Re: Medication

[Guest guest]

Greebo:

> Was just wondering if anyone here takes medication for aspects relating to

autism and does it help?

> At the moment the doctor has me on something called 'Fluanxol', which she

tells me is meant to help me with anxiety and supposedly has a calming

affect. Well so far it hasn't had any affect so she's just upped my dose. So

if I start falling asleep at the keyboard I'll know it's working

Hi, ,

About 12 years ago I started getting inexplicable anxiety attacks, could

hardly sleep or eat, thought I was going mad and just wanted to die. I was

given Fluanxol plus sleeping pills, and also made sure to take extra

vitamins and minarals since I couldn't eat solid food. After a month or two

my mood stabilized a little, but only superficially, as if I had just put a

band-aid on it but not solved the real problem.

What it mainly did was increase my weight by 20 kilograms - which felt

wonderful since I had been too skinny and before. Like many other of the

older anti-depressants and sedatives, Fluanxol is flouride-based, and any

halogen with a lighter atomic weight than iodine tends to get absorbed by

the thyroid instead of iodine, thereby possibly inducing mild

hypothyroidism, which in turn may cause overweight and fatigue (that's how I

speculate that it happens anyway). It is not an immediate relaxant, and its

effects are said to not be noticable until about 6 to 8 weeks after start. I

felt neither relaxed nor tired; I was just as keyed-up as before I started

taking them and had to be constantly active.

What helped me more was probably the sleeping pills, since I stopped feeling

as if I was losing my mind as soon as I could sleep properly. Also the

advice from an alternative therapist whom a friend had sent to see me. Her

one visit got me going in the right direction and after that I became

gradually better. But only to a degree. I was still hyper-restless and prone

to getting intense, sudden crying- and anger attacks for little or no

reason. After about a year I quit both the Fluanxol and the sleeping pills

and have not taken any medication since.

As I may have told before I eventually figured out what was causing my

instable mood. In MY case it was a combination of wrong diet and subtle

stress from not having the quiet and peace of mind a sensitive person such

as myself really needs in order to function optimally. As soon as I got this

house in the country with no cars or neighbors close by, plus my own

assistant to act as a filter between me and the rest of the world, I started

feeling better without any medication at all. But I still got the

inexplicable outburts. These did not stop completely until about 5-6 years

ago when I quit eating anything with MSG or sugar (including fructose,

dextrose, lactose etc. and even sweetish veggies), Since then, my mood has

been amazingly stable (except a day or two before period time but that's

only natural). The difference is so marked that I can't but deduce that my

problems were mostly due to sensitivity to these things.

After reading Kathleen des Maisons' " Potatos - not Prozac " (warmly

recommended!) it became crystal clear to me that I have what she calls a

sugar-sensitive disposition. For such individuals, sugar is like cocain;

just as addictive and just as toxic. And looking back, I can see a clear

pattern of being most imbalanced during those times when I ate the most

sugar and the least amount of protein. Becoming a vegetrian usually makes

people feel better, but not me. That time I was getting the inexplicable

anxiety attacks, I was actually living on yoghurt and bananas (lactose and

fructose), canned veggie soup (plenty of MSG) and huge quanities of orange

juice (a LOT of fructose!) and no protein at all. No wonder I was nearly

climbing the walls and couldn't sleep! Soon as I quit the orange juice and

everything else sweet, I no longer needed the sleeping pills.

Naturally, the causes for one's problems may vary from person to person, but

I think many sensitive people undersestimate the dramatic effect wrong

diet/additives and other environmental factors may have on a super-delicate

nervous system and digestive system. I think I've written before (but not

sure where) about studies that have linked all sorts of mental problems to

hypersensitivity to various food items, and I see that others here are

thinking along the same lines.

http://www.panix.com/~donwiss/reichelt.html

http://www.feingold.org/programdetails.html

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/sugarblues.html

Here is a natural remedy to help stabilize blood sugar, and reduce hunger &

sugar cravings (an aspie in our Swedish forum recommended it, he says it

actually helps):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/2947810.stm

Inger

[Guest guest]

>>>>> :

There was an article published recently that said there may be a

physiological reason for depression. It has been found that many people who

suffer from chronic depression have more nerves in a part of the brain than

other people. I think this was the amygdilla (spelling) part of the brain.

'Amygdala'

>>>>> Oddly enough I can see the region anatomically but can't think of the

name.

Could be a sign of right-brain dominance. Do you find it easier to think in

pictures than in words? My biggest problem is with names of actors. I can

see their face so clearly often their name may take anything from minutes to

hours to retrieve from wherever my memory decided to store it.

>>>>> Anyway, they have more nerves by as much as a third.

Wow! That's a big difference! But were they born with then or did they

develop as a result of USING that part of the brain more? If I remember

correctly, the Amygdala is connected to our instincts and primal feelings.

>>>>> This probably also applies to other conditions like anxiety. I think

this is so because no matter what coping methods I try, the anxiety doesn't

go away. The only thing that really works is the medication. Of course, its

not bad all the time, just when a major stressor comes along.

It seems that some people are simply a lot more sensitive than others and

easily get extremely stressed by various social and/or environmental

pressures (including subtle things like the weather, and anything short of

total safety in social situations and total harmony in relationships).

Tom:

>>>> I can't say I've read the article, but if it's legitimate, it would

certainly explain a lot about why it is AS people suffer anxiety.

>>>> How many of us have spoken on this and other boards about

super-sensitivity to light, touch, taste, smell, hearing, etc.? Obviously

our sensitivities could be due either to a different construction of the

nerve cells, or a proliferation of the cells themselves.

Yep.

>>>> I have read that folks on the autism spectrum have bigger (not

necessarily better) brains than those not on the spectrum. Why our

brains would be bigger is something I won't speculate on. But size-

wise at least we are different.

Leif think's it's due to Neanderthal genes. :-)

>>>> I think depression would come easier for AS people anyway simply

because (aside from the annoyances many of us feel due to heightened

senses) every moment that we interact among the NT world we must

realize on some level that we do not entirely fit in, and we must

also realize that the world that they have created for themselves

and continue to control is not ideal for us.

Right.

>>>> I do believe that if we lived in ideal environments and societies

that had been created by Aspergians for Aspergians, the depression

many of us experience would be reduced if not eliminated entirely,

the idea being that though we have physiological differences, the

lifestyles we'd live and the habitations we'd live in would be built

and suited to accomodate those differences, and so the stress

normally associated with the NT world would be non-existent, and

thus no longer and influential factor in our phisiological mindsets.

That's what I think too. Especially after having personally experienced how

wonderful it is possible to feel after getting a lifestile suited to my

needs + Aspie friends who have similar values and ways of functioning as

myself. Now it doesn't really bother me so much that the rest of the world

is not suited for people like me; at least I have my own microcosm in it

where I can function painlessly.

>>>> But until that time, or until those things take place, we PERHAPS must

unfortunately resign ourselves to the fact that medication MIGHT have to

play a role in our lives indefinitely.

Yes, for SOME, medication does seem to be the only current alternative.

Among the Aspies and ADHDers I know, it seems that a majority is on some

form of medication or another.

Wendi:

>>> I believe what Tom is saying above is related to the theory (and I am

paraphrasing badly) that the brain makes more connections than it

should...the brain is supposed to 'learn' which connections to use and then

the unused connections dye off, but in brains of people with autism, all the

connections are being used (=larger brain). If I can find the article I

read recently, I will post it.

Please do.

>>> They are also finding this in people with sensory processing disorder

(SPD - used to be called sensory integration dysfunction) - which explains

all the hyper- and hypo-sensitivities people on the autism spectrum have.

As I wrote on the Parent's forum at AI, I question using the words

" disorder " and " dysfunction " when it comes to having senses that are simply

more delicate, finely tuned and able to pick up impressions which those with

less sensitive nervous systems miss. We hardly call a dog " disordered " for

hearing frequecies we can't hear, do we? Being a Híghly Sensitive Person is

a gift and not a disorder.

http://www.sensitiveperson.com/

http://www.hsperson.com/

>>> Consider a light touch activating many nerve pathways in the brain

instead of just one like people without SPD have happen.

Actually, this makes a LOT of sense! I think I've written before about the

various studies on electrosensitive people done here in Sweden, where the

researchers were surprised to find that about 25 % of their respective

groups were dramatically more sensitive than others, not only to flicker

from fluorescent light and computer screens but also to unexpected sound and

touch (showing as noticable changes in ECG, EEG etc). If you are such a

sensitive individual, even the most subtle impression may have profound

effect on your nervous system. It is then perfectly logical that it doesn't

take much for it to go into " red alert " mode and activate all available

" personel " thereby keeping nerves working overtime and growing as they keep

getting activated.

For me, just coming into a room with bright colors or much noice is enough

to put my receptors on " red alert " and activate a flee reaction - which is

healthy for one as delicate as myself. (Last time I went clubbing after I

got this sensitive, the loudness of the music actually did harm me.)

>>> Motor planning issues have been explained by this as well, stating the

possibility that the brain is using the 'wrong' pathways to retrieve motor

plans so the person can't do things he has already learned.

Hmm... interesting theory.

>>> SPD researchers have been theorizing this long before they found it in

MRI studies.

>>> Some people with autism hear words, but at times they have no meaning.

Auditory input going through the wrong pathways?

Or being in an altered state? In total right brain mode without access to

the word-decoding regions in the left hemisphere?

>>> It doesn't surprise me one bit about them finding this so with anxiety

and depression as well. Same stimuli as a person without the extra

connections, different internal reaction due to more connections firing!

Yes! It's probably exactly the same with allergies. Same stimuli but one

person gets really ill whereas another has no reaction at all.

>>> Oh dear, I feel a research obsession coming on... now it is later and I'

m really hooked... if you don't see me for a couple of days, that's where I'

ll be logging my internet time! I'll let you know what I find out!

Please do.

Tom:

>> Let me point out that even with the overwhelming senses, I'd rather have

them than not have them. If what you're saying is true (and I have read

similar) it would mean that the brain disallows and disposes of mechanisms

not necessary to function in the environment in which the body makes its

home.

>> This is a bad thing because what if you relocate to an entirely different

environment altogether? It would prolong the time it takes to adapt to this

new environment. But if you still have neurological and synaptic function,

you can learn and adapt more quickly to what is new, provided you can

reconcile it against the memories of other environments.

If you are super-responsive to your environment, it can be both an advantage

and a disadvantage. The advantage is that you become more acutely aware of

what is not good for you and are thereby able to try and avoid it, whereas

others who do not have as keen senses on the one hand mightn't react as

strongly (which is an advantage to them), but may still be adversely

affected in the long run and not even notice until too late. Even if MCS

comes as part of the package with my sensitivity, I would not want to be

without having this very good alarm when it comes to toxic chemicals.

>> Sort of like learning two languages. You live in with one and then move

to another country. Could someone with our synaptic function pick up a new

language quicker? Only studies could prove it, but I am willing to bet it

might be true.

Very interesting theory! I am super-receptive to new languages! I just soak

them up like a sponge and have almost learned Italian from just watching my

favorite Italian series on TV. I've learned English pretty much

automatically from talking to my American cousins and reading mainly in

English ever since my early teens.

>> Now retention of what is new is an entirely different proposition as you

have noted below. Possibly certain skills are not imprinted and stored as

deeply as they should be only because the circuits in the brain are kept

open and receptive to all new input. And so because of the constant flux of

continuing adaptations, no firm memory is created or confirmed enough to be

retained well.

Wow, that could explain why I have such relatively vague and fluffy memory

retention. Even after 40, my mind still feels very flexible and relatively

malleable. I have very few absolutely fixed ideas. Even my spiritual beliefs

are more like a 'working hypothesis of high probability, until further facts

are obtainable', than any absolute certainty. And I've amended my world view

many times over. If I get a new fact or experience that proves a previous

belief incorrect, it usually takes me only a few minutes to ditch or adjust

the old one. This way, I feel as if I've lived many lifetimes in this single

life because I've gone through so many stages of physical, emotional, mental

and spiritual metamorphosis, and still feel open to new views and

experiences.

Wendi:

> Yes, yes! One would think someone with SPD would be able to live longer

if transplanted to, let's say, a more rural area or even (for the sake of

discussion) the wild. I'd bet if someone did MRI studies on the brains of

Aborigines (sp?) or those living in the Outback of Australia they would find

a high occurrence of brain 'overgrowth' and SPD. And think of how these

people must not be able to cope if and when they come to a more modern city!

I'd bet they'd appear autistic!

Very likely, yes. An incredibly interesting analogy. My aspie assistant, who

is a very natural person and has always felt at odds with our current

civilization, felt immediately at home when he came to Australia and met

Aboriginials. And they noticed it in him too; that he was different from the

average white. VERY different. They even gave him an honorary name and

invited him to stay with them - which is really, really rare; they have very

rigid rules for where whites are allowed. I think neuro-atypical people

spontaneously recognize each other, wherever in the world they may originate

from.

> In a natural (or un-natural) catastrophe, one would think a person with

heightened sensitivity be more likely to survive. Faster reactions to

sensory inputs, a need for certain things to produce an anxiety/fight/flight

response, not needing the social contact, ability to find ways of using

things for what they were not intended to meet needs - thinking 'outside the

box'...

Right!

> Makes me think maybe mother nature is preparing the race for something,

eh? I keep thinking this is an evolutionary process... but the need isn't

there (yet?) so it doesn't make sense. In today's society it would make

more sense to get rid of the hyper-sensitivities...

This is SO close to the intuitions I've gotten too! That we are 'the next

step in evolution' but that our time has not quite come yet, so those of us

who are the avant garde have a very tough time in modern society which seems

hell-bent on trying to dullen our senses as much as possible from as early

as possible, through media, medication, fluorescent lights, cigarettes,

additives, stress, noise etc., etc.

> Ask me about my theories on the rise of autism sometime... they didn't go

over well with non-AS parents lol.

:-) I'd love to hear them!

Inger

[Guest guest]

Wendi:

> The reason I'm going for a dx (if I can get up the nerve to actually mail

back these forms now) is because of the anxiety and possible medication. I

have found through research that people with any type of autism need to take

very, very low doses of these meds. Sometimes an anti-anxiety med might be

*causing* more anxiety simply

because the dosage is too high. I know adults who do well on a child's

dosage.

I belive there are different types of Aspies, most of which react oddly to

meds. The physically hypersensitive type usually reacts very strongly even

to the most minute doses. I am one of them. When I took sleeping pills, I

needed only half of 0,5 mg to go out like a log, whereas my mom can take two

10 mg pills and still have trouble falling asleep! (Those more

mathematically gifted can perhaps figure out the ratio between these

extremes?)

> Even knowing this, I feel frightened about going on to meds. I'm glad to

be going to a psychologist first. I am very sensitive to most drugs and

react badly to many, even antibiotics.

Then it's a good idea to be extremely careful!

> But my anxiety is getting out of control - (getting? more like 'has been')

and I'm having more and more meltdowns lately... and this has just got to be

affecting my family!

Could you describe this anxiety and meltdowns in more detail? Do you know

why they occur?

> My GP wanted to put me on meds a while ago (and I didn't even tell her

anything!), and I refused because of what I said the other day. Doctors

look at me and see a woman with 4 yr old triplets with autism and think

STRESS and think that is the only cause, but I know differently. I'm not

going to act like some saint and say my kids are not a cause of stress,

either! But they are not the only cause of my anxiety. I had major

problems before the kids came along (which I thought were 'normal' but

everyone else did a better job of dealing with) and they just don't see

that. Why? I can't tell them. Sometimes I want to, but the words won't

come out.

Try with us, if you feel comfortable enough in doing so. I'd be very

interested to learn more about why these things happen to people. It may

help me be of better help to other Aspies.

> So... that's why I feel a dx is important. If anyone is going to help me,

they need to know what they are treating! I said I'm glad I'm going to a

psychologist - and that is because psychologists cannot prescribe meds.

Good thinking, Wendi!

> I don't believe meds are the first solution. I don't know what is, but I

want to try other things first. Plus, my husband is very against me taking

them since his friend's wife went on anti-anxiety meds and tried to kill

herself - off them she is not suicidal... he's afraid I may get like that

too.

Very understandable concern.

> I don't have time to experiment either! What if I take something and feel

all drugged up? I react very strongly to meds, I was sedated a couple of

times and the 'normal' dosage " just to relax you a bit " was way too much for

me - I was out cold and the doctors were terrified because they couldn't

wake me up! (Ever wake up in an operating room with 10 doctors and nurses

rushing around like maniacs, most of who were NOT there when you went to

sleep, some of them screaming your name, with a look of complete terror on

the anesthesiologist's face? It happened at the dentist once too, with

'sweet air'.)

Same with me when I had an operation on orthopedic operation. They never saw

a patient go out that fast. And just half a dose the normal, totally

harmless cylocain at the dentist is enough to almost put me to sleep. Often

they've had to actually wake me up when it's over. :-)

> If that happens, how will I be able to function? What happens to the

kids? I have help once in a while from relatives, but not all the time and

I need to let them know in advance if I have an appt and need them to watch

the kids. They live too far away to come over here without notice.

I can really understand your worry then. Wouldn't it be great if you could

find the actual cause of the anxiety and see if you can solve that instead

of having to medicate?

> I won't even take migraine medication because I'm afraid I may not be able

to function. There is nobody else to take care of my kids! Granted I'm not

functioning very well with a migraine either, but at least I know I can

function minimally.

Do you know what triggers your migraine? How long have you had it?

Inger

[Guest guest]

Wendi wrote:

>>> They are also finding this in people

with sensory processing disorder

(SPD - used to be called sensory integration

dysfunction) - which explains

all the hyper- and hypo-sensitivities people on the autism

spectrum have.

Inger Wrote:

>As I wrote on the

Parent's forum at AI, I question using the words

> " disorder " and " dysfunction " when it

comes to having senses that are simply

>more delicate, finely tuned and able to pick up impressions

which those with

>less sensitive nervous systems miss. We hardly call a dog

" disordered " for

>hearing frequecies we can't hear,

do we? Being a Híghly Sensitive Person is

>a gift and not a disorder.

>http://www.sensitiveperson.com/

>http://www.hsperson.com/

Yes, Inger, I agree

about the words ‘disorder’ and ‘dysfunction’ –

was only trying to give the names so someone can look them up if they wanted

to.

Inger wrote:

>Actually, this makes a

LOT of sense! I think I've

written before about the

>various studies on electrosensitive people done here in Sweden, where the

>researchers were surprised to find that about 25 % of their

respective

>groups were dramatically more sensitive than others, not

only to flicker

>from fluorescent light and computer screens but also to

unexpected sound and

>touch (showing as noticable changes in ECG, EEG etc).

Wendi wrote:

>>> Oh dear, I feel a research obsession

coming on... now it is later and I'

m really hooked... if you don't see me for a

couple of days, that's where I'

ll be logging my internet time! I'll let you

know what I find out!

Inger wrote:

>Please do.

I’m not getting on very well with this – keep getting

sidetracked with very interesting articles instead!  Life keeps interfering as well.

Inger wrote:

>My aspie assistant, who

>is a very natural person and has always felt at odds with

our current

>civilization, felt immediately at home when he came to Australia and met

>Aboriginials. And they noticed it in him too; that he was different from

the

>average white.

VERY different. They even gave him an honorary name and

>invited him to stay with them - which is really, really

rare; they have very

>rigid rules for where whites are allowed. I think

neuro-atypical people

>spontaneously recognize each other, wherever in the world

they may originate

>from.

Did he stay with them?  That

is amazing!

Wendi wrote:

Ø

Ask me about my theories on the rise of autism

sometime... they didn't go

over well with non-AS parents lol.

Ø Inger wrote:

:-) I'd love to hear them!

Someday soon!

(Oh cool, where did

those funky ‘>’ characters come from?  I like them!)

Wendi