Re: Worried Mom of Stubborn Child

[Guest guest]

Dear Miss, I think your son needs a little bit of a spark of interest

in order to get him back on track to where you want him to go. Rather

than have him do textbook work (i know this may sound crazy but just

try it) have him do more technicial activities and things that

require imagination and thought processing. People with AS generally

prefer technical reading over fiction, i know your son is still young

but try to give him something to work on like maybe a kit of a robot

that he can assemble, or have him do art work like paintings or

charcoal drawings. I think he wants to expand his mind but doesn't

feel that he's being given the right materials that will teach him

how to do all that.

I know that math and physics all equate into being a technician, but

maybe your kid wants to work on something that is more hands on and

not so bookwormish . I've always been that way myself, i hate

academic classes when i'm in college it's too much reading and i

recently failed a understanding of music class because it was more

like a history of music class. And here to think: I'm an experienced

musician .

So basically just broaden his mind if he still acts stubborn about it

then get back to us on it, but i'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that

he would much rather be looking over diagrams and graphs and

geometric stuff instead of reading chapters of text. I hope to hear

from you soon,good luck in all you do. And most of all i wish you

luck with your aspie son, If the school board asks you what plan this

is just tell them it's the " Aspergers Syndrome adaptive learning

plan " .

Signed,

Greg

When i was in high school my special education teacher Mr.

had me help him sodder together a remote controlled robot using a

soddering gun. I know he's young but maybe a little discretion and

experience might help.

>

> I said " stubborn " in my title as a descriptive term of behavior (not

> criticizing my son). I am growing very worried about my 11 yr old

son

> whom I brought home this year to homeschool because he has

Asperger's

> Syndrome and the schools just destroyed him. He unfortunately

entered

> public school from Montessori in the 4th grade and because the

> curriculums were so different, he was WAY behind in math when

> starting fourth grade in P.S. The other kids and teachers there made

> him feel stupid and inadequate and then because of the A.S. issues,

> he never quite adapted so basically floundered for two years (4th &

> 5th grades). One teacher even made him stand and announce his

failing

> math grades to the class! Can you believe it?

> Enter Mom-the-Rescuer with Masters Degree (moi) who has decided out

> of love and concern for her child to remediate and " fix " what the

> schools have done to him. We started out well enough, getting

adapted

> to the new environment and routine, adjusting the schedule and

> classes as necesary...and then Florida was hit with four hurricanes

> back to back which threw everyone off schedule and routine (and as

> those of you familiar with A.S. know, this can be disastrous with

> these kids).

> Ever since the last storm, I have been struggling EVERY DAY to get

my

> son back on task. Struggle is perhaps too gentle a word....it is

all-

> out war. He stubbornly refuses to do ANYTHING no matter what the

> consequences and nothing phases him (not loss of TV, not loss of

> video games, not loss of play time with friends, nothing). Because

of

> the daily tension around here due to this, everyone's apple cart is

> off-kilter (family, pets, extracurriculars, everything). I'm growing

> very concerned that I could receive an order from the schools for an

> inspection of portfolio (afterall, he DOES have an IEP so they are

> aware of him) and I will have shown NOTHING for three weeks and

> counting now. While he has not made progress in getting through

> typical " curriculum " as a result....he has been spending time

> building things, taking care of animals, practicing yoga (he has his

> own coach for relaxation), attending his choir, drama classes, and

> doing general interest reading but all work in math, grammar, etc

has

> come to a screeching halt with his refusal to do anything " school

> related. " When I try to talk to him about the consequences of this

> path (both for him AND for me), he says he doesn't care, that he's

> just " stupid " anyway, doesn't plan on ever going to college or

> working, and if I get in trouble for not teaching him then so be it.

> There's a whole separate issue of complication involving his Dad

> (also A.S. and more so, unemployed, home 24/7, depressed, anger-

> management problems, not terribly supportive of H.S. efforts). This

I

> will deal with when I solve the first issue detailed above.

> I have spoken with my son's parent advocate at the Univ of Miami

> C.A.R.D. Center (center for autism related disabilities) and he has

> strongly recommended I get my son in counseling (oh GOOD! ANOTHER

> thing to try to fit in somewhere and pay for!).

> I desperately need to find a local support group (and I do mean

> LOCAL) to get involved with in activities that might jump start the

> process of getting him back in his groove. Every group I've located

> so far is either too far away, the children are too young, or they

> are far more religious than we can comfortabley be around. Anyone

> have suggestions on either how to deal with issues detailed above OR

> know of a group in the Pembroke Pines/Hollywood Florida area?

[Guest guest]

He does like art and draws a lot although the " technical/robot kit "

wouldn't work with him. He HATES anything technical....frustrates

him. I can't get him to build models, science kits, experiments, etc.

It's even a chore to get him to use the Internet for research (says

he HATES computers). Mostly he likes building things. My back yard is

a virtual construction site! I LOVE your response to a potential

school board inquiry! What a riot! I'm just so afraid they will " make

him " go back to the public school because he's not " showing progress "

(translate: paper trail).

> >

> > I said " stubborn " in my title as a descriptive term of behavior

(not

> > criticizing my son). I am growing very worried about my 11 yr old

> son

> > whom I brought home this year to homeschool because he has

> Asperger's

> > Syndrome and the schools just destroyed him. He unfortunately

> entered

> > public school from Montessori in the 4th grade and because the

> > curriculums were so different, he was WAY behind in math when

> > starting fourth grade in P.S. The other kids and teachers there

made

> > him feel stupid and inadequate and then because of the A.S.

issues,

> > he never quite adapted so basically floundered for two years (4th

&

> > 5th grades). One teacher even made him stand and announce his

> failing

> > math grades to the class! Can you believe it?

> > Enter Mom-the-Rescuer with Masters Degree (moi) who has decided

out

> > of love and concern for her child to remediate and " fix " what the

> > schools have done to him. We started out well enough, getting

> adapted

> > to the new environment and routine, adjusting the schedule and

> > classes as necesary...and then Florida was hit with four

hurricanes

> > back to back which threw everyone off schedule and routine (and as

> > those of you familiar with A.S. know, this can be disastrous with

> > these kids).

> > Ever since the last storm, I have been struggling EVERY DAY to

get

> my

> > son back on task. Struggle is perhaps too gentle a word....it is

> all-

> > out war. He stubbornly refuses to do ANYTHING no matter what the

> > consequences and nothing phases him (not loss of TV, not loss of

> > video games, not loss of play time with friends, nothing).

Because

> of

> > the daily tension around here due to this, everyone's apple cart

is

> > off-kilter (family, pets, extracurriculars, everything). I'm

growing

> > very concerned that I could receive an order from the schools for

an

> > inspection of portfolio (afterall, he DOES have an IEP so they are

> > aware of him) and I will have shown NOTHING for three weeks and

> > counting now. While he has not made progress in getting through

> > typical " curriculum " as a result....he has been spending time

> > building things, taking care of animals, practicing yoga (he has

his

> > own coach for relaxation), attending his choir, drama classes, and

> > doing general interest reading but all work in math, grammar, etc

> has

> > come to a screeching halt with his refusal to do anything " school

> > related. " When I try to talk to him about the consequences of this

> > path (both for him AND for me), he says he doesn't care, that he's

> > just " stupid " anyway, doesn't plan on ever going to college or

> > working, and if I get in trouble for not teaching him then so be

it.

> > There's a whole separate issue of complication involving his Dad

> > (also A.S. and more so, unemployed, home 24/7, depressed, anger-

> > management problems, not terribly supportive of H.S. efforts).

This

> I

> > will deal with when I solve the first issue detailed above.

> > I have spoken with my son's parent advocate at the Univ of Miami

> > C.A.R.D. Center (center for autism related disabilities) and he

has

> > strongly recommended I get my son in counseling (oh GOOD! ANOTHER

> > thing to try to fit in somewhere and pay for!).

> > I desperately need to find a local support group (and I do mean

> > LOCAL) to get involved with in activities that might jump start

the

> > process of getting him back in his groove. Every group I've

located

> > so far is either too far away, the children are too young, or they

> > are far more religious than we can comfortabley be around. Anyone

> > have suggestions on either how to deal with issues detailed above

OR

> > know of a group in the Pembroke Pines/Hollywood Florida area?

[Guest guest]

Too bad there's so much worry about a paper trail. I was priveliged to be

homeschooled

in B.C., Canada, where there's very little paper-trail requirement. My

homeschooling was

an interest-based system - basically we learnt about whatever we were interested

in,

whether by reading, or by doing, or by talking to other people who knew more

about the

subject than we do. We had almost no formal work to do. As you may well know,

this is

often known as " unschooling " . I don't know much about the details, but in

regions with

more paper-trail requirements, parents who unschool have often come up with very

creative ways to meet these requirements - possibly you could research about

that and

see if some of the things your son's doing anyways could be used to fulfill some

of the

requirements?

Maybe taking care of animals could somehow count as science, if he needs to

learn about

the animals in order to take care of them best?

Maybe, if he likes building things, math could be worked into that, since

measuring and

calculating sizes and figuring out geometry might be involved?

I don't know if those would work, but I just wanted to give some possible

examples. Sorry

I don't know where to direct you to find out more about creative ways of

fulfilling

requirements, but I'm sure there are groups you could ask, or written resources

available

somewhere.

Does he realize that there's a possibility he'd have to go back to school? Does

that bother

him?

-Estel

>

> I said " stubborn " in my title as a descriptive term of behavior (not

> criticizing my son). I am growing very worried about my 11 yr old son

> whom I brought home this year to homeschool because he has Asperger's

> Syndrome and the schools just destroyed him. He unfortunately entered

> public school from Montessori in the 4th grade and because the

> curriculums were so different, he was WAY behind in math when

> starting fourth grade in P.S. The other kids and teachers there made

> him feel stupid and inadequate and then because of the A.S. issues,

> he never quite adapted so basically floundered for two years (4th &

> 5th grades). One teacher even made him stand and announce his failing

> math grades to the class! Can you believe it?

> Enter Mom-the-Rescuer with Masters Degree (moi) who has decided out

> of love and concern for her child to remediate and " fix " what the

> schools have done to him. We started out well enough, getting adapted

> to the new environment and routine, adjusting the schedule and

> classes as necesary...and then Florida was hit with four hurricanes

> back to back which threw everyone off schedule and routine (and as

> those of you familiar with A.S. know, this can be disastrous with

> these kids).

> Ever since the last storm, I have been struggling EVERY DAY to get my

> son back on task. Struggle is perhaps too gentle a word....it is all-

> out war. He stubbornly refuses to do ANYTHING no matter what the

> consequences and nothing phases him (not loss of TV, not loss of

> video games, not loss of play time with friends, nothing). Because of

> the daily tension around here due to this, everyone's apple cart is

> off-kilter (family, pets, extracurriculars, everything). I'm growing

> very concerned that I could receive an order from the schools for an

> inspection of portfolio (afterall, he DOES have an IEP so they are

> aware of him) and I will have shown NOTHING for three weeks and

> counting now. While he has not made progress in getting through

> typical " curriculum " as a result....he has been spending time

> building things, taking care of animals, practicing yoga (he has his

> own coach for relaxation), attending his choir, drama classes, and

> doing general interest reading but all work in math, grammar, etc has

> come to a screeching halt with his refusal to do anything " school

> related. " When I try to talk to him about the consequences of this

> path (both for him AND for me), he says he doesn't care, that he's

> just " stupid " anyway, doesn't plan on ever going to college or

> working, and if I get in trouble for not teaching him then so be it.

> There's a whole separate issue of complication involving his Dad

> (also A.S. and more so, unemployed, home 24/7, depressed, anger-

> management problems, not terribly supportive of H.S. efforts). This I

> will deal with when I solve the first issue detailed above.

> I have spoken with my son's parent advocate at the Univ of Miami

> C.A.R.D. Center (center for autism related disabilities) and he has

> strongly recommended I get my son in counseling (oh GOOD! ANOTHER

> thing to try to fit in somewhere and pay for!).

> I desperately need to find a local support group (and I do mean

> LOCAL) to get involved with in activities that might jump start the

> process of getting him back in his groove. Every group I've located

> so far is either too far away, the children are too young, or they

> are far more religious than we can comfortabley be around. Anyone

> have suggestions on either how to deal with issues detailed above OR

> know of a group in the Pembroke Pines/Hollywood Florida area?

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Here are some links

you might want to check out:

Home schooling Links -

http://home.earthlink.net/~tammyglaser798/authome.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ASLearningAtHome/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/AS-HFA-homeschool/

more info

http://www.geocities.com/hs_hopeful/yahoogroups/special_needs/Autism_Spectrum.html

http://www.homeschoolzone.com/add/autism.htm

http://www.gomilpitas.com/homeschooling/weblinks/autism.htm

Best of luck!

Wendi

Worried Mom of Stubborn Child

I said " stubborn " in my title as a

descriptive term of behavior (not

criticizing my son). I am growing very worried

about my 11 yr old son

whom I brought home this year to homeschool

because he has Asperger's

Syndrome and the schools just destroyed him. He

unfortunately entered

public school from Montessori in the 4th grade and

because the

curriculums were so different, he was WAY behind

in math when

starting fourth grade in P.S. The other kids and

teachers there made

him feel stupid and inadequate and then because of

the A.S. issues,

he never quite adapted so basically floundered for

two years (4th &

5th grades). One teacher even made him stand and

announce his failing

math grades to the class! Can you believe it?

Enter Mom-the-Rescuer with Masters Degree (moi)

who has decided out

of love and concern for her child to remediate and

" fix " what the

schools have done to him. We started out well

enough, getting adapted

to the new environment and routine, adjusting the

schedule and

classes as necesary...and then Florida was hit

with four hurricanes

back to back which threw everyone off schedule and

routine (and as

those of you familiar with A.S. know, this can be

disastrous with

these kids).

Ever since the last storm, I have been struggling

EVERY DAY to get my

son back on task. Struggle is perhaps too gentle a

word....it is all-

out war. He stubbornly refuses to do ANYTHING no

matter what the

consequences and nothing phases him (not loss of

TV, not loss of

video games, not loss of play time with friends,

nothing). Because of

the daily tension around here due to this,

everyone's apple cart is

off-kilter (family, pets, extracurriculars,

everything). I'm growing

very concerned that I could receive an order from

the schools for an

inspection of portfolio (afterall, he DOES have an

IEP so they are

aware of him) and I will have shown NOTHING for

three weeks and

counting now. While he has not made progress in

getting through

typical " curriculum " as a result....he

has been spending time

building things, taking care of animals,

practicing yoga (he has his

own coach for relaxation), attending his choir,

drama classes, and

doing general interest reading but all work in

math, grammar, etc has

come to a screeching halt with his refusal to do

anything " school

related. " When I try to talk to him about the

consequences of this

path (both for him AND for me), he says he doesn't

care, that he's

just " stupid " anyway, doesn't plan on

ever going to college or

working, and if I get in trouble for not teaching

him then so be it.

There's a whole separate issue of complication

involving his Dad

(also A.S. and more so, unemployed, home 24/7,

depressed, anger-

management problems, not terribly supportive of

H.S. efforts). This I

will deal with when I solve the first issue

detailed above.

I have spoken with my son's parent advocate at the

Univ of Miami

C.A.R.D. Center (center for autism related

disabilities) and he has

strongly recommended I get my son in counseling (oh

GOOD! ANOTHER

thing to try to fit in somewhere and pay for!).

I desperately need to find a local support group

(and I do mean

LOCAL) to get involved with in activities that

might jump start the

process of getting him back in his groove. Every

group I've located

so far is either too far away, the children are

too young, or they

are far more religious than we can comfortabley be

around. Anyone

have suggestions on either how to deal with issues

detailed above OR

know of a group in the Pembroke Pines/Hollywood

Florida area?

FAM Secret

Society is a community based on respect, friendship, support and acceptance.

Everyone is valued. Always remember that.

[Guest guest]

> I can believe it.

>

> I had a teacher who made me sit in a cardboard box in the back of

the class

> and told me, in front of everyone, that she had put me in it

because she

> wasn't able to get me out of her classroom and it made her just

sick to

> look at me. (So, of course, the other children bullied me because

they had

> just been given permission by the authority figure.)

But we are adults. I would have thought education would have evolved

by now.

> It sounds like things are different in your state from where I

live. Here

> in Idaho, the family is considered sovereign and if a parent says

they're

> home-schooling, the state just lets them get on with it and only

looks into

> things if there are reports of abuse.

Florida basically leaves homeschoolers alone UNLESS you have a

special needs child. While they have no specific requirements in

terms of what you report or how, they expect a once a year, end of

year report to the Superintendent from the parents as well as some

kind of evaluation. This can run from a portfolio review, to a

standardized test, to a psych evaluation. All you are required to

show is " progress. " Period. The state may, however, request a

portfolio review with 10 days notice any time they please. This is

what has me worried (because he has been coded).

> You say he enjoys building things and the back yard is full of

things he's

> built? Tell the IEP people that he's on a vocational track and show

them

> the things he's built (or good photos of them) as his portfolio.

See if

> he's willing to discuss his constructions with a visiting authority

as an

> informal oral presentation of his learning progress. He's probably

learning

> a whole lot more while doing that building than you realize.

I've heard before that this course of action might be acceptable. I

just have a hard time believing it would be. We've had many

experiences like this where I thought he was learning but the schools

may not think so. Like when the tree guy came here to trim prior to

the hurricanes, I took pictures of him cutting the trees; he gave a

cross cut of a trunk to my son so he could see the different

rings/layers which we then went and looked up in his science

encyclopedia. We also tracked the hurricanes on a tracking chart by

coordinates. I thought he has learned a lot but his Dad was sneering

at me (as were the neighbors who saw him outside hanging with the

tree guy) and making snide remarks about my son's state of " no-

school. "

>

> You say he does read general interest stuff? I'm guessing stuff

like comic

> books or something similar?

Actually, he has more sophisticated tastes in reading. He does like

Anime, yes, but his readings tend toward the bizarre (for his age).

He LOVED Beowulf and read it again and again. He read the whole

Shogun series and went on a Japan fetish for about 2 years where he

immersed himself in the culture. Taught himself Kanji from a course,

had me make him traditional Japanese clothes (I sew as a hobby),

redecorated his whole room in a Japanese theme, and read everything

he could find fiction and non on the land and culture. My Mom got mad

at him for insisting on wearing his Japanese garb when we visited for

the holidays and rebuked him sternly (and me as well) and told him

to " dress like a normal kid! " Now we're reading Sir Gawain and the

Green Knight. He can watch the History Channel for hours when they

show anything other than their usual military flair. He also likes

anything, anytime, anywhere about vampires (although this taste is

starting to worry me because he is doing with it what he did with the

Japan fetish and people around us are finding it more than just

weird. He dresses like one, wears prosthesis fangs that look real,

has redecorated his room in a " blood theme " that I find a little

disturbing....splattered fake blood on the walls and blood messages

on his door warning any who enter. He won't leave the house unless I

let him take his vampire cape and even then only after a hours long

ritual of prepping himself and checking in the mirror for how he

looks. If it's not just right, he pitches a fit, goes into a rage,

and refuses to go anywhere or do anything. At that point, we just let

him decompress alone. We have had to go all over town looking for

just the right herb or spice for his " spells " for in addition to the

vampire fetish, he likes anything Magik (NOT " magic " as in tricks,

but as in witchcaft.) I'm hoping this is just another passing

interest.

>

> You say he doesn't like chemistry sets or electronic sets (I loved

both of

> those as a kid!) well, have you tried him with toys like this:

> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00009SZYU

> (which intuitively teaches geometric principles)

> or this:

> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00011F5DK

> (which teaches number theory and combinatorics - both upper-level

college

> topics!)

> or this:

> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000063TQK

> (which teaches the fundamentals of structural integrity and other

basic

> architectural and building knowledge)

Thanks for the resources. I always try anything until I spark an

interest. I'll give them a whirl. As for videos, he finds most too

baby-fied for him (says they talk down to him). I have managed to get

him to watch some of the " Standards Deviants " kids math videos. He

likes the goofy humor thay use to keep you paying attention.

[Guest guest]

Sparrow:

>> look at me. (So, of course, the other children bullied me because

>they had

>> just been given permission by the authority figure.)

macd_etc:

>But we are adults. I would have thought education would have evolved

>by now.

Sparrow:

Has society evolved since then?

macd_etc:

>Florida basically leaves homeschoolers alone UNLESS you have a

>special needs child.

Sparrow:

I realize this is a pretty extreme sugestion, but is moving to another

state an option?

macd_etc:

>I've heard before that this course of action might be acceptable. I

>just have a hard time believing it would be. We've had many

>experiences like this where I thought he was learning but the schools

>may not think so. Like when the tree guy came here to trim prior to

>the hurricanes, I took pictures of him cutting the trees; he gave a

>cross cut of a trunk to my son so he could see the different

>rings/layers which we then went and looked up in his science

>encyclopedia. We also tracked the hurricanes on a tracking chart by

>coordinates.

Sparrow:

The way to make these things valid for a portfolio is to document them. It

doesn't always have to be written essays. Does your son like photography?

He could do a photo scrapbook with brief comments under the photos. For

example, he could go " bird collecting " by trying to photograph as many

different kinds of birds as possible and making a scrapbook where he put

the bird's name (after looking it up in a guide) and maybe a few notes

about what it eats or how it nests or whether it's migratory or not.

For most kids, that's not " school stuff " but it is a valid portfolio item

to show that he's learning the rudiments of biology/zoology. For his age

level, it's an appropriate demonstration of learning and progress.

macd_etc:

>I thought he has learned a lot but his Dad was sneering

>at me (as were the neighbors who saw him outside hanging with the

>tree guy) and making snide remarks about my son's state of " no-

>school. "

Sparrow:

I'd tell you what I'd like to do to those neighbors, but I probably

couldn't do it without upsetting a lot of people here! The nicest way I can

say it is that I think they should just go stuff themselves! The next time

a neighbor makes a snide comment about your family's life, say, " you really

do need a hobby. " If they ask what you mean, tell them, " you seem to have

so much time to stick your nose in my family's business. I just think it

would be healthier for you to focus on your own life. "

I've talked to parents of homeschooled kids who took their kid to visit the

fire station, the bank, the police station and many similar places of

business (calling ahead first to arrange it.) What's so different about

visiting the tree guy???

macd_etc:

>Actually, he has more sophisticated tastes in reading. He does like

>Anime, yes, but his readings tend toward the bizarre (for his age).

>He LOVED Beowulf and read it again and again. He read the whole

>Shogun series and went on a Japan fetish for about 2 years where he

>immersed himself in the culture. Taught himself Kanji from a course,

>had me make him traditional Japanese clothes (I sew as a hobby),

>redecorated his whole room in a Japanese theme, and read everything

>he could find fiction and non on the land and culture.

Sparrow:

Sounds like a normal Aspie kid to me!

macd_etc:

> My Mom got mad

>at him for insisting on wearing his Japanese garb when we visited for

>the holidays and rebuked him sternly (and me as well) and told him

>to " dress like a normal kid! "

Sparrow:

Grrrrr!

Everything I said in my last letter about letting him be who he is? All

that seems to apply TEN TIMES AS MUCH to Grandmom!

macd_etc:

> Now we're reading Sir Gawain and the

>Green Knight.

Sparrow:

Great book!

macd_etc:

>He can watch the History Channel for hours when they

>show anything other than their usual military flair. He also likes

>anything, anytime, anywhere about vampires (although this taste is

>starting to worry me because he is doing with it what he did with the

>Japan fetish and people around us are finding it more than just

>weird. He dresses like one, wears prosthesis fangs that look real,

>has redecorated his room in a " blood theme " that I find a little

>disturbing....splattered fake blood on the walls and blood messages

>on his door warning any who enter. He won't leave the house unless I

>let him take his vampire cape and even then only after a hours long

>ritual of prepping himself and checking in the mirror for how he

>looks. If it's not just right, he pitches a fit, goes into a rage,

>and refuses to go anywhere or do anything. At that point, we just let

>him decompress alone. We have had to go all over town looking for

>just the right herb or spice for his " spells " for in addition to the

>vampire fetish, he likes anything Magik (NOT " magic " as in tricks,

>but as in witchcaft.) I'm hoping this is just another passing

>interest.

Sparrow:

Probably the answer to that is yes and no. Yes, he will move on to some

other " perseveration. " No, the Magick and the Vampire lore will always be a

part of him, even once he's moved on to other stuff.

When I was about his age, I read the complete works of Edgar Allan Poe. I

watched every episode of that truly awful soap opera, " Dark Shadows. " I

read every book I could find in every library I could access about

witchcraft and the occult. I begged my father to buy me more occult books

that I couldn't find in the library. I wrangled with my mother because I

wanted to burn black candles and she refused to allow any candle burning of

any type in the house. I haunted the woods near my house and built a magick

circle there.

Your son sounds pretty normal to me. But then, I'm an Aspie, too! :-)

I'm no longer so obviously " morbid " as I was at age twelve, but that

fascination with " darkness " stayed with me in various forms. I've studied

the an Rosicrucian revival. I've studied Blake's

intriguing form of " Satanism. " I've also dug deeply into the history of

first century Judea including what's left of the Jewish mysticism of the

time to learn more about the Christ. I've read the Koran, the

Bhagavad-Gita, the King Bible, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Egyptian and

Tibetan Books of the Dead, The Book of Mormon and more: cover-to-cover. My

early interest in the " dark and spooky " turned into a fascination with

comparative religion.

Perseverations are strong and you never know where they'll lead. Even when

they seem to have been laid aside, there's still an echo of them somewhere

in everything that follows.

macd_etc:

>Thanks for the resources. I always try anything until I spark an

>interest. I'll give them a whirl. As for videos, he finds most too

>baby-fied for him (says they talk down to him). I have managed to get

>him to watch some of the " Standards Deviants " kids math videos. He

>likes the goofy humor thay use to keep you paying attention.

Sparrow:

I've heard good things about " Standard Deviants " but I've never seen it.

If kid videos talk down to him, look for grown-up stuff. Check out your

public library - they often have educational videos for check-out. Let him

look through the shelf and see if anything catches his eye. Even at my tiny

library (I live in a town of about 50,000 people; the second largest city

in the whole state) I found some really neat videos that I learned a lot

from. Also check out the video rental stores in the area and see if any of

them have a non-fiction section.

And look at some of the higher-quality historical fiction as well. There's

a Civil War trilogy being put together - the second installment just came

out and is touted as being much better than the first (haven't seen the

second one yet) but they are really good and very accurate with the

exception that they don't make the battle scenes as bloody as they really

were. I'm excited to see the second movie, though, because it focuses on

the Confederacy and shows them as humans, not as the cardboard cut-out " bad

guys " they so often end up as.

The second movie (which is actually a prequel to the first) just came out

last year and it's called " Gods and Generals " and has Duvall playing

E. Lee. The first movie came out in 1993 and it's called

" Gettysburg. " Sheen plays E. Lee in it (I'm told that Duvall

makes a better Lee.) I've seen Gettysburg and it's just wonderful ... I

don't know whether your son would find it boring or interesting, but if he

likes it, it's a painless way to get a lot of American history in.

Gettysburg was filmed at the actual historical battlesites and they hired

Civil War Re-enactor Hobbyists to play the parts of soldiers since they

already have very accurate costumes and have lots of practice at

reproducing the wars on the actual battlesites every year. It's just a neat

movie and I think anyone who is looking for entertainment and education at

the same time ought to give it a try to see if they like it.

Both movies are made by the same director but I'm not sure when the third

and final one (supposedly called " Last Full Measure " ) is due out. He's

currently working on a movie about Joan of Arc.

Sparrow

[Guest guest]

]

> > You say he does read general interest stuff? I'm guessing stuff

> like comic

> > books or something similar?

>

> Actually, he has more sophisticated tastes in reading. He does like

> Anime, yes, but his readings tend toward the bizarre (for his age).

> He LOVED Beowulf and read it again and again. He read the whole

> Shogun series and went on a Japan fetish for about 2 years where he

> immersed himself in the culture. Taught himself Kanji from a course,

> had me make him traditional Japanese clothes (I sew as a hobby),

> redecorated his whole room in a Japanese theme, and read everything

> he could find fiction and non on the land and culture. My Mom got mad

> at him for insisting on wearing his Japanese garb when we visited for

> the holidays and rebuked him sternly (and me as well) and told him

> to " dress like a normal kid! " Now we're reading Sir Gawain and the

> Green Knight. He can watch the History Channel for hours when they

> show anything other than their usual military flair.

That (except for the Anime) sounds SO MUCH like me as a kid, and all those

things sound

very educational. I was fascinated by ancient and medieval English language,

and along

with that the history and literature. I also went through periods of being

interested in

different countries and their associated cultures and languages, including

Japanese. It was

very educational, but I didn't think of it as education, it was just fun

and fascinating. When I was around 13, my dad read " Sir Gawain and the Green

Knight "

with me in the original Middle English. I assume youguys are reading it in

translation?

Might he be interested in seeing it in the original language? I know that when

I was that

age, I pored over texts in Modern English and Middle English, figuring out how

the words

had changed over time, and matching them up in tables. When I watched TV (which

was

rare, because we didn't own one), I liked to watch informational programs,

ideally nature

programs.

Does he like systematizing information? That's the main kind of paper trail I

left - making

up charts and tables of related information, e.g.

- as I mentioned, comparing words from different periods of English

- researching about different kinds of squirrels, and making a chart of their

length, tail

lengths, weights, etc.

- family-tree charts of characters in books where there are a lot of related

characters

etc.

I never did much connected writing as a kid, but I made lots of these charts and

tables and

so on.

-Estel

[Guest guest]

> I said " stubborn " in my title as a descriptive term of behavior

(not

> criticizing my son). I am growing very worried about my 11 yr old

son

> whom I brought home this year to homeschool because he has

Asperger's

> Syndrome and the schools just destroyed him. He unfortunately

entered

> public school from Montessori in the 4th grade and because the

> curriculums were so different, he was WAY behind in math when

> starting fourth grade in P.S. The other kids and teachers there

made

> him feel stupid and inadequate and then because of the A.S. issues,

> he never quite adapted so basically floundered for two years (4th &

> 5th grades). One teacher even made him stand and announce his

failing

> math grades to the class! Can you believe it?

Oh yeah, I more than believe it, I'm in the UK but the suffering of

AS kids in school is no different here to the USA. My eldest had

his first serious nervous breakdown at the grand old age of seven

and three attempts to get him back in to school since have had the

same effect until we put a stop to it and said NO MORE.

Unfortunately it backfired for a time and we ended up being

persecuted under Child Protection proceedings because we began to

have the same problems with our other Son who also has AS and became

school phobic.

Schools aren't geared up or educated sufficiently to offer a

supportive and safe environment and certainly in the UK one of the

biggest groups that have opted to home ed are parents of AS

children.

> Enter Mom-the-Rescuer with Masters Degree (moi) who has decided out

> of love and concern for her child to remediate and " fix " what the

> schools have done to him. We started out well enough, getting

adapted

> to the new environment and routine, adjusting the schedule and

> classes as necesary...and then Florida was hit with four hurricanes

> back to back which threw everyone off schedule and routine (and as

> those of you familiar with A.S. know, this can be disastrous with

> these kids).

> Ever since the last storm, I have been struggling EVERY DAY to get

my

> son back on task. Struggle is perhaps too gentle a word....it is

all-

> out war. He stubbornly refuses to do ANYTHING no matter what the

> consequences and nothing phases him (not loss of TV, not loss of

> video games, not loss of play time with friends, nothing).

OK, we had this too, all started out well and then fell to pieces.

Routine is a must but if the classroom way of teaching has instilled

fear then throw it out of the window. I don't know what it's called

in the US but here in the UK we have e-learning all done via the

internet. You choose the classes your Son is interested in, and

trust me the curriculum is NOT always AS friendly so choose lessons

he WANTS to do and ones that will hold his interest not have him

fighting you every step of the way. Then set him a routine that has

no resemblance to a darned school class room, even if it means a

lesson then tv, lesson tv and so on as long as he covers his days

classes then it doesn't matter if he has breaks to regroup.

The whole idea of home education and the reason it was started was

because a minority of parents didn't like the way school is set up

to be like a military clockwork establishment where a group of

people all the same age are in a room together for hours on end

forced to learn like little clones.

Because of

> the daily tension around here due to this, everyone's apple cart is

> off-kilter (family, pets, extracurriculars, everything). I'm

growing

> very concerned that I could receive an order from the schools for

an

> inspection of portfolio (afterall, he DOES have an IEP so they are

> aware of him) and I will have shown NOTHING for three weeks and

> counting now. While he has not made progress in getting through

> typical " curriculum " as a result....he has been spending time

> building things, taking care of animals, practicing yoga (he has

his

> own coach for relaxation), attending his choir, drama classes, and

> doing general interest reading but all work in math, grammar, etc

has

> come to a screeching halt with his refusal to do anything " school

> related. "

So if they come poking around TELL them what he has been doing and

that until he has healed from the damage done to him by the school

environment you are teaching him life skills and will address the

other academic skills as and when the healing has taken place. If

they want to argue tell them to visit FAM and we'll all back you.

In fact if you email me on my private mail I'll send you lots of

links for home education and some brilliant support links for the US

if you'd like some?

When I try to talk to him about the consequences of this

> path (both for him AND for me), he says he doesn't care, that he's

> just " stupid " anyway, doesn't plan on ever going to college or

> working, and if I get in trouble for not teaching him then so be

it.

If I'm not being presumptuous, as a Mum with AS and also home

educating two AS children for exactly the same reasons you find

yourself in,leave the consequences well alone. If he's saying he's

stupid the damage is deep and now is not the time to try and

overload him with other things that will instill fear and have him

rebelling harder and longer. Relax into what is best for him and

you right now and once he realises you are on his side and he's not

being threatened especially by you who I hate to have to say it is

his safety net he will slowly but surely begin to heal and will

realise himself that he's FAR from stupid.

> There's a whole separate issue of complication involving his Dad

> (also A.S. and more so, unemployed, home 24/7, depressed, anger-

> management problems, not terribly supportive of H.S. efforts).

Ahh, now Dad is another matter altogether, as an adult unemployed

and seeing this happening to his offspring he's got a whole bunch of

scars himself that you may find have re-opened. How different would

his life have been if someone had realised and said to him ok, so we

take out the monster and teach you at home? Hearing his Son say

he's stupid is also probably raising feelings that he himself has

faced over many years and a feeling that a lot of us have had;

feeling stupid is something we learn at a very early age in the

education system not only from our peers but also teachers.

This I

> will deal with when I solve the first issue detailed above.

> I have spoken with my son's parent advocate at the Univ of Miami

> C.A.R.D. Center (center for autism related disabilities) and he has

> strongly recommended I get my son in counseling (oh GOOD! ANOTHER

> thing to try to fit in somewhere and pay for!).

You know that really flicks my switch, counselling is FINE if you

can locate a counsellor who has sufficient understanding and

experience of working with Kids who have AS, otherwise your start

walking yet another inappropriate path that leaves you on that never

ending roller coaster.

> I desperately need to find a local support group (and I do mean

> LOCAL) to get involved with in activities that might jump start the

> process of getting him back in his groove. Every group I've located

> so far is either too far away, the children are too young, or they

> are far more religious than we can comfortabley be around. Anyone

> have suggestions on either how to deal with issues detailed above

OR

> know of a group in the Pembroke Pines/Hollywood Florida area?

OK, I'm in the UK, but we have a fantastic organisation here called

Education Otherwise, I will email them for you if you'd like me to?

I can ask them if they know of any similar groups in the US, because

I know that here in the UK by law you don't have to follow the

curriculum, and you don't have to agree to have education advisors

in your home. They have a co-ordinator in EVERY County, not sure if

that would be State in the US? The co-ordinator will visit and

support wherever necessary, they also have special needs advisors

and although they aren't for each county they are available by phone

to speak to.

This may well take up too much board space but if you would like me

to help you locate the type of support you need I have friends in

the US who are home educating and can ask them initially for links

and groups you can access. The only thing I'm very sad about is we

were due to come to Florida in December for 21 nights and swim with

Dolphins, due to the child protection here it wiped out our savings

and our holiday money and we lost our holiday (Sigh), never mind

another time.

Hope this has all been helpful and not too bossy, I'm afraid this is

a topic guaranteed to get me on my soap box. I'm here if you would

like to research help and support and also the rules for home

educating in the US, the internet can be marvellous for families

like ours trust me.

Debs