Re: Dogmatic dilemma

[Guest guest]

I spent one year at a local Catholic school and 5 years at a Baptist afiliated military school. At the Catholic school, they did not force anything on you. You had to attend religion class, but that was inocuous as it was more a Bible history and ethics class than anything about Catholocism. You did go to liturgy but you did not have to participate if you were not Catholic. I wasn't but all you had to do was sit there and behave yourself.

The military school was pretty much the same. We had Chapel on Thursdays, which as served as a corps meeting, and Church on Sunday if you were on campus. The services were fairly non denominational and they never performed communion, and they had vans and busses if you were Catholic or whatever and wanted to attend different services. There also you were not required to take part in the services, but rather to be quiet and not be disruptive. The only kid who ever complained was this muslim kid who thought Allah would kill him if he went in a Christian Church. I'm not sure what became of that guy as he was in another company.

My experiences were bad overall, but I expect that can vary from school to school.

[Guest guest]

:> Even though the "Holy Mother Church" here in the U.S. has been taking a (well-deserved) bad rap recently, I must "confess". This type of rumination is one of the by-products of 12 years of Catholic school. I have often speculated on how many other aspects of my rather "unique" personality could also be traced back to my parent's (rest their souls) well-intentioned but ill-informed decision to enroll me in parochial school. They wound up spending extra money that they couldn't really afford in the hopes of removing their "little baby boy" from the "bad influences" that were thought to run rampant in the Chicago public schools. I wonder if there is any kind of direct co-relation between the effects of A.S. and the effects of a Catholic education? Your thoughts?

We have no Catholic schools in my country so I would not know enough about the subject to have much of an opinion on it. But I'm generally not a big fan of any school that inforces a particular world view to the exclusion of all others - and this very much includes ordinary schools too. I guess one tends to think that the information we recieve is objective but in my experience, that is rarely the case. Still, Catholic schools seem a lot more strict and narrow than most, and I have a number of friends abroad who have been pretty scewed up by it. Feel free to tell more about your experiences and expand your speculation.

Inger

[Guest guest]

There's a big debate in Norway on Christian education, both on

Christian private schools and on Christian education in public

schools. Norway's government is a pretty hippocrite

christian " democratic " party and we are an atheist country.

> :

> > Even though the " Holy Mother Church " here in the U.S. has been

taking a (well-deserved) bad rap recently, I must " confess " . This

type of rumination is one of the by-products of 12 years of Catholic

school. I have often speculated on how many other aspects of my

rather " unique " personality could also be traced back to my parent's

(rest their souls) well-intentioned but ill-informed decision to

enroll me in parochial school. They wound up spending extra money

that they couldn't really afford in the hopes of removing

their " little baby boy " from the " bad influences " that were thought

to run rampant in the Chicago public schools. I wonder if there is

any kind of direct co-relation between the effects of A.S. and the

effects of a Catholic education? Your thoughts?

>

> We have no Catholic schools in my country so I would not know

enough about the subject to have much of an opinion on it. But I'm

generally not a big fan of any school that inforces a particular

world view to the exclusion of all others - and this very much

includes ordinary schools too. I guess one tends to think that the

information we recieve is objective but in my experience, that is

rarely the case. Still, Catholic schools seem a lot more strict and

narrow than most, and I have a number of friends abroad who have been

pretty scewed up by it. Feel free to tell more about your experiences

and expand your speculation.

>

> Inger

[Guest guest]

,

Catholicism perplexes me but that is because I am Protestant.

I've known many people who were Catholic and who have had a Catholic

education and I would have to answer your question by saying that I

think the educations they receive, while religiously oriented, vary

by where they attend. Additionally, upbringing and the type of

background someone comes from, as well as their life experience, is

as much a factor in what people do in their lives as what their

religious training tells them to do. BUT NOT ALWAYS.

Two examples:

1) A friend of the family who my mom once wanted me to get involved

with got married seven or eight years ago to someone else. Because

she was Catholic, I would not have been an option for her anyway

because I am Lutheran. Anyway, she did not have sex before marriage

and so was a virgin on her wedding night. She and her husband

continued to follow the teachings of the Catholic Church into their

marriage, which meant no birth control. (They now have six kids).

It was deternmined in utero that one of these kids would be severely

disabled and the doctor recommended abortion. Being Catholic, she

believed that abortion went against the Church's teachings and so

she gave birth to the child who turned out (miraculously, she

believes) to be only slightly developmentally disabled (learning

impaired, in other words.

Just this week, her husband underwent an MRI because of unexplained

blurry vision and it was discovered that he has a growth on his

spine near the bottom of the skull that cannot be removed

surgically. This growth will continue to affect areas of the brain

to the point where he may no longer be able to work and may die.

They believe that prayer will get them through this. And though I

cannot say this for sure, I expect that they will continue to have

unprotected sex, even though he may die and she will be left

(currently without a job) and in dire staits financially.

2) An ex-girlfriend of mine who is very beautiful, very demure, and

very sweet, was also Catholic. We had periodically squabbled over

religious convictions. I would talk about issues, and she would

accuse me of attacking the Pope and her religion.

She is an active pro-choice advocate and has a teddy bear in her

bedroom sporting a pin that says: " It's Pro-Choice of No Choice. "

When asked about how this stance on abortion jives with the Catholic

Church, she explains that even though God says (Deuteronomy

32:39) " See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me:

I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any

that can deliver out of my hand. " this, like all passages in the

Bible, should be disregarded.

She says that God may claim authority for life and death of all of

man with this passage, but once Jesus died on the cross to save our

sins, then ALL sins, past, present and future are automatically

forgiven, and even if some transgression has been made, the good

deeds she has done will get her into Heaven because admittance into

Heaven is through good deeds only, and not by spiritual grace. And

if her good deeds are insufficient, there is always purgatory for

her to work them off.

She also says the same thing -in regards to writings in the Bible-

against sexual promiscuity. She says the Bible has no relevance and

people have personal freedom to do whatever they want as long as

they believe in Jesus and that He died to save our sins.

I asked her about the Pope's various decrees against abortion and

birth control, etc., and she said that the Pope is decreeing those

things for the SOCIAL benefit of Catholics only, not for their

SPIRITUAL benefit. RESPONSIBLE Catholics, for example, won't be

having abortions left and right. But, she says, the Pope knows that

if you decree " No Abortions " IRRESPONSIBLE Catholics will have fewer

than they normally would, just like if he decrees " No birth control "

irresponsible Catholics will use birth control responsibly. She

said " He's a very smart guy, that Pope. "

Anyway, we are no longer together, but before we broke up, I had

talked with her about the woman mentioned previously (this was years

ago when she only had four kids) and my ex-girlfriend described her

as a radical Catholic.

When I talked with the woman with all those kids about my ex-

girlfriend, the woman described my ex as " not a real Catholic. "

Both went to Catholic schools and were raised by strict parents, but

both turned out differently.

You cannot draw inferences in these matters without sufficeint

studies, and even then, to do so is risky. You have as much

diversity in the Catholic Church, I should think, as you would in

any other church in Christianity, or any other relgion, or the

general population at large.

Tom

>

Even though the " Holy Mother Church " here in the U.S. has been

taking a (well-deserved) bad rap recently, I must " confess " . This

type of rumination is one of the by-products of 12 years of Catholic

school. I have often speculated on how many other aspects of my

rather " unique " personality could also be traced back to my parent's

(rest their souls) well-intentioned but ill-informed decision to

enroll me in parochial school. They wound up spending extra money

that they couldn't really afford in the hopes of removing

their " little baby boy " from the " bad influences " that were thought

to run rampant in the Chicago public schools. I wonder if there is

any kind of direct co-relation between the effects of A.S. and the

effects of a Catholic education? Your thoughts?

>

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