will enhance your experience of the

sacramental life. I'm saying be open to life and what it has to offer.

God bless!

Gene

[Guest guest]

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Whitlow

> Sometimes I feel desolate because I don't seem to belong

> anywhere (in the religious arena) - and yet, what an

> interesting banquet Godde has put before us! Maybe a little

> bit of picking & choosing is healthy. My own spirituality

> has been greatly enriched by Buddhist and Hindu traditions...

> Still musing....

I hear that! It's so easy to feel desolate and lonely when you keep

going from collective to collective and don't find a 100% " perfect fit "

anywhere. Honestly, I'm not sure how anyone does find that perfect fit,

without repressing or rejecting something of his/her own individuality -

but that's just my perspective on it, because it's something I've never

been able to do myself.

But along with that desolation comes a great freedom - the freedom to

(as you say) pick and choose what works for you and what doesn't, to

find what resonates with your own soul and experience... and, one hopes,

the grace to allow others to do the same.

Kione

[Guest guest]

, et al,

I think it really depends upon how you define " pick and mix " . Jung, IMO, was

not about the kind of scattered " beliefs " which are so prevalent amongst

New-Agers (indeed, he ranted against such!) - but, he truly affirmed that

one should find one's own spirituality, and then not be turned off it by the

orthodoxy of one's own tradition.

For my own experience, I am Jewish and proud of it, married to a " Gentile "

for lack of a better word and proud of that, and fully comfortable with the

spirituality which I and we have evolved, separately and together. But, I

would differentiate that from a kind of " Californian " pan-everything, if

that makes sense. And, before Marilyn and several others write in, I love

California (and am returning in January).

fa

[Guest guest]

Sara -

I don't know if I can answer your question, but I surely resonate with your

feelings. I went to an Episcopal Church this morning (I'm a born-and-raised

Episcopalian), and I felt like I should be dusting the cobwebs off of everyone,

especially the priest! Then, this afternoon, I went to a meeting of the local

" gaia community " (pagan). This was not really satisfying to me either....It

seemed so - well - weird and haphazard (and, according to Phoebe, not truly

pagan because it seemed to be the " pick and choose " variety). I, too, love

things Celtic and am teaching a class in Celtic spirituality in a couple of

weeks. Also love ph and all writers with Jungian/spiritual

leanings, Fox, many feminist theologains, Rupert Sheldrake,

Swimme, Elaine Pagels.. ( I have read Pagels' Beyond Belief and it is

fascinating!) The most enjoyable book I have read on Wicca is Starhawk's Spiral

Dance. I would stop going to church, but something deep in me needs the ritual

and symbolism/mythology of Christianity. Perhaps my Celtic ancestry resonates

with the Wheel of the Year and closeness to nature that is found in the

neo-pagan movement. And, the Celts did a pretty good job of combining their

native spirituality with that of Christianity. If you have not read

Fox's Original Blessing, I would recommend it. He was, you may already know, a

Catholic priest who was silenced by the Vatican and later became Episcopalian.

He is a master of ritual, combining traditional elements of holy communion with

relevant science, feminism, and a reverence for nature and " natural "

spirituality.

Sometimes I feel desolate because I don't seem to belong anywhere (in the

religious arena) - and yet, what an interesting banquet Godde has put before us!

Maybe a little bit of picking & choosing is healthy. My own spirituality has

been greatly enriched by Buddhist and Hindu traditions...

Still musing....

Episco-pagans

I am intrigued with this and I really feel I am one! But I need to

clarify/explain it a bit. I feel close to the Celts and to the Earth and to all

the things ph talks about. And yet I still love/ hate (feel empty)

with my church (Episcopal.)

Could Alice or some of you please explain what this new term might mean for

some of us? It feels like a boost of energy and life into a worn out system. (At

least for me.)

Episco- Pagan! I like that and I want to know why it resonates so strongly

with me.

Sara

[Guest guest]

I am also a cradle Episcopalian, and active in my parish. It isn't a

perfect fit, and I've taken an occasional vacation from it, but it does

feel like home. The parish is named for a Celtic saint, Aidan, sent

from Iona to Christianize Northumbria (which was in dire need of some

kind of help, as pillage and plunder were the order of the day). I've

written a short bio of him for my parish website (you can check out the

song, too, if you like)

http://www.saintaidan.org/aidan.html

There definitely is something in a name, as we've taken Aidan and Celtic

Christianity seriously. It is evident both in the liturgy and in the

way the parish is organized. Matt Fox would be happy at St. Aidan's

(has been there). Alice would probably be happy at St. Aidan's! The

pagan, earth-centered shadow isn't all that much in shadow there -- it's

always visible, and sometimes very visible. I definitely don't feel that

I'm " turned empty away. "

Yet I do need something more. Christianity, even in its Anglican

expression ;-) , is too confining (even in a congregation that

noticeably drops out during parts of the Nicene Creed). The

Belief-o-Mat gave me 100% on Neo-Pagan, followed by liberal Quaker, UU

and Reform Judaism. Liberal Protestant clocked in at 77%. (Conservative

Christian and JW came in dead last, whew!)

I just had a blessing of my new apartment. As I wrestled with what I

wanted my apartment to be, and thus what the blessing should express, I

chose to create a ritual that drew primarily from Celtic tradition, with

some Native American material (coming from my study of shamanism and

Jungian therapy). I did this rather than use the more " Episcopalian "

style I'd initially planned. It was deeply satisfying and joyous -- the

" something more " that I needed. And I may still let the Anglicans at

it, too, as I'd like us to celebrate the Eucharist here.

I feel at ease with where I am. It doesn't seem like bits and pieces,

the way much New Age spirituality does. My dreams appear to support this

way of journeying. That's all I can ask.

Marilyn

--

" We cannot change anything until we accept it. Condemnation does not liberate,

it oppresses. " ~ C. G. Jung

[Guest guest]

,

I'm in San Francisco, which has been foggy all day.

I'll be glad to send you my house blessing off list. Also to anyone

else interested -- just send me an e-mail so we don't use up our

precious posts! (I've saved it in rich text format, which should work

for everyone.)

Peace,

Marilyn

--

" We cannot change anything until we accept it. Condemnation does not liberate,

it oppresses. " ~ C. G. Jung

[Guest guest]

Marilyn -

Thank you for your input...Where do you live?

I have been wanting to write a house blessing for my new home - would you be

willing to share some of what you created for your home?

Namaste

Re: Episco-pagans

I am also a cradle Episcopalian, and active in my parish. It isn't a

perfect fit, and I've taken an occasional vacation from it, but it does

feel like home. The parish is named for a Celtic saint, Aidan, sent

from Iona to Christianize Northumbria (which was in dire need of some

kind of help, as pillage and plunder were the order of the day). I've

written a short bio of him for my parish website (you can check out the

song, too, if you like)

http://www.saintaidan.org/aidan.html

There definitely is something in a name, as we've taken Aidan and Celtic

Christianity seriously. It is evident both in the liturgy and in the

way the parish is organized. Matt Fox would be happy at St. Aidan's

(has been there). Alice would probably be happy at St. Aidan's! The

pagan, earth-centered shadow isn't all that much in shadow there -- it's

always visible, and sometimes very visible. I definitely don't feel that

I'm " turned empty away. "

Yet I do need something more. Christianity, even in its Anglican

expression ;-) , is too confining (even in a congregation that

noticeably drops out during parts of the Nicene Creed). The

Belief-o-Mat gave me 100% on Neo-Pagan, followed by liberal Quaker, UU

and Reform Judaism. Liberal Protestant clocked in at 77%. (Conservative

Christian and JW came in dead last, whew!)

I just had a blessing of my new apartment. As I wrestled with what I

wanted my apartment to be, and thus what the blessing should express, I

chose to create a ritual that drew primarily from Celtic tradition, with

some Native American material (coming from my study of shamanism and

Jungian therapy). I did this rather than use the more " Episcopalian "

style I'd initially planned. It was deeply satisfying and joyous -- the

" something more " that I needed. And I may still let the Anglicans at

it, too, as I'd like us to celebrate the Eucharist here.

I feel at ease with where I am. It doesn't seem like bits and pieces,

the way much New Age spirituality does. My dreams appear to support this

way of journeying. That's all I can ask.

Marilyn

--

" We cannot change anything until we accept it. Condemnation does not liberate,

it oppresses. " ~ C. G. Jung

[Guest guest]

Gene -

I agree with you about honoring our " pagan shadow. " And yes, we owe quite a bit

of our Christian liturgy and mythology to earlier traditions. That can only

enrich us.

Re: Episco-pagans

Sara,

I wouldn't put this into public distribution, but as I've said on several

occasions on this list over the past few years, I believe that we who are in

liturgical, orthodox (more or less) traditions need to respect and honor the

pagan

shadow we carry. As a point of fact, so many Christian celebrations had

their origin in pagan traditions, Christmas being the one best known. Honor

your

earthy, pagan side. Consider the equinoxes and solstices as times to

celebrate. I can't help but think that this will enhance your experience of

the

sacramental life. I'm saying be open to life and what it has to offer.

God bless!

Gene

[Guest guest]

Marilyn -

My e-mail is lwhitlow@...

Thanks!

Re: Episco-pagans

,

I'm in San Francisco, which has been foggy all day.

I'll be glad to send you my house blessing off list. Also to anyone

else interested -- just send me an e-mail so we don't use up our

precious posts! (I've saved it in rich text format, which should work

for everyone.)

Peace,

Marilyn

--

" We cannot change anything until we accept it. Condemnation does not liberate,

it oppresses. " ~ C. G. Jung

[Guest guest]

and others unhappy in the collective,

If you get unhappy enough, one day you will decide that unhappiness is an

option and begin to think about leaving the organized religion. Not the

faith, or the hope, but the way of expressing it.

One of the hardest things I ever did, but if the pain is bad enough you will

have no option, not if you want joy in your in your spiritual life and

authenticity. That is what Jung was speaking about. Some people at some time

find they must leave the collective and go out in their own. Not leave what

they hold sacred, but the method of showing it and feeling it.And the warm

fuzziness of community.

It's cold out there, but perhaps this is necessary for your spiritual

well-being. I got to the point that I cried after Mass every time. If one

feels one no longer belongs,it might be a symptom that it was time to take

one's spirituality back from the collective and go out " in west field " by

oneself.

Whatever form of worship communally no longer satisfies, its time to get

out, or it will stunt your growth. The peace is great and wonderful out

here, but I do get very nostalgic for the ritual,and I miss the community. I

must admit. It isn't easy , but for many of us it is necessary.

Just my personal assessment of what Jung said on the subject and my own

experience.

Toni.

To: <JUNG-FIRE >

Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:35 PM

Subject: RE: Episco-pagans

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Whitlow

>

> > Sometimes I feel desolate because I don't seem to belong

> > anywhere (in the religious arena) - and yet, what an

> > interesting banquet Godde has put before us! Maybe a little

> > bit of picking & choosing is healthy. My own spirituality

> > has been greatly enriched by Buddhist and Hindu traditions...

> > Still musing....

>

> I hear that! It's so easy to feel desolate and lonely when you keep

> going from collective to collective and don't find a 100% " perfect fit "

> anywhere. Honestly, I'm not sure how anyone does find that perfect fit,

> without repressing or rejecting something of his/her own individuality -

> but that's just my perspective on it, because it's something I've never

> been able to do myself.

>

> But along with that desolation comes a great freedom - the freedom to

> (as you say) pick and choose what works for you and what doesn't, to

> find what resonates with your own soul and experience... and, one hopes,

> the grace to allow others to do the same.

>

> Kione

>

>

>

>

> " Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby beings

may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering. "

>

> H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Marilyn, et al,

Picking and choosing your own expressions of spirituality while remaining

within an established and historic tradition is O.K. in my book. The main thing

in finding and following your own path is determining whether you're indulging

your own ego or whether it's one laid down by the Self.

Gene Baker