Re: finally some excellent bread :-)

June 29, 2001

Since there are a couple of book recommendations in here, I will

mention a couple more.

The Bread Builders by Dan Wing and Alan . This is an

extraordinary book about the details of bread baking. It will help

clarify a LOT of things for you, once you're already baking bread.

The Village Baker by Joe Ortiz. An excellent description of certain

kinds of baking processes. The Italian pane francesa (French Bread)

baguette recipe translates WONDERFULLY to whole grain.

And you should have the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book, which is the only

book that I know of that is solely devoted to whole grain breads.

Many things in there are very helpful for taking non-whole-grain

recipes and converting them. And a great " troubleshooting " chapter.

Soren

" Rochester " <Rochester@...> writes:

> I had sent most of this info to some other friends of mine, and decided to go

> ahead and post it here too, so those of you on lds-uc can just ignore this,

it's

> mostly a repeat.

>

> A few months ago we were talking about bread here on this list, and I just

> couldn't let go of the idea that it should indeed be possible to have good,

> healthy bread available for us. So I started researching, and researching and

> researching some more. And then I started cooking.

>

> I am so beyond excited! We are eating EXCELLENT bread here, as well as every

bread

> related product you could possibly think of (I just pulled some yummy biscuits

out

> of the oven, and the cinnamon bread is on its way in).

>

> All of this is done using a sourdough starter. BUT, I now know that a properly

> cared for sourdough is NOT sour!!!!! This bread is so incredibly good, and my

kids

> are gobbling it up like there is no tomorrow. I have an autistic child, and if

she

> gets even a crumb of gluten, we have hell to pay for at least a week, but she

is

> eating this bread with NO negative reactions what-so-ever, and in fact, is

> making a lot of progress. We have not changed ANYTHING else with , and

since

> starting all of this sourdough stuff, the child is growing mentally in literal

> leaps and bounds. A few days ago, (who is TOTALLY non-verbal) was

playing

> APPROPRIATELY with the blocks from my 3 yr old's birthday party. She was

stacking

> them, and counting to 10 clear as a bell as she stacked them. When they would

> fall, she would begin stacking them again, and start counting at one again.

Now,

> those of you who do not know probably have no clue how big this is, but

let

> me just tell you, it is HUGE!!!!!! I KNOW it is because her body is being fed

and

> actually ABSORBING nutrients it never has before.

>

> Anyway, this will be long, and I apologize in advance, but I wanted to share

some

> of the health info I have found about these wonderful breads, and some recipes

> too.

>

> Enjoy! :-)

>

> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

>

> Simple & Healthier Breadmaking

>

> By Jacques de Langre

>

> The nutritional and better absorption/assimilation of whole grain bread made

with

> natural starter (sourdough) leavener instead of commercial yeast are numerous

and

> of great importance to the health-seeker.

>

> In many technical and medical writings, the two techniques of baking: natural

> sourdough leaven and commercial bakers yeast are often confounded and

> contradicted.

>

> It is the aim of this paper to clear up this confusion.

>

> All of the benefits of natural starter and all of the clearly detrimental

effects

> of commercial yeasted bread are thoroughly exposed and discussed in the

> forthcoming 1981 edition of " Breads Biological Transmutations " . Many of these

> findings are quite recent and supported by scientific evidence and clinical

> studies.

>

> Baking By Principle.

>

> The aim of breadbaking is to transform the various nutrients obtained from

> fresh-milled whole grain flour in a way that best facilitates their

absorption. To

> do this effectively, life's laws must be respected through all of the

> transformation of matter that affect our nutrition. It is important for the

bread

> to retain the vital and dynamic qualities that animate the grain throughout

its

> life: Germination, growth and maturity.

>

> Starter Leaven-A Definition.

>

> True starter leaven is obtained from the wild or spontaneous ferments that

exist

> in the air. This micro-macro-flora consists of a multitude of micro-organisms

in

> symbiosis - a mutually beneficial association.

>

> False Leaven.

>

> In attempts to make sourdough bread - for its characteristic taste and to

please

> customers who request natural leavened bread, -professional bakers and bread

> process researchers have often begun a primary starter with minimal amount of

> commercial yeast to get it going, or simply by holding back a certain quantity

of

> yeasted sourdough from the previous days baking. This, in no way, duplicates

the

> health benefits of true benefits of true natural sourdough leaven and is

actually

> injurious to health is the same way yeasted bread is.

>

> Easy Method for First Starter.

>

> Making a true leaven First Starter is much easier and failproof than most

> beginners and long-time yeast bakers imagine. The myths that surround

starter-type

> breadmaking fall apart when one bakes by principle.

>

> RULES:

>

> 1.Use only fresh ground flour from organic sources.

>

> 2. Grind the flour fairly coarse and only on natural stones.

>

> 3. Milling of the coarse flour should be controlled so that the temperature

within

> the flour does not rise above 96 degrees F. (To preserve the heat-sensitive

> delicate enzymes).

>

> 4. Use untreated well or spring water. Fluoride, chlorine, ionized or

distilled

> will not promote ferments.

>

> 5. Mix 1 cup of cold water to 1/2 cup of fresh coarse ground flour. Do not add

> salt, oil or least of all: yeast. Knead the mixture until a smooth consistency

> develops.

>

> 6. Place the resulting mixture in a clean (scalded) wooden bowl or earthenware

> crock covered loosely with a clean cotton cloth in an area that is well

venhilated

> but free of draft, cool and dark but not not refridgerated unless inside

building

> temperature is above 90 F. Stir mixture with with a scalded spatula every day

for

> three days.

>

> 7. After three days of cool storage, starter will have acquired a beer-like

> fragrance, display some bubbles or if dry will show superficial fine cracks.

>

> 8. From this point on, the starter may be kept in an airtight closed jar and

> refridgerated. It no longer requires air in order to live. The starter does

> require periodic feeding with fresh flour or usuage in bread along with

refreshing

> or renewing.

>

> Deep Freeze:

>

> For inactive storage periods up to 3 or 4 weeks, it is possible to store the

> starter in a deep freeze. In any prolonged periods of inactivity, the only

danger

> is that the starter will acquire an excess of acidity or that the acid will

turn

> to acetic acid instead of lactic acid. (Lactic acid is friendly to our

organism,

> acetic is not.)

>

> Thawing out and Use of Deep Frozen Starter.

>

> It is important to completely thaw out out the starter before use in bread and

to

> avoid rushing the process. Under no circumstance should hot water be used to

thaw

> it out as this would destroy the enzymes and kill the starter action. Be sure

to

> feed and remix the starter every time it is thawed out.

>

> Starter Functions.

>

> Definition:

>

> A starter is a bread leavening agent that contains a wide spectrum of wild

> biological ferments, mold and digestive enzymes, all contributing to the

health of

> the intestinal flora.

>

> Primary Function:

>

> The starter serves to change the raw elements of wheat and other cereal grains

> into ready nutrients, more easily absorbed by the body.

>

> Auxilary Role:

>

> The combined action of the wild ferments and enzymes maintained within the

starter

> added to the enzymes existing in the freshly ground whole flour are creating

heat

> and energy that will aerate and leaven the bread harmoniously.

>

> Bonus Benefits:

>

> Among the multitude of elements present within the starter-leavened bread,

some

> combine to insure the breads keeping qualities while others serve to improve

its

> taste during the aging. (While yeated bread loses its taste quite rapidly

after

> baking and actually becomes toxic*, the natural leavened bread increases its

> healing powers as well as its flavor and taste.)

>

> *For a complete discussion of this important difference, the reader is invited

to

> consult " Breads Biological Transmutations " published by Happiness Press 14351

> Wyclif, P.O.Box DD, Magalia, CA 95954.

>

> Making Starter Bread.

>

> Dissolve 2 cups of the starter in 1 cup of cold spring water, add 2 to 3 cups

of

> fine ground flour and mix until a smooth consistancy is obtained. Store this

> batter for 12 hours in a wood or earthenware at a low temperature (68degrees

F. -

> 16 to 18 degrees C.). Cover with a clean cotton cloth and keep away from

> drafts. The above is called the Chef, it is an intermediary step between the

> starter and the final bread dough.

>

> Note that it contains no salt and no oil or other additives. For smaller

> quantities, the proportions can be halved. To 1 lb. Of Chef, add 1 to 2

quarters

> of water and 4 to 5 pounds of fresh ground flour (Fine Ground).

>

> Begin to knead without salt. Weigh the amount of dough being formed and add 1

per

> cent of that weight in unrefined salt, either in crystals or fine powder.

>

> Continue to knead for 15 to 20 minutes so as to completely dissolve and absorb

the

> salt. Allow the dough to rest one half hour. Separate the dough into loaf-size

> pieces. Keep in mind that the bread pans should only be 1/2 - 2/3 full.

>

> Lightly oil the pans using either corn or sesame oil. Roll the dough balls in

> flour, mold them into the pans and cover with a clean cotton cloth. Place the

> covered bread pans in a moist area at a temperature of 75 to 80 F until they

> double in size (3 to 6 hours).

>

> Baking:

>

> The purpose of the heat of baking is to transform the starches into dextrin. A

> sufficiency of heat must be available to accomplish this purpose fairly

rapidly

> without scorching or burning the bread loaves.

>

> Preheat the Oven to 400 degrees F. Remove the cotton covers make sure that the

> room in which the oven is located is free from drafts or cold air. Place the

bread

> pans without delay in the center of the oven and close the door tightly and

> quickly. After 15 minutes, lower the temperature to 325 F. After hour, open

the

> door and check the color of the crust. At this time it should be possible to

> quickly remove the the bread from their pans and place them alone on the wire

> racks for better browning. (If they should stick, disregard this and oil &

flour

> them better the next batch around.)

>

> Cooling:

>

> When the bread is correctly baked, it should have an even color on all

surfaces,

> underside as well as on top.

>

> The shade of brown is near fresh-sawed redwood. This bread will keep without

> refridgeration up to one month. But to accomplish this quality, the bread must

be

> cooled in an energetic draft and all surfaces exposed to the air. This is best

> done on a wooden rack with the loaves standing on edge. When completely

cooled,

> wrap in kraft brown paper or in white paper sacks. Do not use plastic bags as

the

> bread must breathe. If mold (green spots) develop during storage, these are

the

> children of the bread and consist of natural penicillin, and will disappear

when

> bread is placed in a warm oven for a few minutes.

>

> Question:

>

> Why does the Natural Leaven Bread taste Sour?

>

> Answer:

>

> The action of the ferments of life bring the naturally leavened bread within

the

> optimal biological zone, which is slightly acid.

>

> If the bread has acquired a decidedly strong acid taste, it contains acetic

> acid. This often happens in commercial sourdough breads and is detrimental to

the

> health. The mild sourness, however, belongs to the beneficial lactic acid and

is

> characteristic of the true leaven bread. This taste stabilizes itself after a

few

> hours and thus should not be thought of as stale bread too old for consuming.

>

> Question:

>

> Bran rich bread is known to deconstipate immediately. Why does natural leaven

> bread appear at first not to effect the same quick deconstipating action?

>

> Answer:

>

> Much of the popularity of whole grain bread is due to its roughage and its

power

> to quickly scour the colon. When the whole grain bread is of the yeasted

variety,

> most of this roughage -being undigested by fermentation- is still in its

abrasive

> state and stimulates elimination by mechanical scouring action. The very

> abrasiveness which has temporarily relieved the problem soon creates another

one:

> inflamation of the colon. True starter leavened bread owes its permanent

> regulating action to the biological action of its ferments that alone possess

the

> power to regenerate the intestinal flora. These same ferments also restore the

> peristatic action and the flexibility of the colon. While this cure is not as

> spetacular as the non-predigested high-roughage diet, it has a much more

lasting

> and beneficial biological quality.

>

> Question:

>

> Why does Naturally Leavened Bread appear not to contain any bran particles and

yet

> retains a dark brown color within the inside crumb as well as the crust?

>

> Answer:

>

> The micro-organisms of the natural leaven have in effect digested the bran

flakes

> to such a degree that they totally disappear. All the nutrients of the bran

coats

> have been retained, however, and this accounts for the dark coloring inside

the

> loaf. This color is the evidence of the use of natural leaven: that of

creating a

> physiochemical tranformation of the elements within the dough, in order to

obtain

> a predigestation of the nutrients. This results in a total assimilation of

these

> nutrients by the human organism.

>

> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

>

> Yeast Free Bread...Real Food For Health

>

> By Lynn Gordon

>

> What are yeasts? Willard Rippon, PH.D., said in his book Medical

Mycology:

> " Yeasts (including Candida albicans) are mild mannered creatures incapable of

> producing infection in a healthy individual. They only cause trouble in

persons

> with weakened defenses.. ..the severity of the disease will depend on how weak

a

> persons resistance is, rather than any disease-producing properties exhibited

by

> the fungus....because of its rapid ability to make itself at home in mucous

> membranes (the medical term is colonize) and take advantage of many types of

host

> alterations, the clinical manifestations of candida infection are exceedingly

> variable....Candida albicans accounts for the vast majority of diseases caused

by

> the yeast. " . Crook ,M.D., defines what yeast is in his book The Yeast

> Connection:

>

> " Yeasts are single cell fungi which belong to the vegetable kingdom. And like

> their cousins the molds, they live all around you. And one family of yeasts,

> Candida albicans, normally lives in your body and more especially in your

> intestines and other parts of your digestive tract. "

>

> Yeast germs normally lives on the mucous membranes, along with billions of

> friendly germs. The dark recesses of the digestive tract and the vaginas are

the

> perfect environment for yeasts. Unfriendly bacteria, allergens, and viruses

also

> find their way into these and other membrane-lined passageways, including the

> respiratory tract. However, when the immune system is strong, these unfriendly

> bacteria arent able to penetrate into the deeper tissues or blood stream. When

the

> system is weak and vulnerable, the opposite occurs thus creating illness.

>

> When yeasts multiply in the body, the put out toxins which circulate through

the

> system causing hundreds of symptoms which often times lead to serious

> illness. When the yeast multiplication occurs, this weakens the immune

> system. Other factors such as nutrition deficiencies caused by poor diet

and/or

> inability of the body to absorb essential amino acids, essential fatty acids,

> complex carbohydrates, vitamin minerals also weaken the immune system.

>

> Common symptoms of a weak immune system are fatigue, depression, headaches,

and

> the development of yeast or fungus infections on the nails, skin, or

> vagina. Allergies and becoming more susceptible to infections such as those of

> nose, sinus, ear, throat, bronchial tubes, and bladder are also common

symptoms.

>

> Twentieth century diets which are rich in sugar, bakers yeast, and birth

control

> pills encourage yeast growth. Naturally leavened bread, commonly referred to

as

> yeast-free bread, is easily assimilated by the body and does not promote yeast

> growth.

>

> Yeast-free breads are growing in popularity due to the fact that they are

being

> recommended by health care professionals to their patients that have

> yeast-connected health problems as described previously.

>

> Bread is The Staff of Life, our daily sustenance. What are the characteristics

of

> this alternative yeast-free bread? Natural, traditional bread must be leavened

in

> a natural traditional way. Bakers yeast is not a natural and traditional

leavening

> as is generally believed today. The natural leavening process requires a long

> fermentation time. By mixing wheat and water to make a dough, and letting this

> dough rest at least twelve to twenty-four hours in a temperature controlled

> environment, the dough develops from the exposure to all the microorganisms in

the

> air.

>

> Jacques de Langre, director of the Grain and Salt Society stated that The

natural

> leavening agents provide a better strain of bacteria to the human system than

the

> Lactobacillus acidolphilus which is derived from cows milk. These friendly

> bacteria help control candida. On the other hand, bakers yeast is a

pro-candida

> organism. Why not ignore the leavening altogether?

>

> There are many good qualities of unleavened bread, but there is a big catch-22

> factor. Wheat, the primal grain, contain phytic acid or phytin- a natural

> ingredient that is associated with poor digestion, anemia, and nervous

disorders

> disorders to name a few. The natural group of leavening microbes

(microorganisms

> in the air) in naturally leavened/yeast-free breads eliminate 100% of the

phytin;

> breads baked with bakers yeast contain 90% of the harmful acid.

>

> Unleavened bread leaves even more phytin on hand for the unsuspecting

> eater. Natural leavening is a multi-faceted phenomenon. When the multiple

forms of

> airborne microbial life contact the warm, moist environment of kneaded dough,

> processes of fermentation are initiated.

>

> Complex carbohydrate molecules are broken down into simple sugars. When these

> complex carbohydrates are broken down they become very digestible and can be

> easily assimilated and properly eliminated by the body.

>

> The yeast-free variety of bread is also more nutritious. The long proofing

time

> breaks down the bran of the grain, releasing valuable minerals which are

dissolved

> in the rich dough, hence producing a healthful and tasty bread.

>

> 150 years ago, microbiological science isolated and cultured one particular

yeast,

> the special Saccharamyces cerevisae, commonly known as bakers yeast. It was

> discovered that this tiny character caused a rapid and uniform raising of the

> dough, which was therefore much more predictable and controllable than the

natural

> leaven method. This bacteria stimulated unnatural growth. The new cultured

yeast

> made it possible to to raise a new loaf in 1 hour compared to the 24 hour

process

> the naturally leavened yeast-fee bread required. Little did they know that

they

> were causing an unnatural imbalance in the intestinal flora of all who

consumed

> their daily bread.

>

> The rising popularity of naturally leavened yeast -free bread is not only for

> health reasons but for reasons of quality and taste as well. To lovers of good

> bread, there is nothing to compare with naturally leavened whole grain

> breads. Yeast free breads have a good keeping quality (1 month refrigerated)

and

> when bread is warmed it tastes as though it was just baked.

>

> For centuries man has been nourished on naturally leavened (yeast-free) bread.

In

> the search for health for ourselves and our families, let us seek out this

true

> bread - Bon Appetite!

>

> Transcribed from the Sept/Dec 1994 Mountain Ark Catalog.

>

> Lynn Gordon runs the French Meadow Bakery in Minneapolis, Minnesota

>

> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

>

> When I started this obsession, I searches for everything I could possibly find

on

> the internet. Then I got two books, _Breads from the LaBrea Bakery_ by

> Silverton and _World Sourdoughs From Antiquity_ by Ed Wood. Both of these

books

> had a lot of excellent info, but I just could NOT find recipes that used only

> whole grain flour. Even the 'whole wheat bread' recipes I found used quite a

bit

> of white flour. So I decided that I just needed to get my hands dirty and

start

> experimenting on my own. The process that has finally turned out a great (I

would

> say almost perfect) loaf of bread has been a mixture from the two books, as

well

> as some generous input from my dh, who is a professional chef and a graduate

of

> the Culinary Institute of America in New York.

>

> First of all, it is absolutely possible to create your own starter, but I

would

> seriously suggest getting some from a good one that has been going for quite a

> while. Think about it. There have been countless starters started over the

> centuries, but not all of them still exist today. The ones are still around

are

> because they are GOOD. Someone on a message board had an anology that I liked

" If

> you wanted to learn to surf, would you insist on building your own surfboard

> first? " For the record, I did grow my own starter ala instructions from

> _Nourishing Traditions_, and while the bread looked good and rose well, it was

> SOUR!!!!!! I just couldn't bring myself to make more, and let the starter die

> out. Fortunately, now I understand why it was so sour, and I believe that I

could

> grow a good starter now, but I have no interest as I already have an excellent

> one.

>

> Two good sources for starters are Sourdoughs International

>

> http://www.sourdo.com/ (the owner is Ed Wood, author of the previous book I

> mentioned).

>

> Here you will find about 10 different starters to choose from. I chose the

Russian

> Starter, as it was supposed to work well with 'heavy Russian wheats' and not

be

> very sour. This is a very fast starter (I never knew before that there are

> different speeds in starters - a fast starter consumes the nutrients in wheat

> faster, thereby requiring less time to make the bread) I REALLY like this

> starter. It is $10.50 if you order it from this company. I would also be more

than

> happy to send some of mine, but it might take longer, as I would need time to

dry

> it, get to the post office and mail it etc. But if your budget is really

tight,

> it's an option.

>

> The other source is to send a #10 self addressed stamped envelope to

>

> Oregon Trail Sourdough

> P. O. Box 321 Jefferson,

> MD 21755 USA

>

> This one is free, but it may take awhile to receive it, as they wait untill

they

> have built up a few requests before sending it out. This sourdough is one that

was

> originally offered by Carl Griffith, but he died recently, and some of his

friends

> are keeping the offer going for him. This sourdough starter came across the

Oregon

> Trail with Carl's family in 1847, and no one know's how long it had been going

> before that. I have not yet received mine yet, but all of the reports I read

about

> it were very glowing.

>

> Like I said, it is free, but they certainly won't turn down a donation ;-)

>

> Ok, once you get your starter, follow whatever directions come with it to get

it

> revived. Once it is going, most people say to feed it once a day, but

according to

> Silverton (and I found this to be very true also), this is just too long

and

> why a lot of sourdoughs are so sour. If you feed it first, you can leave a

starter

> in the refridgerator for up to 6 months before feeding again, but it will take

3

> days of feeding it 3 times a day for it to be really good and healthy before

using

> it. It only takes one day of 3 feedings to get it up to par after a week in

the

> fridge, but any longer than 2 weeks, and it will need 3 days. I have a back-up

> starter in the fridge, but I have never gone long enough between baking to

worry

> about all of this. So basically, I save 1/2 cup starter everyday from the

sponge,

> feed it with another 1/2 cup flour and water (so now it equals 1 cup), feed it

> another about 1 1/2 cups of flour and water in about 6 hours (so now it is 2

1/2

> cups), and then mix all of that with the sponge overnight, saving back 1/2 cup

> again in the morning each day and starting over.

>

> After much trial and error, I have discovered that the best method with whole

> grain flours is the sponge method. Doing it any other way had the bread

proofing

> too long before it had fermented long enough for the right acids to do their

work,

> and it didn't taste nearly as good or rise very well.

>

> I hope this is making sense. I have so much info swimming around in my head,

and

> am finding it hard to share it all without going into tons of detail.

>

> It is absolutely possible to make a really decent loaf of bread with just

flour,

> salt and water, and I would actually suggest that this be done on the first

loaf

> or two, so you can get a good feel for how the bread is supposed to behave (it

is

> a little different working with a living organism, and you really need to get

a

> feel for how it should be at each level).

>

> That said, here is my FAVORITE bread recipe. It rises really well, has a good

> crust and crumb (the part that isn't crust :-) ), and works really well for

> sandwiches. It has the characteristic 'tang' of a natural yeast bread, is

slightly

> sweet, but it ISN'T sour.

>

> Put two cups of flour into a bowl (NOT metal, it conducts too much heat. I use

> glass) and add enough water to barely get all of the flour wet when stirred,

kind

> of like a cookie dough consistency. Then dump all of the sourdough starter

into it

> and mix well. (It should all equal about 4 1/2 cups. This is the sponge. I

> generaly put this in my oven, as it is about the right temp, and draft free.

This

> needs to sit for about 12 hours, in order to build up the lactic acid

> (lacto-fermentation once again :-) ), but no more than 15 hours. With a fast

> starter like the Russian, it will have already consumed all of the nutrients

in

> the flour and be in a dormant stage, so at about 9 or 10 hours, or 2 or 3

hours

> before you want to use it, add another cup of flour to get it active again

(just

> hold back a cup of flour from the original two).

>

> After 12 hours, take 1/2 cup out and put it into a jar with another 1/2 cup of

> flour mixed with water like when starting the sponge. Mix this up real good

and

> put the lid on the jar. I screw it on enough to keep it on, but leave it loose

> enough that if the starter rises too much, it can escape the jar without

bursting

> it. I keep this on top of my freezer with a dishtowel wrapped around it, and

it

> seems to be the perfect temp (in old days, they used to keep it in the

cupboard

> above the woodstove, and goldminers used to sleep with it in their sleeping

> bags!).

>

> So now you should have 4 cups of sponge. If you used it all, it would make 2

> loaves of bread. I generally make one loaf of bread, and make something else

with

> the rest (muffins or pizza dough or banana bread or pancakes, or a million

other

> things).

>

> Put two cups of sponge in a big bowl (I use my kitchen-aid, but you can hand

mix

> and knead it too, just mix it in the bowl until it is too stiff, and then mix

and

> knead it on the counter). Melt 3 or 4 Tbs butter (I use 3, 4 makes an even

softer

> loaf) in a pan, and then add 1/2 cup cold milk, 4 Tbs honey, and 1 tsp salt.

Stir

> all of this up and make sure it is about the temp of breastmilk. Add this to

the

> sponge and mix well. Knead in flour (about 3 cups, I never measure, I just

pour it

> in until it looks like dough, soft, but not too sticky to work with). Knead

for

> about 5 minutes, and then let the dough rest, covered with a cloth, for 20

> minutes. This rest period help the texture of the dough, as well as the taste.

>

> After the 20 minute rest, knead again for about 5 minutes.

>

> I use a bread pan because my family seems to like it better, but you can free

form

> the loaf too. Form the loaf into the shape you want (I roll it out in a

rectangle,

> and then roll it up jelly roll fashion and put into the bread pan, it seems to

> make a more uniform loaf this way).

>

> The dough needs to proof now, and the time will depend on the speed of your

> starter. With the Russian starter, it generally takes about 3 hours, with

others

> it can take up to 6 or more. I boil a pan of water and then put it on the

bottom

> shelf of the oven with the bread on the top shelf. The steam and heat this

creates

> is a perfect environment (right humidity and temp) for bread to proof (a trick

my

> dh learned in school). You will know the dough is ready by the way it feels.

When

> the dough is first kneaded, it springs back when you poke it with your

> finger. When it is proofed right and the nutrients consumed by the starter, it

> will have a slightly flabby feel to it, but you should still be able to feel

> activity in the core (remember, this dough is alive, it isn't cookie dough).

When

> you touch it, it will not spring all the way back. If it feels flabby all the

way

> through, it is over-proofed, and will have no oven spring (when the bread

expands

> as as it is cooking, it is the yeast rising the dough in it's last gasp of

life),

> the loaf will possibly deflate while cooking, and it may be overly sour. If it

is

> underproofed, the dough will develop too much oven spring and the finished

loaf

> will have a ceramic-like finish rather than one well blistered with tiny

> fermentation bubbles, also an unappealing pallor, bulges or blowouts on the

sides

> or a lopsided appearance, and a tight, restricted look. If the dough feels too

> firm and if it springs back at the touch of a fingertip, it is underproofed.

>

> When the dough is ready, preheat the oven to 400* Right before you put it in,

> slash the top of the loaf (I use a straight edged razor). You don't want to go

> much deeper than 1/4 of an inch, and don't go farther than an inch from either

end

> of the loaf.

>

> When the bread is cooking, there needs to be some moisture in the oven, or the

top

> will crust over too fast and the bread will not be able to grow properly. In

> professional bakeries, they have steam injected ovens. Ther are 2 ways to

mimic

> this at home. The way I use is to boil a pan of water, load the bread in and

then

> put the pan of boiling water in the bottom of the oven. You can also use a

spray

> bottle and spray the oven right before loading the bread, and then immediately

> after, and 3 or four more times in the next 5 minutes (this way works best if

you

> are cooking the bread directly on oven tiles). Then, do NOT open the oven door

for

> the next 20 minutes, so that the steam can do its work. After 25 minutes, go

ahead

> and check the bread and see if it needs rotated, and remove the pan of water

if

> you used one. The bread will need about 15 to 20 minutes more to cook. It is

done

> when you thump the top and it sounds hollow. The crust will probably appear

pretty

> dark (I SERIOUSLY thought it was burned the first time) and hard, but it will

> soften and lighten up after sitting a while. After it comes out of the oven,

you

> will want to immediately get it onto a cooling rack, or the crust will be

steamed

> in the pan, and the crust will be too soft to do its job properly. A properly

made

> sourdough will last a LOT longer than a regular loaf of bread. The crust will

seem

> hard, but should be fairly easy to cut, and the bread inside will be a nice

> texture. The thick crust allows the bread to be sliced very thinly for

sandwiches

> etc. You do not need to wrap the bread, and in fact, it will go bad faster if

you

> do. Just stand it on end with the cut part facing down on the cutting board,

and

> the crust will protect the bread from drying out. When you warm sourdough, it

will

> taste and feel just like it was fresh baked. It is wonderful!

>

> I know that these instructions have been long, and I apologize. If I have made

it

> seem complicated, someone please smack me, because it really is NOT. For just

> about any other recipe, you follow these basic instructions, just varying the

> ingredients.

>

> For a batter bread (I will use banana bread as an example) you first make the

> basic batter, which is

>

> 2 cups sponge

>

> 2 Tbs butter

>

> 1/2 cup milk

>

> 1 tsp salt

>

> 2 Tbs sweetener (honey, sucanat etc.)

>

> approx 3 cups flour

>

> Mix everything but the flour in the same method as before (melting the butter

and

> adding the milk and other ingredients).

>

> Add in the other ingredients (for banana bread that would be 1 egg beaten - 1

cup

> mashed banana - 1/2 cup sweetener (honey, sucanat, etc.) - and 1/2 cup chopped

> nuts). After this is all mixed, you add the flour until it is the right

texture,

> approx 3 cups. Put it all into a greased pan and proof until the dough rises

1/2

> inch above the edge of the pan. Preheat oven to 350 and bake for 45 minutes

(no

> need for steam or slashing).

>

> Once you've got the basic method down, you can make just about anything. The

other

> night I made navajo tacos (YUM!) using the basic bread dough. I divided the

dough

> into little balls, and let it rise for about 3 hours, Then I rolled them into

thin

> circles, and fried them. They ended up puffing a bit, and were very soft and

yummy

> with all of the makings for tacos on top. My kids gobbled them up! I also made

> pizza dough the other night using the same recipe (without the honey), letting

it

> rise and then rolling it out and cooking most the way before adding the

> toppings. It was out of this world good, and I have another in my freezer for

a

> quick meal anytime I am in a pinch.

>

> I hope this helps for those who have been following _Nourishing Traditions_

and

> have desperately missed good bread like I did :-)

>

> rochester@...

> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

> Click here for the best diet and nutrition information you will ever find!

> www.westonaprice.org

> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

> " What is gained from consulting a specialist and surrendering all judgment

> is often more than outweighed by a permanent loss of one's own volition. "

> -- Gatto

> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

>

June 30, 2001

Thank you so, so, so, so MUCH!! I've been researching this

breadmaking thing like you for the past few months and was starting

to give up on making good bread (unless I wanted to try making desem

bread which sounds hard and labor intensive). I am just so glad to

hear that it's possible to make good tasting, unsour homemade

bread!! You have inspired me again to try it out!! Was it the GEM

sourdough culture that made your previous bread so sour? I was

thinking of getting their starter, but maybe I should get the one you

got instead...

Thanks a bunch!

Becky

June 30, 2001

Thank you so much for sharing the results of your adventures in learning and the resources--you've just saved me (and probably others) a ton of time and I really appreciate your generosity. Being new to many of these Native Nutrition concepts (although they feel really good and I'm trying to learn real fast) I have a question.

In Nourishing Traditions it says that all grain products should be soaked for 12-24 hours. This seems fine for the grain used in the starter and proof but then at the end when you add more flour and let it rise just 3-6 hours (depending on the starter), is that enough time to get rid of all the phytic acid and breakdown the other hard to digest stuff in that last flour you add?

Also, what kind of wheat are you using?

Thanks,

p.s. Thanks also for sharing about your daughter , that is very exciting and shows clearly the often missed connection between our basic nourishment and physical problems.

June 30, 2001

You might also consider " Carl's " .

http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends

Great flavor. Great leavening. Not too sour. Of course, you need to

realize that the recipe that Fallon gives in the book is bound to make

lousy bread. Sourness really has less to do with the starter and more

with: (1) refreshments of the starter and (2) the length, temperature

and hydration of the fermentations.

The baguette recipe that I make controls sourness by doing it in three

batches:

0. Refresh your starter with some flour and water about 8 hours

before you start.

1. take 1/4 cup starter (the chef), 1/2 cup flour and 1/4 cup water. Mix it.

Let

it sit for 5-6 hours (depending on temperature. Higher

temperature means less time). In general you want to add the

water to the starter and then add the flour. The reason is that

the bacteria and yeast lives in the water and so you are spreading

them out by adding water first.

2. Take that (the levain) and add 1/2 cup water and 1 1/2 cup flour.

mix that up and let it sit for another 5-6 hours.

3. Add 3/4 cup water. Add 2 teaspoons salt. Mix it up good. Then

add 2 cups flour. of course, you want to add the flour gradually

because the last of it you are going to add via kneading. let

this sit for 6 hours.

4. Press all the air out of it and shape the bread. This makes nice

oval loaves and excellent baguettes. At this point you have 2.5

hours until baking. If you are making baguettes, you want to

stretch the baguettes. This will give the crumb a nice open

texture and slightly improve the rise.

6. Bake until crust is brown (30 minutes) at around 450.

notes:

1. using a little bit of rye in the flour (say 1/4 cup) should

improve storage, flavor, rise and color.

2. I frequently start this in the morning so that the schedule is:

a. refresh the starter before I go to bed.

b. Do step 1 when I wake up.

c. Do step 2 at lunch (I work 10 minutes from my apartment)

by bike.

d. Do step 3 when I get done from work.

e. Place the dough in the fridge.

f. Pull the dough out just before I go to bed. (around

midnight)

g. Do step 4 at about 6 in the morning and go back to bed for

another 2 hours.

h. wake up and stretch the dough. (around 8)

i. bake it. (around 8:30-9)

j. Get to work late and get back all the good will with

excellent bread!

Putting it in the fridge should slow down the fermentation enough

to help develop the flavor.

3. This is a pretty wet dough. That should lead to a somewhat more

open crumb, which is pretty hard to achieve with whole wheat

breads. Being wet is going to give this a more interesting

internal texture. You can even play around with it and add more

water. It really does have nice effects. I would only add the

water though, once you are done with kneading because it will just

become too hard to handle

4. You don't knead to knead this all that much because it is both wet

and there's a long fermentation (especially if you put it in the

fridge), both of which should encourage gluten development through

encouraging fermentation. However, realize that the stronger your

wheat is, the more you need to knead.

Soren

beckymauldin@... writes:

> Thank you so, so, so, so MUCH!! I've been researching this

> breadmaking thing like you for the past few months and was starting

> to give up on making good bread (unless I wanted to try making desem

> bread which sounds hard and labor intensive). I am just so glad to

> hear that it's possible to make good tasting, unsour homemade

> bread!! You have inspired me again to try it out!! Was it the GEM

> sourdough culture that made your previous bread so sour? I was

> thinking of getting their starter, but maybe I should get the one you

> got instead...

>

> Thanks a bunch!

> Becky

>

July 1, 2001

> > http://www.sourdo.com/ (the owner is Ed Wood, author of the previous book I> mentioned).

Thanks for all this information, it was great! I could not access this link though...I did take out the (the I was wondering if this was correct or maybe it just isn't working tonight.

a

July 3, 2001

>Was it the GEM sourdough culture that made your previous bread so sour? I was >thinking of getting their starter, but maybe I should get the one you got instead...

No, I've never used the GEM culture.

I had started my own culture following the directions in Sally Fallon's book. I now understand that it was sour because it didn't get fed enough. In the book by Silverton, she had an analogy I liked a lot. She says: "The yeast in the starter lives off the sugar from the starch in the flour. After the yeast has eaten all the starch, it will starve. So the starter needs to be regularly replenished. Watching over your starter may be a bit like a parent watching over a newborn. Don't miss a feeding! Other recipes may require starters to be fed only once a day, but think how you feel at the end of the day if you don't eat until dinner. If you absolutely can't be around to feed the starter as often as it needs to be fed, you can adjust the feedings and make a fine loaf of bread, but I've found that bread turns out a lot better when the starter has been fed three times each day. The main thing is to pick a schedule and then try to stick to it. On the days you are not going to make bread, you may choose to reduce the feedings. If you know in advance that you are going to bake, try to put your starter back on a three-times-a-day feeding schedule a couple of days before you do".

Anyway, you could probably get just about any culture to work if you took care of it right.

rochester@...~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*Click here for the best diet and nutrition information you will ever find!www.westonaprice.org~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*"What is gained from consulting a specialist and surrendering all judgment is often more than outweighed by a permanent loss of one's own volition." -- Gatto ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

July 3, 2001

a,

Were you able to get onto the site? I don't know why it came up like that, but it is www.sourdo.com

Hope you can get through :-)

rochester@...~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*Click here for the best diet and nutrition information you will ever find!www.westonaprice.org~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*"What is gained from consulting a specialist and surrendering all judgment is often more than outweighed by a permanent loss of one's own volition." -- Gatto ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

----- Original Message -----

From: a Augustine

Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 7:59 PM

Subject: Re: finally some excellent bread :-)

> > http://www.sourdo.com/ (the owner is Ed Wood, author of the previous book I> mentioned).

Thanks for all this information, it was great! I could not access this link though...I did take out the (the I was wondering if this was correct or maybe it just isn't working tonight.

a

July 10, 2001

You mention that you can make lots of other baked goods once you have

the sponge. Where do you get these recipes from? Thank you I am very

excited about giving this recipe a try!!!

Carol

July 10, 2001

Hi Carol and list,

I too got excited and motivated from 's message (thanks for sharing and it wasn't to long) I haven't made anything yet but I got one of the books recommended on this list (thanks for the tips) called World Sourdoughs from Antiquity by Ed Wood--he sells the various dry sourdough cultures through Sourdough International http://www.sourdo.com/index.htm This book is only recipes made from sourdough, it has recipes for many many different breads plus other baked goods like: crumpets, bagels, pizza, cinnamon rolls, hamburger and hotdog buns (now to find a sources for healthy hotdogs ???? ( : ) biscuits, muffins, plus things I've never heard of like Mannaeesh, Khubz Saj (an Arab thin bread), etc.

I got the French sourdough starter and just this minute made my first sponge (it took 2 days to activate the culture). I'm a novice at sourdough and I'm hoping some others on this list may want to swap recipes we've tested to weed out the "keepers" from the "I'll never make that again"

Also for any seasoned veterans out there, what's the difference between hard white wheat and hard red wheat, why would you use one vs the other?

Thanks,

----- Original Message -----

From: monzillo@...

Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 7:26 PM

Subject: Re: finally some excellent bread :-)

You mention that you can make lots of other baked goods once you havethe sponge. Where do you get these recipes from? Thank you I am veryexcited about giving this recipe a try!!!Carol

July 10, 2001

" Pellicer " <@...> writes:

> Also for any seasoned veterans out there, what's the difference between

> hard white wheat and hard red wheat, why would you use one vs the other?

The standard commercial wheats in the States come with 3 differences:

red versus white: white wheats are a recent hybrid.

hard versus soft: this has to do with the amount and location of

the protein

spring versus winter: this has to do with how it is planted and

harvested. Winters are planted in the fall and

harvested in late summer.

Springs are planted in the very early spring and

harvested in the late fall.

white wheats are a recent hybrid that doesn't have tannins in the

bran. The tannins make for a slight bitter taste. Whites also tend

to have somewhat lower mineral content and protein content.

There were two big pushes behind the hybridization of white wheats:

1. There was reason to think that they would grow better in

arid climates. They do. Australia grows some excellent

white wheats.

2. White wheats look better in things like pie crusts. So,

they were part of the " use more whole grains " public

health push.

In general, with whole grain breads, you want as high a gluten content

as you can get. Additionally, the higher mineral content of the reds

will produce a more active fermentation (which can be either good or

bad, depending on how often you bake) I've never actually baked with

the whites because they are expensive around here, and all the farmers

that I know that sell wheat directly to consumers sell hard red winter

or spring.

Soren

July 11, 2001

Some I get from books, and most I am just experimenting with adapting my old favorites.

I will post some of my successful recipes if you would like.

rochester@...~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*Click here for the best diet and nutrition information you will ever find!www.westonaprice.org~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*"What is gained from consulting a specialist and surrendering all judgment is often more than outweighed by a permanent loss of one's own volition." -- Gatto ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

----- Original Message -----

From: monzillo@...

Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 9:26 PM

Subject: Re: finally some excellent bread :-)

You mention that you can make lots of other baked goods once you havethe sponge. Where do you get these recipes from? Thank you I am veryexcited about giving this recipe a try!!!Carol

July 13, 2001

> Some I get from books, and most I am just experimenting with

adapting my old favorites.

> I will post some of my successful recipes if you would like.

>

> rochester@c...

> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

> Click here for the best diet and nutrition information you will ever

find!

> www.westonaprice.org

> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

> " What is gained from consulting a specialist and surrendering all

judgment

> is often more than outweighed by a permanent loss of one's own

volition. "

> -- Gatto

> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: monzillo@r...

> @y...

> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 9:26 PM

> Subject: Re: finally some excellent bread :-)

>

> You mention that you can make lots of other baked goods once you have

> the sponge. Where do you get these recipes from? Thank you I am very

> excited about giving this recipe a try!!!

>

> Carol

I would love to see your recipes, and I just ordered the book. I also

will post a great recipe for blueberry cake when I get a chance.

I now have the starter culture and need to get it activated. Should I

use whole wheat, will it work? The directions say to use white flour.

What did you use?

Carol

July 13, 2001

monzillo@... writes:

> I would love to see your recipes, and I just ordered the book. I also

> will post a great recipe for blueberry cake when I get a chance.

>

> I now have the starter culture and need to get it activated. Should I

> use whole wheat, will it work? The directions say to use white flour.

> What did you use?

There are trade offs here. And the standard recommendations about

starter maintenance is just plain wrong. The main trade off involves

the bacteria level and yeast activity in the starter.

Whole wheat will give you a stronger but shorter fermentation. This

is due to the higher mineral content from the germ and bran. It will

also be more sour. Using white flour (but not bleached!) will give you

a slower fermentation.

Depending on how often you bake, this can be good or bad. I don't use

a starter in the traditional sense. Instead, I take a piece of the

sponge before I add the salt. This is, therefore, whole wheat. And

it's much less wet, which will also slow down the fermentation. It

stores better in the fridge for the 3-5 days between baking.

A standard technique is to store your starter as white flour and

refresh it with whole wheat before you bake. This will speed up the

livening process. For people that then use white flour for the rest,

it should slightly improve storage properties (won't stale as fast)

and flavor, without much loss of rise.

Soren

July 13, 2001

***I now have the starter culture and need to get it activated. Should Iuse whole wheat, will it work? The directions say to use white flour.What did you use?***

Hi Carol.

I have used whole wheat with everything.

I am trying to remember exactly what the directions said, but I can't.

Basically, I mixed the powdered starter with the amount of flour (wheat) and water it said right before bed, let it sit overnight (about 12 hours), and started it the next day on a 3 times a day feeding schedule.

I finally got Carl's starter this week :-)

I baked my first loaf of bread and muffins with it today. It seems to me to be just as 'fast' and strong as the Russian starter. The muffins were excellent, and I haven't tasted the bread yet. Very cool.

rochester@...~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*Click here for the best diet and nutrition information you will ever find!www.westonaprice.org~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*"What is gained from consulting a specialist and surrendering all judgment is often more than outweighed by a permanent loss of one's own volition." -- Gatto ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

July 13, 2001

What does anyone know about using Spelt flour instead of wheat for the starter and bread?

a Augustine

I wish you enough sun to keep your attitude bright.I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun more.I wish you enough happiness to keep your spirit alive.I wish you enough pain so that the smallest joys in life appear much bigger.I wish you enough gain to satisfy your wanting.I wish you enough loss to appreciate all that you possess.I wish you enough ''Hello's" to get you through the final goodbye.--anonymous

----- Original Message -----

From: Soren Dayton

Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:25 PM

Subject: Re: Re: finally some excellent bread :-)

monzillo@... writes:> I would love to see your recipes, and I just ordered the book. I also> will post a great recipe for blueberry cake when I get a chance.> > I now have the starter culture and need to get it activated. Should I> use whole wheat, will it work? The directions say to use white flour.> What did you use?There are trade offs here. And the standard recommendations aboutstarter maintenance is just plain wrong. The main trade off involvesthe bacteria level and yeast activity in the starter.Whole wheat will give you a stronger but shorter fermentation. Thisis due to the higher mineral content from the germ and bran. It willalso be more sour. Using white flour (but not bleached!) will give youa slower fermentation.Depending on how often you bake, this can be good or bad. I don't usea starter in the traditional sense. Instead, I take a piece of thesponge before I add the salt. This is, therefore, whole wheat. Andit's much less wet, which will also slow down the fermentation. Itstores better in the fridge for the 3-5 days between baking.A standard technique is to store your starter as white flour andrefresh it with whole wheat before you bake. This will speed up thelivening process. For people that then use white flour for the rest,it should slightly improve storage properties (won't stale as fast)and flavor, without much loss of rise.Soren

July 31, 2001

Soren,

Just wanted to say thank you so much for the book recommendations. I just got The Bread Builders and I am really enjoying it--not done yet but this is an amazing and wonderful book for anybody really interested in bread.

I know we've talked about sour dough on the list but is anyone here making the Desem bread described in this book and also in Laurels' Kitchen Bread book--after reading the description I know this bread is in my future and just want to get any hints from those who have already been down this path.

--

----- Original Message -----

From: Soren Dayton

Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 2:31 PM

Subject: Re: finally some excellent bread :-)

Since there are a couple of book recommendations in here, I willmention a couple more.The Bread Builders by Dan Wing and Alan . This is anextraordinary book about the details of bread baking. It will helpclarify a LOT of things for you, once you're already baking bread.The Village Baker by Joe Ortiz. An excellent description of certainkinds of baking processes. The Italian pane francesa (French Bread)baguette recipe translates WONDERFULLY to whole grain.And you should have the Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book, which is the onlybook that I know of that is solely devoted to whole grain breads.Many things in there are very helpful for taking non-whole-grainrecipes and converting them. And a great "troubleshooting" chapter.Soren" Rochester" <Rochester@...> writes:> I had sent most of this info to some other friends of mine, and decided to go> ahead and post it here too, so those of you on lds-uc can just ignore this, it's> mostly a repeat.> > > > A few months ago we were talking about bread here on this list, and I just> couldn't let go of the idea that it should indeed be possible to have good,> healthy bread available for us. So I started researching, and researching and> researching some more. And then I started cooking.> > I am so beyond excited! We are eating EXCELLENT bread here, as well as every bread> related product you could possibly think of (I just pulled some yummy biscuits out> of the oven, and the cinnamon bread is on its way in).> > All of this is done using a sourdough starter. BUT, I now know that a properly> cared for sourdough is NOT sour!!!!! This bread is so incredibly good, and my kids> are gobbling it up like there is no tomorrow. I have an autistic child, and if she> gets even a crumb of gluten, we have hell to pay for at least a week, but she is> eating this bread with NO negative reactions what-so-ever, and in fact, is> making a lot of progress. We have not changed ANYTHING else with , and since> starting all of this sourdough stuff, the child is growing mentally in literal> leaps and bounds. A few days ago, (who is TOTALLY non-verbal) was playing> APPROPRIATELY with the blocks from my 3 yr old's birthday party. She was stacking> them, and counting to 10 clear as a bell as she stacked them. When they would> fall, she would begin stacking them again, and start counting at one again. Now,> those of you who do not know probably have no clue how big this is, but let> me just tell you, it is HUGE!!!!!! I KNOW it is because her body is being fed and> actually ABSORBING nutrients it never has before.> > > > Anyway, this will be long, and I apologize in advance, but I wanted to share some> of the health info I have found about these wonderful breads, and some recipes> too.> > Enjoy! :-)> > > > ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*> > > > Simple & Healthier Breadmaking> > By Jacques de Langre> > The nutritional and better absorption/assimilation of whole grain bread made with> natural starter (sourdough) leavener instead of commercial yeast are numerous and> of great importance to the health-seeker.> > In many technical and medical writings, the two techniques of baking: natural> sourdough leaven and commercial bakers yeast are often confounded and> contradicted.> > It is the aim of this paper to clear up this confusion.> > All of the benefits of natural starter and all of the clearly detrimental effects> of commercial yeasted bread are thoroughly exposed and discussed in the> forthcoming 1981 edition of "Breads Biological Transmutations". Many of these> findings are quite recent and supported by scientific evidence and clinical> studies.> > Baking By Principle.> > The aim of breadbaking is to transform the various nutrients obtained from> fresh-milled whole grain flour in a way that best facilitates their absorption. To> do this effectively, life's laws must be respected through all of the> transformation of matter that affect our nutrition. It is important for the bread> to retain the vital and dynamic qualities that animate the grain throughout its> life: Germination, growth and maturity.> > Starter Leaven-A Definition.> > True starter leaven is obtained from the wild or spontaneous ferments that exist> in the air. This micro-macro-flora consists of a multitude of micro-organisms in> symbiosis - a mutually beneficial association.> > False Leaven.> > In attempts to make sourdough bread - for its characteristic taste and to please> customers who request natural leavened bread, -professional bakers and bread> process researchers have often begun a primary starter with minimal amount of> commercial yeast to get it going, or simply by holding back a certain quantity of> yeasted sourdough from the previous days baking. This, in no way, duplicates the> health benefits of true benefits of true natural sourdough leaven and is actually> injurious to health is the same way yeasted bread is.> > Easy Method for First Starter.> > Making a true leaven First Starter is much easier and failproof than most> beginners and long-time yeast bakers imagine. The myths that surround starter-type> breadmaking fall apart when one bakes by principle.> > RULES:> > 1.Use only fresh ground flour from organic sources.> > 2. Grind the flour fairly coarse and only on natural stones.> > 3. Milling of the coarse flour should be controlled so that the temperature within> the flour does not rise above 96 degrees F. (To preserve the heat-sensitive> delicate enzymes).> > 4. Use untreated well or spring water. Fluoride, chlorine, ionized or distilled> will not promote ferments.> > 5. Mix 1 cup of cold water to 1/2 cup of fresh coarse ground flour. Do not add> salt, oil or least of all: yeast. Knead the mixture until a smooth consistency> develops.> > 6. Place the resulting mixture in a clean (scalded) wooden bowl or earthenware> crock covered loosely with a clean cotton cloth in an area that is well venhilated> but free of draft, cool and dark but not not refridgerated unless inside building> temperature is above 90 F. Stir mixture with with a scalded spatula every day for> three days.> > 7. After three days of cool storage, starter will have acquired a beer-like> fragrance, display some bubbles or if dry will show superficial fine cracks.> > 8. From this point on, the starter may be kept in an airtight closed jar and> refridgerated. It no longer requires air in order to live. The starter does> require periodic feeding with fresh flour or usuage in bread along with refreshing> or renewing.> > Deep Freeze:> > For inactive storage periods up to 3 or 4 weeks, it is possible to store the> starter in a deep freeze. In any prolonged periods of inactivity, the only danger> is that the starter will acquire an excess of acidity or that the acid will turn> to acetic acid instead of lactic acid. (Lactic acid is friendly to our organism,> acetic is not.)> > Thawing out and Use of Deep Frozen Starter.> > It is important to completely thaw out out the starter before use in bread and to> avoid rushing the process. Under no circumstance should hot water be used to thaw> it out as this would destroy the enzymes and kill the starter action. Be sure to> feed and remix the starter every time it is thawed out.> > Starter Functions.> > Definition:> > A starter is a bread leavening agent that contains a wide spectrum of wild> biological ferments, mold and digestive enzymes, all contributing to the health of> the intestinal flora.> > Primary Function:> > The starter serves to change the raw elements of wheat and other cereal grains> into ready nutrients, more easily absorbed by the body.> > Auxilary Role:> > The combined action of the wild ferments and enzymes maintained within the starter> added to the enzymes existing in the freshly ground whole flour are creating heat> and energy that will aerate and leaven the bread harmoniously.> > Bonus Benefits:> > Among the multitude of elements present within the starter-leavened bread, some> combine to insure the breads keeping qualities while others serve to improve its> taste during the aging. (While yeated bread loses its taste quite rapidly after> baking and actually becomes toxic*, the natural leavened bread increases its> healing powers as well as its flavor and taste.)> > *For a complete discussion of this important difference, the reader is invited to> consult "Breads Biological Transmutations" published by Happiness Press 14351> Wyclif, P.O.Box DD, Magalia, CA 95954.> > Making Starter Bread.> > Dissolve 2 cups of the starter in 1 cup of cold spring water, add 2 to 3 cups of> fine ground flour and mix until a smooth consistancy is obtained. Store this> batter for 12 hours in a wood or earthenware at a low temperature (68degrees F. -> 16 to 18 degrees C.). Cover with a clean cotton cloth and keep away from> drafts. The above is called the Chef, it is an intermediary step between the> starter and the final bread dough.> > Note that it contains no salt and no oil or other additives. For smaller> quantities, the proportions can be halved. To 1 lb. Of Chef, add 1 to 2 quarters> of water and 4 to 5 pounds of fresh ground flour (Fine Ground).> > Begin to knead without salt. Weigh the amount of dough being formed and add 1 per> cent of that weight in unrefined salt, either in crystals or fine powder.> > Continue to knead for 15 to 20 minutes so as to completely dissolve and absorb the> salt. Allow the dough to rest one half hour. Separate the dough into loaf-size> pieces. Keep in mind that the bread pans should only be 1/2 - 2/3 full.> > Lightly oil the pans using either corn or sesame oil. Roll the dough balls in> flour, mold them into the pans and cover with a clean cotton cloth. Place the> covered bread pans in a moist area at a temperature of 75 to 80 F until they> double in size (3 to 6 hours).> > Baking:> > The purpose of the heat of baking is to transform the starches into dextrin. A> sufficiency of heat must be available to accomplish this purpose fairly rapidly> without scorching or burning the bread loaves.> > Preheat the Oven to 400 degrees F. Remove the cotton covers make sure that the> room in which the oven is located is free from drafts or cold air. Place the bread> pans without delay in the center of the oven and close the door tightly and> quickly. After 15 minutes, lower the temperature to 325 F. After hour, open the> door and check the color of the crust. At this time it should be possible to> quickly remove the the bread from their pans and place them alone on the wire> racks for better browning. (If they should stick, disregard this and oil & flour> them better the next batch around.)> > Cooling:> > When the bread is correctly baked, it should have an even color on all surfaces,> underside as well as on top.> > The shade of brown is near fresh-sawed redwood. This bread will keep without> refridgeration up to one month. But to accomplish this quality, the bread must be> cooled in an energetic draft and all surfaces exposed to the air. This is best> done on a wooden rack with the loaves standing on edge. When completely cooled,> wrap in kraft brown paper or in white paper sacks. Do not use plastic bags as the> bread must breathe. If mold (green spots) develop during storage, these are the> children of the bread and consist of natural penicillin, and will disappear when> bread is placed in a warm oven for a few minutes.> > Question:> > Why does the Natural Leaven Bread taste Sour?> > Answer:> > The action of the ferments of life bring the naturally leavened bread within the> optimal biological zone, which is slightly acid.> > If the bread has acquired a decidedly strong acid taste, it contains acetic> acid. This often happens in commercial sourdough breads and is detrimental to the> health. The mild sourness, however, belongs to the beneficial lactic acid and is> characteristic of the true leaven bread. This taste stabilizes itself after a few> hours and thus should not be thought of as stale bread too old for consuming.> > Question:> > Bran rich bread is known to deconstipate immediately. Why does natural leaven> bread appear at first not to effect the same quick deconstipating action?> > Answer:> > Much of the popularity of whole grain bread is due to its roughage and its power> to quickly scour the colon. When the whole grain bread is of the yeasted variety,> most of this roughage -being undigested by fermentation- is still in its abrasive> state and stimulates elimination by mechanical scouring action. The very> abrasiveness which has temporarily relieved the problem soon creates another one:> inflamation of the colon. True starter leavened bread owes its permanent> regulating action to the biological action of its ferments that alone possess the> power to regenerate the intestinal flora. These same ferments also restore the> peristatic action and the flexibility of the colon. While this cure is not as> spetacular as the non-predigested high-roughage diet, it has a much more lasting> and beneficial biological quality.> > Question:> > Why does Naturally Leavened Bread appear not to contain any bran particles and yet> retains a dark brown color within the inside crumb as well as the crust?> > Answer:> > The micro-organisms of the natural leaven have in effect digested the bran flakes> to such a degree that they totally disappear. All the nutrients of the bran coats> have been retained, however, and this accounts for the dark coloring inside the> loaf. This color is the evidence of the use of natural leaven: that of creating a> physiochemical tranformation of the elements within the dough, in order to obtain> a predigestation of the nutrients. This results in a total assimilation of these> nutrients by the human organism.> > ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*> > Yeast Free Bread...Real Food For Health> > By Lynn Gordon> > What are yeasts? Willard Rippon, PH.D., said in his book Medical Mycology:> "Yeasts (including Candida albicans) are mild mannered creatures incapable of> producing infection in a healthy individual. They only cause trouble in persons> with weakened defenses.. ..the severity of the disease will depend on how weak a> persons resistance is, rather than any disease-producing properties exhibited by> the fungus....because of its rapid ability to make itself at home in mucous> membranes (the medical term is colonize) and take advantage of many types of host> alterations, the clinical manifestations of candida infection are exceedingly> variable....Candida albicans accounts for the vast majority of diseases caused by> the yeast." . Crook ,M.D., defines what yeast is in his book The Yeast> Connection:> > "Yeasts are single cell fungi which belong to the vegetable kingdom. And like> their cousins the molds, they live all around you. And one family of yeasts,> Candida albicans, normally lives in your body and more especially in your> intestines and other parts of your digestive tract."> > Yeast germs normally lives on the mucous membranes, along with billions of> friendly germs. The dark recesses of the digestive tract and the vaginas are the> perfect environment for yeasts. Unfriendly bacteria, allergens, and viruses also> find their way into these and other membrane-lined passageways, including the> respiratory tract. However, when the immune system is strong, these unfriendly> bacteria arent able to penetrate into the deeper tissues or blood stream. When the> system is weak and vulnerable, the opposite occurs thus creating illness.> > When yeasts multiply in the body, the put out toxins which circulate through the> system causing hundreds of symptoms which often times lead to serious> illness. When the yeast multiplication occurs, this weakens the immune> system. Other factors such as nutrition deficiencies caused by poor diet and/or> inability of the body to absorb essential amino acids, essential fatty acids,> complex carbohydrates, vitamin minerals also weaken the immune system.> > Common symptoms of a weak immune system are fatigue, depression, headaches, and> the development of yeast or fungus infections on the nails, skin, or> vagina. Allergies and becoming more susceptible to infections such as those of> nose, sinus, ear, throat, bronchial tubes, and bladder are also common symptoms.> > Twentieth century diets which are rich in sugar, bakers yeast, and birth control> pills encourage yeast growth. Naturally leavened bread, commonly referred to as> yeast-free bread, is easily assimilated by the body and does not promote yeast> growth.> > Yeast-free breads are growing in popularity due to the fact that they are being> recommended by health care professionals to their patients that have> yeast-connected health problems as described previously.> > Bread is The Staff of Life, our daily sustenance. What are the characteristics of> this alternative yeast-free bread? Natural, traditional bread must be leavened in> a natural traditional way. Bakers yeast is not a natural and traditional leavening> as is generally believed today. The natural leavening process requires a long> fermentation time. By mixing wheat and water to make a dough, and letting this> dough rest at least twelve to twenty-four hours in a temperature controlled> environment, the dough develops from the exposure to all the microorganisms in the> air.> > Jacques de Langre, director of the Grain and Salt Society stated that The natural> leavening agents provide a better strain of bacteria to the human system than the> Lactobacillus acidolphilus which is derived from cows milk. These friendly> bacteria help control candida. On the other hand, bakers yeast is a pro-candida> organism. Why not ignore the leavening altogether?> > There are many good qualities of unleavened bread, but there is a big catch-22> factor. Wheat, the primal grain, contain phytic acid or phytin- a natural> ingredient that is associated with poor digestion, anemia, and nervous disorders> disorders to name a few. The natural group of leavening microbes (microorganisms> in the air) in naturally leavened/yeast-free breads eliminate 100% of the phytin;> breads baked with bakers yeast contain 90% of the harmful acid.> > Unleavened bread leaves even more phytin on hand for the unsuspecting> eater. Natural leavening is a multi-faceted phenomenon. When the multiple forms of> airborne microbial life contact the warm, moist environment of kneaded dough,> processes of fermentation are initiated.> > Complex carbohydrate molecules are broken down into simple sugars. When these> complex carbohydrates are broken down they become very digestible and can be> easily assimilated and properly eliminated by the body.> > The yeast-free variety of bread is also more nutritious. The long proofing time> breaks down the bran of the grain, releasing valuable minerals which are dissolved> in the rich dough, hence producing a healthful and tasty bread.> > 150 years ago, microbiological science isolated and cultured one particular yeast,> the special Saccharamyces cerevisae, commonly known as bakers yeast. It was> discovered that this tiny character caused a rapid and uniform raising of the> dough, which was therefore much more predictable and controllable than the natural> leaven method. This bacteria stimulated unnatural growth. The new cultured yeast> made it possible to to raise a new loaf in 1 hour compared to the 24 hour process> the naturally leavened yeast-fee bread required. Little did they know that they> were causing an unnatural imbalance in the intestinal flora of all who consumed> their daily bread.> > The rising popularity of naturally leavened yeast -free bread is not only for> health reasons but for reasons of quality and taste as well. To lovers of good> bread, there is nothing to compare with naturally leavened whole grain> breads. Yeast free breads have a good keeping quality (1 month refrigerated) and> when bread is warmed it tastes as though it was just baked.> > For centuries man has been nourished on naturally leavened (yeast-free) bread. In> the search for health for ourselves and our families, let us seek out this true> bread - Bon Appetite!> > Transcribed from the Sept/Dec 1994 Mountain Ark Catalog.> > Lynn Gordon runs the French Meadow Bakery in Minneapolis, Minnesota> > ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*> > When I started this obsession, I searches for everything I could possibly find on> the internet. Then I got two books, _Breads from the LaBrea Bakery_ by > Silverton and _World Sourdoughs From Antiquity_ by Ed Wood. Both of these books> had a lot of excellent info, but I just could NOT find recipes that used only> whole grain flour. Even the 'whole wheat bread' recipes I found used quite a bit> of white flour. So I decided that I just needed to get my hands dirty and start> experimenting on my own. The process that has finally turned out a great (I would> say almost perfect) loaf of bread has been a mixture from the two books, as well> as some generous input from my dh, who is a professional chef and a graduate of> the Culinary Institute of America in New York.> > First of all, it is absolutely possible to create your own starter, but I would> seriously suggest getting some from a good one that has been going for quite a> while. Think about it. There have been countless starters started over the> centuries, but not all of them still exist today. The ones are still around are> because they are GOOD. Someone on a message board had an anology that I liked "If> you wanted to learn to surf, would you insist on building your own surfboard> first?" For the record, I did grow my own starter ala instructions from> _Nourishing Traditions_, and while the bread looked good and rose well, it was> SOUR!!!!!! I just couldn't bring myself to make more, and let the starter die> out. Fortunately, now I understand why it was so sour, and I believe that I could> grow a good starter now, but I have no interest as I already have an excellent> one.> > Two good sources for starters are Sourdoughs International> > http://www.sourdo.com/ (the owner is Ed Wood, author of the previous book I> mentioned).> > Here you will find about 10 different starters to choose from. I chose the Russian> Starter, as it was supposed to work well with 'heavy Russian wheats' and not be> very sour. This is a very fast starter (I never knew before that there are> different speeds in starters - a fast starter consumes the nutrients in wheat> faster, thereby requiring less time to make the bread) I REALLY like this> starter. It is $10.50 if you order it from this company. I would also be more than> happy to send some of mine, but it might take longer, as I would need time to dry> it, get to the post office and mail it etc. But if your budget is really tight,> it's an option.> > The other source is to send a #10 self addressed stamped envelope to> > Oregon Trail Sourdough> P. O. Box 321 Jefferson,> MD 21755 USA> > This one is free, but it may take awhile to receive it, as they wait untill they> have built up a few requests before sending it out. This sourdough is one that was> originally offered by Carl Griffith, but he died recently, and some of his friends> are keeping the offer going for him. This sourdough starter came across the Oregon> Trail with Carl's family in 1847, and no one know's how long it had been going> before that. I have not yet received mine yet, but all of the reports I read about> it were very glowing.> > Like I said, it is free, but they certainly won't turn down a donation ;-)> > Ok, once you get your starter, follow whatever directions come with it to get it> revived. Once it is going, most people say to feed it once a day, but according to> Silverton (and I found this to be very true also), this is just too long and> why a lot of sourdoughs are so sour. If you feed it first, you can leave a starter> in the refridgerator for up to 6 months before feeding again, but it will take 3> days of feeding it 3 times a day for it to be really good and healthy before using> it. It only takes one day of 3 feedings to get it up to par after a week in the> fridge, but any longer than 2 weeks, and it will need 3 days. I have a back-up> starter in the fridge, but I have never gone long enough between baking to worry> about all of this. So basically, I save 1/2 cup starter everyday from the sponge,> feed it with another 1/2 cup flour and water (so now it equals 1 cup), feed it> another about 1 1/2 cups of flour and water in about 6 hours (so now it is 2 1/2> cups), and then mix all of that with the sponge overnight, saving back 1/2 cup> again in the morning each day and starting over.> > After much trial and error, I have discovered that the best method with whole> grain flours is the sponge method. Doing it any other way had the bread proofing> too long before it had fermented long enough for the right acids to do their work,> and it didn't taste nearly as good or rise very well.> > I hope this is making sense. I have so much info swimming around in my head, and> am finding it hard to share it all without going into tons of detail.> > It is absolutely possible to make a really decent loaf of bread with just flour,> salt and water, and I would actually suggest that this be done on the first loaf> or two, so you can get a good feel for how the bread is supposed to behave (it is> a little different working with a living organism, and you really need to get a> feel for how it should be at each level).> > That said, here is my FAVORITE bread recipe. It rises really well, has a good> crust and crumb (the part that isn't crust :-) ), and works really well for> sandwiches. It has the characteristic 'tang' of a natural yeast bread, is slightly> sweet, but it ISN'T sour.> > Put two cups of flour into a bowl (NOT metal, it conducts too much heat. I use> glass) and add enough water to barely get all of the flour wet when stirred, kind> of like a cookie dough consistency. Then dump all of the sourdough starter into it> and mix well. (It should all equal about 4 1/2 cups. This is the sponge. I> generaly put this in my oven, as it is about the right temp, and draft free. This> needs to sit for about 12 hours, in order to build up the lactic acid> (lacto-fermentation once again :-) ), but no more than 15 hours. With a fast> starter like the Russian, it will have already consumed all of the nutrients in> the flour and be in a dormant stage, so at about 9 or 10 hours, or 2 or 3 hours> before you want to use it, add another cup of flour to get it active again (just> hold back a cup of flour from the original two).> > After 12 hours, take 1/2 cup out and put it into a jar with another 1/2 cup of> flour mixed with water like when starting the sponge. Mix this up real good and> put the lid on the jar. I screw it on enough to keep it on, but leave it loose> enough that if the starter rises too much, it can escape the jar without bursting> it. I keep this on top of my freezer with a dishtowel wrapped around it, and it> seems to be the perfect temp (in old days, they used to keep it in the cupboard> above the woodstove, and goldminers used to sleep with it in their sleeping> bags!).> > So now you should have 4 cups of sponge. If you used it all, it would make 2> loaves of bread. I generally make one loaf of bread, and make something else with> the rest (muffins or pizza dough or banana bread or pancakes, or a million other> things).> > Put two cups of sponge in a big bowl (I use my kitchen-aid, but you can hand mix> and knead it too, just mix it in the bowl until it is too stiff, and then mix and> knead it on the counter). Melt 3 or 4 Tbs butter (I use 3, 4 makes an even softer> loaf) in a pan, and then add 1/2 cup cold milk, 4 Tbs honey, and 1 tsp salt. Stir> all of this up and make sure it is about the temp of breastmilk. Add this to the> sponge and mix well. Knead in flour (about 3 cups, I never measure, I just pour it> in until it looks like dough, soft, but not too sticky to work with). Knead for> about 5 minutes, and then let the dough rest, covered with a cloth, for 20> minutes. This rest period help the texture of the dough, as well as the taste.> > After the 20 minute rest, knead again for about 5 minutes.> > I use a bread pan because my family seems to like it better, but you can free form> the loaf too. Form the loaf into the shape you want (I roll it out in a rectangle,> and then roll it up jelly roll fashion and put into the bread pan, it seems to> make a more uniform loaf this way).> > The dough needs to proof now, and the time will depend on the speed of your> starter. With the Russian starter, it generally takes about 3 hours, with others> it can take up to 6 or more. I boil a pan of water and then put it on the bottom> shelf of the oven with the bread on the top shelf. The steam and heat this creates> is a perfect environment (right humidity and temp) for bread to proof (a trick my> dh learned in school). You will know the dough is ready by the way it feels. When> the dough is first kneaded, it springs back when you poke it with your> finger. When it is proofed right and the nutrients consumed by the starter, it> will have a slightly flabby feel to it, but you should still be able to feel> activity in the core (remember, this dough is alive, it isn't cookie dough). When> you touch it, it will not spring all the way back. If it feels flabby all the way> through, it is over-proofed, and will have no oven spring (when the bread expands> as as it is cooking, it is the yeast rising the dough in it's last gasp of life),> the loaf will possibly deflate while cooking, and it may be overly sour. If it is> underproofed, the dough will develop too much oven spring and the finished loaf> will have a ceramic-like finish rather than one well blistered with tiny> fermentation bubbles, also an unappealing pallor, bulges or blowouts on the sides> or a lopsided appearance, and a tight, restricted look. If the dough feels too> firm and if it springs back at the touch of a fingertip, it is underproofed.> > When the dough is ready, preheat the oven to 400* Right before you put it in,> slash the top of the loaf (I use a straight edged razor). You don't want to go> much deeper than 1/4 of an inch, and don't go farther than an inch from either end> of the loaf.> > When the bread is cooking, there needs to be some moisture in the oven, or the top> will crust over too fast and the bread will not be able to grow properly. In> professional bakeries, they have steam injected ovens. Ther are 2 ways to mimic> this at home. The way I use is to boil a pan of water, load the bread in and then> put the pan of boiling water in the bottom of the oven. You can also use a spray> bottle and spray the oven right before loading the bread, and then immediately> after, and 3 or four more times in the next 5 minutes (this way works best if you> are cooking the bread directly on oven tiles). Then, do NOT open the oven door for> the next 20 minutes, so that the steam can do its work. After 25 minutes, go ahead> and check the bread and see if it needs rotated, and remove the pan of water if> you used one. The bread will need about 15 to 20 minutes more to cook. It is done> when you thump the top and it sounds hollow. The crust will probably appear pretty> dark (I SERIOUSLY thought it was burned the first time) and hard, but it will> soften and lighten up after sitting a while. After it comes out of the oven, you> will want to immediately get it onto a cooling rack, or the crust will be steamed> in the pan, and the crust will be too soft to do its job properly. A properly made> sourdough will last a LOT longer than a regular loaf of bread. The crust will seem> hard, but should be fairly easy to cut, and the bread inside will be a nice> texture. The thick crust allows the bread to be sliced very thinly for sandwiches> etc. You do not need to wrap the bread, and in fact, it will go bad faster if you> do. Just stand it on end with the cut part facing down on the cutting board, and> the crust will protect the bread from drying out. When you warm sourdough, it will> taste and feel just like it was fresh baked. It is wonderful!> > I know that these instructions have been long, and I apologize. If I have made it> seem complicated, someone please smack me, because it really is NOT. For just> about any other recipe, you follow these basic instructions, just varying the> ingredients.> > For a batter bread (I will use banana bread as an example) you first make the> basic batter, which is> > 2 cups sponge> > 2 Tbs butter> > 1/2 cup milk> > 1 tsp salt> > 2 Tbs sweetener (honey, sucanat etc.)> > approx 3 cups flour> > Mix everything but the flour in the same method as before (melting the butter and> adding the milk and other ingredients).> > Add in the other ingredients (for banana bread that would be 1 egg beaten - 1 cup> mashed banana - 1/2 cup sweetener (honey, sucanat, etc.) - and 1/2 cup chopped> nuts). After this is all mixed, you add the flour until it is the right texture,> approx 3 cups. Put it all into a greased pan and proof until the dough rises 1/2> inch above the edge of the pan. Preheat oven to 350 and bake for 45 minutes (no> need for steam or slashing).> > Once you've got the basic method down, you can make just about anything. The other> night I made navajo tacos (YUM!) using the basic bread dough. I divided the dough> into little balls, and let it rise for about 3 hours, Then I rolled them into thin> circles, and fried them. They ended up puffing a bit, and were very soft and yummy> with all of the makings for tacos on top. My kids gobbled them up! I also made> pizza dough the other night using the same recipe (without the honey), letting it> rise and then rolling it out and cooking most the way before adding the> toppings. It was out of this world good, and I have another in my freezer for a> quick meal anytime I am in a pinch.> > I hope this helps for those who have been following _Nourishing Traditions_ and> have desperately missed good bread like I did :-)> > > > rochester@...> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*> Click here for the best diet and nutrition information you will ever find!> www.westonaprice.org> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*> "What is gained from consulting a specialist and surrendering all judgment> is often more than outweighed by a permanent loss of one's own volition."> -- Gatto> ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*> > > > > >

March 5, 2002

--- In @y..., " Rochester " <Rochester@c...>

wrote:

> For a batter bread (I will use banana bread as an example) you first

make the basic batter, which is

>

> 2 cups sponge

>

> 2 Tbs butter

>

> 1/2 cup milk

>

> 1 tsp salt

>

> 2 Tbs sweetener (honey, sucanat etc.)

>

> approx 3 cups flour

>

> Mix everything but the flour in the same method as before (melting

the butter and adding the milk and other ingredients).

>

> Add in the other ingredients (for banana bread that would be 1 egg

beaten - 1 cup mashed banana - 1/2 cup sweetener (honey, sucanat,

etc.) - and 1/2 cup chopped nuts). After this is all mixed, you add

the flour until it is the right texture, approx 3 cups. Put it all

into a greased pan and proof until the dough rises 1/2 inch above the

edge of the pan. Preheat oven to 350 and bake for 45 minutes (no need

for steam or slashing).

I think I got the regular loaf going okay so I tried this banana

batter bread. I'm confused about what consistency it should be when

you put it in the pan. Mine was like batter so it didn't rise, it

just bubbled. The recipe didn't say anything about kneeding it so I

was afraid to add more flour. What should it be like?

>

March 5, 2002

> Thank you so, so, so, so MUCH!! I've been researching this

> breadmaking thing like you for the past few months and was starting

> to give up on making good bread (unless I wanted to try making desem

> bread which sounds hard and labor intensive). I am just so glad to

> hear that it's possible to make good tasting, unsour homemade

> bread!! You have inspired me again to try it out!! Was it the GEM

> sourdough culture that made your previous bread so sour? I was

> thinking of getting their starter, but maybe I should get the one

you

> got instead...

>

> Thanks a bunch!

> Becky

I started my own at home and as long as I feed it enough it doesn't

taste at all sour.

March 6, 2002

***I think I got the regular loaf going okay so I tried this banana

batter bread. I'm confused about what consistency it should be when

you put it in the pan. Mine was like batter so it didn't rise, it

just bubbled. The recipe didn't say anything about kneeding it so I

was afraid to add more flour. What should it be like?***

This was copied from another recipe. Mine never rises until it is cooking, and

it is the consistency of batter also. Actually, it does generally rise a

'little' (I know because I filled it to the top of the pan once and it

overflowed), but not much.

rochester@...

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" As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In

both instances there is a twilight when everything remains

seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be

most aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become

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-- O.

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Re: finally some excellent bread :-)

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