Re: Refractometer reading of milk

[Guest guest]

* a Augustine (augustines@...) [010602 17:45]:

* Subject: Refractometer reading of milk:

> Roelof,

>

> My dad got back to me with the reading on his milk. It is a 10.5

> - 11. he says from what he knows it does make a difference on the

> type of cow you have. He has just holstiens, probably the least

> richest milk. He has just purchased some Milking Shorthorn and

> would maybe like to switch to this..He is just trying them out

> right now. He has about 80 cows so it would take a while to switch

> over!! He has been farming the farm organic for almost 15 years

> now.

Interesting. I've measured 4 types here: holstein,

holstein/guernsey mix, guernsey, and jersey -- each

from different farms/dairies spread over more than

a hundred miles. They are all measure between 10.0 and

10.5. The only one that had any grass measured the lowest

but the soil and grass looks about average. That farmer

thought his grassy fields were comparatively outstanding

when I asked him about it, but in my opinion, it looked

pretty sad with packed, lifeless soil and grass just barely

surviving -- like most the other farmland I've seen around

here.

I've been somewhat baffled by the similar brix readings

since there is a world of difference in the taste, fat

content, and thickness of the samples. The hypothesis

I'm working with is that the fat and protein globules

do not contribute to the brix reading as they are not

in solution. This means that the measurement is that

of the liquid suspending these globules, and is likely

determined by the water soluble nutrient content. Why

are all these readings so similar? I'm guessing it's

because the food that the cows are eating is similar.

I have not seen any heroic efforts by any of the hay or

grain growers here to create highly fertile or remineralized

soil. I have yet to find or hear about any milk higher

than 11 brix -- far less that the 21-25 brix milk that

some consider the minimum quality for human consumption

which used to be available in this country in Weston Price's

time. :-(

--alan

[Guest guest]

Alan...

This is very interesting. My dad is always testing his soil and adding nutrients to help the soil. He works closely with different people on how to build the soil back up. He has never gone with just one source on any ofthis but is always trying to learn more. His pastures look great, he intensive grazes.

So I wonder if there is something missing, if this is the highest readings. does the water have a lot to do with this? Did farm chemicals that were sprayed for years on feilds eliminate something from the soil that we are missing? Too many questions come to mind. I have a hard time thinking it woudl just be one cause though. It is probably a mixture of different things.

Have you ever tested cultured milk products? Yogurt, Kefir, Villi, Buttermilk, Fiol milk, Sour cream, etc? That may be interesting as well as some say we should really not ever drink raw milk, but only cultured...

a Augustine

I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright.I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun more.I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive.I wish you enough pain so that the smallest joys in life appear much bigger.I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting.I wish you nough loss to appreciate all that you possess.I wish you enough ''Hello's" to get you through the final goodbye.

----- Original Message -----

From: Alan Lundin

Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 10:44 AM

Subject: Re: Refractometer reading of milk

* a Augustine (augustines@...) [010602 17:45]:* Subject: Refractometer reading of milk:> Roelof,> > My dad got back to me with the reading on his milk. It is a 10.5> - 11. he says from what he knows it does make a difference on the> type of cow you have. He has just holstiens, probably the least> richest milk. He has just purchased some Milking Shorthorn and> would maybe like to switch to this..He is just trying them out> right now. He has about 80 cows so it would take a while to switch> over!! He has been farming the farm organic for almost 15 years> now.Interesting. I've measured 4 types here: holstein,holstein/guernsey mix, guernsey, and jersey -- eachfrom different farms/dairies spread over more thana hundred miles. They are all measure between 10.0 and10.5. The only one that had any grass measured the lowestbut the soil and grass looks about average. That farmerthought his grassy fields were comparatively outstandingwhen I asked him about it, but in my opinion, it lookedpretty sad with packed, lifeless soil and grass just barelysurviving -- like most the other farmland I've seen aroundhere.I've been somewhat baffled by the similar brix readingssince there is a world of difference in the taste, fatcontent, and thickness of the samples. The hypothesisI'm working with is that the fat and protein globulesdo not contribute to the brix reading as they are notin solution. This means that the measurement is thatof the liquid suspending these globules, and is likelydetermined by the water soluble nutrient content. Whyare all these readings so similar? I'm guessing it'sbecause the food that the cows are eating is similar.I have not seen any heroic efforts by any of the hay orgrain growers here to create highly fertile or remineralizedsoil. I have yet to find or hear about any milk higherthan 11 brix -- far less that the 21-25 brix milk thatsome consider the minimum quality for human consumptionwhich used to be available in this country in Weston Price'stime. :-(--alan

[Guest guest]

Alan...

This is very interesting. My dad is always testing his soil and adding nutrients to help the soil. He works closely with different people on how to build the soil back up. He has never gone with just one source on any ofthis but is always trying to learn more. His pastures look great, he intensive grazes during the summer months and feeds silage and haylage over winter months. He does not feed any products that are especially for pushing milk production, he only feeds a mix of minerals and such that is what they feel is needed for the farm as a whole. So maybe all of his efforts are worthless if he is not getting any better milk...

So I wonder if there is something missing, if this is the highest readings. does the water have a lot to do with this? Did farm chemicals that were sprayed for years on feilds eliminate something from the soil that we are missing? the breeding of the animals...when we breed flowers for better production, better looking product they are finding out that the smell of the flowers deteriorates. I took part in dairy judging for many years...We breed for looks and production but not quality of the milk. Too many questions come to mind. I have a hard time thinking it woudl just be one cause though. It is probably a mixture of different things.

Have you ever tested cultured milk products? Yogurt, Kefir, Villi, Buttermilk, Fiol milk, Sour cream, etc? That may be interesting as well as some say we should really not ever drink raw milk, but only cultured...

a Augustine

I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright.I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun more.I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive.I wish you enough pain so that the smallest joys in life appear much bigger.I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting.I wish you nough loss to appreciate all that you possess.I wish you enough ''Hello's" to get you through the final goodbye.

----- Original Message -----

From: Alan Lundin

Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 10:44 AM

Subject: Re: Refractometer reading of milk

* a Augustine (augustines@...) [010602 17:45]:* Subject: Refractometer reading of milk:> Roelof,> > My dad got back to me with the reading on his milk. It is a 10.5> - 11. he says from what he knows it does make a difference on the> type of cow you have. He has just holstiens, probably the least> richest milk. He has just purchased some Milking Shorthorn and> would maybe like to switch to this..He is just trying them out> right now. He has about 80 cows so it would take a while to switch> over!! He has been farming the farm organic for almost 15 years> now.Interesting. I've measured 4 types here: holstein,holstein/guernsey mix, guernsey, and jersey -- eachfrom different farms/dairies spread over more thana hundred miles. They are all measure between 10.0 and10.5. The only one that had any grass measured the lowestbut the soil and grass looks about average. That farmerthought his grassy fields were comparatively outstandingwhen I asked him about it, but in my opinion, it lookedpretty sad with packed, lifeless soil and grass just barelysurviving -- like most the other farmland I've seen aroundhere.I've been somewhat baffled by the similar brix readingssince there is a world of difference in the taste, fatcontent, and thickness of the samples. The hypothesisI'm working with is that the fat and protein globulesdo not contribute to the brix reading as they are notin solution. This means that the measurement is thatof the liquid suspending these globules, and is likelydetermined by the water soluble nutrient content. Whyare all these readings so similar? I'm guessing it'sbecause the food that the cows are eating is similar.I have not seen any heroic efforts by any of the hay orgrain growers here to create highly fertile or remineralizedsoil. I have yet to find or hear about any milk higherthan 11 brix -- far less that the 21-25 brix milk thatsome consider the minimum quality for human consumptionwhich used to be available in this country in Weston Price'stime. :-(--alan

[Guest guest]

Alan...

This is very interesting. My dad is always testing his soil and adding nutrients to help the soil. He works closely with different people on how to build the soil back up. He has never gone with just one source on any ofthis but is always trying to learn more. His pastures look great, he intensive grazes during the summer months and feeds silage and haylage over winter months. He does not feed any products that are especially for pushing milk production, he only feeds a mix of minerals and such that is what they feel is needed for the farm as a whole. So maybe all of his efforts are worthless if he is not getting any better milk...

So I wonder if there is something missing, if this is the highest readings. does the water have a lot to do with this? Did farm chemicals that were sprayed for years on feilds eliminate something from the soil that we are missing? the breeding of the animals...when we breed flowers for better production, better looking product they are finding out that the smell of the flowers deteriorates. I took part in dairy judging for many years...We breed for looks and production but not quality of the milk. Too many questions come to mind. I have a hard time thinking it woudl just be one cause though. It is probably a mixture of different things.

Have you ever tested cultured milk products? Yogurt, Kefir, Villi, Buttermilk, Fiol milk, Sour cream, etc? That may be interesting as well as some say we should really not ever drink raw milk, but only cultured...

a Augustine

I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright.I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun more.I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive.I wish you enough pain so that the smallest joys in life appear much bigger.I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting.I wish you nough loss to appreciate all that you possess.I wish you enough ''Hello's" to get you through the final goodbye.

----- Original Message -----

From: Alan Lundin

Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 10:44 AM

Subject: Re: Refractometer reading of milk

* a Augustine (augustines@...) [010602 17:45]:* Subject: Refractometer reading of milk:> Roelof,> > My dad got back to me with the reading on his milk. It is a 10.5> - 11. he says from what he knows it does make a difference on the> type of cow you have. He has just holstiens, probably the least> richest milk. He has just purchased some Milking Shorthorn and> would maybe like to switch to this..He is just trying them out> right now. He has about 80 cows so it would take a while to switch> over!! He has been farming the farm organic for almost 15 years> now.Interesting. I've measured 4 types here: holstein,holstein/guernsey mix, guernsey, and jersey -- eachfrom different farms/dairies spread over more thana hundred miles. They are all measure between 10.0 and10.5. The only one that had any grass measured the lowestbut the soil and grass looks about average. That farmerthought his grassy fields were comparatively outstandingwhen I asked him about it, but in my opinion, it lookedpretty sad with packed, lifeless soil and grass just barelysurviving -- like most the other farmland I've seen aroundhere.I've been somewhat baffled by the similar brix readingssince there is a world of difference in the taste, fatcontent, and thickness of the samples. The hypothesisI'm working with is that the fat and protein globulesdo not contribute to the brix reading as they are notin solution. This means that the measurement is thatof the liquid suspending these globules, and is likelydetermined by the water soluble nutrient content. Whyare all these readings so similar? I'm guessing it'sbecause the food that the cows are eating is similar.I have not seen any heroic efforts by any of the hay orgrain growers here to create highly fertile or remineralizedsoil. I have yet to find or hear about any milk higherthan 11 brix -- far less that the 21-25 brix milk thatsome consider the minimum quality for human consumptionwhich used to be available in this country in Weston Price'stime. :-(--alan

[Guest guest]

Alan...

This is very interesting. My dad is always testing his soil and adding nutrients to help the soil. He works closely with different people on how to build the soil back up. He has never gone with just one source on any ofthis but is always trying to learn more. His pastures look great, he intensive grazes during the summer months and feeds silage and haylage over winter months. He does not feed any products that are especially for pushing milk production, he only feeds a mix of minerals and such that is what they feel is needed for the farm as a whole. So maybe all of his efforts are worthless if he is not getting any better milk...

So I wonder if there is something missing, if this is the highest readings. does the water have a lot to do with this? Did farm chemicals that were sprayed for years on feilds eliminate something from the soil that we are missing? the breeding of the animals...when we breed flowers for better production, better looking product they are finding out that the smell of the flowers deteriorates. I took part in dairy judging for many years...We breed for looks and production but not quality of the milk. Too many questions come to mind. I have a hard time thinking it woudl just be one cause though. It is probably a mixture of different things.

Have you ever tested cultured milk products? Yogurt, Kefir, Villi, Buttermilk, Fiol milk, Sour cream, etc? That may be interesting as well as some say we should really not ever drink raw milk, but only cultured...

a Augustine

I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright.I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun more.I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive.I wish you enough pain so that the smallest joys in life appear much bigger.I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting.I wish you nough loss to appreciate all that you possess.I wish you enough ''Hello's" to get you through the final goodbye.

----- Original Message -----

From: Alan Lundin

Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 10:44 AM

Subject: Re: Refractometer reading of milk

* a Augustine (augustines@...) [010602 17:45]:* Subject: Refractometer reading of milk:> Roelof,> > My dad got back to me with the reading on his milk. It is a 10.5> - 11. he says from what he knows it does make a difference on the> type of cow you have. He has just holstiens, probably the least> richest milk. He has just purchased some Milking Shorthorn and> would maybe like to switch to this..He is just trying them out> right now. He has about 80 cows so it would take a while to switch> over!! He has been farming the farm organic for almost 15 years> now.Interesting. I've measured 4 types here: holstein,holstein/guernsey mix, guernsey, and jersey -- eachfrom different farms/dairies spread over more thana hundred miles. They are all measure between 10.0 and10.5. The only one that had any grass measured the lowestbut the soil and grass looks about average. That farmerthought his grassy fields were comparatively outstandingwhen I asked him about it, but in my opinion, it lookedpretty sad with packed, lifeless soil and grass just barelysurviving -- like most the other farmland I've seen aroundhere.I've been somewhat baffled by the similar brix readingssince there is a world of difference in the taste, fatcontent, and thickness of the samples. The hypothesisI'm working with is that the fat and protein globulesdo not contribute to the brix reading as they are notin solution. This means that the measurement is thatof the liquid suspending these globules, and is likelydetermined by the water soluble nutrient content. Whyare all these readings so similar? I'm guessing it'sbecause the food that the cows are eating is similar.I have not seen any heroic efforts by any of the hay orgrain growers here to create highly fertile or remineralizedsoil. I have yet to find or hear about any milk higherthan 11 brix -- far less that the 21-25 brix milk thatsome consider the minimum quality for human consumptionwhich used to be available in this country in Weston Price'stime. :-(--alan

[Guest guest]

Alan...

This is very interesting. My dad is always testing his soil and adding nutrients to help the soil. He works closely with different people on how to build the soil back up. He has never gone with just one source on any ofthis but is always trying to learn more. His pastures look great, he intensive grazes during the summer months and feeds silage and haylage over winter months. He does not feed any products that are especially for pushing milk production, he only feeds a mix of minerals and such that is what they feel is needed for the farm as a whole. So maybe all of his efforts are worthless if he is not getting any better milk...

So I wonder if there is something missing, if this is the highest readings. does the water have a lot to do with this? Did farm chemicals that were sprayed for years on feilds eliminate something from the soil that we are missing? the breeding of the animals...when we breed flowers for better production, better looking product they are finding out that the smell of the flowers deteriorates. I took part in dairy judging for many years...We breed for looks and production but not quality of the milk. Too many questions come to mind. I have a hard time thinking it woudl just be one cause though. It is probably a mixture of different things.

Have you ever tested cultured milk products? Yogurt, Kefir, Villi, Buttermilk, Fiol milk, Sour cream, etc? That may be interesting as well as some say we should really not ever drink raw milk, but only cultured...

a Augustine

I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright.I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun more.I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive.I wish you enough pain so that the smallest joys in life appear much bigger.I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting.I wish you nough loss to appreciate all that you possess.I wish you enough ''Hello's" to get you through the final goodbye.

----- Original Message -----

From: Alan Lundin

Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 10:44 AM

Subject: Re: Refractometer reading of milk

* a Augustine (augustines@...) [010602 17:45]:* Subject: Refractometer reading of milk:> Roelof,> > My dad got back to me with the reading on his milk. It is a 10.5> - 11. he says from what he knows it does make a difference on the> type of cow you have. He has just holstiens, probably the least> richest milk. He has just purchased some Milking Shorthorn and> would maybe like to switch to this..He is just trying them out> right now. He has about 80 cows so it would take a while to switch> over!! He has been farming the farm organic for almost 15 years> now.Interesting. I've measured 4 types here: holstein,holstein/guernsey mix, guernsey, and jersey -- eachfrom different farms/dairies spread over more thana hundred miles. They are all measure between 10.0 and10.5. The only one that had any grass measured the lowestbut the soil and grass looks about average. That farmerthought his grassy fields were comparatively outstandingwhen I asked him about it, but in my opinion, it lookedpretty sad with packed, lifeless soil and grass just barelysurviving -- like most the other farmland I've seen aroundhere.I've been somewhat baffled by the similar brix readingssince there is a world of difference in the taste, fatcontent, and thickness of the samples. The hypothesisI'm working with is that the fat and protein globulesdo not contribute to the brix reading as they are notin solution. This means that the measurement is thatof the liquid suspending these globules, and is likelydetermined by the water soluble nutrient content. Whyare all these readings so similar? I'm guessing it'sbecause the food that the cows are eating is similar.I have not seen any heroic efforts by any of the hay orgrain growers here to create highly fertile or remineralizedsoil. I have yet to find or hear about any milk higherthan 11 brix -- far less that the 21-25 brix milk thatsome consider the minimum quality for human consumptionwhich used to be available in this country in Weston Price'stime. :-(--alan

[Guest guest]

Alan...

This is very interesting. My dad is always testing his soil and adding nutrients to help the soil. He works closely with different people on how to build the soil back up. He has never gone with just one source on any ofthis but is always trying to learn more. His pastures look great, he intensive grazes during the summer months and feeds silage and haylage over winter months. He does not feed any products that are especially for pushing milk production, he only feeds a mix of minerals and such that is what they feel is needed for the farm as a whole. So maybe all of his efforts are worthless if he is not getting any better milk...

So I wonder if there is something missing, if this is the highest readings. does the water have a lot to do with this? Did farm chemicals that were sprayed for years on feilds eliminate something from the soil that we are missing? the breeding of the animals...when we breed flowers for better production, better looking product they are finding out that the smell of the flowers deteriorates. I took part in dairy judging for many years...We breed for looks and production but not quality of the milk. Too many questions come to mind. I have a hard time thinking it woudl just be one cause though. It is probably a mixture of different things.

Have you ever tested cultured milk products? Yogurt, Kefir, Villi, Buttermilk, Fiol milk, Sour cream, etc? That may be interesting as well as some say we should really not ever drink raw milk, but only cultured...

a Augustine

I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright.I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun more.I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive.I wish you enough pain so that the smallest joys in life appear much bigger.I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting.I wish you nough loss to appreciate all that you possess.I wish you enough ''Hello's" to get you through the final goodbye.

----- Original Message -----

From: Alan Lundin

Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 10:44 AM

Subject: Re: Refractometer reading of milk

* a Augustine (augustines@...) [010602 17:45]:* Subject: Refractometer reading of milk:> Roelof,> > My dad got back to me with the reading on his milk. It is a 10.5> - 11. he says from what he knows it does make a difference on the> type of cow you have. He has just holstiens, probably the least> richest milk. He has just purchased some Milking Shorthorn and> would maybe like to switch to this..He is just trying them out> right now. He has about 80 cows so it would take a while to switch> over!! He has been farming the farm organic for almost 15 years> now.Interesting. I've measured 4 types here: holstein,holstein/guernsey mix, guernsey, and jersey -- eachfrom different farms/dairies spread over more thana hundred miles. They are all measure between 10.0 and10.5. The only one that had any grass measured the lowestbut the soil and grass looks about average. That farmerthought his grassy fields were comparatively outstandingwhen I asked him about it, but in my opinion, it lookedpretty sad with packed, lifeless soil and grass just barelysurviving -- like most the other farmland I've seen aroundhere.I've been somewhat baffled by the similar brix readingssince there is a world of difference in the taste, fatcontent, and thickness of the samples. The hypothesisI'm working with is that the fat and protein globulesdo not contribute to the brix reading as they are notin solution. This means that the measurement is thatof the liquid suspending these globules, and is likelydetermined by the water soluble nutrient content. Whyare all these readings so similar? I'm guessing it'sbecause the food that the cows are eating is similar.I have not seen any heroic efforts by any of the hay orgrain growers here to create highly fertile or remineralizedsoil. I have yet to find or hear about any milk higherthan 11 brix -- far less that the 21-25 brix milk thatsome consider the minimum quality for human consumptionwhich used to be available in this country in Weston Price'stime. :-(--alan

[Guest guest]

* a Augustine (augustines@...) [010603 20:45]:

* Subject: Re: Refractometer reading of milk:

> Alan...

>

> This is very interesting. My dad is always testing his soil and

> adding nutrients to help the soil. He works closely with different

> people on how to build the soil back up. He has never gone with just

> one source on any of this but is always trying to learn more. His

> pastures look great, he intensive grazes.

> So I wonder if there is something missing, if this is the highest

> readings.

Clearly something is wrong or he'd have 25+ Brix

milk, right? I'm no dairy farmer, so I'd be a

poor person to take advise from, but is your

father adding more than just the typical 10 or

so minerals? Does he, for instance, make sure

that the Chromium and Vanadium levels haven't

vanished? (Chromium and Vanadium deficiencies

are strongly tied to diabetes.) How about Cobalt,

Selenium, Boron, and other important but often

neglected trace minerals? If the minerals aren't

in the soil, the plants aren't going to have them,

and I'm inclined to think that the plant can't be

truely healthy without them. I'm told that it's

sometimes very hard to tell a healthy plant from

an unhealthy one just from a visual inspection.

Clues sometimes come from insects (which seem to

prefer sick plants over healthy ones), and a

refractometer (to measure sap Brix levels), among

others.

> does the water have a lot to do with this? Did farm chemicals

> that were sprayed for years on feilds eliminate something from the soil

> that we are missing? Too many questions come to mind.

Absolutely -- there really are a lot of questions.

It seems a good bet to me that a good start would

be to just check the soil. Does it have adequate

quantities of the 60 or 70 minerals and trace minerals

that seem to be important to life? Is the soil loose

and full of humus down for three or more feet? Do

microorganisms thrive in the soil? Do you count 50

or so earthworms in a typical spade full of soil?

Do insects choose to munch on other plants rather

than those on his fields? If so, I'd think that the

chemicals aren't still plaguing his land.

> I have a hard

> time thinking it woudl just be one cause though. It is probably a

> mixture of different things.

Agreed, it probably is more than one thing. However,

it also seems to me that if one thing were wrong, that'd

be enough to be a problem!

> Have you ever tested cultured milk products? Yogurt, Kefir, Villi,

> Buttermilk, Fiol milk, Sour cream, etc?

No I haven't because culturing the milk doesn't add

minerals. The organisms may transform the compounds

found in the original materials and create new nutrients

from the original nutrients, but if the milk is deficient

in, say Copper, the cultured product is going to stay

deficient. Also, Brix is a measure of solids dissolved

in water. If, during the culturing, evaporation should

occur or if water was pulled into the solid compounds,

the Brix will most assuredly go up, but it'd be meaningless.

I could test it, but I don't see what the point would be.

> That may be interesting as well

> as some say we should really not ever drink raw milk, but only

> cultured...

I've found this intriguing as well. My take (hypothesis)

on this is that we are in a race -- a race to get as

many nutrients per calorie as we can. In this case,

the culturing organisms do us a favor by consuming some

of the calories (I presume from primarily carbohydrates

-- the lactose), and use it to manufacture additional

nutrients, thereby increasing the nutrient density. I

would also be surprised if the culturing didn't also

have a major impact by converting many of the nutrients

to more bio-available forms. Does that seem sensible?

--alan

[Guest guest]

>I'm no dairy farmer, so I'd be a>poor person to take advise from, but is your>father adding more than just the typical 10 or>so minerals?

Well I have never asked him exactly what he puts on the fields. I have learned that he uses the refractometer for testing things on the farm after asking him if he knew about it. I know he uses another weird machine that can tell more specific information. He also knows about all the trace minerals you mention...We even drink sometimes a trace mineral supplement as they do too. I know he feeds his cows the trace minerals, he has bags of these things laying around. He even adds a mineral mixture right with the manure in the gutter in the barn...the manure gets composted all winter out in a field and he puts this composted stuff in the fields every spring. He was even looking into composting his manure with worms, but has not looked any further into this because he would have too much manure. I guess I have not been out to put a spade in the soil to find out how many earthworms there are..

I am just as curious as you are. Partly because my husband and I would like to get a cow ourselves and kind of do the homesteading type hobby farming thing. I was going to try to do things like my dad. I always knew my dad is always learning and trying to do everything just right...but I guess it is not good enough yet.

I was also wondering about the breeding we have done for years of the animals. Roses have been 'bred' for beauty and looks for so long that they have noticed they are losing their smell. I was in dairy judging for many years as a young 4-H'er. We looked at the good looks of the cow (straight topline, high udder, width, etc) We looked at production, but never the quality of the milk. For years dairy animals have been bred to produce more quantity not quality, for this ideal 'looking' animal. Could we have bred out their ability to utilize their nutrients? Could we have bred out their ability to produce milk with high nutrition, just like roses cannot produce their smell?!? A second issue is our medical technology. We raise the weak animals and keep them alive when they get illnesses as calves (like diarreah) that they would normally die from. We breed artificially and allow the weak sperm the same amount of chance as the strong sperm because we put the little vile of sperm right in the uterus instead of letting only the strong cells survive on the longer travel they would normally have in nature. I am probably reaching out a little far here...Just a thought, I am filled with stupid a ideas...I tell others because I know that maybe one of them may not be stupid after all.

>In this case,the culturing organisms do us a favor by >consuming someof the calories (I presume from primarily >carbohydrates -- the lactose), and use it to >manufacture additional nutrients, thereby increasing >the nutrient density. I would also be surprised if the >culturing didn't also have a major impact by converting >many of the nutrients to more bio-available forms. >Does that seem sensible?

It seems sensible...I didn't think of it increasing the nutrient density, and the culturing is supposed to break down and do some of the digesting for us so the nutrients would be more readily available.

a--alan

[Guest guest]

* a Augustine (augustines@...) [010604 20:34]:

* Subject: Re: Refractometer reading of milk:

>

> Well I have never asked him exactly what he puts on the fields. I

> have learned that he uses the refractometer for testing things on the

> farm after asking him if he knew about it. I know he uses another weird

> machine that can tell more specific information. He also knows about

> all the trace minerals you mention...We even drink sometimes a trace

> mineral supplement as they do too. I know he feeds his cows the trace

> minerals, he has bags of these things laying around. He even adds a

> mineral mixture right with the manure in the gutter in the barn...the

> manure gets composted all winter out in a field and he puts this

> composted stuff in the fields every spring. He was even looking into

> composting his manure with worms, but has not looked any further into

> this because he would have too much manure. I guess I have not been out

> to put a spade in the soil to find out how many earthworms there are..

He sounds pretty savvy. Has he gotten the soil

fertile enough that he doesn't have to worry about

insects? Has he gotten high brix values with any

fruits or vegetables?

If he is online, he may be interested in joining the

" brixtalk " emaillist group at groups. And I'm

sure that many on the list would love to hear about

his experiences.

> I am just as curious as you are. Partly because my husband and I

> would like to get a cow ourselves and kind of do the homesteading type

> hobby farming thing. I was going to try to do things like my dad. I

> always knew my dad is always learning and trying to do everything just

> right...but I guess it is not good enough yet.

He sounds like a good model to follow!

> I was also wondering about the breeding we have done for years of the

> animals. Roses have been 'bred' for beauty and looks for so long that

> [ ... ]

> vile of sperm right in the uterus instead of let

I'm sure that's an issue, particularly with Holsteins.

> [ ... ]

--alan