Re: Re: To Toni: today, tomorrow, and the days after

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Because of false piety mixed with self righteousness and a doze of fear, the

authorities in most mainstream churches and the Pharisee's in the

congregation, feel that we cannot and must not be angry with G-d. what

sacrilege.!!That is neither true Christianity nor true Judaism. It is

demeaning to think we are to mouth nothing but supplications , and an

occasional thanks to the Deity.

It shows that none of those so called " churchgoers " have any in depth

knowledge or love for G-d. They certainly do not take Him/Her/It seriously.

They propitiate so they won't anger him because they are afraid.

Obviously no one of these ever read the old Testament. Those who were the

most pious, who loved G-d the most, and who cared the most about their

relationship with their Lord, felt perfectly free to speak their minds.

Raising one's fist against G-d when one has a grievance against him, is a

natural, pious,honest way to communicate. If G-d had wanted automatons, he

would have created them, instead of giving us the dignity of free will, and

a right to refuse his wooing.

If we take the All, the image of G-d we have made our own ,seriously, we

would realize that anger is a perfectly natural feeling as we frustrated

human beings find we can't get our act together.

St of Avila, who took her G-d very seriously, but also had a great

sense of humor told him once...she said ; " If this is the way you treat your

friends,Lord, no wonder you have so few. "

She was talking to " His Majesty " as she also called him, yet she said what

her honesty required at that moment.-----

What king of a relationship can continue if one person is constantly walking

on eggs?

WE either know in our very bones that we are loved, or we have no

relationship.( that is my experience,) If we are loved, an angry word is

part of any relationship, no one can be adoring and lovey dovey and keep his

distance from the other, at the same time. Not unless he is afraid of the

reaction and fears being unacceptable. How often have we been told in

Scripture that our G-d Image is one of love? If you love someone, even we

human being,s don't quit loving because the other has a bone to pick with

us Even we don't say... " you are no longer acceptable because you dare to be

honest and be angry.

( After ,my father died, my mother found herself in very " straightened

circumstances. " She was angry with her husband that he had left her in that

state and she was angry at G-d for letting him die and leaving her in such a

fix. I told her that was OK to admit those feelings. .It was something that

required her awareness, and she could admit her feelings. But she could

never admit her anger at her dead husband now that he was dead, and she was

horrified that I could even suggest she was angry with G-d. Anyone who knew

her and loved her saw her constant repression of her real feelings...but she

could not admit them) Instead she thought i was " awful " to suggest such a

thing.She said,with clenched teeth, " she must carry her cross " Sometimes I

have wanted to shoot the heirarchy for preaching such folderol.

Well, by G-d, all his friends occassionally find G-d a lot to take. The true

humility of a spiritual person does not suffer from admitting that one's

emotions want to be let loose. Shaking your fist at G-d and being angry does

not mean that you will not or do not accept what comes. It does not mean,

that in the end you realize that everything is not easy, that injustice

happens, that our way is blocked. Whatever happens you know the love is

intact. No ruffled feathers remain, and the honesty of the relationship is

intact.

Why people cannot realize that it is a greater compliment to the Divine if

one admits one's anger, than if one tries to deny the hurt or the pain.

Remember ? He fought all night with his " :angel " and still received a

blessing at the end. Moses argued with G-d, Jerimiah told him to find

someone else, he didn';t want to be a prophet, and he was sure G-d could

find someone better. I could go on and on. None of these people risked their

closness to their G-d. They wanted their opinion considered, and they knew

that in the end they would do exactly what was asked of them.

I am sure Jesus had long serious discussions, especially when he saw what

the reaction to him would be...He said, I'd rather not, you know, Let's

forget this part of the deal. I am afraid of the suffering.

Donne could tell us about trying to get away from G-d. The hound of

Heaven pursues and purseus.Lots of people started running in the other

direction at first. The only one we honor for agreeing to whatever was to

come, immediately and with love and adoration was , and she was a

woman!

I have upset so many people when I get angry with my Image of the Image.

They are horrified and expect a thunderbolt to destroy me on the spot. G-d

doesn't mind at all. He wants to be taken seriously. This is not some game

we are playing, but Life. We are his creation not slaves, but free men and

women. The road to real acceptance in love is a long one, and on the way its

OK to complain and get mad. With care and love we slowly change, and I doubt

we continue to be angry as we mature in the spiritual life to the end...but

it is OK. Better to be angry than afraid. better to be angry than to ignore

the Self.

, I don't blame you for being upset with the self righteous " pious "

churchgoers who bend the knee from fear, and repress any and all real

feeling (Without momentary anger can there be real love?. Their G-d Image is

not mine.

In Jungian terms, If we are to become more conscious in order to

individuate, which in my understanding includes mainly the spiritual, we

will have to find our own weaknesses, nasty unpleasantnesses, and lack of

love, and admit them as we see them. Then the ego will grow smaller and the

self will enlarge. The ego will begin to take its orders from the Self, and

sooner or later the fear, hate, envy and lack of love and mercy begin to

change. Nothing changes until it becomes conscious enough to accept.

Luckily all those solemn pious parishioners with downcaste eyes are rid of

me, and no longer have to view me a heretic or apostate or worse as they

back away in fear. I found very few who agreed with me in positions of

authority, but there are plenty of of Avilas quiet and unseen still

around. If one really sees the spirit in Scripture and in the world as

alive, one would know it was OK to show all sides of oneself to the Self,

even that part we wanted to keep in the unconscious.

You asked. I hope I gave you one person's way. It is not merely opinion,

because I live that way. I do not today clench my fist at G-d, but I sure

have all my life( I do still groan occassionally, and I still get anxious

when it concerns my loved ones.But, I expect thast will change as i learn to

love and trust more.).The change, so far, came slowly and only by grace. I

am not afraid to show my image of the Image, my unpleasant side, nor my sins

once I am aware of them. It is the part of the shadow I don't yet see that I

would like to have him shine the light on. Then I could be conscious and

transparent....perhaps.

Toni

iginal Message -----

To: <JUNG-FIRE >

Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:36 AM

Subject: Re: To Toni: today, tomorrow, and the days after

>

> > ... we love u!

>

> Oh, Alice! You just get amazinger and amazinger! This morning, the

> convergence of my inner turmoil and the geo-political crises brought

> your book, " Jungian Symbolism in Astrology " to the top of my reading

> list! I didn't read very far into the introduction before I was

> marvelling at some of the parallels between your description of

> disaffection during your early 20's and my own experience at about the

> same age(although I was nowhere nearly as well read in comparative

> religion). Then it dawned on me that most of my big beefs with the

> various institutions associated with the Christian tradition are

> related to the fact that they don't perform particularly well helping

> people deal with anger toward God.

>

> I think there's something to be learned from this. So I'm asking all

> fire sitters to give it some thought and see if we can't come up with

> something observable that will help me build an understanding

> (preferable in Jungian terms) of what's afoot here and what the

> consequences and implications are. BTW, there's no need to stick to

> observations of the Christian tradition. As Alice's mother expected,

> there's much to be gained from a comparative study.

>

> APMW

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> " Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby beings

may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering. "

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> H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama

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