Guest guest Posted November 30, 2002 Report Share Posted November 30, 2002 Hi Toni, I'm not a trained analyst. I just have an interest in Jung and his associates and read quite a bit on it. So my comments are not meant to be anything beyond observational in nature. I wonder if the sickness might be related to the changes that the ego experiences throughout life. In the first half of life, according to Jung, the task is ego development with a distinct separation between ego and Self. The second half of life changes this and here we have a movement towards the surrender of ego, toward ego-self reunion. So I wonder if this sickness can be related to one's consciousness becoming progressively more aware of the limitations of ego. To me, it seems reasonable that the selfishness of ego and the survival instinct associated with ego are in a way a sickness when one looks at it from the eyes of Self. I like what you said about sickness coming from the same life force which gives us life in the beginning. Self would see this bigger picture; ego would not. Just a thought. Dreams can be more literal, sort of a re-hash of our worries, etc. or they can be more symbolic. If someone was worried about being sick for some real reason (early death of parent, not feeling well, shocking sudden death of a friend, etc.) then I think the dream is simply literal. On a symbolic level, one's own sickness in a dream can probably mean many things. I personally derive a lot of sense from viewing ego as archetype, and therefore, one would ask WHO really was sick in the dream, ego or self? What do you think? > >Reply-To: JUNG-FIRE >To: <JUNG-FIRE > >Subject: Dreams od sickness >Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 12:32:20 -0500 > >Has anyone ever had a dream in which the dream figure is sick, yet when >awake there is nothing physically wrong with the dreamer's health? > >I get them occasionally and immediately believe the dream is diagnostic in >some way and I should go to the doctor. I don't of course, but I do worry a >bit about why this dream. > >I read an insightful comment made by Max Zeller who was lucky enough to >have had Jung for an analyst and who himself was a founder of and member of >the C.G. Jung Institute of Los Angeles. > >He wrote, about sickness as a symbol:When the dream says someone is sick, >we take it as just a diagnosticstatement about disease or an affliction of >the psyche and acknowledged there. It is a hidden sickness, a secret >suffering not known before. The unconscious opens up a new dimension which >becomes manifest through the dream and widens and balances the one sided >conscious outlook. >However the question arises whether we can discover a specific meaning of >sickness in a dream when we compare the motif to other somewhat similar >themes: for example invasion or flood dreams, or those which picture a >catastrophe like an earthquake or hostile attack. In all such dreams man is >subjected to subjected to suffering, affliction, danger and threat. The >difference becomes apparent when we see that sickness, especially serious >sickness, comes to man from the very life force that moves him. from the >totality of his very being. It is an inseparable part of himself-of the >Self- and touches him in a way different from a natural catastrophe or an >enemy attack. Any misfortune is a hard and bitter lot, but sickness belongs >more intimately to us, is closer to our skin. It gets at the very >foundation, to the very core of man's life, an inseparable reality which >changes the outlook and rhythm of our daily existence. >Dream images of illness then,communicate a disturbance in the flow of life. >Although the dreamer himself may have felt that all in not well and that he >is in a bad way, frustrated, cut off and depressed;although he may be >tormented and complain and bemoan his fate, he will hardly ever think of >himself as being sick. The more striking it is, then, when the dream >pictures him a sick man. >What is behind his sickness? He suffers because he is torn. The opposites >are at war in him, in open conflict, with no solution in sight. There is >nothing at present that can reconcile consciousness and unconsciousness >which together make up the total man. " > " The Dream-Vision of the Night " > >There is not always an easy way out, is there? > >Toni > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2002 Report Share Posted November 30, 2002 > -----Original Message----- > From: Palerme > > I'm not a trained analyst. I just have an interest in Jung and his > associates and read quite a bit on it. So my comments are > not meant to be > anything beyond observational in nature. Ditto for me. I can only relate what I've experienced, and how I try to understand it. (Newbie here, just joined after the 'plug' over at Jung-L. So take whatever I say with the appropriate grain and/or mountain of salt, lol.) The only dream I can remember that involved a sick or dying figure was one that happened about 22 years ago, and it was so powerful that I've never been able to forget it. It involved both of the aspects discussed, i.e., a seemingly malevolent 'natural' environment that was affecting the lives of its inhabitants and a very prominent but dying figure. I was in some sort of post-apocalyptic nightmare landscape, desperately searching for something I had to find before I could leave... and I had to leave, because staying meant certain decay and death. I didn't know what I was looking for until I found it, but of course once I did it was perfectly obvious that this what I had been looking for all along. It was the figure of a man (who took the form of a real man who was quite important to me at the time, although not someone I knew personally) who was lying on the ground with what seemed to be a ragged shroud over his head. I didn't know who it was until I pulled the shroud away from his face, that's when I knew that I had been looking for him all along. I told him we had to leave, and NOW, but it was clear that whatever was killing everyone and everything around us, had already done its work on him as well. He told me it was too late, that he was dying, and that I would have to go on without him. " You have to go on without me. " Those exact words. Still gives me the chills, after all this time. Of course this made little sense to me as a 16 year old, although it took me days to shake the feeling I had when I awoke from the dream... and I awoke as soon as he made his 'deathbed' pronouncement. (I should add that I didn't actually see him die, but in the dream it was clear that this would occur.) Now I look back on him as the first remembered appearance of my animus, loving and supportive and desperately sought after but too damaged at the time to be of any assistance, or properly integrated, if you will. (And this makes wonderful sense to me now, looking back on my early life - the details of which I won't go into. Suffice it to say I had very real reasons to view the 'masculine' in this way.) So I suppose I did what he told me I had to do - I simply went on without him, for about 10 years, when he started to turn up again right about the time I started reading Jung (take that for what it's worth, lol.) Fortunately he's a lot more robust now - seems to have made a full recovery, lol - and his 'resurrection' marked a very real point of change for me personally. It usually does when he decides to make an appearance. It's always my tendency to view figures in dreams as parts of my self - or Self - with whom I need to have a little tete-a-tete, for whatever reason. So, depending on context, I would usually look at a sick or dying figure as some part of me that either needs to be worked on, developed more fully - brought back to health, in other words - or as a part of me that no longer serves a purpose in its current form and needs to 'die' in order to make way for something new. Kione Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2002 Report Share Posted November 30, 2002 Hi Kione, Thanks for relaying your dream and I like how you related it to the animus figure, also your comment that each part of the dream, each character, is really just another aspect of ourselves. I am just busting at the seams with the desire to tell you about one of my dreams which is THEE most significant dream of my life so far. The dream was definitely triggered by a real life event...a fishing trip in the Gulf of Mexico. My husband and our 6 year old son had been up on the upper level of the boat with the captain and I was on the lower level with the other guests, fishing off the back of the boat. I don't know what made me turn around but there I saw my little son coming down the ladder which was situated on the edge of the boat, coming down unattended and with no life jacket on. The boat was lurching every now and then and I just about had a heart attack. So this is what happened in my dream. I dreamed that my son fell overboard and very impulsively I jumped in after him. As I tried to reach him, I realized that I hadn't even taken a good breath before I jumped in. He was fighting me, for I needed him to put his arms around my neck and hold on because I needed both my arms to paddle back up and my legs also. So I left him and went back up to the surface, taking in a good very deep breath. When I got back down to him, I tried to get him again to put his arms around my neck and hold on but I couldn't get him to understand and he kept on fighting me. My lungs were absolutely bursting, they were on fire for want of air, and I realized that I would have to leave him there or die with him. Quite a terrible dream, isn't it? I suppose it was really a nightmare. Apparently, even in real life, I must have been holding my breath as in the dream for I woke up with my lungs bursting. I had this dream several times over the course of 6 months or so. This was 11 years ago and it came at a time when I knew I had to leave my marriage yet I was very torn with the whole thing because my sons were still little. Anyway, at first glance, it reflected my feelings within the marriage. But now I realize that 'my son' was representing a part of myself, the contrasting parts of myself which were in total disarray with each other. I don't know if it was an anima/animus dream as much as it was a battle with convention and following societal mores vs. breaking out from the crap of life. I think I was trying to 'save' myself from the death which was necessary in order to move on to a higher sort of awareness. Looking back, it was quite a symbolic dream. My choice was to stay with him and die myself (keep the status quo) or let him die and go on living (find out what was beyond the edge of my current knowledge.) I did take the latter road in my life. I think my dream is a perfect example of your comment of the possibility that a sick or dying figure indicates something which no longer serves a purpose in its current form and needs to 'die' in order to make way for something new. VERY TRUE! > >Reply-To: JUNG-FIRE >To: <JUNG-FIRE > >Subject: RE: Dreams od sickness >Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 15:25:42 -0500 > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Palerme > > > > I'm not a trained analyst. I just have an interest in Jung and his > > associates and read quite a bit on it. So my comments are > > not meant to be > > anything beyond observational in nature. > >Ditto for me. I can only relate what I've experienced, and how I try to >understand it. (Newbie here, just joined after the 'plug' over at >Jung-L. So take whatever I say with the appropriate grain and/or >mountain of salt, lol.) > >The only dream I can remember that involved a sick or dying figure was >one that happened about 22 years ago, and it was so powerful that I've >never been able to forget it. It involved both of the aspects discussed, >i.e., a seemingly malevolent 'natural' environment that was affecting >the lives of its inhabitants and a very prominent but dying figure. I >was in some sort of post-apocalyptic nightmare landscape, desperately >searching for something I had to find before I could leave... and I had >to leave, because staying meant certain decay and death. I didn't know >what I was looking for until I found it, but of course once I did it was >perfectly obvious that this what I had been looking for all along. It >was the figure of a man (who took the form of a real man who was quite >important to me at the time, although not someone I knew personally) who >was lying on the ground with what seemed to be a ragged shroud over his >head. I didn't know who it was until I pulled the shroud away from his >face, that's when I knew that I had been looking for him all along. I >told him we had to leave, and NOW, but it was clear that whatever was >killing everyone and everything around us, had already done its work on >him as well. He told me it was too late, that he was dying, and that I >would have to go on without him. " You have to go on without me. " Those >exact words. Still gives me the chills, after all this time. > >Of course this made little sense to me as a 16 year old, although it >took me days to shake the feeling I had when I awoke from the dream... >and I awoke as soon as he made his 'deathbed' pronouncement. (I should >add that I didn't actually see him die, but in the dream it was clear >that this would occur.) Now I look back on him as the first remembered >appearance of my animus, loving and supportive and desperately sought >after but too damaged at the time to be of any assistance, or properly >integrated, if you will. (And this makes wonderful sense to me now, >looking back on my early life - the details of which I won't go into. >Suffice it to say I had very real reasons to view the 'masculine' in >this way.) So I suppose I did what he told me I had to do - I simply >went on without him, for about 10 years, when he started to turn up >again right about the time I started reading Jung (take that for what >it's worth, lol.) Fortunately he's a lot more robust now - seems to have >made a full recovery, lol - and his 'resurrection' marked a very real >point of change for me personally. It usually does when he decides to >make an appearance. > >It's always my tendency to view figures in dreams as parts of my self - >or Self - with whom I need to have a little tete-a-tete, for whatever >reason. So, depending on context, I would usually look at a sick or >dying figure as some part of me that either needs to be worked on, >developed more fully - brought back to health, in other words - or as a >part of me that no longer serves a purpose in its current form and needs >to 'die' in order to make way for something new. > >Kione > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2002 Report Share Posted November 30, 2002 Dear , Well, at 71 I qualify for the second part of life. And I have been at this practice for individuation for a long time.(Including 8 years of analysis.)...and I still do not always understand my dreams...usually, during analysis the meaning I thought fit and what my Jungian analyst thought were never even close. I know many of the symbols, yet sometimes I am left " up a tree without a paddle " I doubt dreams are ever to be taken literally. Jung warns that if it seems an obvious answer, one is wrong in one's interpretation. Since one's dreams are compensatory to one's consciousness, it would always tell you something you were not aware of or had not " fixed' in yourself. Nothing that one is already conscious of would need be in a dream, unless perhaps we were ignoring or overplaying it. Dreams are " wake-up calls " meant to make us more whole...rehashing the day or its worries doesn't seem to qualify, I think. I'm glad you liked what I said, but those are not my words. I quoted directly from a great man, Max Zeller, who discussed his dreams often with Jung. you said: " So I wonder if this sickness can be related to one's consciousness becoming > progressively more aware of the limitations of ego. To me, it seems > reasonable that the selfishness of ego and the survival instinct associated > with ego are in a way a sickness when one looks at it from the eyes of Self. " > I think you made a good observation., in general. We all are in constant conflict with ego as we try to become more and more conscious. I have learned many things in my life and experience.Some of it only after many bitter battles. Acceptance, an active acceptance is a necessity, for individuation. What is, IS. and more than that for me. I say " just so " as it " should be " Because of that conscious awareness, my ego becomes more and more used to its limitations. Still, however, it has a long way to go. But I am very conscious of it almost all of the time...usually one minute after it has asserted itself once again. No point in survival or its instinct, if it makes one veers off too much on one's journey. The ego must survive, and it will as long as one is alive. It must not be assumed by the Self. it rules, at the best of times as subordinate to the Self. But an ego we must have and be aware off. ( Jung would have disliked the word 'selflessness-' also because without a Self who are we? I think the word 'selfishness' can not be in a Jungian vocabulary. Self is the opposite of what that term implies, don't you think? Egotisn, ego- centricity, egoism, yes, they would be useful words, but Self can be one's image of the Image of G-d...so self " ishness " makes little sense. Of course, every image in a dream is some part of the dreamer, except perhaps for those one is in constant or continual contact with...tho' I think even then, it is wise to assume the dream is part of oneself and has something to tell us about ourselves.But ego and Self are one whole...even when one swallows the other which is a tragedy. One's unconscious can not be " sick " . it must be our consciousness which needs a nudge. Something in the unconscious may need to come into awareness instead of buried in the personal unconscious where we repressed it instead of meeting it head on. At least that is the way I see it. I just wish I could underdstand the symbols better so I could pay more attention and heal what needs healing. I ask the Self, to keep whatever I cannot decipher at the moment and let it do its stuff even if my awareness falters. ( As when you suddenly forget what you dreamt before you can write it down. Maddening isn't it.? I think the psyche can work on me even if I am not conscious at the moment of its meaning. Anyway, I know who is sick, because the dream comes. But then, what must be healed? Toni Original Message ----- To: <JUNG-FIRE > Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 1:19 PM Subject: Re: Dreams od sickness > > Hi Toni, > > I'm not a trained analyst. I just have an interest in Jung and his > associates and read quite a bit on it. So my comments are not meant to be > anything beyond observational in nature. > > I wonder if the sickness might be related to the changes that the ego > experiences throughout life. In the first half of life, according to Jung, > the task is ego development with a distinct separation between ego and Self. > The second half of life changes this and here we have > a movement towards the surrender of ego, toward ego-self reunion. > > So I wonder if this sickness can be related to one's consciousness becoming > progressively more aware of the limitations of ego. To me, it seems > reasonable that the selfishness of ego and the survival instinct associated > with ego are in a way a sickness when one looks at it from the eyes of Self. > > I like what you said about sickness coming from the same life force which > gives us life in the beginning. Self would see this bigger picture; ego > would not. > > Just a thought. Dreams can be more literal, sort of a re-hash of our > worries, etc. or they can be more symbolic. If someone was worried about > being sick for some real reason (early death of parent, not feeling well, > shocking sudden death of a friend, etc.) then I think the dream is simply > literal. On a symbolic level, one's own sickness in a dream can probably > mean many things. I personally derive a lot of sense from viewing ego as > archetype, and therefore, one would ask WHO really was sick in the dream, > ego or self? > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: JUNG-FIRE > >To: <JUNG-FIRE > > >Subject: Dreams od sickness > >Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 12:32:20 -0500 > > > >Has anyone ever had a dream in which the dream figure is sick, yet when > >awake there is nothing physically wrong with the dreamer's health? > > > >I get them occasionally and immediately believe the dream is diagnostic in > >some way and I should go to the doctor. I don't of course, but I do worry a > >bit about why this dream. > > > >I read an insightful comment made by Max Zeller who was lucky enough to > >have had Jung for an analyst and who himself was a founder of and member of > >the C.G. Jung Institute of Los Angeles. > > > >He wrote, about sickness as a symbol:When the dream says someone is sick, > >we take it as just a diagnosticstatement about disease or an affliction of > >the psyche and acknowledged there. It is a hidden sickness, a secret > >suffering not known before. The unconscious opens up a new dimension which > >becomes manifest through the dream and widens and balances the one sided > >conscious outlook. > >However the question arises whether we can discover a specific meaning of > >sickness in a dream when we compare the motif to other somewhat similar > >themes: for example invasion or flood dreams, or those which picture a > >catastrophe like an earthquake or hostile attack. In all such dreams man is > >subjected to subjected to suffering, affliction, danger and threat. The > >difference becomes apparent when we see that sickness, especially serious > >sickness, comes to man from the very life force that moves him. from the > >totality of his very being. It is an inseparable part of himself-of the > >Self- and touches him in a way different from a natural catastrophe or an > >enemy attack. Any misfortune is a hard and bitter lot, but sickness belongs > >more intimately to us, is closer to our skin. It gets at the very > >foundation, to the very core of man's life, an inseparable reality which > >changes the outlook and rhythm of our daily existence. > >Dream images of illness then,communicate a disturbance in the flow of life. > >Although the dreamer himself may have felt that all in not well and that he > >is in a bad way, frustrated, cut off and depressed;although he may be > >tormented and complain and bemoan his fate, he will hardly ever think of > >himself as being sick. The more striking it is, then, when the dream > >pictures him a sick man. > >What is behind his sickness? He suffers because he is torn. The opposites > >are at war in him, in open conflict, with no solution in sight. There is > >nothing at present that can reconcile consciousness and unconsciousness > >which together make up the total man. " > > " The Dream-Vision of the Night " > > > >There is not always an easy way out, is there? > > > >Toni > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2002 Report Share Posted November 30, 2002 Hi , Thanks for sharing your dream too. I had a younger friend who had a dream a few years back, not triggered by the kind of heart-stopping external events you describe, but one in which her 5 year old nephew (whom she loves dearly - she hasn't any children of her own yet, so he's the closest thing to her own child) more or less spontaneously combusted before her eyes. She was extremely shaken by it, naturally, and terrified that something terrible was going to happen to him... which I'm glad to say, didn't. But she was at a point in her life where she was making a lot of choices, about career, continued education, and getting a lot of conflict from some of her immediate family because the person she was - and wanted to become - didn't go along with the 'role' they seemed to feel she should play. In that instance, I think the dream-child was another case of a message that it was time to 'put away childish things' - and we're all children on some level, no matter our ages - and move beyond her family's limited expectations. To really start to 'grow up' as a person, and make her own choices and damn the torpedoes, lol. Not that such things are ever easy, but sometimes they are very necessary and it can take a really drastic push from the unconscious to get that point across. I would add, though, that if the sick or dying figure is a person you know in real waking life, it is much more complicated to separate feelings for the real person from the dream image. And in that case, it is always possible that there is something going on with that particular person's health and well-being - not necessarily physically, as the bodily illness of the dream can be purely symbolic even in that case - that the unconscious has picked up on and is trying to communicate. Or it can be that the real person has come to represent something meaningful to you, and it's a quality or force that you need to pay more attention to in your own growth as a person. Always complicated, when that sort of thing happens. I'm having a lot of dreams lately in which my real father and mother figure prominently, and sorting out what the dreams have to do with the waking relationships, and what they have to do with me relating to my own 'inner' mother and father... very difficult sometimes. But I think the two tend to go hand in hand, and dreams can operate on so many different levels. It's a subject of endless fascination. But that's why we're here, right? Kione Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2002 Report Share Posted November 30, 2002 Kione, , Toni -- I love this sharing of dreams it feels very grounded in who the person really is -- so I'm getting to know the women behind the new voices that are coming forward to be heard around our fire. Kione you wrote: > I would add, though, that if the sick or dying figure is a person you > know in real waking life, it is much more complicated to separate > feelings for the real person from the dream image. And in that case, it > is always possible that there is something going on with that particular > person's health and well-being - not necessarily physically, as the > bodily illness of the dream can be purely symbolic even in that case - > that the unconscious has picked up on and is trying to communicate I can attest to this. On the night before my mother had her fatal stroke, I dreamed that my mother's body was coming out of my body. Her body was quite neglected and very sick so I covered her and loved her as she left my body. This dream not only coincided with her actual passing but with the very deep bodywork I am presently doing that was at a stage where she was dying to me, symbolically. It's deep, powerful work this dying to new growth and rebirth. I am grateful to be amongst other courageous women. in the dance, Frances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2002 Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 Hi, Well, yesterday I regretted never being important enough to get " big' dreams of world import. Last night I had my addition to everyone else's unconscious, not big, but not personal. It seemed in a way '1984 " all over again. Though the people being " carted off " to work details and whatever else sinister were all dressed collegiate, ivy league style clothes and didn't seem too perturbed at being chosen. I watched, and then I was selected. I insisted on leaving a note telling my family that I was gone (obviously) and not to worry. My captors were not happy about that, but let me do it. Then I was carted (literally) off to a new location onto a double cell like room. The front had really sexy (Victory Secret) type clothes underwear I was supposed to wear. ( I must have been a lot younger and skinnier in their eyes than in today's reality. Anyway there was another room behind this very small one. It had a cot and all sorts of medical equipment in it. typical machines and tubes etc. I thought to myself, I guess they are going to do away with me when they are finished. I didn't seem very perturbed. The atmosphere in the whole dream was gray, dismal but not frightening. I seem to accept whatever was to come. Now why I had this weird dream I have no idea of. I just was relieved to wake up. But unlike my former (years ago) nightmares, I did not wake up afraid or screaming or even upset. I still have no idea what it portends or what my message is from the unconscious. I guess I will have to let it sit a while. No bright ideas have come to me. This is my first dream in a long time which doesn't " seem " personal, since the whole society was involved in being captives, or willing servants...slaves? No uproar no fighting back by anyone. Sort of semi automaton people. (not me, tho') although I didn't seem emotionally involved in any on it. I must say it was totally unlike anydream experience I can ever remember having. My dreams are usually so mundane. Oh well...just thought I would mention it. Toni To: <JUNG-FIRE > Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 9:15 PM Subject: Re: Dreams od sickness > Kione, , Toni -- I love this sharing of dreams it feels very grounded in > who the person really is -- so I'm getting to know the women behind the new > voices that are coming forward to be heard around our fire. > > Kione you wrote: > > I would add, though, that if the sick or dying figure is a person you > > know in real waking life, it is much more complicated to separate > > feelings for the real person from the dream image. And in that case, it > > is always possible that there is something going on with that particular > > person's health and well-being - not necessarily physically, as the > > bodily illness of the dream can be purely symbolic even in that case - > > that the unconscious has picked up on and is trying to communicate > > I can attest to this. On the night before my mother had her fatal stroke, I > dreamed that my mother's body was coming out of my body. Her body was quite > neglected and very sick so I covered her and loved her as she left my body. > This dream not only coincided with her actual passing but with the very deep > bodywork I am presently doing that was at a stage where she was dying to me, > symbolically. It's deep, powerful work this dying to new growth and > rebirth. I am grateful to be amongst other courageous women. > > in the dance, > > Frances > > > " Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby beings may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering. " > > H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2002 Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 The first thing that strikes me is the idea of your acceptance of the situation. But you make it clear that even though you don't fight back, or seem upset, you don't see yourself as part and parcel of this society's general psychological atmosphere... in it, certainly, but not a " semi-automaton " like the rest of the inhabitants seem to be. I'm getting the thought of, for whatever reason, the Indian idea of " maya " and the sense of all of our external reality being illusion, play, but even when we reach the point of enlightenment of knowing that, we are still in it, and must move and live and " play " along with the illusion. In that sense one lives in two worlds, " joyfully participating " in the illusion of this one - " maya " - with acceptance, but still knowing that it's not the be-all and end-all. Which contributes to the ability to achieve such acceptance, I think. It almost feels to me that in this dream, you're in that place (psychologically): all this stuff that sounds like horrible totalitarian crap is going down, but hey, whatever. The world's a mess (isn't it always?), but hey, whatever. It's not that you like it, necessarily, but you don't seem perturbed by it on the deepest level. Whatever's going to happen, will happen, and you're very conscious of the probable outcome but it doesn't seem to bother you too much, for yourself. Although you do insist on leaving a note for your family, which suggests to me that it is really more an acceptance, than a total emotional dissociation. You're still concerned about others, the compassion and sense of responsibility to what matters in this world (and those who are left behind in it) is still there. But you've accepted your own fate. Just my random thoughts. Could be way off base, but these are my first impressions. Kione > Re: Dreams od sickness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2002 Report Share Posted December 2, 2002 Dear Kione, Thank you so much for tackling this weird dream of mine.I think what you said sounds good as far as interpretation is concerned. This is the first time I think I have ever mentioned my own dream in particular instead of dreams as a subject. I decided to reread the many books I have on dreams and see if I get any additional insight. Thanks again, Toni Re: Dreams od sickness > > > > " Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby beings may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and suffering. " > > H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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