Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Please answer my posts regarding preservation, I've posted twice. Aloe vera juice sold for consumption requires refrigeration upon opening. In order to preserve it so allow it to sit out on anyone's bathroom counter in a spray bottle, I need help - and, from what I'm gleaning, phenopip is for oils, not for " water, " let alone a botanical water such as this. PLEASE tell me what preservatives to select from and where I can find appropriate usage rates, I'm begging! - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 In a message dated 1/29/03 5:57:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, 36551@... writes: > Please answer my posts regarding preservation, I've posted twice. > > Aloe vera juice sold for consumption requires refrigeration upon opening. > In > order to preserve it so allow it to sit out on anyone's bathroom counter in > a > spray bottle, I need help - and, from what I'm gleaning, phenopip is for > oils, not for " water, " let alone a botanical water such as this. > > PLEASE tell me what preservatives to select from and where I can find > appropriate usage rates, I'm begging! > Hi , I always use Liquid Germall Plus in products that have a high percentage water. If I remember correctly, your ingredients were preserved to some degree?? The aloe had potassium sorbate? The witch hazel had alcohol? I don't remember the amounts. If it were me, I would choose witch hazel distillate without alcohol and rely on the Liquid Germall Plus to do the job for everything. Hope this helps Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 In a message dated 1/29/03 5:57:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, 36551@... writes: > PLEASE tell me what preservatives to select from and where I can find > appropriate usage rates, I'm begging! > > Hi , I forgot this part.... <A HREF= " http://www.theherbarie.com/preservatives-antioxidants.html#Germall " > http://www.theherbarie.com/preservatives-antioxidants.html#Germall</A> Liquid Germall Plus is a product from ISP Sutton Labs and more information can be found on their site and also in our files and archives. <A HREF= " http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo/ " > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo/</A> Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 In a message dated 1/29/2003 8:03:46 AM Central Standard Time, AngiesHerbarie@... writes: > >Aloe vera juice sold for consumption requires refrigeration upon opening. > >In order to preserve it so allow it to sit out on anyone's bathroom > counter in > >a spray bottle, I need help ... > > Hi , > I always use Liquid Germall Plus in products that have a high percentage > water. If I remember correctly, your ingredients were preserved to some > degree?? The aloe had potassium sorbate? The witch hazel had alcohol? I > don't remember the amounts. If it were me, I would choose witch hazel > distillate without alcohol and rely on the Liquid Germall Plus to do the > job > for everything. Hope this helps Angie Thanks, Angie, it helps tremendously. The aloe has aloe, citric acid (not sure what for), and Sodium Benzoate at 1/10 of 1% (or .001). As for witch hazel distillate, is that witch hazel " extract " in a glycerin base, or what? Where can I find it? Based upon this information and the 3 formulas I'm trying to do, would the amount of Liquid Germall Plus differ for preserving the witch hazel and for preserving the aloe juice ... say, preserve prior to mixing? Forgive my ignorance, but I really have no clue. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 In a message dated 1/29/03 6:30:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, 36551@... writes: > Thanks, Angie, it helps tremendously. The aloe has aloe, citric acid > (not sure what for), and Sodium Benzoate at 1/10 of 1% (or .001). > As for witch hazel distillate, is that witch hazel " extract " in a > glycerin base, or what? Where can I find it? > Based upon this information and the 3 formulas I'm trying to do, would > the amount of Liquid Germall Plus differ for preserving the witch hazel and > > for preserving the aloe juice ... say, preserve prior to mixing? Forgive > my > ignorance, but I really have no clue. > - > > Hi , The aloe juice is the food grade type that is available at walmart, right? I have used it myself. The citric acid is probably just used to make the juice more acidic. Sodium benzoate is a good food grade preservative under acidic conditions...I think it is less than pH 3.5. So is potassium sorbate. The two are often used together. You will notice that this product still requires refrigeration after opening, which should tell you a bit about the preservation system. I think pH 3.5 is a little too low for most formulations unless you are making it for that purpose, but that's just my opinion....could possibly work I guess. The witch hazel distillate that I am referring to does not come in a base of glycerin. A distillate or hydrosol is basically the water that is left over after essential oils are made. We sell them at The Herbarie and so do many other people, like Marge at Nature's Gift <A HREF= " www.naturesgift.com " >www.naturesgift.com</A> The witch hazel at the pharmacy is the extract and is to my knowledge derived from the same source---maybe Marge can tell us differently?--- but these contain alcohol as the preservative. And since it can sit on the shelf, you can probably assume it is preserved adequately with the alcohol. But when you add anything else to it, the whole story changes. Alcohol will preserve when the concentration and percentages are high enough and you could simply add some more alcohol...sorry, I just can't remember that exact amount. I don't use alcohol, so it isn't in my head. There are folks that do use alcohol to preserve this sort of formulation though. I can't tell you exactly how much Liquid Germall Plus you need to " complement " these other preservatives. My gut feeling is around 0.2% in an all water toner type product. If you added oils to make an emulsion, I would use around 0.3% or more (up to 0.5%) depending on the rest of the formulation. But my preference is to get rid of the alcohol altogether and rely on the liquid germall plus and just use it accordingly. Other folks will feel differently I am sure Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 In a message dated 1/29/2003 9:01:02 AM Central Standard Time, AngiesHerbarie@... writes: > I can't tell you exactly how much Liquid Germall Plus you need to > " complement " these other preservatives. My gut feeling is around 0.2% in > an > all water toner type product. If you added oils to make an emulsion, I > would > use around 0.3% or more (up to 0.5%) depending on the rest of the > formulation. But my preference is to get rid of the alcohol altogether and > > rely on the liquid germall plus and just use it accordingly. Other folks > will feel differently I am sure > Angie I'd just gone to both your site and to Sutton's, and had only found the powdered Germall Plus but printed off information on it. My guess after reading that was also at .2% ... However, I am planning to add certain oils at an extremely low amount and with no emulsifier (a shake-and-spray product). Each oil blend will weigh differently, and this product will have, perhaps, 1 tsp. of the oils blend in 8 oz. of the waters blend I'm planning to preserve. Will I need to up it from .2% without the emulsifier? Is it still safe and non-sensitizing up to .5%? - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 In a message dated 1/29/03 7:35:57 AM Pacific Standard Time, 36551@... writes: > I'd just gone to both your site and to Sutton's, and had only found the > powdered Germall Plus but printed off information on it. My guess after > reading that was also at .2% ... However, I am planning to add certain oils > > at an extremely low amount and with no emulsifier (a shake-and-spray > product). Each oil blend will weigh differently, and this product will > have, > perhaps, 1 tsp. of the oils blend in 8 oz. of the waters blend I'm planning > > to preserve. Will I need to up it from .2% without the emulsifier? Is it > still safe and non-sensitizing up to .5%? > Hi , The recommended usage for the Germall Plus powder is 0.05-.2%. Liquid Germall Plus recommended usage is 0.1-0.5%. The typical way to figure the amount of preservative needed is based on the total weight of your formulation---that includes everything. If you don't know the weight of your formulation, then it will be difficult and inaccurate to try to figure out the amount of preservative you need. Everything is based on weight, not fluid volume or dry measure. ISP Sutton recommends using Liquid Germall Plus up to .5% if the total weight of your formulation, although from what you describe that would be more than you need. Based on what you said, I would use .3% Liquid Germall Plus for this type formulation. If you think you will continue to be involved in making these products, you really should consider investing in a good scale...good being defined as something that can measure to 0.1grams. I got my first scale from Itin Scales (at Pat's suggestion) a while back and am still happy with it. But I hear you...I think anyway...you want to know right now how to preserve this shake and spray product? Again, everything is measured by weight. But for folks that are just starting out, I have weighed and measured Liquid Germall Plus to give an APPROXIMATE idea of what you need. Try reading this formula: <A HREF= " http://www.theherbarie.com/herbarie-formulary.html#orangecleaner " > http://www.theherbarie.com/herbarie-formulary.html#orangecleaner</A> You will still have to do some math to figure out how much you need, but this may help. Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 The recommended usage for the Germall Plus powder is 0.05-.2% ... Liquid Germall Plus recommended usage is 0.1-0.5% ... The typical way to figure the amount of preservative needed is based on the total weight of your formulation---that includes everything. If you don't know the weight of your formulation, then it will be difficult and inaccurate to try to figure out the amount of preservative you need. Everything is based on weight, not fluid volume or dry measure. Understood. I won't have weights until I start blending and actually weighing, especially the oils parts. Once I have weights of each ingredient, I can formulate the proper labeling and, once I have weight of finished blends, I can figure percentages of preservative to add, right?. ISP Sutton recommends using Liquid Germall Plus up to .5% of the total weight of your formulation, although from what you describe that would be more than you need. Based on what you said, I would use .3% Liquid Germall Plus for this type formulation. That is what I needed from your experience. So, to make sure I have this correct, if I have 100 oz. weight of a finished non-preserved blend, then I take the 100 oz. x .003, then add that amount (.3 oz. in that case) to the 100 oz. If you think you will continue to be involved in making these products, you really should consider investing in a good scale...good being defined as something that can measure to 0.1grams. I got my first scale from Itin Scales (at Pat's suggestion) a while back and am still happy with it. But I hear you...I think anyway...you want to know right now how to preserve this shake and spray product? ... for folks that are just starting out, I have weighed and measured Liquid Germall Plus to give an APPROXIMATE idea of what you need. Try reading this formula: <A HREF= " http://www.theherbarie.com/herbarie-formulary.html#orangecleaner " > http://www.theherbarie.com/herbarie-formulary.html#orangecleaner</A> You will still have to do some math to figure out how much you need, but this may help. Angie I will study that a little more so I can quit bugging you. I tend to think easier in percentages, then do the math with a spreadsheet, but understand what you're showing me. My soaping scale measures to .1 oz ... thought that was great at the time I'll need to get one that goes down to ..1 grams. Thank you, again, you're a doll. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 In a message dated 1/29/03 4:43:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, 36551@... writes: > Understood. I won't have weights until I start blending and actually > weighing, especially the oils parts. Once I have weights of each > ingredient, > I can formulate the proper labeling and, once I have weight of finished > blends, I can figure percentages of preservative to add, right?. Exactly. But it is sooo much easier to set up your formula first in percentages and THEN figure out your quantities. > > ISP Sutton recommends using Liquid Germall Plus up to .5% of the total > weight > of your formulation, although from what you describe that would be more > than > you need. Based on what you said, I would use .3% Liquid Germall Plus for > this type formulation. > That is what I needed from your experience. So, to make sure I have > this correct, if I have 100 oz. weight of a finished non-preserved blend, > then I take the 100 oz. x .003, then add that amount (.3 oz. in that case) > to > the 100 oz. Basically. But the correct way to write a formula will include everything. For example: Shea Butter 2% Jojoba Oil 10% Emulsifying Wax NF 4% Glycerin 2% Water 81.7% Liquid Germall Plus 0.3% Total: 100% Actually, the formula will usually be separated into Part A, Part B and so on...to separate out the various phases or steps in the whole procedure. But anyway, once you have your formula figured out in percentages, you then figure out the quantity you wish to make...say 500 grams. So, 0.3% of the total 500 grams is 1.5grams. > > If you think you will continue to be involved in making these products, you > > really should consider investing in a good scale...good being defined as > something that can measure to 0.1grams. I got my first scale from Itin > Scales (at Pat's suggestion) a while back and am still happy with it. > But I hear you...I think anyway...you want to know right now how to > preserve > this shake and spray product? ... for folks that are just starting out, I > have weighed and measured Liquid Germall Plus to give an APPROXIMATE idea > of > what you need. Try reading this formula: <A HREF= " http://www.theherbarie.com/herbarie-formulary.html#orangecleaner " > > http://www.theherbarie.com/herbarie-formulary.html#orangecleaner</A> You will > still have to do some math to figure out how much you need, but this may > help. > > I will study that a little more so I can quit bugging you. I tend to > think easier in percentages, then do the math with a spreadsheet, but > understand what you're showing me. My soaping scale measures to .1 oz ... > thought that was great at the time I'll need to get one that goes down > to > .1 grams. You aren't being buggie Well, scrap the idea of looking at that formula! I set that up for someone who only wants to use tsp, tbs, cups, etc. If you can do percentages, math, and spreadsheets, then you are well on your way! So, the next step may be to make the scale purchase....they aren't cheap...around $230. or so, but I think you can find them for a bit less online. But in making cosmetics, scales are invaluable....I'm really fond of my scales > Thank you, again, you're a doll. Well, I hope I have helped a bit...people certainly help me and if I can return the favor, I'm pleased Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 <<<<I'll need to get one that goes down to ..1 grams. Thank you, again, you're a doll. - >>> You might look here for some very affordable ones: http://www.oldwillknott.com Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc http://www.hpsoapbook.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 In a message dated 1/29/2003 7:07:15 PM Central Standard Time, AngiesHerbarie@... writes: > it is sooo much easier to set up your formula first in percentages and THEN > figure out your quantities ... Based on what you said, I would use .3% > Liquid Germall Plus for this type formulation ... the correct way to write > a formula will include everything. For example: > Shea Butter 2% > Jojoba Oil 10% > Emulsifying Wax NF 4% > Glycerin 2% > Water 81.7% > Liquid Germall Plus 0.3% > > Total: 100% > > Actually, the formula will usually be separated into Part A, Part B and so > on...to separate out the various phases or steps in the whole procedure. > But > anyway, once you have your formula figured out in percentages, you then > figure out the quantity you wish to make...say 500 grams. So, 0.3% of the > total 500 grams is 1.5grams. OOOHHHH ... Now I get it ... > You aren't being buggie ... If you can do percentages, math, and > spreadsheets, then you are well on your way! So, the next step may be to > make the scale purchase....they aren't cheap...But in making cosmetics, > scales are invaluable....I'm really fond of my scales > > ... I hope I have helped a bit...people certainly help me and if I can > return the favor, I'm pleased > > Angie > The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care > Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality > at Wholesale Prices...visit us at <A HREF= " http://www.theherbarie.com " >http://www.theherbarie.com</A> YOU HAVE HELPED, A LOT !!! I also hope to return similar favors someday. I don't picture myself being the formulator you and so many others are, but definitely always want to learn more about and help others work with managing their skin conditions such as acne (not curing, medicating, or treating, just managing in non-drug fashion that which we can do for ourselves), moisturization and emollience, handmade soaps as well as non-soap non-surfactent cleansing, and scalp and hair care. I read with most interest all sorts of pros and cons in the surfactent vs soap-based shampoos and various types of hair conditioning. Though I'm a definite convert to the soap based shampoos, I truly can understand many of the factors that are involved in such a choice for oneself. That understanding along with the factual information we get here will help in my future marketing plans ... These planned shake and spray products should appeal to the people who, like me, want to minimize synthetics or irritants as much as possible, but never at the risk of injury. They will be wonderful moisturizing toners IMO, one for each skin type. I use the dimestore witch hazel with oils in it now, and my sis - my most stubborn lab rat - also loves using it ... which is a very good sign, as she's a challenge test of the other sort, getting her to try something that better addresses her skin needs than what she'd previously used and hoping she likes it enough to totally switch over Once I can do that with her and a few other lab rats with good success, it's on to the serious public effort. I'll be back at that time (promise) if I can't locate a challenge testing lab. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Thanks, Dee ... I'll check them out. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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