Who is Macrobiotic? The Transcript of this chat, hosted by t Rice

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“Who is

Macrobiotic?”

A Chat Hosted by

t Rice. Sunday January 29th 2006

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t:

Good evening, everyone. Welcome to MacroChat #2 with me, t Rice. We have a

great topic today. Are you ready?

(

joined.)

t:

My understanding of who is macrobiotic has developed over 26 years of practice.

At first, I thought " being macrobiotic " meant eating rice and not

eating, say, figs. But that gets tricky. So let's start, then, by asking:

What is the purpose of a macrobiotic lifestyle? Then we can explore what

constitutes " being macrobiotic. "

Sheldon(Q):

Are there macrobiotic foods? If not, then a macro person cannot be classified

by what they eat.

t(A)

Good; Are there, indeed, macrobiotic foods?

( joined.) : Hi everyone - I am new to this so

bear with me

Klara(Q)

The purpose of a macrobiotic lifestyle is understanding how food affects life,

and also how everything else affects life.

t(A)

But what is the purpose of that, Klara? Welcome, , and everyone

else.

Chick©

I think there are macrobiotic foods. The same as there are SAD foods.

Sheldon©

Rice, beans and vegetables can hardly be classified as macrobiotic; if that is

the case, food classification requires another means of measurement or

understanding.

I don't believe that there are macrobiotic foods - rather there are macrobiotic

principles that govern all foods.

Chick:

Foods are macrobiotic in the sense of how we, as macrobiotics, use them in our

diet.

Vic(Q)

Tricky, indeed. I have considered myself to be living a macrobiotic lifestyle

for 30 years -- does " being macrobiotic " mean I can get a disease

like osteoporosis??? I have never " counted my milligrams " of calcium,

I never thought about " absorbable calcium " and now I am humbled, and

I sit here with a glass of organic milk and rice cakes! I don't know if there

are folks out there age 50 something dealing with any osteoporosis issues?

t(A):

This is an important question...we touched on it last week, and it will continue

to be relevant forever onwards. Why do " macrobiotic people” get

sick? And again, what does it mean, then, to " be macrobiotic? "

Sheldon:

I know a lot of people who eat brown rice but never heard of macrobiotics.

Furthermore, why can't I eat so called non-macro foods and still be macro?

Chick:

What do you consider non macro foods?

t:

Let's deal with one question at a time. First, what is the purpose of

macrobiotics? Then, is there such a thing as " macrobiotic food? "

For me – macrobiotics means WHAT IS NECCESARY - how can such a definition

exclude or include any particular food type?

t

, for what purpose do you practice " what is necessary " ?

(Rick joined.)

:

FOR HEALTH

t

Then health is your highest goal?

(swim joined.)

Chick

YES

:

not at all - but it is a prerequisite for attaining certain other goals

Sheldon:

I don't believe there are non-macro foods. Sometimes I eat widely, and then try

to balance it with wide opposites. If I continue to do this all the time it

will affect my health. If I want to maintain a good condition, I need to

moderate eating inside a relatively narrow range of yin and yang foods.

Klara(Q)

For me, macrobiotics is an adventure in discovery - a consciousness of the

interplay of food and life

t(A)

Again, for what purpose?

Our purpose for health is to keep our bodies as pure spiritual receptacles, so

to speak

t

Yes, , can you elaborate further on your bigger dream? Why do you want to

be a pure receptacle?

*smile* --- it's not a case of want. Its is a case of purpose - only if we

are pure can we begin to help others.

t

Got it! Agreed! We've just raised our level of consciousness to the

fifth level, social judgment. Is there an even higher purpose of a

macrobiotic way of life?

Super consciousness is not on a higher level than social consciousness --- but

we need social consciousness to maintain super-consciousness

Sheldon©

Generally, health is my highest goal, but not always. Sometimes I push

myself beyond my normal range of foods for social, emotional or other reasons.

With the experience that I have accumulated, I generally do not do this

too often or too extremely.

Klara© My goal is to get to a life full of joy, peace, fullness

Sheldon What is joy, if not having the health to make wider choices, when

desired, without having a serious reaction that follows.

(leslieaashburn joined.)

t Don't get caught in semantics of better or worse. They are simply levels

of being, . Let's focus once more on who is macrobiotic. Does it

matter what one chooses to eat?

Yes

t

Then is macrobiotics defined by our diet?

Klara(Q) To me joy is getting to see a bigger picture. Understanding more

t(A) Yes—raising your level of understanding. Where does

macrobiotics fit in with this?

Klara(Q) it very much matters what one chooses to eat, especially how it

affects him/her

Sheldon We have free choice to choose whatever foods we want. What we need are

tools to make these choices, and moderate them so that balance can be created

and maintained.

(Lorela joined.)

t(A) Let's be specific. WHO IS MACROBIOTIC? And what for?

The important word being CHOOSES – macrobiotic food choices are

obviously made with specific intent --- taking just one principle - compassion

- we would choose foods which do not harm the environment, the ecology and the

body......

Sheldon That may be more or less of a problem depending on the person's

condition and constitution.

t: Good. Now we're getting somewhere. talks about the intent

of our food. Klara knows that food affects us. So then, is macrobiotics about

food choices rather than about specific foods?

(tofupax joined.)

Chick:

I can't see where you can separate the two.

t: Good, Chick. The question is this: does macrobiotics mean eating brown

rice, or does it mean recognizing the effect of brown rice and making a choice?

leslieaashburn To me, someone who is macrobiotic is someone who applies macrobiotic

principles to his/her life, not just with diet, but also thinking about one's

environment in general

leslieaashburn It's about consciously choosing, so I would say, 'food choices'

not specific foods

Klara(Q) This feels abstract, but I'm guessing everybody is macrobiotic, they

just don't realize it - that is, all bodies try to come to some kind of

balance. I think the crux is the realization and how to do it on purpose when

someone can call himself macro.

t(A) Excellent!

Mmm - it means thinking about the implications of eating brown rice and

therefore - about HOW the brown rice is eaten

(Q) Macrobiotic is about LIFE CHOICES

t(A) Yes, of course. But please be a bit more specific. Explain your idea,

s'il vous plait.

Sheldon: Klara, I like what you say about doing it on purpose. In other

words, making a conscious choice.

Chick I don't think everyone is macrobiotic. Certainly my diabetic son-in-law

isn't.

Sheldon(Q) I believe that a macrobiotic person is one that makes conscious

choices based on the order of the universe according to yin and yang to achieve

balance. I use the word conscious to differentiate between those who eat within

macrobiotic guidelines because of their culture and those that do so because of

what they have learned and understand.

t(A) This is interesting. Is the bushman in New Guinea macrobiotic? Is everyone

macrobiotic?

aashburn: everyone seeks balance, but does everyone seek that balance

consciously and intentionally? Perhaps that is the difference?

t: Nice, . Then are you saying that macrobiotics is the

conscious choice of food, activity, etc? Is the bushman not macrobiotic?

leslieaashburn It's just a fact of yin and yang. day turns to night, activity

to rest... it's unavoidable. The bushman is not conscious of the fact,

but yes, he is macrobiotic.

Klara(Q) Doesn't one need to experience it first before one can recognize the

effect and then make the choice

t(A) Experience is one way to learn. There are others....

Chick How does one seek balance? I don't understand that.

Sheldon Understanding yin and yang is so simple; applying it takes a lifetime

of experience that improves more and more as time goes on.

t: then, , everyone is macrobiotic, whether they consciously

apply yin/yang principles?

Sheldon© The bushman is not macrobiotic. He eats what is available to him. In

a different environment he would eat what is available there without

understanding that his new choices will not maintain his health.

(G joined.)

leslieaashburn I think everyone is macrobiotic. We are all responsible for the

outcome of our health.

leslieaashburn: Sheldon, macrobiotic eating is locally, in season -- so

why is the bushman not macro? He's in tune with nature around him/her

© Probably the bush person is macrobiotic since they are living in

harmony with their environment,

t Here's a new question. Is the goal of macrobiotics to live a long life?

Klara© Now we're going back to whether health is the main purpose. I think

it's one object, but may not be the only one.

Chick It should help.

Klara(Q) You asked if experience is the only way to learn. I believe we also

learn from copying others, like our parents and our peers, in what we eat.

t(A): Is that learning? or copying?

Sheldon The bushman is doing what comes naturally with being a bushman. If what

he eats maintains his health that is OK. But he doesn't have any awareness of

principles of balance; put him in a different environment and will he still be

macrobiotic. Of course not.

leslieaashburn: I think macrobiotics means to live in the present, to be happy

in the moment, and to create a strong consciousness, and not necessarily to

live a long life. A long life might be a natural byproduct of living a

healthy lifestyle and eating a healthy diet

( joined.)

aashburn: I think the bushman would have strong knowledge of

balance, but not defined in the words we use

t: If someone gets ill, meaning their application of yin and yang is off,

are they " macrobiotic? "

aashburn: Yes, they are macrobiotic, but there is still an imbalance

occurring

Chick: I should think a long life would be a by product of a healthy life

style.

©: For me the answer is NO about the length of life; the goal is to live

a good quality life with a purpose

Sheldon: , I agree with you. I don't believe that a macro lifestyle

necessarily has long life as a goal. Long life is a byproduct.

Klara©: Living a long life seems lovely, but so does living a full

life, and a life with great adventure.

t: Yet, my macrobiotic teacher says that living a long life is indeed a

goal of macrobiotics. We should all live long (and meaningful) lives.

Sheldon: I feel that quality of life is more purposeful than quantity.

Chick: Speaking from experience, being macro avoids some of the problems of old

age.

t: Wonderful, Chick!

t So one's skill at applying yin and yang does not determine if he is

macrobiotic, yes or no?

Chick: Yes

Sheldon©: I prefer to think of long life as a byproduct of good health rather

than a goal. Macrobiotics seems to be a great means of achieving this if

your practice is good in relation to your condition.

Chick: That is how we learned it.

aashburn: I think it's Pitchford who says that we can take good

food and still distort our application based on our condition.

Klara(Q): You mean you can give guarantees by " being macro. " ? I would

like to hope that old age, good health does come from eating macrobiotic, but I

still feel there's so many other factors that we may not understand.

aashburn: My sister started to try macrobiotics, and then was eating

macro desserts 3 times a day. she asked why she didn't feel so well..... and

when I suggested that it was the desserts, she said, " well, they're

macrobiotic. "

t My mother, who barely heard of the word macrobiotic, is in declining

health. But she's still alive, and so in some sort of balance. Is she

macrobiotic?

Sheldon© Skill is not a factor in determining if one is macro. Applying yin

and yang is a factor. As experience accumulates, the application gets better

and better, the skills improve, and the person enjoys the results more

favorably.

Chick: I don't say that being macro means you have no problems in old age,

because chances are you weren't macro all your life.

t: Right, Chick. Now back to the issue of illness. As Sheldon

says, the crux is in the application, not just the understanding, of

principles.

t: Ohsawa taught that theory without practice is useless. Practice without

theory is dangerous.

Chick: But you will avoid some of the problems that non macros

experience. I see other older people with regularity problems that I

don't experience.

t: Klara, Aihara says that food is only 5% of macrobiotics , yet the

most important 5%.

t: Macrobiotics to me means being flexible. Everything changes, and as

natural beings, we are able to flow like water and dance with the wind. (How's

that!)

(Q) t, that was beautiful and poetic.

t(A) (Blush)

Sheldon©: Flowing like water and dancing with the wind is pretty hard

when you don't feel well.

(_C joined.)

t: At one point, Sheldon and I decided that anyone who calls himself

macrobiotic, is.

( joined.)

t: Many people have a health consultation, buy rice, and don't think

in terms of yin and yang. Are they macro?

Chick: It depends on what else they eat with that rice. I don't think in

terms of yin and yang and I think I’m macro. I think in terms of balance.

aashburn: We have a restaurant here where I live that sells burritos.

They call them macrobiotic, but they also have steak, salmon, and Chicken

on their menu. The other macro person I know here and I get upset they call

their food macrobiotic.... it gives people the wrong idea.... I wonder where

that fits.

Klara© What happens when you are teaching and see something very blaringly

off in the person's understanding, or in their diet - they can call themselves

what they wish, but can you go back to the question of how people learn to get

more aware of what they are doing?

Klara(Q) I think of macro as a direction - if they do not yet have any

understanding of yin and yang they are at the very beginnings of the direction.

At least they are eating the rice and hopefully understanding something from

the consultation.

t(A) I'm humbled by your beautiful understanding. So, Klara asks,

" How can we learn to be aware? " How about the silent chatters out

there-- C, ....

Sheldon© It takes time to think in terms of yin and yang. The concept is too

new for most people and it takes time before the habit of a changing

thinking-patterns sets in. Nevertheless, I wouldn't define a macro person

on the basis of his thinking in terms of yin and yang as long as it is clear

that he is headed in that direction.

© Sheldon, today a lot of things have not been great, and I was not

feeling well at all at the beginning of this chat, then when t mentioned

flowing like water, my mood changed and I fell great right now....things were

not great...and I was NOT flowing

t How can we learn?

Tofupax© we try

aashburn: Read and study with someone good!

t: These are two good ways. How do we know if someone, or a book, is

good?

© We listen to what they say, or what we read, then we apply it to our

lives, and we see if it works or not

t: Abraham says, " Words do not teach. Only experience teaches. "

Agree? ...How else do we learn?

: Agree totally.

aashburn: …Keep a food journal

t: Food journals are excellent.

Klara© What, we

have to reinvent the wheel all by ourselves? We can't learn from others?????

aashburn: We all have favorite teachers and those who we did not

learn from. So, I would fit that in with experience too.

(Q) We learn by experience, and from others when we have that intention.

t(A): Is intention enough? Is it necessary. Sometimes we learn even

when we resist, although it's a tough way to go.

©: t I agree, we learn also when we resist...sometimes the lesson is

faster.

©: For me the way I learn best is by doing. Sometimes I

have little conscious knowledge of yin/yang, yet at an underlying layer is a

growing.

:

Application is taking the wheel and getting it moving and that moving

covers a road of experience.

t: Let's summarize so far. Who is macrobiotic? --We all are?

--The one who says he is? --The one who consciously applies yin and yang?

aashburn: All three options are macro!

Klara© Sometimes I am told something and it doesn't " sink in. " Then

I am told again and it just starts to make a dent. And sometimes I am really

lucky and get an “aha” moment.

© Klara, we need to " experience " it by ourselves, even if we

learn it from others

t: Good, . I like that idea. To me, again " being macro "

means being open to change. It means saying yes. And the purpose of

that????....What is the purpose?...

t: ....no takers on this $64,000 question?

: Growth...understanding...unlimited potential.

t: But, , to what end?

_C: I think the best use of the term macrobiotic is to limit it to people

who apply the tools. Not define it as a state of mind.

t: , it seems like we're saying there that there are various levels of

macro practice, some using tools, some just being human.

_C Okay.

Klara:(Q) The purpose of saying yes, to being flexible, is to bring in the

fullest of life that you can.

t:(A) Same question: Klara--why?

:© To me, being Macrobiotic means to live a happy, healthy life...in

tune with the Universe

_C: If we use such a broad definition then yin/yang aren't required,

right? Or diet?

t: There is macrobiotic understanding in one's thinking, and then there is

application in ones life. Different levels of application. Different results.

: And when the final good night comes and I go gently into the

netherworld I can say it was worth the trip.

Klara:© Do you do it with a full heart, right away, just because that's what

you want? or do you have to go through first a lot of hard learning, being

bumped along the road of life, going through not feeling good sometimes as

mentioned.

aashburn: Saying yes is another way of being grateful and the universe

opens up for us in new ways...

: To live a big life...a life with purpose and freedom.

t: Yes, yes, yes.....and why, why, why?

Tofupax:(Q) That question is like asking what is the purpose of life itself...

t:(A) Exactly! Shall we examine what is the purpose of life next

month? It's a biggie!

Sheldon: Great idea--what is the purpose of life?

: Now that may take

a whole month.

t: Any last ideas for tonight?

aashburn: Thanks t: for moderating. so happy to have caught

part of this chat. I’ll check out the transcript when it's posted

to see what I missed earlier.

:(Q) The purpose of life is the purpose we give it

t:(A) Nice! Then it's totally personal, not universal.

_C: Thanks t:

Klara:(Q) Did we cover all ways of learning??

:(A) I understand that there are 3 ways of learning--with a book, with a

teacher, and by yourself. Interesting to think which is most yin, which

most yang. We can practice yin/yang application next month as well.

: Thanks!

:© t, the purpose we give to life is totally connected to the

Universe, so it is both personal and Universal

: I think it is both and they are intertwined.

(Waco joined.)

Hello! Is the chat still on? He he, a little late! good

evening everyone!

t: Hello, Waco!

That’s my family’s home town!

t: It's such a pleasure pondering with you all. Thank you so very much.

Let's gather again this time next month for our February chat.

_C I would love to have examples of yin/yang that we can observe and

analyze.

:

Thanks t: for a great chat, and for everyone that attended.

t: , and everyone--please gather yin and yang questions for the group

next time.

: Next week

will be a general chat at the same time, 2pm eastern. On February 15th will be

a chat with Porter. That time will be a bit different—on a

Wednesday evening at 8pm.

t: Goodnight, everyone! Many thanks, and happy trails.

Next Scheduled Chats:

Sunday

February 5th 2006, General

Chat 2pm Eastern Time

Wednesday

February 8th 2006, Food

and Love A Moderated Chat Hosted by Marque 8pm

Eastern Time

A lively discussion of how we use food to create mood,

give love, receive love and attract love. To

find out more about , visit her web site @ www.susanmarque.com

Wednesday

February 15th 2006,

A Moderated Chat Hosted by Porter 8pm

Eastern Time

Join us for a fun chat with the macrobiotic hip chick

herself, the authoress of the highly popular, The Hip Chick's Guide To

Macrobiotics.

Porter is a macrobiotic chef, cooking instructor, and hypnotist. She completed

her macrobiotic training at the Kushi Institute in Becket, Massachusetts. She hosts a weekly radio show

in Portland, Maine, has written and appeared in her own

one-woman show, Zen

Comedy, and has been featured in Simon Doonan's recent

book, Wacky Chicks:

Life Lessons from Fearlessly Inappropriate and Fabulously Eccentric Women.