Re: Antidepressants and thyroid- Hannah

[Guest guest]

I am curious about a few of your comments....

My physiatrist has counseled me that panic attacks such as mine are brought on by severe chemical imbalances but always lie beneath the surface as I deal with alot of anxiety issues. And even though I have never been one to dwell she did council me that dwelling on the panic and the feelings it involves only makes the attack worse and that I need to get myself to a quiet place as soon as possible and if that's not possible deep breathing exercises and Xanex..

Also she has been counseling me along the lines of anxiety. We delve into those sorts of issues during our sessions to deal with my panic. I do deal with depression but it has been directly linked to my hormone imbalances so when we talk about that it's a venting session mostly.

Do I need to find a new shrink? I was pretty convinced she was on track.... Are you not in the US? I have found the treatment and cause and effects we learn can be very different across the pond. Also I work in PR and Marketing... I wish I had the option of slowing down. However it took me 2 years to find this job... the economy in Buffalo NY was bad before 9-11... after 9-11 it kind of died.

And personally I think this is very on topic as many thyroid patients deal with depression and panic issues.

Hannah Pasiszwww.starbrightdesigns.netwww.cafepress.com/starbrighthttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnderExposed/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WomenArtistsWork/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LadiesCraftHour/

Hannah, no problem with your being "preachy" or projecting. Thank you for your answer and your opinion, although I don't think that being on antidepressants for years and years could solve the problems we have. This is why I'm so careful with them. Yes, I suffer from "true" panic attacks and yes, they are very scary and prevent me from doing a lot of things I would like to do. Your suggestion "don't dwell" is probably wise but also quite far fetched. Panic attacks are usually a burden of people who dwell too much and I'm one of the bunch. To tell you the truth, even if sometimes the price I pay is a bit high, I think that life is not an highway to be travelled at full speed and without looking around. I see it as an opportunity to dwell and dig and sweat sometimes, in order to understand and, hopefully, to become better. Do I sound too preachy now? lol. Sorry. And a big apology to all the ladies not interested, sorry for going off topic. Just one little remark: panic attacks are known to be a symptom of depression and not anxiety. CiaoCarla

[Guest guest]

Where is that article on T4 NOT being able to cross the blood-brain barrier? It very directly applies to this conversation because it has been found that people who have a lot of trouble converting T4 to T3, period, have even more issues with brain chemical imbalance. Here's why: The brain uses T3 to control the brain chemistry, yet, T3 cannot cross the blood-brain barrier by itself, T4 only can, and in order to be used by the brain, it MUST convert to T3. T1 and particularly T2 have everything to do with the tissue saturation also. Now that's a catch-22 situation for most of us. (This is another reason why I think that I do better on the combination of a T4 product AND the Armour together. I cannot do without either one of them. Armour is wonderful, and if I had my choice, I would take only it. However, in my case, I am also having trouble keeping the T4 up, so I need more than what is in the Armour. That wouldn't necessarily apply to everyone, though. We're all so different. Saying that, when I was in a bad abusive marriage, also with dependency issues (financial mostly, I discovered way later, because I was ALWAYS independent of thinking), I began to have constant panic attacks in the last few yrs of the marriage. What I didn't realize at the time was that I WAS in a hyperthyroid state, which was screwing up my brain chemistry, causing me to go into one state of melancholia for a couple of months (that's when you can't even get out of bed, and the entire world is in a grayout; I wouldn't even have had the energy to kill myself), yet, when the doctor bypassed these tests in favor of treating with a TCA antidepressant, within a short period of time, I was running around a track two hrs a day and sometimes more, still unable to eat, and stayed in a constant state of what's known in the psychiatric world as free-floating anxiety, i.e., up and moving, beginning to "go public", losing a ton of weight (this is not the way to lose weight), down to 113 lbs at 5'6" tall, BUT my mind was constantly moving to and fro and I couldn't really stay focused on anything. Yes, SOME of it was that I had reached a point where I KNEW that I needed to take action, yet, financially I couldn't, or at least I thought I couldn't. Later on, when I was diagnosed as HYPOthyroid, we figured out that I had probably been in the intial HYPERthyroid phase of Hashimoto's, with my thyroid churning out thyroid hormone full speed ahead. When it went caput (around 4 months after I left my sorry x-husband), then, a different type of depression set in, one of physical lethargy, slow thinking, and all the other characteristics of hypothyroidism. I was finally diagnosed and treated, shoddy as the treatment might have been (T4 only), put on another TCA antidepressant, which actually catapulted me into what I call to this very day a long manic episode, though it did serve it's purpose. In telling all this, I'm saying that, yes, circumstances and situations are partially responsible for many of these things, as an OUTCOME, but the basic problem is chemical in nature. Everyone cannot be treated the same way for depression, but I do believe that many people are walking around out here with these problems, being told that the chemical imbalance only starts in their brain, when in fact, most of these problems started with thyroid disorder. Most psychiatrists refuse to examine ALL angles of the cause and effect of thyroid imbalances, coupled with depression. Even if they know the thyroid problem exists, they STILL have a tendency not to connect the two or three problems and similtaneously treat the whole person all together. Even many of the treatments they give, they don't realize, can worsen the thyroid disorder, and compound the problem.

Tx

Re: Antidepressants and thyroid- Hannah

I am curious about a few of your comments....

My physiatrist has counseled me that panic attacks such as mine are brought on by severe chemical imbalances but always lie beneath the surface as I deal with alot of anxiety issues. And even though I have never been one to dwell she did council me that dwelling on the panic and the feelings it involves only makes the attack worse and that I need to get myself to a quiet place as soon as possible and if that's not possible deep breathing exercises and Xanex..

Also she has been counseling me along the lines of anxiety. We delve into those sorts of issues during our sessions to deal with my panic. I do deal with depression but it has been directly linked to my hormone imbalances so when we talk about that it's a venting session mostly.

Do I need to find a new shrink? I was pretty convinced she was on track.... Are you not in the US? I have found the treatment and cause and effects we learn can be very different across the pond. Also I work in PR and Marketing... I wish I had the option of slowing down. However it took me 2 years to find this job... the economy in Buffalo NY was bad before 9-11... after 9-11 it kind of died.

And personally I think this is very on topic as many thyroid patients deal with depression and panic issues.

Hannah Pasisz

[Guest guest]

.. I always admire your capacity for the scientific side of all this. It is something I have just never been able to wrap my head around (science) even BEFORE the autoimmune nightmare I know live in...

Hannah Pasisz------------------------------------------------------------http://www.starbrightdesigns.nethttp://www.cafepress.com/starbrightMy auctions on Ebay: http://tinyurl.com/2cye3http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnderExposed/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WomenArtists/Workhttp://group.yahoo.com/LadiesCraftHour

Where is that article on T4 NOT being able to cross the blood-brain barrier? It very directly applies to this conversation because it has been found that people who have a lot of trouble converting T4 to T3, period, have even more issues with brain chemical imbalance. Here's why: The brain uses T3 to control the brain chemistry, yet, T3 cannot cross the blood-brain barrier by itself, T4 only can, and in order to be used by the brain, it MUST convert to T3. T1 and particularly T2 have everything to do with the tissue saturation also. Now that's a catch-22 situation for most of us. (This is another reason why I think that I do better on the combination of a T4 product AND the Armour together. I cannot do without either one of them. Armour is wonderful, and if I had my choice, I would take only it. However, in my case, I am also having trouble keeping the T4 up, so I need more than what is in the Armour. That wouldn't necessarily apply to everyone, though. We're all so different. Saying that, when I was in a bad abusive marriage, also with dependency issues (financial mostly, I discovered way later, because I was ALWAYS independent of thinking), I began to have constant panic attacks in the last few yrs of the marriage. What I didn't realize at the time was that I WAS in a hyperthyroid state, which was screwing up my brain chemistry, causing me to go into one state of melancholia for a couple of months (that's when you can't even get out of bed, and the entire world is in a grayout; I wouldn't even have had the energy to kill myself), yet, when the doctor bypassed these tests in favor of treating with a TCA antidepressant, within a short period of time, I was running around a track two hrs a day and sometimes more, still unable to eat, and stayed in a constant state of what's known in the psychiatric world as free-floating anxiety, i.e., up and moving, beginning to "go public", losing a ton of weight (this is not the way to lose weight), down to 113 lbs at 5'6" tall, BUT my mind was constantly moving to and fro and I couldn't really stay focused on anything. Yes, SOME of it was that I had reached a point where I KNEW that I needed to take action, yet, financially I couldn't, or at least I thought I couldn't. Later on, when I was diagnosed as HYPOthyroid, we figured out that I had probably been in the intial HYPERthyroid phase of Hashimoto's, with my thyroid churning out thyroid hormone full speed ahead. When it went caput (around 4 months after I left my sorry x-husband), then, a different type of depression set in, one of physical lethargy, slow thinking, and all the other characteristics of hypothyroidism. I was finally diagnosed and treated, shoddy as the treatment might have been (T4 only), put on another TCA antidepressant, which actually catapulted me into what I call to this very day a long manic episode, though it did serve it's purpose. In telling all this, I'm saying that, yes, circumstances and situations are partially responsible for many of these things, as an OUTCOME, but the basic problem is chemical in nature. Everyone cannot be treated the same way for depression, but I do believe that many people are walking around out here with these problems, being told that the chemical imbalance only starts in their brain, when in fact, most of these problems started with thyroid disorder. Most psychiatrists refuse to examine ALL angles of the cause and effect of thyroid imbalances, coupled with depression. Even if they know the thyroid problem exists, they STILL have a tendency not to connect the two or three problems and similtaneously treat the whole person all together. Even many of the treatments they give, they don't realize, can worsen the thyroid disorder, and compound the problem.

Tx

[Guest guest]

I had always studied medical things, when my children were little at home, when searching for answers to theirs and my former husband's medical problems. I was healthy then. Little did I know that later I would be desperately searching for answers to my own problems, both emotional and physical, out of sheer desperation and to glean help for myself. I didn't even know then that I would be working in the medical field, but then many members of my family seem to have that bend in nature.

Tx

Re: Antidepressants and thyroid- Hannah

.. I always admire your capacity for the scientific side of all this. It is something I have just never been able to wrap my head around (science) even BEFORE the autoimmune nightmare I know live in...

Hannah Pasisz