Re: Thyrolar, my endo, 's article!

[Guest guest]

sorry your visit wasn't so great. i've found that some

doctors are angry when you're knowlegeable. isn't that a

shame? are their egos so huge?

again, this doesn't apply to all doctors, just many.

-hillary

---- Original message ----

>Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:44:29 -0000

>

>Subject: Thyrolar, my endo, 's article!

>To: Thyroiditis

>

>Hi everyone... the endo's office was able to squeeze me in

today after I forgot my

>appointment last week. That's the good news.

>

>The bad... looks like another one bites the dust for me..

I'm not angry. I just refuse to lose

>energy over these doctors and it's not like I'm suffering

horribly, but it's clear that this

>one, once again, isn't progressive enough about thyroid

treatment for me. Yes, just

>another chapter in the stubborn endo book... most of us here

know all too well.

>

>But before I get into that... she has prescribed Thyrolar

for me.. has anyone else here tried

>it? She refused to prescribe Armour.. I'll get into that but

I wanted to ask that first for

>those who don't want to read the long version. :-) Also,

did she prescribe the right

>equivalent for me? Currently, I'm on:

>

>88 mcg Levoxyl generic

>10 mcg Cytomel

>

>She prescribed 1 grain of Thyrolar.

>

>

>So.. for the story... it's a shame about this doc because a

patient of hers wrote a rave

>review on Shomon's site and her office is located

literally right across the street from

>me. Her philosophy, she says, is one of compassion. I think

there's truth in that.. but... I

>think she's unorganized and not up on thyroid disease.

>

>The first thing I brought up was the possibility of insulin

resistance. I just told her I'd been

>reading up on it and how hypothyroid patients are more prone

to it... wasn't convinced I

>had it but I do have a lot of the symptoms that were in the

patient's story on

>Shomon's site that our in TX posted.

>

>Particularly from the beginning I've had the yeast

infections, 15 lb weight gain, fatigue,

>thirst/urination, slow wound healing, and now occasional

numbness in the legs. (The good

>news is my palpitations have finally gone away completely

after 2 years!) She asked me

>about my family history and basically because no close

relatives besides paternal

>grandmother and maternal grandfather have had diabetes, high

blood pressure or heart

>disease, she thinks it's very unlikely I have it.

>

>Next, I told her I don't feel awful but I think I could feel

better, particularly I'd like to lose

>the 15 extra lbs I've never had at any other time in my life

and I'd like to have more

>energy. I brought up the possibility of switching to

Armour... it's expensive for me to be

>paying for T4 and T3 separately anyway. She immediately said

no... because of mad cow

>disease... she just isn't comfortable with it. I said I

thought Armour was made only from

>pigs and she said it's made from cows too. Is that right???

I don't remember anyone

>mentioning cows on any list. I sense bias in her reaction,

which is a bummer... the review

>on 's site said she prescribed Armour for patients who

requested it.

>

>She said besides, Thyrolar was the synthetic equivalent. I

said I was aware of that but I first

>wanted to try something with a very different formulation

because I'd only ever been on

>synthetics, and because of the success with Armour I'd read

about... and she said Armour

>has the exact same chemical make-up as Thyrolar so it is the

same. This is very strange to

>me... I read in her literature that she believes many

thyroid patients don't do well on

>Armour because it IS natural and the antibodies will attack

it like they attack our own...

>she had also concurred with me when I first saw her that it

might be the new formulation

>of Levoxyl that made me start to go downhill exactly when

they changed it. So why is she

>changing her tune now???

>

>We went round about some other things...including adrenal

testing. She basically doesn't

>think taking adrenal hormone is of any help. She thinks I

should put an ice pack on my

>thyroid to help with the tenderness. She told me I should

test my levels in 7 weeks after I

>start the Thyrolar. I asked shouldn't I be tested now since

I hadn't been in months??? This

>is just one example of her disorganization. Finally she

looked back at my last test with my

>antibodies sky high (in the thousands) and said that she

thinks it may be my antibodies

>that are making me tired. I said well, yes I had been

reading how antibodies can skew the

>results of thyroid tests. She said she hadn't heard of that

and she'd have to see the

>research. So I whipped out the abstract of the Clinical

Chemistry article you posted, !!

>lol!! I wasn't even going to bring it, but I gave it to her

along with the printout of the

>insulin resistance case. She said she'd look into it.

>

>You know... it starts to get pretty darn awkward when you

are more proactive about

>thyroid research than your doctors. And I have been through

A LOT of docs. I am thinking

>about self-treating. I just think that shouldn't I exhaust

the possibilities that are out there

>before I just give up????

>

>

>

>

>

>

>*Note: Information is freely exchanged on this board based

on patient experiences, and should not be considered a

medical recommendation.

>

[Guest guest]

, I wrote a long reply to you earlier, but little old puter did the

freeze, and I gave up for a little while, lol! Anyway, be confident that

you know more than this doctor does, and maybe more than most about this

disease. Yes, there are some wonderful doctors out there, I just have the

issue of not being able to afford to try out one or the other, due to no

insurance, lack of funds, etc....You know the story. I have my eye on two

in Houston.

Armour--Pig thyroid--One grain--38 mcgs of T4 + 9 mcgs of T3-- +--T1,T2,

calcitonin, T7, all of them our own healthy thyroids had.

Thyrolar--Synthetic--One grain--59 mcgs of T4 + 12.5 mcgs of T3---all

synthetic, like you've been taking, but has less than what you've been

taking, unless you want to add in the extra 2.5 mcgs of T3 it has to offer.

Some people may feel very good on it, I don't know, but I'm thinking that

you don't feel well already, so you're ready for a real change, the one that

you wanted.

This doctor just hasn't done her homework, or has thyroid disease herself

and is in a state of brainfog or something, considering the way her services

have been touted by some.

Both products are made by Forest Pharmaceuticals so here are their web

addresses. If you download the Thyrolar info, like I did, then go to the

right hand column where it says " How Supplied " , and there is a table with

the equivalents. Be forewarned: They're saying that there are issues with

a depleted supply on every dosage except for the 3 grain dose. You could

split that one, but she didn't order that one for you, so you would be using

it up too quickly in the one grain, if you take another half grain to go

with it. That would be what it takes to be fairly equal to what you're

taking now, with a little more T3 in the larger dose (90 mgs), but with less

T4.

http://www.thyrolar.com

http://www.armourthyroid.com

I wrote Forest the other day about my alarm that there COULD be issues about

a depleted supply of Armour also, in the 1/4, 1/2, and another dosage that I

can't even remember right now. An admin person wrote me back saying they

were referring it to a pharmacist there and would get back with me, but I

have yet to hear a reply on this sbjct. I'm not going to freak, just

looking ahead.

Also, I'm so glad that you found the material useful, although I wish you

had not had to take it out to prove the point. I'm glad I was of SOME use,

lol!!

Tx

Thyrolar, my endo, 's article!

> Hi everyone... the endo's office was able to squeeze me in today after I

forgot my

> appointment last week. That's the good news.

>

> The bad... looks like another one bites the dust for me.. I'm not angry. I

just refuse to lose

> energy over these doctors and it's not like I'm suffering horribly, but

it's clear that this

> one, once again, isn't progressive enough about thyroid treatment for me.

Yes, just

> another chapter in the stubborn endo book... most of us here know all too

well.

>

> But before I get into that... she has prescribed Thyrolar for me.. has

anyone else here tried

> it? She refused to prescribe Armour.. I'll get into that but I wanted to

ask that first for

> those who don't want to read the long version. :-) Also, did she

prescribe the right

> equivalent for me? Currently, I'm on:

>

> 88 mcg Levoxyl generic

> 10 mcg Cytomel

>

> She prescribed 1 grain of Thyrolar.

>

>

> So.. for the story... it's a shame about this doc because a patient of

hers wrote a rave

> review on Shomon's site and her office is located literally right

across the street from

> me. Her philosophy, she says, is one of compassion. I think there's truth

in that.. but... I

> think she's unorganized and not up on thyroid disease.

>

> The first thing I brought up was the possibility of insulin resistance. I

just told her I'd been

> reading up on it and how hypothyroid patients are more prone to it...

wasn't convinced I

> had it but I do have a lot of the symptoms that were in the patient's

story on

> Shomon's site that our in TX posted.

>

> Particularly from the beginning I've had the yeast infections, 15 lb

weight gain, fatigue,

> thirst/urination, slow wound healing, and now occasional numbness in the

legs. (The good

> news is my palpitations have finally gone away completely after 2 years!)

She asked me

> about my family history and basically because no close relatives besides

paternal

> grandmother and maternal grandfather have had diabetes, high blood

pressure or heart

> disease, she thinks it's very unlikely I have it.

>

> Next, I told her I don't feel awful but I think I could feel better,

particularly I'd like to lose

> the 15 extra lbs I've never had at any other time in my life and I'd like

to have more

> energy. I brought up the possibility of switching to Armour... it's

expensive for me to be

> paying for T4 and T3 separately anyway. She immediately said no... because

of mad cow

> disease... she just isn't comfortable with it. I said I thought Armour was

made only from

> pigs and she said it's made from cows too. Is that right??? I don't

remember anyone

> mentioning cows on any list. I sense bias in her reaction, which is a

bummer... the review

> on 's site said she prescribed Armour for patients who requested it.

>

> She said besides, Thyrolar was the synthetic equivalent. I said I was

aware of that but I first

> wanted to try something with a very different formulation because I'd only

ever been on

> synthetics, and because of the success with Armour I'd read about... and

she said Armour

> has the exact same chemical make-up as Thyrolar so it is the same. This is

very strange to

> me... I read in her literature that she believes many thyroid patients

don't do well on

> Armour because it IS natural and the antibodies will attack it like they

attack our own...

> she had also concurred with me when I first saw her that it might be the

new formulation

> of Levoxyl that made me start to go downhill exactly when they changed it.

So why is she

> changing her tune now???

>

> We went round about some other things...including adrenal testing. She

basically doesn't

> think taking adrenal hormone is of any help. She thinks I should put an

ice pack on my

> thyroid to help with the tenderness. She told me I should test my levels

in 7 weeks after I

> start the Thyrolar. I asked shouldn't I be tested now since I hadn't been

in months??? This

> is just one example of her disorganization. Finally she looked back at my

last test with my

> antibodies sky high (in the thousands) and said that she thinks it may be

my antibodies

> that are making me tired. I said well, yes I had been reading how

antibodies can skew the

> results of thyroid tests. She said she hadn't heard of that and she'd have

to see the

> research. So I whipped out the abstract of the Clinical Chemistry article

you posted, !!

> lol!! I wasn't even going to bring it, but I gave it to her along with

the printout of the

> insulin resistance case. She said she'd look into it.

>

> You know... it starts to get pretty darn awkward when you are more

proactive about

> thyroid research than your doctors. And I have been through A LOT of docs.

I am thinking

> about self-treating. I just think that shouldn't I exhaust the

possibilities that are out there

> before I just give up????

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, gals!! Argh, wouldn't you know right when I've finally decided to

switch to a

new med they think they are going to run out!

You all bring up a lot of good points. I'm not sure what to do... I mean, I know

I don't want

to continue with this doc but self treatment is a big choice too. Interesting

suggestion for

Dr. Shames, Sheila, thanks. I'll think about it. That's a lot of money.

The more I think about this doctor spreading fear about mad cow disease with a

drug that

doesn't even contain cow... isn't that kind of unethical? I checked Armour's

site and they

clearly called it " porcine. "

Changing meds at all is scary for me to begin with... it's not a decision I take

lightly. I had

such a horrible time when I was first diagnosed and before I got on Levoxyl...

boy, I'd hate

to relapse. It's not like I'm suffering horribly... and maybe I'm a little vain

to be worried

about the extra 15 pounds. But I'd prefer to at least try to do something... as

it may point

to a larger problem down the road. Maybe like the palpitations the weight will

just go away

if I wait long enough, but I don't think so. This weight gain came after being

treated a

year, whereas the palps very slowly improved over the course of 2 years. My

initial weight

gain with hypothyroidism was only an extra 5 pounds. Then there are the other

little

annoying things... the fatigue, the chronic yeast which I've managed to

control... again,

nothing horrible, just annoying.

It does appear that I'd need 1 1/4 grain of Thyrolar.. an extra half seems too

much??

That's if my current 88 mcg T4/10 mcg T3 has my levels where they are supposed

to be.

Jeez, I didn't know that 25 mcg T3 = 100 mcg T4. I felt nothing when I doubled

my dose

of Cytomel from 5 mcg to 10... absolutely no different! I just finally no longer

have palps,

don't know if that is from the extra T3 or not.

Well, thanks for weighing in. I've chatted with absolutely no one who has taken

Thyrolar so

I just haven't heard the success stories that I've heard with Armour.

Take care, friends--

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone. I just had my blood drawn so my new labs should be in hopefully

next

week. I'm going to stay on Levoxyl/Cytomel until then and think over what to do

next.

Yeah, that article was interesting... jeez what's next -- Armour is voodoo?

:-)

> Hi ! You're in a tough spot right now, and you have a lot to think about.

>

> I'm just not sure how Thyrolar is going to much different than the

Levoxyl/Cytomel

combo.

>

> Re: Armour and the possibility of mad cow, well, of course, I WONDERED if that

COULD

be an issue; however, like you said, this doc is spreading some kind of fear

about it

without anything to back up her claim (that it can cause mad cow).

>

> I understand your fear of self-treating because I have the same fear. A

coaching session

with Dr. Shames is expensive ($270); however, that's the route I would probably

take. I

would save the money for it before just jumping in a self treating because IMO,

Dr.

Shames is the one doc I believe could sort it all out. After reading his book

and reading his

interviews, I think he's the best! He doesn't RX meds to patients unless he's

seen them, so

if he did recommend Armour, you'd have to order them online. I know this route

might

seem a little off the wall; however, it's what I would opt for. It's certainly

not for everyone

though.

>

> I do NOT think it's vain to want to lose the extra weight, , especially

since you have

all those symptoms of insulin resistance. Losing any extra weight will help

prevent the

chances of you becoming diabetic (along with regular exercise).

>

> I understand completely what you're saying about how you feel okay. You're not

suffering horribly, and neither was I, but I just wasn't willing to settle for

feeling just okay.

I wanted to feel closer to the way I used to feel.

>

> Anyway, all I can say is the Armour made SUCH a big difference for me. I know

it's not

like this for everyone. Certainly you don't want to feel worse and get yourself

at a place

where you were before.

>

> It's a lot of think about.

>

> If you decide to try the Thyrolar, you could start out with 1 1/4 grains and

see how you

feel. You can always slowly increase or decrease from there.

>

> I wish I could help. Hugs, Sheila