Re: Re: HCG versus testosterone for hypogonadism

[Guest guest]

Although I know nothing about these drugs in men, I do know about them in women

and what they do. A good friend of mine is going through fertility treatments

and has used both Clomid and HSG. Because fertility is not covered by

insurance, she has had to pay for the meds herself. The Clomid 150mg was $150

for 5 days worth, and the HCG (she wasn't sure of the mg amount but it was a

1cc dose) was $65. I am amazed that insurance will pay for this in men for

this indication, but not for women who need it for fertility treatments.

By the way, the brand name of HCG called Ovidril is made by...... (drum roll

please)---Serono!!!

Aimee

Quoting remmitt@...:

> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:31:47 -0000

>   

>

> " I have had exactly this question and concern for some time.  I first

> went on testosterone replacement when mine was very low, and now I'm

> concerned that once on injections, my body will never make its own

> again.  Also concerened about atrophy, since they now having nothing

> to do! 

>

> Anyway, my question is-- assuming my Doc is pretty up on this-- am I

> likely to get resistance from the insurance company if he prescribes

> it for me instead of testosterone?  Is it really expensive,

> especially compared to testosterone?   And, if I self-inject my

> testosterone-- can I likely do it with this HCG also? "

>

>

> J.S.,

>

> Though somewhat flattered by having refer to me as an " expert "   on HCG

> use to restore testosterone levels, I'll answer as many of your questions as

> I can.

>

> I have used HCG plus Arimidex a couple of  times to restore testosterone

> levels after having taken testosterone injections that caused my testes to

> shrink.  The Arimidex at 1/2 tablet every other day (odd numbered days is how

> I

> remember) keeps down the conversion of HCG-stimulated testosterone to

> estrogen,

> which HCG is notorious for causing.  Arimidex also boosts blood levels of

> free

> testosterone by about 50%.  & Mooney's Built To Survive has a section

> on

> using HCG for raising the pituitary secretion of lutenizing hormone, which

> stimulates the testes. They suggest 5000 units once a week, with Clomid

> (clomiphene citrate) which acts like Arimidex to keep down estrogen.

>

> Drug Facts & Comparisons (medical library or pharmacist) suggests three

> different injection schedules for men with hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. 

> My

> endocrinologist, Eugene Shippen, suggests 1000 mg subcutaneous HCG MWF for

> gradual

> restoration of testosterone or for continuous use in men who are hypogonadal.

>

> I find that I have more desire with HCG than with testosterone and fewer

> side-effects (difficulty or pain on urinating, etc.), if the estrogen problem

> is

> compensated with other meds. The shots are no problem: about 1 cc subcu 1/2

> inch fine needle compared with 1 1/2 inch large gauge needle IM for the

> oil-based

> androgens.  I've never encountered any problems with Blue Cross coverage and

> I believe costs are comparable or even cheaper, though this may vary with

> insurance company.

>

> Shippen, in his book, The Testosterone Syndrome (M. & Co., New York,

> ISBN: 0-87131-829-6), reports good results with libido (desire) and ED,

> though

> this may change with aging.  He mentions in his book that some men he's

> treated

> have had to switch to continuous testosterone because HCG no longer works for

> them. This would mean primary hypogonadism (testicular failure: the testes no

> longer produce, even with increased HCG stimulation).

>

> Other possible differences:  Although the medical literature I've seen

> suggests some possible HCG muscle-building benefit, it is not as well

> documented

> (not as marked?) as the effect with testosterone. There are no Pub Med

> articles

> suggesting that extended HCG use can lead to obstructive sleep apnea as

> testosterone use can.

>

> Bob Emmitt

>

>

>

>