Re: Aspie Assumptions

[Guest guest]

Tom,

That "assumed knowledge" is an Aspie trait, thought like all the traits, not every Aspie may have it. This used to be a real problem for me when I was growing up since I would assume everyone knew everything I did and on top of that, could think like I did. This was a real problem since the kids I grew up with never read anything beyond their school books, and even that was only cursory enough to do their homework and then forget about it, and never watched anything but sports and cartoons. Now I loved cartoons as much as any kid but I would also watch NOVA and other sceince programs and read a lot. As a result, there wasn't much we could really talk about, and that problem only grew worse as we got older.

Another interesting examples deals with fighting and such. One reason I am leary of fighting, aside from the obvious of getting badly hurt or ending up in jail, was that everyone knew all the stuff I did. While I never studied martial arts formally, I have studied with friends, including friends and parents of friends who were military. I've also picked up other tricks along the way and practice the motions and routines and work on a heavy bag now and then. Some of that stuff, combined with my knowledge of human anatomy, would make a fight very dangerous. In reality, most people don't have a clue how to fight. But still the thought helps to keep me in line. That brings up an idea but I'll but that in another post.

As for commercials, I usually hit the mute button and don't pay visual attention to them either. Some of them are interesting and even funny, but if I don't need what they are selling, I'm not interested. Mr. Adman has failed in his mission to instill in me the desire for something I don't need, that marketing class I had to take was quite instructive on that. Sometimes I'll see one for something that is in the ballpark of something I need and I will pay attention, but I can only think of maybe two or three things I have bought based on commercials.

[Guest guest]

Yes. I have always assumed that others knew what I knew, were as bright as I am, have the same values, etc. When I come across someone who blatently does NOT understand something as I do, I am shocked. I'm kind of stunned and find it hard to keep functioning.

An example in the workplace was taking sick leave. One time I had an afternoon appointment. I returned to work for the last hour and a half of the day. One coworker was amazed that'd I'd do that. She would have taking the rest of the day off and call it sick leave. I was stunned. Of course everyone should be honest about work. Blew me away.

and the zoo.

Aspie Assumptions

Even after discovering I was an Aspie, it took me a year or two to suddenly realize that I have been naturally assuming ALL people agree with me on certain issues (including Aspies).For example, commercials on TV: 1) I figured everybody hates them and finds them to be annoying intrusions, especially Aspies. 2) I also figured that everyone can see through the various methods advertisers use to sell their products, especially Aspies: "If Jordan buys Haines, they MUST be good, etc." But how do we know Jordan doesn't prefer to buy poorly made underwear?And yet:1) Many people, including Aspies, I suppose, enjoy them and don't find them intrusive at all, and2) Many people, including Aspies, I suppose, truly believe that Jordan wouldn't sell a product if it wasn't any good.So my questions are: 1) Do you personally assume that people, as a collective whole, think as you do regarding certain issues, or do you know people think differently as a general rule of thumb?2) And, is this way of thinking an Aspie trait, or is this something that is normal with NTs too?TomFAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

[Guest guest]

Tom:

1) Do you personally assume that people, as a collective whole, think

as you do regarding certain issues, or do you know people think

differently as a general rule of thumb?

I used to assume the same as you; that everyone hated and saw through

commercials. When my 3D mailbox was flooded with an increasing amount of the

most ibecile offers from this mail order company, that included personalized

letters with my name on the top as if the VP had written it himself to only

to ME <insert rolleyes icon here> I got so annoyed that I phoned up their

advertising manager and said I found it ridiculous: that I certainly don't

need a mass-printed letter from a company to make me feel " special " and

asked them just how stupid they thought their customers really are. To my

intense surprise he said that most customers actually LIKED this treatment

and that the ones who didn't were very few. But he did see my point and

laughingly admitted that the ones that hated it, they REALLY hated it! :-)

After this, I gave up.

I used to also assume that others like what I like. When I helped run the

rock-club, I once asked if i could be the DJ for a while. I thought if I put

on my favorite dance record, others must surely love it too. But nope. The

crowd on the dance floor evaporated like water on a hot stove. Must have

been the shortest DJ career in history. :-)

I've also stopped having birthday parties out of compassion for my

guests-to-be because I can't bring myself to serve anything unhealthy and

have absolutely no clue what " normal " people eat. On my 35th I gave them

veggie food, bubbly water or cider, and just the tiniest little bit of

icecream dessert. No cake, coffee or alcohol of course. :-) For background

music I played " Vesper for the Holy Virgin " from 1610 by Claudio Monteverdi.

I was surprised that they didn't seem to appreciate it. It's the most

beautiful music I know. *Sigh*

I've only had one birthday party since (when I turned 40). Then I was

smarter and told the guests to bring their own food, cake and cookies

instead of birthday presents. I also skipped music altogether. That worked

better. :-)

When I'm 50, I think I'll take them to a restaurant instead. (Hmm, why

didn't I think of that before?)

To summarise: I have gradually come to realise (and accept) that other

people have very different tastes, needs and ways of thinking and may not at

all appreciate the simplicity, order, logic and harmony that I strive for.

Really makes me feel like an Alien sometimes. If I could design my own city,

I'm sure no one but me - and perhaps a handful of Aspies - would like to

live in it. But on the bright side, that would be great, since I don't like

crowds either. :-)

> 2) And, is this way of thinking an Aspie trait, or is this something that

> is normal with NTs too?

I used to believe this Theory of Mind-thing about Aspies, but now I've seen

that it is actually completely mutual. In the hospital, the staff would

automatically assume that I knew of all their rules and routines without

anyone having to inform me, and my friend just got the same treatment. They

just took for granted that she would know (and adapt). When she asked for an

avocado and some salad, they were annoyed that she didn't know they had to

order it from a catering service, and that you have to ask for it in

advance. When she did ask for it in advance, they told her it has to be

ordered before a certain time and it was too late now. But she had informed

THEM first thing that she's a vegetarian, yet they did not think to inform

her that she has to order before a certain time, or ask her what she wanted

when they placed their order for the day. (So her son and me had to travel

across town to bring her food and drink so that she wouldn't starve to death

in the hospital.) :-(

Also, NTs seem to assume that everyone functions just like them. If they

like bright light, big parties and different food every meal, then everyone

should. If you don't, you're weird and should see a shrink.

Inger

[Guest guest]

>

> Even after discovering I was an Aspie, it took me a year or two to

> suddenly realize that I have been naturally assuming ALL people

agree

> with me on certain issues (including Aspies).

>

> For example, commercials on TV:

>

> 1) I figured everybody hates them and finds them to be annoying

> intrusions, especially Aspies.

Perhaps it's because I'm in the arts that I love to deconstruct

commercials for a number of reasons. I like to find the " audio

hooks " in the background music that make some commercials much more

successful than others. I like to find the continuity problems in

the 30-second commercials and figure out how the problems could have

happened. I especially love catching the little things that most

people miss in commercials.

Have you seen the commercial for IKEA where the elderly lady's

spirit leaves her body, supposedly enroute for the " white light " ?

Upon realizing she'd be leaving all her worldly IKEA possessions

behind, she snaps back into her body. For weeks, I would laugh at

the 'little thing' at the end of the commercial that no one else

seemed to catch until I pointed it out to them.

The elderly lady's husband, who appears to be quite upset she's

passed on, makes a fist and mutters, " SHOOT! " when she snaps back

into her body. I guess he isn't all that upset she might have

passed on after all. I know, I know ... black humour.

>

> 2) I also figured that everyone can see through the various

methods

> advertisers use to sell their products, especially Aspies:

>

> " If Jordan buys Haines, they MUST be good, etc. "

>

> But how do we know Jordan doesn't prefer to buy poorly

made

> underwear?

Who cares what Jordan wears? I don't do his laundry; I

don't live with him. That's the way I look at it. You can never

cajole me into considering the purchase of anything because of

celebrity endorses the product. In fact, I have a lot of respect

for the opinion of my close friends and would consider researching a

product my close friends recommended (and possibly purchasing it if

it suited my needs).

>

>

> So my questions are:

>

> 1) Do you personally assume that people, as a collective whole,

think

> as you do regarding certain issues, or do you know people think

> differently as a general rule of thumb?

I'm amazed when someone thinks similarly to me only because I've

been so shocked to learn over the years that my previous assumption

that everyone thinks in Borglike fashion. It's a conscious decision

to now assume that people have no idea whatsoever what I'm thinking

or going on about eventhough my first instinct is to believe others

know exactly what I'm thinking because surely, they must be thinking

the exact same thing.

I remember fondly how my pianist (I'm a professional musician) in

the band would shake his head and go through the scenario with me

time and again. I would provide him with the song titles and charts

for upcoming showcases and he would check them over. He would pull

out a chart or two and comment that he didn't know them.

I would always be shocked that he didn't know the song(s) and would

insist that he *did* know the song(s). He would smile and assure me

that he didn't know the song(s). I would insist that he knew the

songs because *I* knew the song(s) and if *I* knew the song(s), then

*he* knew the song(s). Again, he would chuckle, roll his eyes and

tell me that he was certain he didn't know the song(s).

My eyes would fly wide open in disbelief and ask him how he couldn't

know the song(s) if I knew the song(s). He would then laugh and

tell me that he just wasn't as smart as I was. At that point, I

would realize that I was being unreasonable in thinking he knew what

I knew by virtue of the fact that I knew what I knew.

>

> 2) And, is this way of thinking an Aspie trait, or is this

something

> that is normal with NTs too?

I've never known an NT to think the way I do. Occasionally, I've

run into Aspies who think as I do and don't need a lot of verbal

communication in order to be on the same page as I am.

I hate to sound snobbish however I find that NT's have pedantic

thought patterns for the most part. I do so love a number of NT's

in my life, but they can be so exhausting when I have to do

the 'baby steps of explaining' on subjects that are so clear to me.

I suppose that means I'm a bad person in many people's eyes but

that's just the way it is.

On a secondary note, I am raising a child who is also an Aspie and

we oftentimes interpret and perceive things similarly. He, too,

finds his classmates bothersome insofar as they appear to

like " silly " things that serve no purpose in life and to not grasp

things that my child finds so easy to understand. On the flip side,

my child fails to understand so much of what comes naturally to NT

children and adults. *sigh*

>

> Tom

[Guest guest]

Hi Raven! Very glad to see you here! You are very welcome!

Raven wrote:

>>I like to find the

continuity problems in

the 30-second commercials and figure out how the

problems could have

happened. I especially love catching the

little things that most

people miss in commercials.<<

Oh, continuity

problems! I LOVE finding them, or

at least my brain does (visual and audio)!

Movies too, and at the same time it becomes oh so annoying when I’m

really getting into a movie and there is a continuity problem I get so wrapped

up in big mistakes (at least they are to me lol) that I can’t pay

attention to the movie for a while – it destroys the illusion.

Tom wrote:

> 2) I also figured that everyone can see

through the various

methods advertisers use to sell their products,

especially Aspies:

>

> " If Jordan buys Haines, they

MUST be good, etc. "

>

> But how do we know Jordan doesn't

prefer to buy poorly

made underwear?

I don’t believe for one minute these celebrities prefer

these products over any other. In

fact, they never SAY they do.

Listen to the sentence structure. They may say they like it, that it is a

wonderful product, etc.... but mostly they will not say they use only that

brand, many times they don’t even say they use it at all. My only thought about celebrities in

commercials is, “I wonder how much he gets paid to say that?”

Tom wrote:

> 1) Do you personally assume that people, as a

collective whole,

think as

you do regarding certain issues, or do you know people think

> differently as a general rule of thumb?

I am constantly surprised that people think differently than I do,

especially dealing with ethics. I

find it very difficult to predict how a conversation or meeting will go because

they don’t think the way I do.

I shouldn’t be surprised anymore, but I am.

>> 2) And, is this way of thinking an Aspie trait, or is

this

something that is normal with NTs too?<<

I don’t think this is a normal NT thing.

Raven wrote

>>I hate to sound snobbish however I find that NT's have

pedantic

thought patterns for the most part. I do so

love a number of NT's

in my life, but they can be so exhausting when I

have to do

the 'baby steps of explaining' on subjects that

are so clear to me.<<

I find most NTs get impatient with me when I try to explain things

to them... BECAUSE they don’t think the way I do. I like to get details from people, so

that is the way I communicate. They

don’t want the details, and sometimes I know that but I just don’t

know how else to get my point across.

Wendi

[Guest guest]

<snip>

An example in the workplace was taking sick leave. One time I had an

afternoon appointment. I returned to work for the last hour and a

half of the day. One coworker was amazed that'd I'd do that. She

would have taking the rest of the day off and call it sick leave. I

was stunned. Of course everyone should be honest about work. Blew me

away.

<snip>

I've run into that too, in the past. Nowadays I have purposely

relaxed that a bit, in the direction of staying home, for 3 reasons:

a) I try to be slightly easier on myself these days

I like to avoid " scaring the straights " when possible

c) I've found that if I appear to be over-conscientious, people are

more likely to try to take advantage of that, and/or razz me more at

work

However, not long ago I did log into my company's timesheet software

remotely while on holiday, to assure I had a timesheet entered on

time. I hadn't been able to enter it before due to some missing

billing info. It only took 10 minutes, but my manager was loudly

impressed. I just thought, " gee, isn't this what anyone would have

done? " I suppose not.

Regarding assuming people know what I know, affirmative to that as

well. Many's the time I have thought an authority figure would

" automatically " know what I know, only to find out they did not.

I'm sorry to say that in my 20s and 30s, I used this to easily win

some debates with several older male relatives to whom I'd looked up

to when young, and who had a reputation in the family for being wise

authorities. I was feeling slightly arrogant, but also betrayed, as

in " how DARE they turn out not to know more than me? " The poor

guys... fortunately I learned better, and made it clear to them later

how much I respected them.

Regarding parties, music etc... yep. There was a girl who liked me in

high school, who many times endured " Walter and the

Well-Tempered Synthesizer " . Cheryl, if you're out there, sorry!

Nowadays, I think I am pretty good at giving people what they like in

these regards. I know how to mix various drinks, keep the ingredients

on hand, serve unhealthy fatty (but popular) food at parties, and

stick to more or less mainstream music, though I'm happy to say that

my guests tend to be eclectic enough that we can occasionally throw

something unusual on.

However, I WILL say that I seem to have only a certain amount of

" energy store " for this sort of thing. After a certain amount of

socialising with the straights, I need to get away by myself for a

while. I also need to watch myself, so I know when I am getting to

that point, else I have found I can start getting stressed out and

snappish. Fortunately I have gotten reasonably good at that.

Throwing a successful party and making people feel happy and

comfortable around me, and having agreeable companionship, is

something I find very gratifying. Unfortunately, it seems that the

behaviours associated with those things are not 100% my natural state,

and very likely never will be.

[Guest guest]

Untill I was diagnoced (sophomore in hs) I thought that no one thought

like me. was rather depressing really. I was so happy when I found

out that I had AS because that meant that at least SOME people thought

like me and I wasn't a total freak after all.

>

>

> <snip>

> An example in the workplace was taking sick leave. One time I had an

> afternoon appointment. I returned to work for the last hour and a

> half of the day. One coworker was amazed that'd I'd do that. She

> would have taking the rest of the day off and call it sick leave. I

> was stunned. Of course everyone should be honest about work. Blew me

> away.

> <snip>

>

> I've run into that too, in the past. Nowadays I have purposely

> relaxed that a bit, in the direction of staying home, for 3 reasons:

>

> a) I try to be slightly easier on myself these days

> I like to avoid " scaring the straights " when possible

> c) I've found that if I appear to be over-conscientious, people are

> more likely to try to take advantage of that, and/or razz me more at

> work

>

> However, not long ago I did log into my company's timesheet software

> remotely while on holiday, to assure I had a timesheet entered on

> time. I hadn't been able to enter it before due to some missing

> billing info. It only took 10 minutes, but my manager was loudly

> impressed. I just thought, " gee, isn't this what anyone would have

> done? " I suppose not.

>

> Regarding assuming people know what I know, affirmative to that as

> well. Many's the time I have thought an authority figure would

> " automatically " know what I know, only to find out they did not.

>

> I'm sorry to say that in my 20s and 30s, I used this to easily win

> some debates with several older male relatives to whom I'd looked up

> to when young, and who had a reputation in the family for being wise

> authorities. I was feeling slightly arrogant, but also betrayed, as

> in " how DARE they turn out not to know more than me? " The poor

> guys... fortunately I learned better, and made it clear to them later

> how much I respected them.

>

> Regarding parties, music etc... yep. There was a girl who liked me in

> high school, who many times endured " Walter and the

> Well-Tempered Synthesizer " . Cheryl, if you're out there, sorry!

>

> Nowadays, I think I am pretty good at giving people what they like in

> these regards. I know how to mix various drinks, keep the ingredients

> on hand, serve unhealthy fatty (but popular) food at parties, and

> stick to more or less mainstream music, though I'm happy to say that

> my guests tend to be eclectic enough that we can occasionally throw

> something unusual on.

>

> However, I WILL say that I seem to have only a certain amount of

> " energy store " for this sort of thing. After a certain amount of

> socialising with the straights, I need to get away by myself for a

> while. I also need to watch myself, so I know when I am getting to

> that point, else I have found I can start getting stressed out and

> snappish. Fortunately I have gotten reasonably good at that.

>

> Throwing a successful party and making people feel happy and

> comfortable around me, and having agreeable companionship, is

> something I find very gratifying. Unfortunately, it seems that the

> behaviours associated with those things are not 100% my natural state,

> and very likely never will be.

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and

acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>