Closure.

[Guest guest]

As many of you know I recently posted a message on in-toiletries in response

to OTW mis-quoting Maurice and lying about CosmeticInfo. He-OTW-tried to

answer my post with more lies, but Janice the list moderator would not allow

it through. I however did get a copy of it that I will post below with

comments. Before I do that I have a few comments that I am going to make.

1. I don't trust people that refuse to sign their real name to their

email. The fact that they hide behind no name or a pseudonym makes me wonder

what they are hiding. OTW refused to use his real name on every list he

belonged to until he joined CosmeticInfo. Even though it is a requirement of

the list to use your real name, he chose , which is not his real

name...Tom may be closer. It is easy to spread false information if you can

just fade away and use a different name to spread more rubbish. Those of us

that truly are trying to help this industry have our real names and

addresses out there for all to see.

2. When people use this list in an attempt to gain legitimacy and when it

backfires on them, they then lie and twist what was said on this list, that

annoys me. It is also illegal as everything on this list is copyrighted and

needs approval to be used any where else. Of course most rats are anonymous

so it takes a little time to catch the right one.

3. CosmeticInfo has become known as the place to go if you want accurate

unbiased information. There are many good lists on the Internet, but we are

the best at what we do. Some of the governing laws and rules are very

complex and can not always be understood simply by reading a web page. That

is why we have tons of attorneys in this country getting paid 6 and 7 figure

salaries to disseminate those rules.

Below is OFF THE WALL'S answer to my post on in-toiletries. I am answering

it here because of the lies he is sending out to people. His name suits him,

not only is he off the wall, but in my opinion he is around the bend as

well...a frustrated egotist looking for legitimacy.

>

>> If you take a look at CosmeticInfo you will see that Maurice just

>> contacted the FDA and they told him that Latin names before the

>> common names are unacceptable.

>

>In one day I see Cosmeticinfo and Maurice's name bandied all over

>the place. As far as I know Maurice did not contact the FDA he simply

>reposted old mail from their web site. As you know I had reservations

>about posting your email to CosmeticInfo. I told you that this is old

>information and I wondered why you wanted to post it to CosmeticInfo.

>

(otw)I posted in CosmeticInfo because my name was dragged over to

CosmeticInfo by Maurice:

(Pat)This is not true. Your email to CosmeticInfo was on hold waiting for my

approval (because of your moderated status) for at least 18 hours before

Maurice posted to CosmeticInfo.

(otw)Maurice wrote in CosmeticInfo:

" As of today, this is all the information regarding this INCI

labeling issue/concern that was raised by T.

(aka OTW) on In-Toiletries. "

(Pat) True, but as mentioned above this was at least 18 hours after you

submitting your mail to the list. Maurice has access to all parts of the

list which would also give him access to your mail prior to posting. I told

him about the confusion you were creating at in-toiletries.

(otw)As for old info, hardly. The fact that the FDA does not allow the

use of Latin names only or Latin names before the common name is

very new info for CosmeticInfo. CosmeticInfo has been advocating

quite the opposite for a long time to the great disservice to the

crafter community.

(Pat) It is all old information, and imo you are wrong in your

interpretation. I say imo because of your claim that two FDA inspectors have

said this. Judging from the lies and mis-quotes I have seen from you, I

can't believe anything that you write. We have done the only logical thing

to do and that is to ask for an interpretation from the CTFA. When we get

that interpretation it will be printed in public. If you were correct it

would mean that every major cosmetic company in the US, with their batteries

of attorneys are wrong. This is highly unlikely.

>I'm sure Maurice does not appreciate you quoting him out of context.

>

(otw)Let Maurice speak for Maurice.

(Pat) I won't allow you to lie and twist what Maurice has said in an effort

to give legitimacy to what you have been saying. You have been misleading

people long enough, you will not get away using the people on CosmeticInfo

to justify the nonsense you are spreading over the web.

>Part of what Maurice did say was; " I do not see any reason why OTW

>would create images that aren't supported by reality. I have sent

>email to the CTFA to see what their position is on this subject. As

>soon as I hear back, I'll let you know. "

>

(oth)My " images " are supported in reality.

(Pat) That is what every nut case thinks.

(otw) I have posted many times for

all to read my private emails with the FDA stating that Latin names

only and Latin names before the commona name are not allowed by the

FDA. I even post the email addresses of the FDA correspondences for

any one to verify.

(Pat) Time will tell what is and is not allowed.

(otw) I have never seen Maurice post any verification

addresses or current references.

(Pat) Obviously, you only read your own garbage. Maurice is one of the few

people that always posts where his information came from.

(otw)And for Maurice to contact the CTFA is useless. The CTFA is a private

association. The CTFA has zero authority over labeling requirements.

Labeling is an FDA matter only.

(Pat) Just because your pea brain can't comprehend the relationship between

the FDA and the CTFA is not my problem. That relationship will be handled in

a separate email. Whether I allow you to remain on CosmeticInfo long enough

to read that information is doubtful.

>

>And: " As you probably know, Alan Harper is a Consumer Safety Officer

>working for CFSAN's Office of Cosmetics and Colors/Division of

>Programs and Enforcement Policy and Jeannie Ertter-Prego is a

>Consumer Affairs Specialist working for CFSAN's Office of Constituent

>Operations/Consumer Education Staff. "

>

>A Consumer Safety Officer hardly sounds like the Head of Enforcement,

>does it?

>

(otw)Try and discredit all you want. Halper works for the FDA in the

Office of Cosmetics and Colors/Division of Programs and Enforcement Policy

in Washington D.C. Sounds like the right source to me. I have been

working with for 6 months on labeling issues and he does have a

final say on labeling issues.

(Pat) Why do you point the finger at me to cover up your own lies. You have

said several times on in-toiletries that this guy is " head officer of

Cosmetic Enforcement at the FDA " you have also wrote it to me privately. The

information you sent to me looks like you tampered with the address as well.

You can't be trusted oth, I wouldn't believe anything out of your mouth. All

you are is a friging egotist looking for attention.

>

>Please refrain from " quoting " from CosmeticInfo on other lists

>because in most cases it simply does not get reported accurately.

>

(otw)Likewise, please contact and talk with the FDA and not the CTFA

before giving out labeling advice to the crafting community. It's

a real disservice and it's hurting a lot of crafters who are trying

hard to get their labels correct.

OTW

(Pat)The one that is hurting the crafters is you. I am going to unsub you

from CosmeticInfo for the following reasons. 1. You have not used your real

name as required. 2. You have been harassing members both on the list and

privately even after they requested that you not contact them. 3. You have

taken copyrighted material from this list and used it on another without

permission. 4. You lied and twisted that information to suit your own

misguided purpose. 5. You are a trouble-maker.

Don't bother answering this because no more of your mail will be accepted at

CosmeticInfo and filters will be used to filter your junk from private mail.

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

pat@...

http://www.houseofscents.com/