Re: Question about Synthroid vs. Armour with Hashimoto's

[Guest guest]

Hi vicky-

I'm dying to know that answer too!

E (Ellen in Missouri)

[Guest guest]

Hi there, Vicki -- I've heard that theory too -- that Armour is more

likely to be attacked by antibodies than the synthetics because it is

natural. It's just a theory. Although it's natural, Armour is from a

pig, so I'm not sure your antibodies would recognize it as thyroid as

it does your own.

You may also hear that Armour has a higher ratio of T3 to T4 than what

is in our bodies naturally, which is true. Still, some people seem to

do better this way. You should also be aware that many docs have been

biased away from Armour, as it's not the latest and greatest

pharmaceutical (for which they often receive kick-backs).

I don't have anything " scientific " to show that Hashis patients are as

likely to do well on Armour as the synthetics, just the stories of

folks here. Shomon, a high-profile thyroid advocate with Hashis,

takes Armour:

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/medicinecabinet.htm

I take a combo of Armour and Levoxyl myself -- Armour seems to help

with my energy more than Cytomel. This is just me -- your best bet is

a doc who is open to trying different things.

>

> I was just diagnosed with Hashimoto's as this is the first doc to check

> my anti-bodies and they were high. Great. Was told I was hypo in the

> past and was on synthroid and cytomel for about a year. Did OK with

> them at the time. I moved and prescription ran out, so time to find

> this new doc. With this new doc I asked for Armour and was told that in

> no way could I take it as the anti-bodies will attack the Armour as

> well and the only option that I have is synthroid, as it is synthetic

> and won't be attacked. (Sounds plausible...)

> Yet, I see here that many are taking Armour, having Hashi and doing

> very well with it. Hmmm.

> Does anyone have anything scientific to back up the fact that Armour

> works with a Hashimoto patient just as well, if not better? I would

> like to present something to the doc if possible.

>

> Thanks for the help. Vicki

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicki,

There are articles about using more than synthetic T4 for treatment.

If that is what you are looking for, let me know as I have several

somewhere on my computer. The doc may have just said that because he

doesn't have a " real " reason not to try you on Armour. You may have

to look for another doc to get treated properly.

here is something to absorb in our Hashi brains..

Not sure if this will be of any help, I am still pondering it

myself... but my doc explained Hashi's this way.

Antibodies, doesn't matter which ones, do NOT damage the Thyroid in

Hashimoto's. Hashi's is caused by lymphocytes that are slowly

destroying thyroid function.

Hashi's is caused by various killer lymphocytes -Cytokines,

Killer T-Cells, etc. Antibody tests such as TPO and TG antibodies

are used to normally diagnose Hashi's -they only tell that

inflammation is in the Thyroid gland. Otherwise, a biopsy would have

to be used to see if Lymphocytes are in the gland.

To further explain the anti-thyroid antibodies, antibodies don't

damage the Thyroid or cells themselves, they are just there to

restrain the gland until killer lymphocytes attack and kill it. His

example was someone holding a person down and against their will, not

hurting them just restraining them causing them to get angry -like

the AB's cause inflammation. Then the real bad guy comes in and

beats, attacks and maybe even kills the person, like the lymphocytes

attack the Thyroid cells. The killer lymphocytes can only attack

when the inflammation is there, as the bad guy can only attack if

someone else holds the victim.

I always thought Hashi's meant that the AB's demise the thyroid.

It's only autoimmune inflammation, not antibody destruction. I hope

that is clearer than mud.

If someone has some evidence to prove this wrong, please post it as I

didn't and still don't have a great knack for biology. But, he took

the time to explain it and it makes sense -kinda sorta... All the

other docs just said if you have AB's, you have Hashi's and your

gland will eventually be destroyed, leading me to believe it was the

AB's that did the destroying... I am sure many others think this way

too.

As for the Armour, being attacked by antibodies -that just simply

isn't possible if the above is true -The antibodies are just setting

there. It doesn't make sense that the destroyers, lymphocytes would

be able to distinguish between the hormones; they just destroy,

period.

I do know that for me personally, I do feel so much better on Armour

than I ever felt on the synthetics and I have used every brand -

Synthroid, Levoxyl, Levothroid and Unithroid plus some Levothyroxine

genetics or on the T4 synthetics and Cytomel. I do have conversion

issues, which can complicate things.

HTH,

BJ

> >

> > I was just diagnosed with Hashimoto's as this is the first doc to

check

> > my anti-bodies and they were high. Great. Was told I was hypo in

the

> > past and was on synthroid and cytomel for about a year. Did OK

with

> > them at the time. I moved and prescription ran out, so time to

find

> > this new doc. With this new doc I asked for Armour and was told

that in

> > no way could I take it as the anti-bodies will attack the Armour

as

> > well and the only option that I have is synthroid, as it is

synthetic

> > and won't be attacked. (Sounds plausible...)

> > Yet, I see here that many are taking Armour, having Hashi and

doing

> > very well with it. Hmmm.

> > Does anyone have anything scientific to back up the fact that

Armour

> > works with a Hashimoto patient just as well, if not better? I

would

> > like to present something to the doc if possible.

> >

> > Thanks for the help. Vicki

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I am on Armour but seem to feel better adding some t4. would love the articles.....

Re: Question about Synthroid vs. Armour with Hashimoto's

Hi Vicki,There are articles about using more than synthetic T4 for treatment. If that is what you are looking for, let me know as I have several somewhere on my computer. The doc may have just said that because he doesn't have a "real" reason not to try you on Armour. You may have to look for another doc to get treated properly. here is something to absorb in our Hashi brains..Not sure if this will be of any help, I am still pondering it myself... but my doc explained Hashi's this way. Antibodies, doesn't matter which ones, do NOT damage the Thyroid in Hashimoto's. Hashi's is caused by lymphocytes that are slowly destroying thyroid function. Hashi's is caused by various killer lymphocytes -Cytokines, Killer T-Cells, etc. Antibody tests such as TPO and TG antibodies are used to normally diagnose Hashi's -they only tell that inflammation is in the Thyroid gland. Otherwise, a biopsy would have to be used to see if Lymphocytes are in the gland. To further explain the anti-thyroid antibodies, antibodies don't damage the Thyroid or cells themselves, they are just there to restrain the gland until killer lymphocytes attack and kill it. His example was someone holding a person down and against their will, not hurting them just restraining them causing them to get angry -like the AB's cause inflammation. Then the real bad guy comes in and beats, attacks and maybe even kills the person, like the lymphocytes attack the Thyroid cells. The killer lymphocytes can only attack when the inflammation is there, as the bad guy can only attack if someone else holds the victim. I always thought Hashi's meant that the AB's demise the thyroid. It's only autoimmune inflammation, not antibody destruction. I hope that is clearer than mud.If someone has some evidence to prove this wrong, please post it as I didn't and still don't have a great knack for biology. But, he took the time to explain it and it makes sense -kinda sorta... All the other docs just said if you have AB's, you have Hashi's and your gland will eventually be destroyed, leading me to believe it was the AB's that did the destroying... I am sure many others think this way too.As for the Armour, being attacked by antibodies -that just simply isn't possible if the above is true -The antibodies are just setting there. It doesn't make sense that the destroyers, lymphocytes would be able to distinguish between the hormones; they just destroy, period.I do know that for me personally, I do feel so much better on Armour than I ever felt on the synthetics and I have used every brand -Synthroid, Levoxyl, Levothroid and Unithroid plus some Levothyroxine genetics or on the T4 synthetics and Cytomel. I do have conversion issues, which can complicate things.HTH,BJ> >> > I was just diagnosed with Hashimoto's as this is the first doc to check > > my anti-bodies and they were high. Great. Was told I was hypo in the > > past and was on synthroid and cytomel for about a year. Did OK with > > them at the time. I moved and prescription ran out, so time to find > > this new doc. With this new doc I asked for Armour and was told that in > > no way could I take it as the anti-bodies will attack the Armour as > > well and the only option that I have is synthroid, as it is synthetic > > and won't be attacked. (Sounds plausible...)> > Yet, I see here that many are taking Armour, having Hashi and doing > > very well with it. Hmmm. > > Does anyone have anything scientific to back up the fact that Armour > > works with a Hashimoto patient just as well, if not better? I would > > like to present something to the doc if possible.> > > > Thanks for the help. Vicki> >>

[Guest guest]

I was on synthroid for 15 years......Unithroid for 10, then switched to Armour. I did not realize that the Armour they were giving me was "generic"......so it was like taking NOTHING. Well I finally found a pharmacist who realized it and filled it with REAL Armour.....I am finding that the dose is WAY too high at 4 grains, I feel good but very jittery at the moment. Been on Armour for over a year now, don't feel any worse at all. Can't say I feel much better, but then again it was like I was taking a sugar pill for the past 10 months so who knows........will keep you posted. Amybeckyjov wrote: Hi Vicki,There are articles about using more than synthetic T4 for treatment. If that is what you are looking for, let me know as I have several somewhere on my computer. The doc may have just said that because he doesn't have a "real" reason not to try you on Armour. You may have to look for another doc to get treated properly. here is something to absorb in our Hashi brains..Not sure if this will be of any help, I am still pondering it myself... but my doc explained Hashi's this way. Antibodies, doesn't matter which ones, do NOT damage the Thyroid in Hashimoto's. Hashi's is caused by lymphocytes that are slowly destroying thyroid function. Hashi's is caused by various killer lymphocytes -Cytokines, Killer T-Cells,

etc. Antibody tests such as TPO and TG antibodies are used to normally diagnose Hashi's -they only tell that inflammation is in the Thyroid gland. Otherwise, a biopsy would have to be used to see if Lymphocytes are in the gland. To further explain the anti-thyroid antibodies, antibodies don't damage the Thyroid or cells themselves, they are just there to restrain the gland until killer lymphocytes attack and kill it. His example was someone holding a person down and against their will, not hurting them just restraining them causing them to get angry -like the AB's cause inflammation. Then the real bad guy comes in and beats, attacks and maybe even kills the person, like the lymphocytes attack the Thyroid cells. The killer lymphocytes can only attack when the inflammation is there, as the bad guy can only attack if someone else holds the victim. I always thought Hashi's meant that the AB's demise the thyroid.

It's only autoimmune inflammation, not antibody destruction. I hope that is clearer than mud.If someone has some evidence to prove this wrong, please post it as I didn't and still don't have a great knack for biology. But, he took the time to explain it and it makes sense -kinda sorta... All the other docs just said if you have AB's, you have Hashi's and your gland will eventually be destroyed, leading me to believe it was the AB's that did the destroying... I am sure many others think this way too.As for the Armour, being attacked by antibodies -that just simply isn't possible if the above is true -The antibodies are just setting there. It doesn't make sense that the destroyers, lymphocytes would be able to distinguish between the hormones; they just destroy, period.I do know that for me personally, I do feel so much better on Armour than I ever felt on the synthetics and I have used every

brand -Synthroid, Levoxyl, Levothroid and Unithroid plus some Levothyroxine genetics or on the T4 synthetics and Cytomel. I do have conversion issues, which can complicate things.HTH,BJ> >> > I was just

diagnosed with Hashimoto's as this is the first doc to check > > my anti-bodies and they were high. Great. Was told I was hypo in the > > past and was on synthroid and cytomel for about a year. Did OK with > > them at the time. I moved and prescription ran out, so time to find > > this new doc. With this new doc I asked for Armour and was told that in > > no way could I take it as the anti-bodies will attack the Armour as > > well and the only option that I have is synthroid, as it is synthetic > > and won't be attacked. (Sounds plausible...)> > Yet, I see here that many are taking Armour, having Hashi and doing > > very well with it. Hmmm. > > Does anyone have anything scientific to back up the fact that Armour > > works with a Hashimoto patient just as well, if not better? I would > > like to present

something to the doc if possible.> > > > Thanks for the help. Vicki> >>

Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the great feedback. I would be interested in the

papers if it isn't a chore to find them. Could they possibly be

posted in the " files " section here?

The lymphocyte and antibody description does make sense. I will

continue my " learning " process about this and try to gather some

evidence for the doc. If I feel OK with the snythroid, I guess it

won't matter, but if not, I will demand other options.

Thanks again for all the great help.

Vicki

> > >

> > > I was just diagnosed with Hashimoto's as this is the first doc

to

> check

> > > my anti-bodies and they were high. Great. Was told I was hypo

in

> the

> > > past and was on synthroid and cytomel for about a year. Did OK

> with

> > > them at the time. I moved and prescription ran out, so time to

> find

> > > this new doc. With this new doc I asked for Armour and was told

> that in

> > > no way could I take it as the anti-bodies will attack the

Armour

> as

> > > well and the only option that I have is synthroid, as it is

> synthetic

> > > and won't be attacked. (Sounds plausible...)

> > > Yet, I see here that many are taking Armour, having Hashi and

> doing

> > > very well with it. Hmmm.

> > > Does anyone have anything scientific to back up the fact that

> Armour

> > > works with a Hashimoto patient just as well, if not better? I

> would

> > > like to present something to the doc if possible.

> > >

> > > Thanks for the help. Vicki

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that info., BJ! If you want to post any articles in our

Links or Files section, feel free -- or send to me and I will.

>

> Hi Vicki,

>

> There are articles about using more than synthetic T4 for treatment.

> If that is what you are looking for, let me know as I have several

> somewhere on my computer. The doc may have just said that because he

>

[Guest guest]

I was told thyroid medication was used as a diet drug in the past and wonder if I really had a thyroid problem in my teens or was given the drug to lose weight. The only time I was underwent the anti body and other tests were last year. And these tests have not been redone since.

Was anyone given Armour or another thyroid medication to lose weight?

Nan

Was told I was hypo in the past and was on synthroid and cytomel for about a year

[Guest guest]

Hi, I have read where you shouldn't use thyroid meds to loose weight. Just fyi. Joan sincerely, Joan nyc/phx.az. Adoptee/Parents/relatives: Please go to the following websites: Arizona and N.Y. searchers: Http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arizonasearch_support http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nyadoptees http://www.premiertruckaccessories.com/

Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

Thanks BJ for that explaination. It is very clear and makes perfect

sense. I wish someone had explained that to me already.

I've been really worried about my anti-bodies and couldn't believe

that the dr didn't seem to think they were important at all. Now it

makes a bit more sense.

Thanks Lucy X