Guest guest Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 In a message dated 2/19/03 6:32:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, cathy2@... writes: > and the percentage of sodium cocoyl isethionate??? > Without going to find my little formula book, I think I used around 10-12% SCI and around 8% disodium laureth sulfosuccinate. Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 and the percentage of sodium cocoyl isethionate??? > > Angie.. > > > > How do you use the noodles? (I have the prill and its pretty similar I'd > > think) Do you dissolve it in your water phase? > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Hi , > The other surfactants that I have used in combo with the SCI noodles are > liquid. I typically heat the surfactants together with a small portion of > the water. The noodles must be heated to around 175F or so to melt. Then I > add the remainder of the water and other heat tolerant ingredients. > Angie > The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care > Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality > at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Hello Just thought I would jump in on this discussion since I have been making bath bombs with above ingredient and have found the lather/small bubbles to last a very long time half hour and longer and after agitating the water a bit it lathers back up again. , can I ask at what percentage you use the sodium cocoyl isethionate in your product? I just love the feel of this product. Also can you tell me where to find the sodium lauryl sulfoacetate? Thanks Re: sodium cocoyl isethionate Angie...I surely don't know about the foam differences in shampoos..but I can tell you...sodium lauryl sulfoacetate bubbles about 10 times as much as sodium cocoyl isethionate. There is an amazing difference. I spoke to a chemist at Finetex who sells sodium cocoyl isethionate and he told me it was more of a lather product and not much for bubbles. I agree with him. The bubbles in my new and improved bubble bars/bombs last about 1 hour...while the gentle foam of the Jordapon Prill, lasted about 7 minutes. However..the feel of the sodium cocoyl isethionate is nicer and silkier. It was a trade off for me..I add a good dollop of sulphanated castor oil to my bombs and that kind of adds emoliency to the product. Sutton > > Angie > > I've never tried it in my shampoo or body wash but I was using it > > regularily > > in my bath bombs...I loved the silky feeling of the stuff. I've repalce it > > now with sodium lauryl sulfoacetate as it bubbles better > > , > You owe it to yourself to try the sodium cocoyl isethionate in your > shampoo/body wash. I made a creamy conditioning shampoo using it along with > disodium laureth sulfosuccinate and some of my other stuff. It's quite > nice. Funny, I considered ordering the sodium lauryl sulfoacetate, but it > didn't seem to foam all that well? > Angie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 I think Angie has the sodium cocoyl isethionate in stock and is about to add it to her site... let us all know, Angie! Andree www.essentialsoapsinc.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 In a message dated 2/20/03 4:39:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, oakridge@... writes: > Angie needs a few more hours in the day As my husband used to tell me, > I didn't do anything between midnight and 5am except sleep. These days, > 4am finds me up working...maybe not very fast, but working > Hi Jan, Well, either that or those clones But yes, I do have the sodium cocoyl isethionate noodles that need to go on the site. I have this thing about needing to experiment with products before I actually sell them, so I've done a bit of that and now I am ready....just got to get it there. If anyone wants to purchase them before I get them on the site, just email me privately. I actually have a whole cast of characters waiting to go on stage LOL! The SCI noodles make a creamy white shampoo/body wash. These noodles can be used to make a solid bar or a thick, creamy product that would go into a jar. I've been thinking about how it could be used from a jar...any ideas?? Since I am not into the foamy scrubs, I haven't tried it that way, but think it would probably work. I've made a shampoo/body wash.....and folks, I'll be honest, I use the same formula for both hair and skin. Here it is: SCI noodles 10% disodium laureth sulfosuccinate 6.7% GuarSilk 0.5% Hydrolyzed Wheat 2% dl panthenol 1% Germall Plus Liquid 0.3% distilled water 79.5% To this I added a few drops of peppermint and rosemary eo. This is very thick and would work well in a tube or upside down bottles. The lather is very dense, very thick foam and feels soft and luxurious to me. The SCI noodles are 80% active and will be very effective foamer at a pretty low percentage. The toxicology data on this product is good and the irritation potential is low according to testing that was conducted by an independent lab. I decided on the noodles, rather than the powdered form, because I don't like handling powders without a respirator....and I don't want to use a respirator. The downside is that the noodles are a bit trickier to " melt " . But once you get the feel for it, it isn't difficult. I would love to experiment more with this product, as I feel that it has alot of potential, but I have moved on to emulsifiers/creams and leave in hair conditioners Hope this helps! Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 In a message dated 2/20/03 3:36:35 AM Pacific Standard Time, oakridge@... writes: > OK ladies, please don't do this to me! How can I possibly fit this into my > overcrowded schedule? And how can I not with all these descriptions of > silky, long lasing bubbles? I don't even make bath bombs anymore, now > you've got me drooling!! > Hi Jan and All, I quit making those little bath bombs years ago!! Not enough " wave action " for me LOL!! I much prefer silky, soft baths without bubbles......or nice, fresh showers with luxurious foam.....or using an exfoliating, conditioning scrub as Pat was describing. Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Hi I've tried the new Lauryl amido propyl dimethylamine betaine in bath bombs. On it's own the foam disappears after a few minutes. . I requested some formula's from the manufacturer of the LPB. They say that the addition of surfactants interferes with the rate of carbon dioxide and this can be detrimental to foam production. To over come this they recommend to make two batches of the bath bomb mixture, one with surfactant, one without. You then have to either layer the mixtures into the moulds or add randomly. Hope I'm explaining this properly! As the surfactant I'm using is a secondary one they recommend using one of the primary ones such as SLS needles or sulfoacetates for better foam. The LPB detoxifies the SLS so you end up a very mild product. The recommended usage level is 3% SLS to 2% LPB and this gives plenty of foam but it is more of a Guinness like foam. There is a very good paper describing most of the surfactants available but I don't have the link. The title is " Formulators, it is time to widen your horizons. Paper given before the society of Cosmetic Scientists, Chepstow, 2000 " It should come up under a search in the search engines. It's not up to date obviously with the new ones on the market but gives a good summary of what each are designed for. There is just so many of them! They say the isethionate is for use in syndets and liquid skin cleansing products so your chemist is right, I don't think it would be good choice for bath bombs. Out of interest what level of sulfoacetate are you using in the bath bombs? Also, when you used the prill form did you have problems coloring this? If I use the LPB and SLS needles it looks like white spots throughout the bomb. The manufacturers say you can color the surfactant before adding it to the mix so this would solve this but just wondered how the prill form looked in the finished product. Pam Angie...I surely don't know about the foam differences in shampoos..but I can tell you...sodium lauryl sulfoacetate bubbles about 10 times as much as sodium cocoyl isethionate. There is an amazing difference. I spoke to a chemist at Finetex who sells sodium cocoyl isethionate and he told me it was more of a lather product and not much for bubbles. I agree with him. The bubbles in my new and improved bubble bars/bombs last about 1 hour...while the gentle foam of the Jordapon Prill, lasted about 7 minutes. However..the feel of the sodium cocoyl isethionate is nicer and silkier. It was a trade off for me..I add a good dollop of sulphanated castor oil to my bombs and that kind of adds emoliency to the product. Sutton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 >>And your description of the feel being silky is accurate in my opinion too. Since I'm not really a fan of bubble baths, I think I will stick with the SCI for the body wash/shampoo. OK ladies, please don't do this to me! How can I possibly fit this into my overcrowded schedule? And how can I not with all these descriptions of silky, long lasing bubbles? I don't even make bath bombs anymore, now you've got me drooling!! But I do make body wash, So...who's making it, give up the details, where can I get my hot little hands on some???? Jan Flood oakridge@... www.oakridgefarm.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 >>let us all know, Angie! Angie needs a few more hours in the day As my husband used to tell me, I didn't do anything between midnight and 5am except sleep. These days, 4am finds me up working...maybe not very fast, but working Jan Flood oakridge@... www.oakridgefarm.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Hi I use both products at around 30%. Sodium lauryl sulfoacete is made by Stepan and is available from The Chemistry Store. (I'm sure there are other places as well) > > Just thought I would jump in on this discussion since I have been making > bath bombs with above ingredient and have found the lather/small bubbles to > last a very long time half hour and longer and after agitating the water a > bit it lathers back up again. , can I ask at what percentage you use > the sodium cocoyl isethionate in your product? I just love the feel of this > product. Also can you tell me where to find the sodium lauryl sulfoacetate? > > Thanks > > > > > > Re: sodium cocoyl isethionate > > > Angie...I surely don't know about the foam differences in shampoos..but I > can tell you...sodium lauryl sulfoacetate bubbles about 10 times as much > as > sodium cocoyl isethionate. There is an amazing difference. I spoke to a > chemist at Finetex who sells sodium cocoyl isethionate and he told me it > was > more of a lather product and not much for bubbles. I agree with him. The > bubbles in my new and improved bubble bars/bombs last about 1 hour...while > the gentle foam of the Jordapon Prill, lasted about 7 minutes. > However..the > feel of the sodium cocoyl isethionate is nicer and silkier. It was a trade > off for me..I add a good dollop of sulphanated castor oil to my bombs and > that kind of adds emoliency to the product. > > Sutton > > > Angie > > > I've never tried it in my shampoo or body wash but I was using it > > > regularily > > > in my bath bombs...I loved the silky feeling of the stuff. I've > repalce > it > > > now with sodium lauryl sulfoacetate as it bubbles better > > > > , > > You owe it to yourself to try the sodium cocoyl isethionate in your > > shampoo/body wash. I made a creamy conditioning shampoo using it along > with > > disodium laureth sulfosuccinate and some of my other stuff. It's quite > > nice. Funny, I considered ordering the sodium lauryl sulfoacetate, but > it > > didn't seem to foam all that well? > > Angie > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Lets see if I can do this ....lol..(I'm the pits at c/p with answers) I requested some formula's from the manufacturer of the LPB. They say that the addition of surfactants interferes with the rate of carbon dioxide and this can be detrimental to foam production. To over come this they recommend to make two batches of the bath bomb mixture, one with surfactant, one without. You then have to either layer the mixtures into the moulds or add randomly. Hope I'm explaining this properly! As the surfactant I'm using is a secondary one they recommend using one of the primary ones such as SLS needles or sulfoacetates for better foam. The LPB detoxifies the SLS so you end up a very mild product. The recommended usage level is 3% SLS to 2% LPB and this gives plenty of foam but it is more of a Guinness like foam. This sounds like too much work to me. I use around 30% sodium lauryl sulfoacetete mixed with sodium bicarb + salt + TRO + powdered honey + liquid honey. I use Jens labcolours for colour and EO's for scent. I dump it all into my cosmetic relegated cuisenart and whir the daylights out of it, then press into disk shaped mould and tap out to dry. There is a very good paper describing most of the surfactants available but I don't have the link. The title is " Formulators, it is time to widen your horizons. Paper given before the society of Cosmetic Scientists, Chepstow, 2000 " It should come up under a search in the search engines. It's not up to date obviously with the new ones on the market but gives a good summary of what each are designed for. There is just so many of them! They say the isethionate is for use in syndets and liquid skin cleansing products so your chemist is right, I don't think it would be good choice for bath bombs. Right..the sodium cocoyl isethionate prill isn't nearly as good for bubbles. It foams nicely and feels good..but doesn't last long enough. I will do a search for that paper..thanks...I know there are tonnes of surfactants out there..and gradually I am filling up my kitchen soap cupboards with samples of them. Out of interest what level of sulfoacetate are you using in the bath bombs? Also, when you used the prill form did you have problems coloring this? If I use the LPB and SLS needles it looks like white spots throughout the bomb. The manufacturers say you can color the surfactant before adding it to the mix so this would solve this but just wondered how the prill form looked in the finished product. As I said above..I use close to 30% sodium lauryl sulfoacetate..its safe up to about 65% (according to manufacturer) I colour it with Labcolours...as I did the prill. It coloured fine..but keep in mind I'm using a food processor which makes it pretty easy to mix.. When I've mixed them by hand I mixed the colour and eo with a small amount of the salt to begin with, then incorporated that with the rest.I never found white dots in mine at all. I use the prill in my salt scrubs, and I can see the prill as lighter coloured tiny dots in the gel. Hope that answers your questions! Sutton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Up to my armpits today in all this good stuff!! Trying to fight off the alligators...might find a few minutes to play with some new stuff I got but, sob, I don't have any SCI. I swear, this is like clothes -- gotta keep changing the fashions to keep those broads buying. LOL Jan Flood oakridge@... www.oakridgefarm.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2003 Report Share Posted February 21, 2003 Hi Thanks for taking time out to answer my email. Yes, I thought the idea of adding the surfactant to only a portion too hard work too and don't know if it work in practice. It would be hard to keep the mixture from drying out as it would take longest to fill the moulds. Still, it would be interesting to experiment to see if by using their method you could use less surfactant and achieve the same foam quality. Will have to start experimenting:-) Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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