Another doctor visit

[Guest guest]

Good morning friends,

Well,Ron and I were both at the doctor yesterday. He put Ron on Z-

Pak for a virus he has (really bad chest congestion & cough) and said

I have the same thing, only mine is clearing up, so no antibiotic

(especially since I just got off one a week ago!) He gave me a

thorough exam, and I'm going back to the hospital Thursday for more

ultrasounds of my breasts and mri of hands. He counted all the lumps

on my body and stopped at 74. He mentioned something

like " neurofibro something " and is referring me to the IU

rheumatology center; I have an appointment in May, remarkably quick

for that place. He feels that all my symptoms put together, the

lumps, joint pain, reddening of hands and face, itchy patches on my

back and hips, ridged and warped nails, bruising, will make sense to

them. He also started me on tetracycline and increased the Bextra.

Yesterday I literally could not raise either leg to get up on the

examining table as my hip and knee joints are that stiff, and this

was at 3 PM!

That's it in a nutshell (and I guess I am the nut!) At least he made

me feel that I am not a hypochondriac nutcase, and said he really

feels bad that I have not been given any relief or good answers. He

was very open, though, that whatever it is probably is not curable,

but should be treatable with something that will relieve the

symptoms. He's also not going to refer anyone else to the rheumy I

went to.

Our third little sweetie, Randy, is coming home tomorrow! His weight

is over 4 lb. now, and he is eating well. The babies at home are

only waking up at 12 and 4, so at least the kids are getting some

rest. I will go out this afternoon and do some housecleaning &

laundry for them, and if Ron feels better he will take TJ outside to

play. Duane built TJ a sandbox, so the boys can play with their cars.

Let's all pray that these new babies, and the rest of the world, wake

up to a safer world soon.

Peace and grace,

Judi

[Guest guest]

Barb,

You wrote:

>

>... Would you have the x-ray?

I would if the doctor thought it had a chance of ruling out what is worrying

you. But then, I have been a radiation safety officer for most of my working

career.

> The chest x-ray is one of the lowest radiation exposure medical examinations

performed today. The effective radiation dose from this procedure is about 0.1

mSv, which is about the same as the average person receives from background

radiation in 10 days.

This is slightly misleading, since risk is also dose-rate dependent. There is

much more effect in the same dose that occurs in less than a second than in one

spread out over 10 days. OTOH, this is still a very small dose.

If you are in the early stages of Hashi's or have partial thyroid function,

avoiding goitrogens will reduce the burden on the thyroid slightly. This has

been shown to slow the progression, but only by a little. This is not

necessarily a good thing, because you are replacing the thyroid function with

your prescription anyway, and the sooner the gland is destroyed, the soon the

variability will cease. Once the thyroid is destroyed, goitrogens do not matter

much. Soy can attack the medication in your blood, but the effect is tiny. You

would have to eat a LOT of the wrong kind of soy. So, moderation makes sense.

>

> ... He said no, because the endo would have pickked it up in a heartbeat, if

that were the case.

I doubt that any of the endocrinologists who have treated my son would have been

so confident. They all ordered tests. The tests came back negative, but four

doctors turned to tests, rather than rely exclusively on their powers of

observation.

> Here's one of those " out there " questions. If the thyroid of a Hashimoto's

patient is removed, does the person still have an autoimmune disease? ...

This is kind of a " If a tree falls in the woods, ... " type question.

Technically, the answer is yes. Your immune system remains primed to attack your

own thyroid tissue. Practically, the antibodies subside and soon all trace of

the condition disappears, except, of course, for the the missing thyroid

function.

> And, do the antibodies subside, or do they attack something else?...

They are targeted specifically for certain thyroid proteins. Once they have no

targets, production of the antibodies shut down. However, you are at increased

risk for other autoimmune diseases until you reach three of them. Nobody knows

why autoimmunes come in threes.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/18/2011 5:41:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

gumboyaya@... writes:

>... Would you have the x-ray?

I would if the doctor thought it had a chance of ruling out what is

worrying you. But then, I have been a radiation safety officer for most of my

working career.

Thank you Chuck. I never dreamed there was a possibility I would have

lung Cancer. For that reason, I wasn't worried about it at all. By that I

don't mean that it's not possible. After the appointment I googled if

swelling around the base of the neck could be a symptom of lung Cancer, or even

breast Cancer. I don't see any connection between the swelling where I have

it, and either of those diseases. The only references I saw were to

swollen lymph glands, which I don't have. It makes me wonder if the doctor

just

offered the chest x-ray because he didn't know what else to say. I agree

that it's safe enough, but don't understand why he would suggest it. If

there is a valid reason for having it I will. Do you know of one?

" Once the thyroid is destroyed, goitrogens do not matter much. Soy can

attack the medication in your blood, but the effect is tiny. You would have to

eat a LOT of the wrong kind of soy. So, moderation makes sense. "

Well that's good to know, since I like to eat, and don't cook nearly as

much as I used to. The thought of making everything from scratch, to avoid

soy is not appealing. If it would make this go away, I would definitely do

it though. Since that's not going to happen, moderation sounds good to me.

" I doubt that any of the endocrinologists who have treated my son would

have been so confident. They all ordered tests. The tests came back negative,

but four doctors turned to tests, rather than rely exclusively on their

powers of observation. "

I'm glad to know your son's doctors did a good job of diagnosing his

illness, and the tests came back negative. It does seem arrogant to just

assume

based on observation alone.

" They are targeted specifically for certain thyroid proteins. Once they

have no targets, production of the antibodies shut down. However, you are at

increased risk for other autoimmune diseases until you reach three of them.

"

That's interesting. I asked the doctor today if I was at a higher risk

for other autoimmune diseases since I have Hashimoto's, and he said only a

very slight risk. He also said at a place like The Mayo Clinic, they want to

know if you have Hashimoto's, but we don't really care here, since we

treat it the same way. What do you think of that?

I would like to thank everyone here again for all the information and

support you share. A guy I know was recently diagnosed with Hypothyroidism.

He called to ask me some questions because a mutual friend told him I had

received the same diagnosis. He kept asking questions, and I kept answering

them. He said, " Boy you really know a lot about this. " I had to laugh,

because I know so little, but what I do know I learned here. The members of

the group have provided valuable information about personal experiences, as

well as links to pertinent information on-line. Reading posts and asking

questions here has been educational, although there is still much to learn.

Barb

[Guest guest]

Yes, two thoughts. Your symptoms are not what we usually see with what you're

taking.

I would go see a  Cardiologist and an Oncologist. I would have Xrays or an MRI

to finally

find out exactly is the cause of the swelling.

 

We are not doctors on this group. We're patients like you, and some of us are

more knowledgeable about the problems and some less. In any case I think you

need to see

doctors who specialize.

 

 

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: H <macbarb0503@...>

Subject: Another Doctor Visit

hypothyroidism

Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2011, 11:43 AM

Hi Everyone,

I went to the internist because of the white coating and red areas on my tongue,

and while I was there showed him the swelling at the base of my neck, since it

appeared in December long after I last saw him.  He said it could be a fungus on

my tongue, and gave me a prescription for some type of mouthwash.   When I asked

him about the neck swelling, he said he has women in his office at least four or

five times a year with the same thing.  When I asked what would cause it, there

was no answer.  He said if I was concerned he could do a chest x-ray to check

for a tumor.  When I asked him what kind he said, " a lung cancer tumor, but you

don't smoke, and 99.9% of the time the x-ray comes back normal. "   What I read

said a chest x-ray is low in radiation.  He is proabably right that my risk of

lung cancer is low, however I think of the wife of Reeves who didn't

smoke either, and was a young woman.  To me the swelling is symptom, and there

must be a cause.  Would you have the x-ray? 

" There is always a slight chance of cancer from excessive exposure to radiation.

However, the benefit of an accurate diagnosis far outweighs the risk.

The chest x-ray is one of the lowest radiation exposure medical examinations

performed today. The effective radiation dose from this procedure is about 0.1

mSv, which is about the same as the average person receives from background

radiation in 10 days. See the Safety page (www.RadiologyInfo.org/en/safety/) for

more information about radiation dose. "

http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=chestrad

Then we had a discussion about the fact that my symptoms are not consistent with

underactive thyroid.  In August I wore size 6 slacks and they were snug.  Now

I'm wearing size 4, and they are loose.  Even though I'm probably only six

pounds lighter than I was in August, I can't wear the clothes I wore then.  It

shows in the way my clothes fit more than on the scale.  His answer to this was

that lots of  older women lose weight, and it's not uncommon to have opposite

symptoms.  When I asked him about soy, gluten, and goitrogens, he said I could

eat anything I want.  The endo at the Mayo Clinic said the same thing, but added

the words in moderation.

The next topic of concern was the elevated heart rate.  It was 96 when I was in

his office.   Since I'm not slowing down, taking naps, or sleeping better, but

am struggling to keep from losing weight rather than gaining while taking such a

small dose of medicine, I asked if there could be a problem with the pituitary

gland or the adrenals.  He said no, because the endo would have pickked it up in

a heartbeat, if that were the case.  He also said I don't have to take the

medicine if I don't want to.  I wasn't complaining about taking it, just saying

it's weird that such a small dose of Levothyroxin (25 mcg) made the TSH go from

over 8 to barely above zero.  The Mayo Clinic doctor cut it back to 12.5 mcg

becaue of my hyper symptoms and because he didn't like to see the TSH as low as

it had been after taking 25 mcg for a while.  But, the lower dose didn't slow my

heart rate down and my blood pressure was higher than usual too.

My last question was if there was a way to decrease the size of my thyroid, or

keep it from growing.   I am not eating goitrogens and am trying to eliminate

soy.  That's hard to do!  He said if you have trouble swallowing, that's usually

when they recommend surgery to take it out.  Notice, he didn't answer the

question. Here's one of those " out there " questions.  If the thyroid of a

Hashimoto's patient is removed, does the person still have an autoimmune

disease?  And, do the antibodies subside, or do they attack something else?  The

doctor said what I already knew, that if I eventually have surgery I'll be on

thyroid medicine for the rest of my life, but since I will be anyway, he didn't

think it would make much difference.

Any thoughts?

Barb

[Guest guest]

Chuck what are the usual or most prevalent other auto immune illnesses that come

along in the

group of three.?

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

>... Would you have the x-ray? 

I would if the doctor thought it had a chance of ruling out what is worrying

you. But then, I have been a radiation safety officer for most of my working

career.

> The chest x-ray is one of the lowest radiation exposure medical examinations

performed today. The effective radiation dose from this procedure is about 0.1

mSv, which is about the same as the average person receives from background

radiation in 10 days.

This is slightly misleading, since risk is also dose-rate dependent. There is

much more effect in the same dose that occurs in less than a second than in one

spread out over 10 days. OTOH, this is still a very small dose.

If you are in the early stages of Hashi's or have partial thyroid function,

avoiding goitrogens will reduce the burden on the thyroid slightly. This has

been shown to slow the progression, but only by a little. This is not

necessarily a good thing, because you are replacing the thyroid function with

your prescription anyway, and the sooner the gland is destroyed, the soon the

variability will cease. Once the thyroid is destroyed, goitrogens do not matter

much. Soy can attack the medication in your blood, but the effect is tiny. You

would have to eat a LOT of the wrong kind of soy. So, moderation makes sense.

> 

> ... He said no, because the endo would have pickked it up in a heartbeat, if

that were the case. 

I doubt that any of the endocrinologists who have treated my son would have been

so confident. They all ordered tests. The tests came back negative, but four

doctors turned to tests, rather than rely exclusively on their powers of

observation.

>  Here's one of those " out there " questions.  If the thyroid of a Hashimoto's

patient is removed, does the person still have an autoimmune disease? ...

This is kind of a " If a tree falls in the woods, ... " type question.

Technically, the answer is yes. Your immune system remains primed to attack your

own thyroid tissue. Practically, the antibodies subside and soon all trace of

the condition disappears, except, of course, for the the missing thyroid

function.

>  And, do the antibodies subside, or do they attack something else?...

They are targeted specifically for certain thyroid proteins. Once they have no

targets, production of the antibodies shut down. However, you are at increased

risk for other autoimmune diseases until you reach three of them. Nobody knows

why autoimmunes come in threes.

Chuck

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the information Roni. I don't know if I can see a Cardiologist

or an Oncologist, without being referred by my Internist. I also didn't

know a person who hasn't been diagnosed with Cancer could see

an Oncologist. Since I saw my doctor yesterday and all he recommended was a

chest x-ray, I'm going for that today. They also have a walk-in clinic

where I can go, to get a different doctor to look at me.

Last night I noticed another disturbing symptom. I wasn't looking for it.

It was another case of doing a routine thing, getting ready for bed, and

thinking what the heck is that? I have a swollen area over my cheek bone,

about the size of a nickel. I couldn't believe my eyes! It's no better

this morning, and I noticed the other side is swollen too, but not nearly as

much. I took a Benadryl and also tried using a wet teabag with a wet cold

compress over it. That works great for swollen, bloodshot eyes. It's an

old home remedy my Grandma told me about years ago, when I had a respiratory

infection with puffy bloodshot eyes just before my wedding. It worked like

a miracle. The swelling went down and the redness disappeared. However, it

had no affect on this.

I have read that Hashimoto's can cause puffiness, or swelling of the face,

but this isn't general overall swelling. It's one specific area on both

sides of my face. I feel like I'm turning into a freak. My doctors don't

seem to be concerned about the swelling they have seen. Maybe they think it

is typical of swelling with Hashimoto's. My face was somewhat

puffy yesterday when I was at the doctor's office, but if I had

these swollen areas over the cheekbones, I didn't notice, and he didn't say

anything about it. He did ask if I was going back to the endo, and I said

yes in March. I got the impression he wants me to go there because

he doesn't have a clue about thyroid problems, other than to prescribe a

pill if it's under active and monitor the blood work.

Because of preparing for different tests I had been off of the Levothyroxin

about seven weeks, with the exception of five days, when my doctor here told

me to take it again after the blood test he had ordered. Five days later

the Mayo Cinic called and told me to stop. I've only been back on it for

less than two weeks, and was taking the half pill. Now I'm wondering if

that might have something to do with this latest swelling, because I wasn't

actually being treated for weeks, since I wasn't taking the pills. This

morning I took a whole pill again, since the reduced dose did nothing to

lower my heartrate. It's as fast or faster than it was while I was taking

the whole pill.

I know you're not doctors, but I appreciate your suggestions. It's just too

bad my doctors don't seem the least bit interested in getting to the root of

what is going on. I don't know where to turn. Maybe I'll call the Mayo

Clinic back and tell them about the additional symptoms, but I don't know if

that will do any good either.

Barb

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:47 AM, Roni Molin <matchermaam@...> wrote:

>

>

> Yes, two thoughts. Your symptoms are not what we usually see with what

> you're taking.

> I would go see a Cardiologist and an Oncologist. I would have Xrays or an

> MRI to finally

> find out exactly is the cause of the swelling.

>

> We are not doctors on this group. We're patients like you, and some of us

> are more knowledgeable about the problems and some less. In any case I think

> you need to see

> doctors who specialize.

>

>

>

> <>Roni

> Immortality exists!

> It's called knowledge!

>

> Just because something isn't seen

> doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

>

>

> From: H <macbarb0503@... <macbarb0503%40aol.com>>

> Subject: Another Doctor Visit

> hypothyroidism <hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2011, 11:43 AM

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

>

> I went to the internist because of the white coating and red areas on my

> tongue, and while I was there showed him the swelling at the base of my

> neck, since it appeared in December long after I last saw him. He said it

> could be a fungus on my tongue, and gave me a prescription for some type of

> mouthwash. When I asked him about the neck swelling, he said he has women

> in his office at least four or five times a year with the same thing. When

> I asked what would cause it, there was no answer. He said if I was

> concerned he could do a chest x-ray to check for a tumor. When I asked him

> what kind he said, " a lung cancer tumor, but you don't smoke, and 99.9% of

> the time the x-ray comes back normal. " What I read said a chest x-ray is

> low in radiation. He is proabably right that my risk of lung cancer is low,

> however I think of the wife of Reeves who didn't smoke either,

> and was a young woman. To me the swelling is symptom, and there

> must be a cause. Would you have the x-ray?

>

> " There is always a slight chance of cancer from excessive exposure to

> radiation. However, the benefit of an accurate diagnosis far outweighs the

> risk.

> The chest x-ray is one of the lowest radiation exposure medical

> examinations performed today. The effective radiation dose from this

> procedure is about 0.1 mSv, which is about the same as the average person

> receives from background radiation in 10 days. See the Safety page (

> www.RadiologyInfo.org/en/safety/ <http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/safety/>)

> for more information about radiation dose. "

> http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=chestrad

>

> Then we had a discussion about the fact that my symptoms are not consistent

> with underactive thyroid. In August I wore size 6 slacks and they were

> snug. Now I'm wearing size 4, and they are loose. Even though I'm probably

> only six pounds lighter than I was in August, I can't wear the clothes I

> wore then. It shows in the way my clothes fit more than on the scale. His

> answer to this was that lots of older women lose weight, and it's not

> uncommon to have opposite symptoms. When I asked him about soy, gluten, and

> goitrogens, he said I could eat anything I want. The endo at the Mayo

> Clinic said the same thing, but added the words in moderation.

>

> The next topic of concern was the elevated heart rate. It was 96 when I

> was in his office. Since I'm not slowing down, taking naps, or sleeping

> better, but am struggling to keep from losing weight rather than gaining

> while taking such a small dose of medicine, I asked if there could be a

> problem with the pituitary gland or the adrenals. He said no, because the

> endo would have pickked it up in a heartbeat, if that were the case. He

> also said I don't have to take the medicine if I don't want to. I wasn't

> complaining about taking it, just saying it's weird that such a small dose

> of Levothyroxin (25 mcg) made the TSH go from over 8 to barely above zero.

> The Mayo Clinic doctor cut it back to 12.5 mcg becaue of my hyper symptoms

> and because he didn't like to see the TSH as low as it had been after taking

> 25 mcg for a while. But, the lower dose didn't slow my heart rate down and

> my blood pressure was higher than usual too.

>

> My last question was if there was a way to decrease the size of my thyroid,

> or keep it from growing. I am not eating goitrogens and am trying to

> eliminate soy. That's hard to do! He said if you have trouble swallowing,

> that's usually when they recommend surgery to take it out. Notice, he

> didn't answer the question. Here's one of those " out there " questions. If

> the thyroid of a Hashimoto's patient is removed, does the person still have

> an autoimmune disease? And, do the antibodies subside, or do they attack

> something else? The doctor said what I already knew, that if I eventually

> have surgery I'll be on thyroid medicine for the rest of my life, but since

> I will be anyway, he didn't think it would make much difference.

>

> Any thoughts?

>

> Barb

>

>

[Guest guest]

IMHO it is extremely unlikely that you have lung cancer; AND it is

extremely unlikely that if you do the swelling is caused by same. I

would not be exceedingly surprised if you were in very advanced [stage

4] lung cancer to see you have the swelling from it; but I'd expect lots

of other symptoms first...OTOH I'm not a doctor or expert of any kind.

I do know that cancer is one of the many things that can cause weight loss.

I can tell you that my ex-wife had part of a lung removed a few years

back and she never smoked.

HOWEVER: Given what to me appear to be totally inconsistent symptoms

and medical results I would probably lean toward any kind of test I

could get to start ruling out as many things as possible. So if it were

me I'd be leaning toward having the x-ray.

With your case I'm like someone trying to assemble a puzzle and

everywhere I turn I run into another piece that just doesn't fit...

anywhere. Hang in there.

Regards,

..

..

> Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@...

> <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Another%20Doctor%20Visit>

> westieabbey <westieabbey>

>

>

> Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:43 am (PST)

>

>

>

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I went to the internist because of the white coating and red areas on

> my tongue, and while I was there showed him the swelling at the base

> of my neck, since it appeared in December long after I last saw him.

> He said it could be a fungus on my tongue, and gave me a prescription

> for some type of mouthwash. When I asked him about the neck swelling,

> he said he has women in his office at least four or five times a year

> with the same thing. When I asked what would cause it, there was no

> answer. He said if I was concerned he could do a chest x-ray to check

> for a tumor. When I asked him what kind he said, " a lung cancer tumor,

> but you don't smoke, and 99.9% of the time the x-ray comes back

> normal. " What I read said a chest x-ray is low in radiation. He is

> proabably right that my risk of lung cancer is low, however I think of

> the wife of Reeves who didn't smoke either, and was a

> young woman. To me the swelling is symptom, and there must be a cause.

> Would you have the x-ray?

>

> " There is always a slight chance of cancer from excessive exposure to

> radiation. However, the benefit of an accurate diagnosis far outweighs

> the risk.

> The chest x-ray is one of the lowest radiation exposure medical

> examinations performed today. The effective radiation dose from this

> procedure is about 0.1 mSv, which is about the same as the average

> person receives from background radiation in 10 days. See the Safety

> page (www.RadiologyInfo.

> org/en/safety/) for more information about radiation dose. "

> http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=chestrad

> <http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=chestrad>

>

> Then we had a discussion about the fact that my symptoms are not

> consistent with underactive thyroid. In August I wore size 6 slacks

> and they were snug. Now I'm wearing size 4, and they are loose. Even

> though I'm probably only six pounds lighter than I was in August, I

> can't wear the clothes I wore then. It shows in the way my clothes fit

> more than on the scale. His answer to this was that lots of older

> women lose weight, and it's not uncommon to have opposite symptoms.

> When I asked him about soy, gluten, and goitrogens, he said I could

> eat anything I want. The endo at the Mayo Clinic said the same thing,

> but added the words in moderation.

>

> The next topic of concern was the elevated heart rate. It was 96 when

> I was in his office. Since I'm not slowing down, taking naps, or

> sleeping better, but am struggling to keep from losing weight rather

> than gaining while taking such a small dose of medicine, I asked if

> there could be a problem with the pituitary gland or the adrenals. He

> said no, because the endo would have pickked it up in a heartbeat, if

> that were the case. He also said I don't have to take the medicine if

> I don't want to. I wasn't complaining about taking it, just saying

> it's weird that such a small dose of Levothyroxin (25 mcg) made the

> TSH go from over 8 to barely above zero. The Mayo Clinic doctor cut it

> back to 12.5 mcg becaue of my hyper symptoms and because he didn't

> like to see the TSH as low as it had been after taking 25 mcg for a

> while. But, the lower dose didn't slow my heart rate down and my blood

> pressure was higher than usual too.

>

> My last question was if there was a way to decrease the size of my

> thyroid, or keep it from growing. I am not eating goitrogens and am

> trying to eliminate soy. That's hard to do! He said if you have

> trouble swallowing, that's usually when they recommend surgery to take

> it out. Notice, he didn't answer the question. Here's one of those

> " out there " questions. If the thyroid of a Hashimoto's patient is

> removed, does the person still have an autoimmune disease? And, do the

> antibodies subside, or do they attack something else? The doctor said

> what I already knew, that if I eventually have surgery I'll be on

> thyroid medicine for the rest of my life, but since I will be anyway,

> he didn't think it would make much difference.

>

> Any thoughts?

>

> Barb

[Guest guest]

Barb,

You wrote:

> I agree that it's safe enough, but don't understand why he would suggest it.

If

> there is a valid reason for having it I will. Do you know of one?

Only that your doctor suggested it.

> ... That's interesting. I asked the doctor today if I was at a higher risk

> for other autoimmune diseases since I have Hashimoto's, and he said only a

> very slight risk. He also said at a place like The Mayo Clinic, they want to

> know if you have Hashimoto's, but we don't really care here, since we

> treat it the same way. What do you think of that?

That is the common logic, which actually works for many people. It means more

business for Mayo, though.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Roni,

You wrote:

> Chuck what are the usual or most prevalent other auto immune illnesses that

come along in the

> group of three.?

Diabetes millitus and rheumatoid arthritis. Here's a 2006 review article that

cites a lot of the work on this:

Somers EC, SL, Smeeth L, Hall AJ. Autoimmune diseases co-occurring within

individuals and within families: a systematic review. Epidemiology. 2006

Mar;17(2):202-17. <http://hdl.handle.net/2027.42/60328>

Abstract: BACKGROUND: Autoimmune diseases have been observed to coexist both

within individuals and within families. It is unclear whether clinical reports

of comorbid autoimmune diseases represent chance findings or true associations.

This systematic review evaluates the current level of evidence on the

coexistence of selected autoimmune diseases within individuals and families. We

reviewed the associations among 4 TH1-associated autoimmune diseases:

insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus, autoimmune (Hashimoto) thyroiditis,

rheumatoid arthritis, and multiple sclerosis. METHODS: Studies quantifying the

coexistence between the selected diseases, published through March 2004, were

identified from Medline and Embase searches. Study eligibility was determined on

the basis of preestablished criteria, and relevant data were extracted according

to a fixed protocol. We determined the prevalence of comorbid autoimmune disease

according to index disease and then compiled summary statistics. Heterogeneity

among studies was assessed by exact likelihood ratio tests and Monte Carlo

inference. RESULTS: We found 54 studies that met the eligibility criteria. Of

these, 52 studies examined the coexistence of disease within individuals and 9

studies examined within-family associations. The majority of studies were

uncontrolled and did not account for confounding factors. There was substantial

evidence for heterogeneity among studies. Although inconclusive, the data appear

to support an increased prevalence of autoimmune thyroiditis among patients with

rheumatoid arthritis and those with insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus, and an

inverse association between rheumatoid arthritis and multiple sclerosis.

CONCLUSION: Although the available evidence does not permit firm conclusions

regarding comorbidities among the selected autoimmune diseases, results are

sufficiently suggestive to warrant further study.

[Guest guest]

Another thing that can cause weight loss besides cancer is if your adrenals are

out of wack. Normally doctors look for vomiting before they will test for low

cortisol, however some folks may just have low level dis-function of the

stomache for so long that they think it's normal for their bodies. Do you ever

have nausea? Even slightly? The adrenal symptom aside from this that you appear

to have are blood pressure irregularities, and high pulse, which can come from

the body producing adrenalin because it's not getting enough cortisol (the

normal adrenal hormone that's supposed to take care of things). This situation

with adrenalin is like a panic attack, but can go on for days.

I suspect that the adrenals are another organ that gets the lovely auto-immune

treatment. But it's very difficult to test the adrenals for an auto-immune

attack.

I myself had symptoms of low adrenal output, yet no vomiting (at first- that

came later) but I finally found a doctor who would test for cortisol and I came

in at s levels. In the mean time I had lost 30 lbs. I was put on

Hydrocortisol and after a year I was able to slowly reduce my dose to nothing.

The confounding thing about the adrenals is that they react to stress, and the

stress could be caused by screwy thyroid output; it's all interrelated and both

glands are run by a pituitary loop.

Not so simple.

Marla

>

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I went to the internist because of the white coating and red areas on my

tongue, and while I was there showed him the swelling at the base of my neck,

since it appeared in December long after I last saw him. He said it could be a

fungus on my tongue, and gave me a prescription for some type of mouthwash.

When I asked him about the neck swelling, he said he has women in his office at

least four or five times a year with the same thing. When I asked what would

cause it, there was no answer. He said if I was concerned he could do a chest

x-ray to check for a tumor. When I asked him what kind he said, " a lung cancer

tumor, but you don't smoke, and 99.9% of the time the x-ray comes back normal. "

What I read said a chest x-ray is low in radiation. He is proabably right that

my risk of lung cancer is low, however I think of the wife of Reeves

who didn't smoke either, and was a young woman. To me the swelling is symptom,

and there must be a cause. Would you have the x-ray?

>

> " There is always a slight chance of cancer from excessive exposure to

radiation. However, the benefit of an accurate diagnosis far outweighs the risk.

> The chest x-ray is one of the lowest radiation exposure medical examinations

performed today. The effective radiation dose from this procedure is about 0.1

mSv, which is about the same as the average person receives from background

radiation in 10 days. See the Safety page (www.RadiologyInfo.org/en/safety/) for

more information about radiation dose. "

> http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=chestrad

>

> Then we had a discussion about the fact that my symptoms are not consistent

with underactive thyroid. In August I wore size 6 slacks and they were snug.

Now I'm wearing size 4, and they are loose. Even though I'm probably only six

pounds lighter than I was in August, I can't wear the clothes I wore then. It

shows in the way my clothes fit more than on the scale. His answer to this was

that lots of older women lose weight, and it's not uncommon to have opposite

symptoms. When I asked him about soy, gluten, and goitrogens, he said I could

eat anything I want. The endo at the Mayo Clinic said the same thing, but added

the words in moderation.

>

> The next topic of concern was the elevated heart rate. It was 96 when I was

in his office. Since I'm not slowing down, taking naps, or sleeping better,

but am struggling to keep from losing weight rather than gaining while taking

such a small dose of medicine, I asked if there could be a problem with the

pituitary gland or the adrenals. He said no, because the endo would have

pickked it up in a heartbeat, if that were the case. He also said I don't have

to take the medicine if I don't want to. I wasn't complaining about taking it,

just saying it's weird that such a small dose of Levothyroxin (25 mcg) made the

TSH go from over 8 to barely above zero. The Mayo Clinic doctor cut it back to

12.5 mcg becaue of my hyper symptoms and because he didn't like to see the TSH

as low as it had been after taking 25 mcg for a while. But, the lower dose

didn't slow my heart rate down and my blood pressure was higher than usual too.

>

> My last question was if there was a way to decrease the size of my thyroid, or

keep it from growing. I am not eating goitrogens and am trying to eliminate

soy. That's hard to do! He said if you have trouble swallowing, that's usually

when they recommend surgery to take it out. Notice, he didn't answer the

question. Here's one of those " out there " questions. If the thyroid of a

Hashimoto's patient is removed, does the person still have an autoimmune

disease? And, do the antibodies subside, or do they attack something else? The

doctor said what I already knew, that if I eventually have surgery I'll be on

thyroid medicine for the rest of my life, but since I will be anyway, he didn't

think it would make much difference.

>

> Any thoughts?

>

> Barb

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the information Marla. I asked the doctor at the Mayo Clinic if he

had tested the adrenals, and he said no because he didn't think it was

necessary. I haven't had any nausea at all, even slightly. The other symptoms

sure point to that though. I'll keep this in mind . It's good you found a

doctor to check for cortisol, and I'll ask to have that checked again. The

swelling is still a mystery though. Have you experienced any of that.

Thanks,

Barb

Re: Another Doctor Visit

Another thing that can cause weight loss besides cancer is if your adrenals are

out of wack. Normally doctors look for vomiting before they will test for low

cortisol, however some folks may just have low level dis-function of the

stomache for so long that they think it's normal for their bodies. Do you ever

have nausea? Even slightly? The adrenal symptom aside from this that you appear

to have are blood pressure irregularities, and high pulse, which can come from

the body producing adrenalin because it's not getting enough cortisol (the

normal adrenal hormone that's supposed to take care of things). This situation

with adrenalin is like a panic attack, but can go on for days.

I suspect that the adrenals are another organ that gets the lovely auto-immune

treatment. But it's very difficult to test the adrenals for an auto-immune

attack.

I myself had symptoms of low adrenal output, yet no vomiting (at first- that

came later) but I finally found a doctor who would test for cortisol and I came

in at s levels. In the mean time I had lost 30 lbs. I was put on

Hydrocortisol and after a year I was able to slowly reduce my dose to nothing.

The confounding thing about the adrenals is that they react to stress, and the

stress could be caused by screwy thyroid output; it's all interrelated and both

glands are run by a pituitary loop.

Not so simple.

Marla

>

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I went to the internist because of the white coating and red areas on my

tongue, and while I was there showed him the swelling at the base of my neck,

since it appeared in December long after I last saw him. He said it could be a

fungus on my tongue, and gave me a prescription for some type of mouthwash. When

I asked him about the neck swelling, he said he has women in his office at least

four or five times a year with the same thing. When I asked what would cause it,

there was no answer. He said if I was concerned he could do a chest x-ray to

check for a tumor. When I asked him what kind he said, " a lung cancer tumor, but

you don't smoke, and 99.9% of the time the x-ray comes back normal. " What I read

said a chest x-ray is low in radiation. He is proabably right that my risk of

lung cancer is low, however I think of the wife of Reeves who didn't

smoke either, and was a young woman. To me the swelling is symptom, and there

must be a cause. Would you have the x-ray?

>

> " There is always a slight chance of cancer from excessive exposure to

radiation. However, the benefit of an accurate diagnosis far outweighs the risk.

> The chest x-ray is one of the lowest radiation exposure medical examinations

performed today. The effective radiation dose from this procedure is about 0.1

mSv, which is about the same as the average person receives from background

radiation in 10 days. See the Safety page (www.RadiologyInfo.org/en/safety/) for

more information about radiation dose. "

> http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=chestrad

>

> Then we had a discussion about the fact that my symptoms are not consistent

with underactive thyroid. In August I wore size 6 slacks and they were snug. Now

I'm wearing size 4, and they are loose. Even though I'm probably only six pounds

lighter than I was in August, I can't wear the clothes I wore then. It shows in

the way my clothes fit more than on the scale. His answer to this was that lots

of older women lose weight, and it's not uncommon to have opposite symptoms.

When I asked him about soy, gluten, and goitrogens, he said I could eat anything

I want. The endo at the Mayo Clinic said the same thing, but added the words in

moderation.

>

> The next topic of concern was the elevated heart rate. It was 96 when I was in

his office. Since I'm not slowing down, taking naps, or sleeping better, but am

struggling to keep from losing weight rather than gaining while taking such a

small dose of medicine, I asked if there could be a problem with the pituitary

gland or the adrenals. He said no, because the endo would have pickked it up in

a heartbeat, if that were the case. He also said I don't have to take the

medicine if I don't want to. I wasn't complaining about taking it, just saying

it's weird that such a small dose of Levothyroxin (25 mcg) made the TSH go from

over 8 to barely above zero. The Mayo Clinic doctor cut it back to 12.5 mcg

becaue of my hyper symptoms and because he didn't like to see the TSH as low as

it had been after taking 25 mcg for a while. But, the lower dose didn't slow my

heart rate down and my blood pressure was higher than usual too.

>

> My last question was if there was a way to decrease the size of my thyroid, or

keep it from growing. I am not eating goitrogens and am trying to eliminate soy.

That's hard to do! He said if you have trouble swallowing, that's usually when

they recommend surgery to take it out. Notice, he didn't answer the question.

Here's one of those " out there " questions. If the thyroid of a Hashimoto's

patient is removed, does the person still have an autoimmune disease? And, do

the antibodies subside, or do they attack something else? The doctor said what I

already knew, that if I eventually have surgery I'll be on thyroid medicine for

the rest of my life, but since I will be anyway, he didn't think it would make

much difference.

>

> Any thoughts?

>

> Barb

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

When you say " swelling " , I'm not sure what you really mean. Is it a localized

raised lump, a general swollen condition like edema ( fluid under the skin) in a

certain area, or an actual gland that is enlarged? I have had edema and an

enlarged thyroid. I know you had a fna on thyroid nodules, but the entire

gland/lobe may also enlarge in a more fiberous manner. This could be related to

Hashis and/or not enough thyroid.

Is the swelling near your trachea in the neck or lower? Are the swollen areas

tender to the touch?

Marla

>

>

> Thanks for the information Marla. I asked the doctor at the Mayo Clinic if he

had tested the adrenals, and he said no because he didn't think it was

necessary. I haven't had any nausea at all, even slightly. The other symptoms

sure point to that though. I'll keep this in mind . It's good you found a

doctor to check for cortisol, and I'll ask to have that checked again. The

swelling is still a mystery though. Have you experienced any of that.

>

> Thanks,

> Barb

>

[Guest guest]

Well you're not getting very far with your doctor, so I would definitely contact

the Mayo Clinic again. I don't understand why you went back to the thyroid pill

when they told you to stop it.

Also, why did they tell you to stop it. Did you ask them?

 

When you talk to them try to get to talk to whoever it was that told you to

stop, or one of the doctors that you saw when you went there. Make sure to

explain what has been going on as far as your symptoms and when they appeared,

as well as when you took the pills, how much and why.

 

 I would sit down and make a list in date order so that when you are on the

'phone, you can state your case in the least amount of time. Remember these

people have little time.

 

 

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> From: H <macbarb0503@... <macbarb0503%40aol.com>>

> Subject: Another Doctor Visit

> hypothyroidism <hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2011, 11:43 AM

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

>

> I went to the internist because of the white coating and red areas on my

> tongue, and while I was there showed him the swelling at the base of my

> neck, since it appeared in December long after I last saw him.  He said it

> could be a fungus on my tongue, and gave me a prescription for some type of

> mouthwash.   When I asked him about the neck swelling, he said he has women

> in his office at least four or five times a year with the same thing.  When

> I asked what would cause it, there was no answer.  He said if I was

> concerned he could do a chest x-ray to check for a tumor.  When I asked him

> what kind he said, " a lung cancer tumor, but you don't smoke, and 99.9% of

> the time the x-ray comes back normal. "   What I read said a chest x-ray is

> low in radiation.  He is proabably right that my risk of lung cancer is low,

> however I think of the wife of Reeves who didn't smoke either,

> and was a young woman.  To me the swelling is symptom, and there

> must be a cause.  Would you have the x-ray?

>

> " There is always a slight chance of cancer from excessive exposure to

> radiation. However, the benefit of an accurate diagnosis far outweighs the

> risk.

> The chest x-ray is one of the lowest radiation exposure medical

> examinations performed today. The effective radiation dose from this

> procedure is about 0.1 mSv, which is about the same as the average person

> receives from background radiation in 10 days. See the Safety page (

> www.RadiologyInfo.org/en/safety/ <http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/safety/>)

> for more information about radiation dose. "

> http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=chestrad

>

> Then we had a discussion about the fact that my symptoms are not consistent

> with underactive thyroid.  In August I wore size 6 slacks and they were

> snug.  Now I'm wearing size 4, and they are loose.  Even though I'm probably

> only six pounds lighter than I was in August, I can't wear the clothes I

> wore then.  It shows in the way my clothes fit more than on the scale.  His

> answer to this was that lots of  older women lose weight, and it's not

> uncommon to have opposite symptoms.  When I asked him about soy, gluten, and

> goitrogens, he said I could eat anything I want.  The endo at the Mayo

> Clinic said the same thing, but added the words in moderation.

>

> The next topic of concern was the elevated heart rate.  It was 96 when I

> was in his office.   Since I'm not slowing down, taking naps, or sleeping

> better, but am struggling to keep from losing weight rather than gaining

> while taking such a small dose of medicine, I asked if there could be a

> problem with the pituitary gland or the adrenals.  He said no, because the

> endo would have pickked it up in a heartbeat, if that were the case.  He

> also said I don't have to take the medicine if I don't want to.  I wasn't

> complaining about taking it, just saying it's weird that such a small dose

> of Levothyroxin (25 mcg) made the TSH go from over 8 to barely above zero.

> The Mayo Clinic doctor cut it back to 12.5 mcg becaue of my hyper symptoms

> and because he didn't like to see the TSH as low as it had been after taking

> 25 mcg for a while.  But, the lower dose didn't slow my heart rate down and

> my blood pressure was higher than usual too.

>

> My last question was if there was a way to decrease the size of my thyroid,

> or keep it from growing.   I am not eating goitrogens and am trying to

> eliminate soy.  That's hard to do!  He said if you have trouble swallowing,

> that's usually when they recommend surgery to take it out.  Notice, he

> didn't answer the question. Here's one of those " out there " questions.  If

> the thyroid of a Hashimoto's patient is removed, does the person still have

> an autoimmune disease?  And, do the antibodies subside, or do they attack

> something else?  The doctor said what I already knew, that if I eventually

> have surgery I'll be on thyroid medicine for the rest of my life, but since

> I will be anyway, he didn't think it would make much difference.

>

> Any thoughts?

>

> Barb

>

>

[Guest guest]

Technically, I would agree to start ruling things out. However, your doctor

doesn't seem to know what to look for, so the tests might be looking for the

wrong things and not pick up what is really going on.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: Another Doctor Visit

hypothyroidism

Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 9:46 AM

IMHO it is extremely unlikely that you have lung cancer; AND it is

extremely unlikely that if you do the swelling is caused by same.  I

would not be exceedingly surprised if you were in very advanced [stage

4] lung cancer to see you have the swelling from it; but I'd expect lots

of other symptoms first...OTOH I'm not a doctor or expert of any kind. 

I do know that cancer is one of the many things that can cause weight loss.

I can tell you that my ex-wife had part of a lung removed a few years

back and she never smoked.

HOWEVER:  Given what to me appear to be totally inconsistent symptoms

and medical results I would probably lean toward any kind of test I

could get to start ruling out as many things as possible.  So if it were

me I'd be leaning toward having the x-ray.

With your case I'm like someone trying to assemble a puzzle and

everywhere I turn I run into another piece that just doesn't fit...

anywhere.  Hang in there.

Regards,

..

..

>       Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@...

>       <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Another%20Doctor%20Visit>

>       westieabbey <westieabbey>

>

>

>         Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:43 am (PST)

>

>

>

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I went to the internist because of the white coating and red areas on

> my tongue, and while I was there showed him the swelling at the base

> of my neck, since it appeared in December long after I last saw him.

> He said it could be a fungus on my tongue, and gave me a prescription

> for some type of mouthwash. When I asked him about the neck swelling,

> he said he has women in his office at least four or five times a year

> with the same thing. When I asked what would cause it, there was no

> answer. He said if I was concerned he could do a chest x-ray to check

> for a tumor. When I asked him what kind he said, " a lung cancer tumor,

> but you don't smoke, and 99.9% of the time the x-ray comes back

> normal. " What I read said a chest x-ray is low in radiation. He is

> proabably right that my risk of lung cancer is low, however I think of

> the wife of Reeves who didn't smoke either, and was a

> young woman. To me the swelling is symptom, and there must be a cause.

> Would you have the x-ray?

>

> " There is always a slight chance of cancer from excessive exposure to

> radiation. However, the benefit of an accurate diagnosis far outweighs

> the risk.

> The chest x-ray is one of the lowest radiation exposure medical

> examinations performed today. The effective radiation dose from this

> procedure is about 0.1 mSv, which is about the same as the average

> person receives from background radiation in 10 days. See the Safety

> page (www.RadiologyInfo.

> org/en/safety/) for more information about radiation dose. "

> http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=chestrad

> <http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=chestrad>

>

> Then we had a discussion about the fact that my symptoms are not

> consistent with underactive thyroid. In August I wore size 6 slacks

> and they were snug. Now I'm wearing size 4, and they are loose. Even

> though I'm probably only six pounds lighter than I was in August, I

> can't wear the clothes I wore then. It shows in the way my clothes fit

> more than on the scale. His answer to this was that lots of older

> women lose weight, and it's not uncommon to have opposite symptoms.

> When I asked him about soy, gluten, and goitrogens, he said I could

> eat anything I want. The endo at the Mayo Clinic said the same thing,

> but added the words in moderation.

>

> The next topic of concern was the elevated heart rate. It was 96 when

> I was in his office. Since I'm not slowing down, taking naps, or

> sleeping better, but am struggling to keep from losing weight rather

> than gaining while taking such a small dose of medicine, I asked if

> there could be a problem with the pituitary gland or the adrenals. He

> said no, because the endo would have pickked it up in a heartbeat, if

> that were the case. He also said I don't have to take the medicine if

> I don't want to. I wasn't complaining about taking it, just saying

> it's weird that such a small dose of Levothyroxin (25 mcg) made the

> TSH go from over 8 to barely above zero. The Mayo Clinic doctor cut it

> back to 12.5 mcg becaue of my hyper symptoms and because he didn't

> like to see the TSH as low as it had been after taking 25 mcg for a

> while. But, the lower dose didn't slow my heart rate down and my blood

> pressure was higher than usual too.

>

> My last question was if there was a way to decrease the size of my

> thyroid, or keep it from growing. I am not eating goitrogens and am

> trying to eliminate soy. That's hard to do! He said if you have

> trouble swallowing, that's usually when they recommend surgery to take

> it out. Notice, he didn't answer the question. Here's one of those

> " out there " questions. If the thyroid of a Hashimoto's patient is

> removed, does the person still have an autoimmune disease? And, do the

> antibodies subside, or do they attack something else? The doctor said

> what I already knew, that if I eventually have surgery I'll be on

> thyroid medicine for the rest of my life, but since I will be anyway,

> he didn't think it would make much difference.

>

> Any thoughts?

>

> Barb

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the info.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

> Chuck what are the usual or most prevalent other auto immune illnesses that

come along in the

> group of three.?

Diabetes millitus and rheumatoid arthritis. Here's a 2006 review article that

cites a lot of the work on this:

Somers EC, SL, Smeeth L, Hall AJ. Autoimmune diseases co-occurring within

individuals and within families: a systematic review. Epidemiology. 2006

Mar;17(2):202-17. <http://hdl.handle.net/2027.42/60328>

Abstract:     BACKGROUND: Autoimmune diseases have been observed to coexist both

within individuals and within families. It is unclear whether clinical reports

of comorbid autoimmune diseases represent chance findings or true associations.

This systematic review evaluates the current level of evidence on the

coexistence of selected autoimmune diseases within individuals and families. We

reviewed the associations among 4 TH1-associated autoimmune diseases:

insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus, autoimmune (Hashimoto) thyroiditis,

rheumatoid arthritis, and multiple sclerosis. METHODS: Studies quantifying the

coexistence between the selected diseases, published through March 2004, were

identified from Medline and Embase searches. Study eligibility was determined on

the basis of preestablished criteria, and relevant data were extracted according

to a fixed protocol. We determined the prevalence of comorbid autoimmune disease

according to index disease and

then compiled summary statistics. Heterogeneity among studies was assessed by

exact likelihood ratio tests and Monte Carlo inference. RESULTS: We found 54

studies that met the eligibility criteria. Of these, 52 studies examined the

coexistence of disease within individuals and 9 studies examined within-family

associations. The majority of studies were uncontrolled and did not account for

confounding factors. There was substantial evidence for heterogeneity among

studies. Although inconclusive, the data appear to support an increased

prevalence of autoimmune thyroiditis among patients with rheumatoid arthritis

and those with insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus, and an inverse association

between rheumatoid arthritis and multiple sclerosis. CONCLUSION: Although the

available evidence does not permit firm conclusions regarding comorbidities

among the selected autoimmune diseases, results are sufficiently suggestive to

warrant further study.

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I would be very concerned if you decided to take cortisol, especially right now.

Steroids, all of them, depress the immune system, and I think that is the last

thing that you need now. If anything I would make sure I was taking a good

multivitamin/mineral pill daily, and some magnesium, COQ10, Vitamin B-100,

Vitamin C especially, D3, Folate, Fish Oil.

 

These things enhance the immune system. Make sure your immune system is healthy

and it will serve to keep you from getting lots of ailments that you don't have

to get.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: H <macbarb0503@...>

Subject: Re: Re: Another Doctor Visit

hypothyroidism

Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 7:54 PM

Thanks for the information Marla.  I asked the doctor at the Mayo Clinic if he

had tested the adrenals, and he said no because he didn't think it was

necessary.  I haven't had any nausea at all, even slightly.  The other symptoms

sure point to that though.  I'll keep this in mind .  It's good you found a

doctor to check for cortisol, and I'll ask to have that checked again.  The

swelling is still a mystery though.  Have you experienced any of that.

Thanks,

Barb

Re: Another Doctor Visit

Another thing that can cause weight loss besides cancer is if your adrenals are

out of wack. Normally doctors look for vomiting before they will test for low

cortisol, however some folks may just have low level dis-function of the

stomache for so long that they think it's normal for their bodies. Do you ever

have nausea? Even slightly? The adrenal symptom aside from this that you appear

to have are blood pressure irregularities, and high pulse, which can come from

the body producing adrenalin because it's not getting enough cortisol (the

normal adrenal hormone that's supposed to take care of things). This situation

with adrenalin is like a panic attack, but can go on for days.

I suspect that the adrenals are another organ that gets the lovely auto-immune

treatment. But it's very difficult to test the adrenals for an auto-immune

attack.

I myself had symptoms of low adrenal output, yet no vomiting (at first- that

came later) but I finally found a doctor who would test for cortisol and I came

in at s levels. In the mean time I had lost 30 lbs. I was put on

Hydrocortisol and after a year I was able to slowly reduce my dose to nothing.

The confounding thing about the adrenals is that they react to stress, and the

stress could be caused by screwy thyroid output; it's all interrelated and both

glands are run by a pituitary loop.

Not so simple.

Marla

>

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I went to the internist because of the white coating and red areas on my

tongue, and while I was there showed him the swelling at the base of my neck,

since it appeared in December long after I last saw him. He said it could be a

fungus on my tongue, and gave me a prescription for some type of mouthwash. When

I asked him about the neck swelling, he said he has women in his office at least

four or five times a year with the same thing. When I asked what would cause it,

there was no answer. He said if I was concerned he could do a chest x-ray to

check for a tumor. When I asked him what kind he said, " a lung cancer tumor, but

you don't smoke, and 99.9% of the time the x-ray comes back normal. " What I read

said a chest x-ray is low in radiation. He is proabably right that my risk of

lung cancer is low, however I think of the wife of Reeves who didn't

smoke either, and was a young woman. To me the swelling is symptom, and there

must be a cause.

Would you have the x-ray?

>

> " There is always a slight chance of cancer from excessive exposure to

radiation. However, the benefit of an accurate diagnosis far outweighs the risk.

> The chest x-ray is one of the lowest radiation exposure medical examinations

performed today. The effective radiation dose from this procedure is about 0.1

mSv, which is about the same as the average person receives from background

radiation in 10 days. See the Safety page (www.RadiologyInfo.org/en/safety/) for

more information about radiation dose. "

> http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=chestrad

>

> Then we had a discussion about the fact that my symptoms are not consistent

with underactive thyroid. In August I wore size 6 slacks and they were snug. Now

I'm wearing size 4, and they are loose. Even though I'm probably only six pounds

lighter than I was in August, I can't wear the clothes I wore then. It shows in

the way my clothes fit more than on the scale. His answer to this was that lots

of older women lose weight, and it's not uncommon to have opposite symptoms.

When I asked him about soy, gluten, and goitrogens, he said I could eat anything

I want. The endo at the Mayo Clinic said the same thing, but added the words in

moderation.

>

> The next topic of concern was the elevated heart rate. It was 96 when I was in

his office. Since I'm not slowing down, taking naps, or sleeping better, but am

struggling to keep from losing weight rather than gaining while taking such a

small dose of medicine, I asked if there could be a problem with the pituitary

gland or the adrenals. He said no, because the endo would have pickked it up in

a heartbeat, if that were the case. He also said I don't have to take the

medicine if I don't want to. I wasn't complaining about taking it, just saying

it's weird that such a small dose of Levothyroxin (25 mcg) made the TSH go from

over 8 to barely above zero. The Mayo Clinic doctor cut it back to 12.5 mcg

becaue of my hyper symptoms and because he didn't like to see the TSH as low as

it had been after taking 25 mcg for a while. But, the lower dose didn't slow my

heart rate down and my blood pressure was higher than usual too.

>

> My last question was if there was a way to decrease the size of my thyroid, or

keep it from growing. I am not eating goitrogens and am trying to eliminate soy.

That's hard to do! He said if you have trouble swallowing, that's usually when

they recommend surgery to take it out. Notice, he didn't answer the question.

Here's one of those " out there " questions. If the thyroid of a Hashimoto's

patient is removed, does the person still have an autoimmune disease? And, do

the antibodies subside, or do they attack something else? The doctor said what I

already knew, that if I eventually have surgery I'll be on thyroid medicine for

the rest of my life, but since I will be anyway, he didn't think it would make

much difference.

>

> Any thoughts?

>

> Barb

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 12:46 PM, <res075oh@...> wrote:

>

>

> IMHO it is extremely unlikely that you have lung cancer; AND it is

> extremely unlikely that if you do the swelling is caused by same. I

> would not be exceedingly surprised if you were in very advanced [stage

> 4] lung cancer to see you have the swelling from it; but I'd expect lots

> of other symptoms first...OTOH I'm not a doctor or expert of any kind.

> I do know that cancer is one of the many things that can cause weight loss.

>

You're right . The x-ray came back normal.

> I can tell you that my ex-wife had part of a lung removed a few years

> back and she never smoked.

>

I'm sorry that happened to your x-wife, and hope she is okay now.

> HOWEVER: Given what to me appear to be totally inconsistent symptoms

> and medical results I would probably lean toward any kind of test I

> could get to start ruling out as many things as possible. So if it were

> me I'd be leaning toward having the x-ray.

>

I'm going for the x-ray today. Tomorrow I plan to go to the walk in

clinic. I checked to see what doctor was there today, and I've never heard

of him. Tomorrow A doctor I met in the emergency room, who I was very

impressed with will be working in the Clinic.

With your case I'm like someone trying to assemble a puzzle and

everywhere I turn I run into another piece that just doesn't fit...

anywhere. Hang in there.

Thanks for your encouragement . On days like today I need it. Every

time a new symptom appears, it's kind of scary, and I get to the point where

I think, okay I can live with that. Then along comes another weird

symptom. It seems like whether I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop or

not, it keeps happening.

Regards,

..

..

> Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@... <macbarb0503%40aol.com>

> <mailto:macbarb0503@... <macbarb0503%40aol.com>

?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Another%20Doctor%20Visit>

> westieabbey <westieabbey>

>

>

> Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:43 am (PST)

>

>

>

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I went to the internist because of the white coating and red areas on

> my tongue, and while I was there showed him the swelling at the base

> of my neck, since it appeared in December long after I last saw him.

> He said it could be a fungus on my tongue, and gave me a prescription

> for some type of mouthwash. When I asked him about the neck swelling,

> he said he has women in his office at least four or five times a year

> with the same thing. When I asked what would cause it, there was no

> answer. He said if I was concerned he could do a chest x-ray to check

> for a tumor. When I asked him what kind he said, " a lung cancer tumor,

> but you don't smoke, and 99.9% of the time the x-ray comes back

> normal. " What I read said a chest x-ray is low in radiation. He is

> proabably right that my risk of lung cancer is low, however I think of

> the wife of Reeves who didn't smoke either, and was a

> young woman. To me the swelling is symptom, and there must be a cause.

> Would you have the x-ray?

>

> " There is always a slight chance of cancer from excessive exposure to

> radiation. However, the benefit of an accurate diagnosis far outweighs

> the risk.

> The chest x-ray is one of the lowest radiation exposure medical

> examinations performed today. The effective radiation dose from this

> procedure is about 0.1 mSv, which is about the same as the average

> person receives from background radiation in 10 days. See the Safety

> page (www.RadiologyInfo.

> org/en/safety/) for more information about radiation dose. "

> http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=chestrad

> <http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=chestrad>

>

> Then we had a discussion about the fact that my symptoms are not

> consistent with underactive thyroid. In August I wore size 6 slacks

> and they were snug. Now I'm wearing size 4, and they are loose. Even

> though I'm probably only six pounds lighter than I was in August, I

> can't wear the clothes I wore then. It shows in the way my clothes fit

> more than on the scale. His answer to this was that lots of older

> women lose weight, and it's not uncommon to have opposite symptoms.

> When I asked him about soy, gluten, and goitrogens, he said I could

> eat anything I want. The endo at the Mayo Clinic said the same thing,

> but added the words in moderation.

>

> The next topic of concern was the elevated heart rate. It was 96 when

> I was in his office. Since I'm not slowing down, taking naps, or

> sleeping better, but am struggling to keep from losing weight rather

> than gaining while taking such a small dose of medicine, I asked if

> there could be a problem with the pituitary gland or the adrenals. He

> said no, because the endo would have pickked it up in a heartbeat, if

> that were the case. He also said I don't have to take the medicine if

> I don't want to. I wasn't complaining about taking it, just saying

> it's weird that such a small dose of Levothyroxin (25 mcg) made the

> TSH go from over 8 to barely above zero. The Mayo Clinic doctor cut it

> back to 12.5 mcg becaue of my hyper symptoms and because he didn't

> like to see the TSH as low as it had been after taking 25 mcg for a

> while. But, the lower dose didn't slow my heart rate down and my blood

> pressure was higher than usual too.

>

> My last question was if there was a way to decrease the size of my

> thyroid, or keep it from growing. I am not eating goitrogens and am

> trying to eliminate soy. That's hard to do! He said if you have

> trouble swallowing, that's usually when they recommend surgery to take

> it out. Notice, he didn't answer the question. Here's one of those

> " out there " questions. If the thyroid of a Hashimoto's patient is

> removed, does the person still have an autoimmune disease? And, do the

> antibodies subside, or do they attack something else? The doctor said

> what I already knew, that if I eventually have surgery I'll be on

> thyroid medicine for the rest of my life, but since I will be anyway,

> he didn't think it would make much difference.

>

> Any thoughts?

>

> Barb

>

[Guest guest]

You might check your birth certificate and see whether it says " born " or

" hatched " !!! [ggg]

..

..

> Posted by: " Barbara Mackie " macbarb0503@...

>

<mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Another%20Doctor%20Visit>

>

>

>

> Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:36 pm (PST)

>

>

>

> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 12:46 PM, <res075oh@...

> <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > IMHO it is extremely unlikely that you have lung cancer; AND it is

> > extremely unlikely that if you do the swelling is caused by same. I

> > would not be exceedingly surprised if you were in very advanced [stage

> > 4] lung cancer to see you have the swelling from it; but I'd expect lots

> > of other symptoms first...OTOH I'm not a doctor or expert of any kind.

> > I do know that cancer is one of the many things that can cause

> weight loss.

> >

> You're right . The x-ray came back normal.

>

> > I can tell you that my ex-wife had part of a lung removed a few years

> > back and she never smoked.

> >

> I'm sorry that happened to your x-wife, and hope she is okay now.

>

> > HOWEVER: Given what to me appear to be totally inconsistent symptoms

> > and medical results I would probably lean toward any kind of test I

> > could get to start ruling out as many things as possible. So if it were

> > me I'd be leaning toward having the x-ray.

> >

> I'm going for the x-ray today. Tomorrow I plan to go to the walk in

> clinic. I checked to see what doctor was there today, and I've never heard

> of him. Tomorrow A doctor I met in the emergency room, who I was very

> impressed with will be working in the Clinic.

>

> With your case I'm like someone trying to assemble a puzzle and

> everywhere I turn I run into another piece that just doesn't fit...

> anywhere. Hang in there.

>

> Thanks for your encouragement . On days like today I need it. Every

> time a new symptom appears, it's kind of scary, and I get to the point

> where

> I think, okay I can live with that. Then along comes another weird

> symptom. It seems like whether I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop or

> not, it keeps happening.

>

> Regards,

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I see that.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

>

> From: <res075oh@... <mailto:res075oh%40verizon.net>>

> Subject: Re: Another Doctor Visit

> hypothyroidism

> <mailto:hypothyroidism%40>

> Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 2:30 PM

>

> You might check your birth certificate and see whether it says " born " or

> " hatched " !!! [ggg]

>

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

That's good advice. I have to remember that. I need to see an ENT, and when I

called she made an appointment 8 weeks out. I called her back after a week or so

and told her that I REALLy needed to see him an that it wasn't a casual visit. I

explained what is going on and she MAGICALLY found an appointment 4 weeks

earlier.

<>Roni

Immortality exists!

It's called knowledge!

 

Just because something isn't seen

doesn't mean it's not there<>

From: <res075oh@...>

Subject: Re: Another Doctor Visit

hypothyroidism

Date: Saturday, January 22, 2011, 10:45 AM

Where I live [] I don't think it takes anywhere near that long to

see a dermatologist.

One thing I've found is that one doctor's office can often get you into

another doctor's office almost instantly.  You might ask the office of

the doctor [or the doctor him/herself, if you can get to her/him] for a

recommendation to a specific dermatologist; and then ask her/his office

staff to make the appointment.

Luck,

..

..

>

>       Posted by: " H " macbarb0503@...

>       <mailto:macbarb0503@...?Subject=%20Re%3A%20Another%20Doctor%20Visit>

>       westieabbey <westieabbey>

>

>

>         Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:09 pm (PST)

>

>

>

>

>

> You might check your birth certificate and see whether it says " born " or

> " hatched " !!! [ggg]

>

>

>

> LOL! Thanks for the laugh . I needed that.

>

> My doctor called and is referring me to an ear nose and throat

> specialist, because " he doesn't know what else to do for me. "

> Then the doctor from the Mayo Clinic called back and said I should see

> a dermatologist, who could do a biopsy to find out what is under the

> swollen skin. It takes months to get an appointment with a

> dermatologist here, and I am at my wits end. I want someone to figure

> out what this is and do something about it now. Especially since it's

> on my face, and getting bigger.

>

> Barb

------------------------------------