RE: looking for English alternative to illegitimacy (child)

[Guest guest]

I'd use 'to be born out of wedlock'.

Illegitimicay is definitely out, IMO.

[Guest guest]

Is this a medical dictionary? As archaic as it may sound, Dorland's lists

" bastard " as a medical term (synonym: illegitimate). The noun is

" bastardy " (talk about archaic). " Extramarital childbirth " is quite

current, and is used by NIH, among others.

Creutz

Weymouth, MA, USA

looking for English alternative to " illegitimacy " (child)

Dear colleagues,

I'm editing/proofing a Serbian and Croatian dictionary and the source

word is vanbracnost (noun), currently translated as illegitimacy.

Vanbracni (adj.) literally means 'out of wedlock,' which I prefer to

'illegitimate,' especially as these terms are, as in English,

frequently used to modify " child. " (My initials are PG, but you can

call me PC.) I have a legal dictionary that also lists adulterine,

extraconjugal and extramarital for this adjective. OK fine.

But how to translate the noun? So far, all I can come up with is

'state of being/ocurring out of wedlock.' I'm not sure if 'unmarried

state' will work, but am checking with the dictionary author. Possibly

'extramarital state' or 'extraconjugal state.'

Do any of you know of other American English terms currently in use

for this condition (that is, being born of two persons who are not

married to each other)?

[Guest guest]

I agree, that is what I have seen: children born out of wedlock.

Mirtes

Re: looking for English alternative to " illegitimacy " (child)

>

>

> I'd use 'to be born out of wedlock'.

>

> Illegitimicay is definitely out, IMO.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello, a. The Black's registers " illegitimacy " and " bastardy " ; in

addition to these, the Wordnet lists " bar sinister " .

And Google gives the following results:

nonmarital childbearing = 40,700

nonmarital births = 31,000

birth out-of-wedlock = 21,900

out-of-wedlock birth = 49,700

out-of-wedlock births = 212,000

----

Hope to be of some help.

Best luck,

*----------* Illegitimacy. 2. The status of a person who is born outside a

lawful marriage and who is not later legitimated by the parents. — Also

termed *bastardy*.

(Black's Law Dictionary, 8th Edition, ISBN 0-314-15199-0)

------------

*bar sinister*

n 1: the status of being born to parents who were not married [syn:

bastardy<http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bastardy>,

illegitimacy <http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=illegitimacy>] 2: a

mark of bastardy; lines from top right to bottom left [syn: bend

sinister<http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bend%20sinister>

]

Source <http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=00-database-info & db=wn>:

*WordNet

® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University*

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bar%20sinister --------------------

2006/6/30, a :

>

> Dear colleagues,

> I'm editing/proofing a Serbian and Croatian dictionary and the source

> word is vanbracnost (noun), currently translated as illegitimacy.

> Vanbracni (adj.) literally means 'out of wedlock,' which I prefer to

> 'illegitimate,' especially as these terms are, as in English,

> frequently used to modify " child. " (My initials are PG, but you can

> call me PC.) I have a legal dictionary that also lists adulterine,

> extraconjugal and extramarital for this adjective. OK fine.

>

> But how to translate the noun? So far, all I can come up with is

> 'state of being/ocurring out of wedlock.' I'm not sure if 'unmarried

> state' will work, but am checking with the dictionary author. Possibly

> 'extramarital state' or 'extraconjugal state.'

>

> Do any of you know of other American English terms currently in use

> for this condition (that is, being born of two persons who are not

> married to each other)?

>

> Thank you very much for your consideration!

> Best regards,

> a

>

> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

> a Gordon

> ATA member (active)

> Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian > English translation

> English editing and proofreading

> Msg/fax in USA:

> E-mail: paula@...

> URL: http://www.dbaPlanB.com

-----------

> Cedeño Berrueta

> Traductor Público / Certified Translator

> Caracas, Venezuela

> manceber@...

> mcedenoberrueta@...

> mcedenoberrueta@...

[Guest guest]

Thank you, , , --

These are good ideas, and I am glad to know what is in use by NIH.

(Yes, this is a medical dictionary, but it contains terms from the

social sciences and other fields a medical translator might run into.)

I will suggest to the author that we steer clear of bastardy and

illegitimacy (or put them in context in some way), at least in the

'into English' volume. But we can't control the documents that need to

be translated, so I think those terms have to appear in the 'from

English' volume (as do many others that are considered archaic or

vulgar or questionable in some way). The source term, vanbracnost, is

merely descriptive (no inherent negative overtones, as far as I know),

and I would like to match that in English.

It's so nice to get a second (and third, and fourth) opinion!

Thank you again,

a

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

a Gordon

ATA member (active)

Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian > English translation

English editing and proofreading

Msg/fax in USA:

E-mail: paula@...

URL: http://www.dbaPlanB.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01/07/2006 01:42:19 GMT Daylight Time, cgcolin@...

writes:

I think that you may use instead of illegitimacy--- unlawful

Absolutely the wrong term here.

[Guest guest]

Good morning everyone.

Careful about " extramarital child " , as I believe it is actually used to

refer to a married person whose spouse is not the other parent.

Best regards,

looking for English alternative to " illegitimacy "

(child)

Dear colleagues,

I'm editing/proofing a Serbian and Croatian dictionary and the

source

word is vanbracnost (noun), currently translated as

illegitimacy.

Vanbracni (adj.) literally means 'out of wedlock,' which I

prefer to

'illegitimate,' especially as these terms are, as in English,

frequently used to modify " child. " (My initials are PG, but you

can

call me PC.) I have a legal dictionary that also lists

adulterine,

extraconjugal and extramarital for this adjective. OK fine.

But how to translate the noun? So far, all I can come up with is

'state of being/ocurring out of wedlock.' I'm not sure if

'unmarried

state' will work, but am checking with the dictionary author.

Possibly

'extramarital state' or 'extraconjugal state.'

Do any of you know of other American English terms currently in

use

for this condition (that is, being born of two persons who are

not

married to each other)?

Thank you very much for your consideration!

Best regards,

a

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

a Gordon

ATA member (active)

Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian > English translation

English editing and proofreading

Msg/fax in USA:

E-mail: paula@... <mailto:paula%40dbaPlanB.com>

URL: http://www.dbaPlanB.com <http://www.dbaPlanB.com>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, somethings obviously missing here. I meant:

" .... to refer to the child of a married person whose other parent is

not the married person's spouse.

Hope that's somewhat clearer ...

Regards,

looking for English alternative to " illegitimacy "

(child)

Dear colleagues,

I'm editing/proofing a Serbian and Croatian dictionary and the

source

word is vanbracnost (noun), currently translated as

illegitimacy.

Vanbracni (adj.) literally means 'out of wedlock,' which I

prefer to

'illegitimate,' especially as these terms are, as in English,

frequently used to modify " child. " (My initials are PG, but you

can

call me PC.) I have a legal dictionary that also lists

adulterine,

extraconjugal and extramarital for this adjective. OK fine.

But how to translate the noun? So far, all I can come up with is

'state of being/ocurring out of wedlock.' I'm not sure if

'unmarried

state' will work, but am checking with the dictionary author.

Possibly

'extramarital state' or 'extraconjugal state.'

Do any of you know of other American English terms currently in

use

for this condition (that is, being born of two persons who are

not

married to each other)?

Thank you very much for your consideration!

Best regards,

a

-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --

a Gordon

ATA member (active)

Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian > English translation

English editing and proofreading

Msg/fax in USA:

E-mail: paula@... <mailto:paula%40dbaPlanB.com>

<mailto:paula%40dbaPlanB.com>

URL: http://www.dbaPlanB.com <http://www.dbaPlanB.com>

<http://www.dbaPlanB.com <http://www.dbaPlanB.com> >

[Guest guest]

Greetings.

The original terms of (noun) [ bastard ] and (adjectivals) [ bastardy /

bastardly ] should suffice, as they are established technical terms i.e., the

type of metal file called " bastard file. "

Hope this helps restore some clarity and reduce mental flailing exercises.

Regards,

H. e

San Pedro, California

[Guest guest]

Unless we are calling for a return of shunning and sending people to the

stocks, the words bastard, bastardly and bastardy have no meaning with

regard to human beings a legal context. They might be established technical

terms for files and such (not to mention useful insults) but they are not

used to describe children.

'Out of wedlock' is pretty much the only good way to render the concept in

current English.

Cheers,

Debbie

[Guest guest]

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 06:15:44 +1000, T. Creutz

wrote:

> Yes, as the product of an extramarital affair. A better, less

> ambiguous term in current vogue is " nonmarital child. " NIH uses this

> too, as well as " nonmarital childbirth. " It is eminently

> inoffensive.

>

Just give it time. It's not inherently offensive or inoffensive, it's just

the current preferred euphemism. And that's what it sounds like, a

euphemism.

I'd stick with " born out of wedlock " which has stood the test of time and,

as far as I know, still isn't offensive.

Heath

--

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