Re: pain

[Guest guest]

A wise woman wrote:

As far as pain tolerance, the latest example of not prepared for pain or

not wanting to be prepared was last week. We had a 20ish primip in for

induction. One cytotec vaginally and then up walking. Was barely ctxing

while walking, but when I asked her how she was doing she said in a whiney

voice, " I told them I would get grumpy when I felt pain, and I'm getting a

little grumpy now " . And she acted like she wanted me to fix that, at closed,

thick and high. These are the people that worry me, for the long run.

Hi Debbie -

I would say with much conviction that this woman in question was not

prepared, whether she wanted to be or not, she just plain wasn't. And yes,

I know what you mean, when they are closed, thick and high, and vocalizing

their pain that early on, those do worry me as well.

With that said, I think I want to vent a bit:) You know what really burns

my ass? (pardon my language) Are those mothers that hire me, and those who

I think I am educating, as in they actually act like they are understanding

and getting what I am teaching them and their partner, and who go through

CBE classes, and after speaking to their CBE, their instructor seems to

think they have gotten it as well, but when it comes to the actual hard

work, they like your 20ish pirmip say those very same things, or actually

yell at me sometimes and say, " Marna why didn't you tell me it was going to

be like this!!! "

I am infamous I think amongst my clients for actually speaking up and

telling them to " check their attitudes " (it goes for the birth partner as

well) at the door when they come to the care facility of their choice and

have their baby. We are there to do some important work, not futz about who

left the cap off the toothpaste. (you'd be amazed at how many couples are

fighting over petty stuff as they come to the hospital, then again, maybe

it's not so surprising because some couples are still in denial that they

are actually becoming parents, even as labor begins - ha! )

Thanks for the insight!

Marna

[Guest guest]

: After sending my response, I couldn't help but think more about the source of your pain and, being a physician/psychiatrist who has treated several patients with your condition, wonder if you've had a trial of amitriptyline at bedtime. It seems to help enhance nighttime connective tissue repair and, thus, reduce next day global pain. I hope you'll also be able to tweak the TLC plan with the help of et al to get lasting relief. Only others with pain know what a pain pain can be.

Denver

RE: pain

Last year, while doing some NF training with Sue Othmer, she suggested training @ T3/T4 with the usual wide inhibits 2-13 and 14-30 and SMR reward somewhere around 13-15. I've found once or twice weekly treatments help with the hyperarousal that seems to be associated with chronic pain. This, in itself, does reduce the subjective experience of pain.

Denver

From: "kneurotyk" <kneurotyk>Reply-To: braintrainer To: braintrainer Subject: painDate: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:50:25 -0000

I have been training for about 3 weeks using a TLC training plan. I've noticed some nice effects, but one troubling change is that pain levels have increased, specifically joints (hands, feet) and, more globally, connective tissue throughout the body (dx lupus and fibromylagia). Does anyone have any general or specific principles to consider when it comes to working with pain? Any input would be much appreciated.

[Guest guest]

, Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. I have been using Pete's protocols to address what he calls "hot temporals." I have tried a couple of the other suggested protocols as well. None of them has really helped with the pain, and a couple of them seem to have intensified it. I wish I knew how to tweak them but I am at a loss as to what direction to be heading. In the past I have tried a small dose of amitriptyline at night, though I'm not currently prescribed that. I do take other medication for sleep, hoping the nighttime repair you mention can be facilitated. My excellent rheumatologist recommends a 10-day course of neomycin every couple of months because there is some kind of gut connection to referred / generalized pain. At my last appointment with him we discussed neurofeedback and were thinking of doing a sham study

beginning this summer, but with the results I am getting for myself I am not sure it is worth it, even though he has wonderful university/research connections and an extremely motivated subject base. Thanks again. gary martin wrote: : After sending my response, I couldn't help but think more about the source of your pain and, being a

physician/psychiatrist who has treated several patients with your condition, wonder if you've had a trial of amitriptyline at bedtime. It seems to help enhance nighttime connective tissue repair and, thus, reduce next day global pain. I hope you'll also be able to tweak the TLC plan with the help of et al to get lasting relief. Only others with pain know what a pain pain can be. Denver RE: pain Last year, while doing some NF training with Sue Othmer, she suggested training @ T3/T4 with the usual wide inhibits 2-13 and 14-30 and SMR reward somewhere around 13-15. I've found once or twice weekly treatments help with the hyperarousal that seems to be associated with chronic pain. This, in itself, does reduce the subjective experience of pain. Denver From: "kneurotyk" <kneurotyk>Reply-To: braintrainer To: braintrainer Subject: painDate: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:50:25 -0000 I have been training for about 3 weeks using a TLC training plan. I've noticed some nice effects, but one troubling change is that pain levels have increased, specifically joints (hands, feet) and, more globally, connective tissue throughout the body (dx lupus and fibromylagia). Does anyone have any general or specific principles to consider when it comes to working with pain? Any input would be much appreciated.

Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

,

Have you tried using CES machine at the .5 setting put out by either

Alpha Stim or Health Directions. This has really helped most,if not

all, of my patients with chronic pain. Also, have you

also tried using hypnosis? Prior to the advent of neurofeedback and

biofeedback, hypnosis has been extremely effective in pain control

and pain management.

You can check out some great hypnosis scripts in the Handbook of Hypnotic

Suggestions and Metaphors. I've used it with my cancer

patients for severe chronic pain. Four of my scripts are in this

book.

For sleep, try the CES machine alone with Bach Flowers

Sleep. Many of my patient have found the results

outstanding. Neither of these two methods has any side effect

during or after and neither will interfere with any

medication. Along with suggested provided on

Neurofeedback protocols, you might want to also consider Alpha/theta

training to help with restorative sleep. Lastly, either

Energy Psychology or the Abundance Release Method can release some of the

emotional components.

I've been trained in a variety of techniques and use as many as needed,

especially with chronic pain patients, resulting in excellent

satisfaction. Most, if not all, of my chronic pain

patients come in with 10 different medications and we eventually get them

totally off or down to 1-2 meds using the above mentioned techniques and

protocols.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Diane

At 10:36 PM 11/04/2006, you wrote:

,

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response.

I have been using Pete's protocols to address what he calls " hot

temporals. " I have tried a couple of the other suggested

protocols as well. None of them has really helped with the pain,

and a couple of them seem to have intensified it. I wish I knew how

to tweak them but I am at a loss as to what direction to be heading.

In the past I have tried a small dose of amitriptyline at night, though

I'm not currently prescribed that. I do take other medication for

sleep, hoping the nighttime repair you mention can be facilitated.

My excellent rheumatologist recommends a 10-day course of neomycin every

couple of months because there is some kind of gut connection to referred

/ generalized pain. At my last appointment with him we discussed

neurofeedback and were thinking of doing a sham study beginning this

summer, but with the results I am getting for myself I am not sure it is

worth it, even though he has wonderful university/research connections

and an extremely motivated subject base.

Thanks again.

gary martin wrote:

: After sending my response, I couldn't help but think more about

the source of your pain and, being a physician/psychiatrist who has

treated several patients with your condition, wonder if you've had a

trial of amitriptyline at bedtime. It seems to help enhance nighttime

connective tissue repair and, thus, reduce next day global pain. I hope

you'll also be able to tweak the TLC plan with the help of et al to

get lasting relief. Only others with pain know what a pain pain can

be.

Denver

pain

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:50:25 -0000

I have been training for about 3 weeks using a TLC training plan.

I've noticed some nice effects, but one troubling change is that pain

levels have increased, specifically joints (hands, feet) and, more

globally, connective tissue throughout the body (dx lupus and

fibromylagia).

Does anyone have any general or specific principles to consider when

it comes to working with pain? Any input would be much

appreciated.

Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap

PC-to-Phone call rates.

Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D.

P.O. Box 148

town, MA 01833

Toll Free in US

Direct Dial

For information on how to obtain

" Coping with Mild Traumatic Brain Injury:

A Guide to Living with the Challenges Associated with Concussion/

Brain Injury "

Click the link below

<http://

www.drdiane.com

>

Neuroband:

For the Professional and Home User of

Neurofeedback equipment:

Clink the link below

http://www.drdiane.com/neuroband_order.html

Confidentiality:

This electronic message (E-mail) and any files

attached hereto contain confidential, legally

privileged and protected by copyright. If you

are not the intended recipient, dissemination or copying of this

E-mail is prohibited. If you have received this in error,

please notify the sender by telephone or replying by

E-mail to info@..., then delete the E-mail completely from your

system.

This E-mail and any attachments have been scanned for viruses, but it is

the responsibility of the recipient to conduct their own security

measures and no responsibility is accepted by Dr. Diane Stoler,

Ed,D. , d/b/a -Dr. Diane and/or Lafayette Counseling Center for loss or

damage from receipt or use of this E-mail.

No responsibility is accepted by Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D.,

d/b/a-Dr. Diane and/or Lafayette Counseling Center for personal E-mails,

or E-mails unconnected with Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D, patients' or

client business.

Dr. Diane ~

Catalyst for Change® - A neuropsychologist who works with

individuals and organizations worldwide, to help them find Solutions

and Resources® to overcome life’s challenges and reach their

goals.

[Guest guest]

CES means cranial electrostimulation. One of the most famous machine is the Alpha Stim 100. By means of earclips you induce microcurrent (microvolts, 0.5 or 100) into the brain. The effect is nearly immediate pain relief (this is a speciality of alpha stim 100) because your consciousness is changed by a trance induction (staying awake). All types trance induction (e.g. alpha or alpha theta training) reduce pain and reduce memory of pain.

Uwe

[Guest guest]

:

I got into NF at the suggestion of some friends to help with my chronic pain problem. I finally had to resort to having a nerve root stimulator implanted, but I still use NF and HRV to help with the residual pain and end-of-the-day tension that comes with spending a day in pain. Maybe if we keep in touch from time to time we can help each other with new ideas that come along.

Best of luck to you,

RE: pain

Last year, while doing some NF training with Sue Othmer, she suggested training @ T3/T4 with the usual wide inhibits 2-13 and 14-30 and SMR reward somewhere around 13-15. I've found once or twice weekly treatments help with the hyperarousal that seems to be associated with chronic pain. This, in itself, does reduce the subjective experience of pain.

Denver

From: "kneurotyk" <kneurotyk>Reply-To: braintrainer To: braintrainer Subject: painDate: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:50:25 -0000

I have been training for about 3 weeks using a TLC training plan. I've noticed some nice effects, but one troubling change is that pain levels have increased, specifically joints (hands, feet) and, more globally, connective tissue throughout the body (dx lupus and fibromylagia). Does anyone have any general or specific principles to consider when it comes to working with pain? Any input would be much appreciated.

Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

Diane:

What is a CES machine? What does it do that helps?

pain

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:50:25 -0000

I have been training for about 3 weeks using a TLC training plan.

I've noticed some nice effects, but one troubling change is that pain

levels have increased, specifically joints (hands, feet) and, more

globally, connective tissue throughout the body (dx lupus and

fibromylagia).

Does anyone have any general or specific principles to consider when

it comes to working with pain? Any input would be much appreciated.

Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates.

Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D. P.O. Box 148town, MA 01833Toll Free in US Direct Dial For information on how to obtain " Coping with Mild Traumatic Brain Injury: A Guide to Living with the Challenges Associated with Concussion/ Brain Injury" Click the link below <http:// www.drdiane.com >Neuroband: For the Professional and Home User of Neurofeedback equipment: Clink the link belowhttp://www.drdiane.com/neuroband_order.htmlConfidentiality: This electronic message (E-mail) and any files attached hereto contain confidential, legally privileged and protected by copyright. If you are not the intended recipient, dissemination or copying of this E-mail is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please notify the sender by telephone or replying by E-mail to infodrdiane, then delete the E-mail completely from your system. This E-mail and any attachments have been scanned for viruses, but it is the responsibility of the recipient to conduct their own security measures and no responsibility is accepted by Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed,D. , d/b/a -Dr. Diane and/or Lafayette Counseling Center for loss or damage from receipt or use of this E-mail. No responsibility is accepted by Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D., d/b/a-Dr. Diane and/or Lafayette Counseling Center for personal E-mails, or E-mails unconnected with Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D, patients' or client business.Dr. Diane ~ Catalyst for Change® - A neuropsychologist who works with individuals and organizations worldwide, to help them find Solutions and Resources® to overcome life’s challenges and reach their goals.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

CES =cranial electrostimulation.

http://www.elixa.com/estim/CES.htm This instrument is FDA

approved medical device for pain management. It has

been around for over 50 years with substantial clinical data to support

it.

On the same site.

http://www.elixa.com/estim/CES%20Ultra.htm

Here's alpha stims site.

http://alpha-stim.com/

Really, works.

Diane

At 03:00 AM 11/05/2006, you wrote:

Diane:

What is a CES machine? What does it do that helps?

pain

Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:50:25 -0000

I have been training for about 3 weeks using a TLC training plan. I've noticed some nice effects, but one troubling change is that pain levels have increased, specifically joints (hands, feet) and, more globally, connective tissue throughout the body (dx lupus and fibromylagia).

Does anyone have any general or specific principles to consider when it comes to working with pain? Any input would be much

appreciated.

Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap

PC-to-Phone call rates.

Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D.

P.O. Box 148

town, MA 01833

Toll Free in US

Direct Dial

For information on how to obtain

" Coping with Mild Traumatic Brain Injury:

A Guide to Living with the Challenges Associated with

Concussion/ Brain Injury "

Click the link below

<http://

www.drdiane.com

>

Neuroband:

For the Professional and Home User of

Neurofeedback equipment:

Clink the link below

http://www.drdiane.com/neuroband_order.html

Confidentiality:

This electronic message (E-mail) and any files

attached hereto contain confidential, legally

privileged and protected by copyright. If you

are not the intended recipient, dissemination or copying of this

E-mail is prohibited. If you have received this in error,

please notify the sender by telephone or replying by

E-mail to info@..., then delete the E-mail completely from your

system..

This E-mail and any attachments have been scanned for viruses, but it

is the responsibility of the recipient to conduct their own security

measures and no responsibility is accepted by Dr. Diane Stoler,

Ed,D. , d/b/a -Dr. Diane and/or Lafayette Counseling Center for loss or

damage from receipt or use of this E-mail.

No responsibility is accepted by Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D.,

d/b/a-Dr. Diane and/or Lafayette Counseling Center for personal E-mails,

or E-mails unconnected with Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D, patients' or

client business.

Dr. Diane ~ Catalyst

for Change® - A neuropsychologist who works with individuals and

organizations worldwide, to help them find Solutions and Resources®

to overcome life’s challenges and reach their goals.

[Guest guest]

Diane:

Thanks for the information. I'll look into it.

pain Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:50:25 -0000

I have been training for about 3 weeks using a TLC training plan. I've noticed some nice effects, but one troubling change is that pain levels have increased, specifically joints (hands, feet) and, more globally, connective tissue throughout the body (dx lupus and fibromylagia).

Does anyone have any general or specific principles to consider when it comes to working with pain? Any input would be much appreciated.

Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates.

Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D.

P.O. Box 148

town, MA 01833

Toll Free in US

Direct Dial

For information on how to obtain

" Coping with Mild Traumatic Brain Injury:

A Guide to Living with the Challenges Associated with Concussion/ Brain Injury"

Click the link below

<http:// www.drdiane.com >

Neuroband: For the Professional and Home User of Neurofeedback equipment:

Clink the link below

http://www.drdiane.com/neuroband_order.html

Confidentiality:

This electronic message (E-mail) and any files attached hereto contain confidential, legally privileged and protected by copyright. If you are not the intended recipient, dissemination or copying of this E-mail is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please notify the sender by telephone or replying by E-mail to infodrdiane, then delete the E-mail completely from your system..

This E-mail and any attachments have been scanned for viruses, but it is the responsibility of the recipient to conduct their own security measures and no responsibility is accepted by Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed,D. , d/b/a -Dr. Diane and/or Lafayette Counseling Center for loss or damage from receipt or use of this E-mail.

No responsibility is accepted by Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D., d/b/a-Dr. Diane and/or Lafayette Counseling Center for personal E-mails, or E-mails unconnected with Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D, patients' or client business.

Dr. Diane ~ Catalyst for Change® - A neuropsychologist who works with individuals and organizations worldwide, to help them find Solutions and Resources® to overcome life’s challenges and reach their goals.

[Guest guest]

Uwe

Thanks for the information. I'll look into it.

Re: pain

CES means cranial electrostimulation. One of the most famous machine is the Alpha Stim 100. By means of earclips you induce microcurrent (microvolts, 0.5 or 100) into the brain. The effect is nearly immediate pain relief (this is a speciality of alpha stim 100) because your consciousness is changed by a trance induction (staying awake). All types trance induction (e.g. alpha or alpha theta training) reduce pain and reduce memory of pain.Uwe

[Guest guest]

For what it's worth, I am an Alpha-Stim distributor. I imagine several other people on this list are, too. I'm able to give a professional discount to anyone on this list who is interested in purchasing a unit. For more information, you can go to pathwayswc.com. Lynn Rutherford, MA, LPC Pathways Wellness Center Austin, Texasgary martin wrote: Uwe Thanks for the information. I'll look into it. Re: pain CES means cranial electrostimulation. One of the most famous machine is the Alpha Stim 100. By means of earclips you induce microcurrent (microvolts, 0.5 or

100) into the brain. The effect is nearly immediate pain relief (this is a speciality of alpha stim 100) because your consciousness is changed by a trance induction (staying awake). All types trance induction (e.g. alpha or alpha theta training) reduce pain and reduce memory of pain.Uwe

[Guest guest]

Hi Diane, Thank you for your thoughtful (and thorough!) response. I have used hypnosis (and many other techniques) that are quite useful in the moment but do not generalize well. Bach Flower Remedies have not been helpful for this particular issue. I have not tried CES. How would you say it differs from NFB? Somewhere I seemed to have picked up the wrong impression about NFB being efficacious for chronic pain. Thanks, "Diane Stoler, Ed.D." wrote: ,Have you tried using CES machine at the .5 setting put out by either Alpha Stim or Health Directions. This has really helped most,if not all, of my patients with chronic pain. Also, have you also tried using hypnosis? Prior to the advent of neurofeedback and biofeedback, hypnosis has been extremely effective in pain control and pain management. You can check out some great hypnosis scripts in the Handbook of Hypnotic Suggestions and Metaphors. I've used it with my cancer patients for severe chronic pain. Four of my scripts are in this book. For sleep, try the CES machine alone with Bach Flowers Sleep. Many of my patient have found the results

outstanding. Neither of these two methods has any side effect during or after and neither will interfere with any medication. Along with suggested provided on Neurofeedback protocols, you might want to also consider Alpha/theta training to help with restorative sleep. Lastly, either Energy Psychology or the Abundance Release Method can release some of the emotional components. I've been trained in a variety of techniques and use as many as needed, especially with chronic pain patients, resulting in excellent satisfaction. Most, if not all, of my chronic pain patients come in with 10 different medications and we eventually get them totally off or down to 1-2 meds using the above mentioned techniques and protocols. Hope this helps.Best Regards,DianeAt 10:36 PM 11/04/2006, you wrote: , Thank you

so much for your thoughtful response. I have been using Pete's protocols to address what he calls "hot temporals." I have tried a couple of the other suggested protocols as well. None of them has really helped with the pain, and a couple of them seem to have intensified it. I wish I knew how to tweak them but I am at a loss as to what direction to be heading. In the past I have tried a small dose of amitriptyline at night, though I'm not currently prescribed that. I do take other medication for sleep, hoping the nighttime repair you mention can be facilitated. My excellent rheumatologist recommends a 10-day course of neomycin every couple of months because there is some kind of gut connection to referred / generalized pain. At my last appointment with him we discussed neurofeedback and were thinking of doing a sham study beginning this summer, but with the results I am getting for myself I am not sure it is

worth it, even though he has wonderful university/research connections and an extremely motivated subject base. Thanks again.gary martin <gcmartinmdmsn> wrote: : After sending my response, I couldn't help but think more about the source of your pain and, being a physician/psychiatrist who has treated several patients with your condition, wonder if you've had a trial of amitriptyline at bedtime. It seems to help enhance nighttime connective tissue repair and, thus, reduce next day global pain. I hope you'll also be able to tweak the TLC plan with the help of et al to get lasting relief. Only others with pain know what a pain pain can be. Denver pain Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:50:25 -0000 I have been training for about 3 weeks using a TLC training plan. I've noticed some nice

effects, but one troubling change is that pain levels have increased, specifically joints (hands, feet) and, more globally, connective tissue throughout the body (dx lupus and fibromylagia). Does anyone have any general or specific principles to consider when it comes to working with pain? Any input would be much appreciated. Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates. Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D. P.O. Box 148town, MA 01833Toll Free in US Direct Dial For information on how to obtain " Coping with Mild Traumatic Brain Injury: A Guide to Living with the

Challenges Associated with Concussion/ Brain Injury" Click the link below <http:// www.drdiane.com >Neuroband: For the Professional and Home User of Neurofeedback equipment: Clink the link belowhttp://www.drdiane.com/neuroband_order.htmlConfidentiality: This electronic message (E-mail) and any files attached hereto contain confidential, legally privileged and protected by copyright. If you are not the intended recipient, dissemination or copying of this E-mail is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please notify the sender by telephone

or replying by E-mail to infodrdiane, then delete the E-mail completely from your system. This E-mail and any attachments have been scanned for viruses, but it is the responsibility of the recipient to conduct their own security measures and no responsibility is accepted by Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed,D. , d/b/a -Dr. Diane and/or Lafayette Counseling Center for loss or damage from receipt or use of this E-mail. No responsibility is accepted by Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D., d/b/a-Dr. Diane and/or Lafayette Counseling Center for personal E-mails, or E-mails unconnected with Dr. Diane Stoler, Ed.D, patients' or client business.Dr. Diane ~ Catalyst for Change® - A neuropsychologist who works with individuals and organizations worldwide, to help them find Solutions and Resources® to overcome life’s challenges and reach their

goals.

Sponsored LinkMortgage rates near historic lows: $150,000 loan as low as $579/mo. Intro-*Terms

[Guest guest]

Open Focus developed by Dr. Les Fehmi has cds that help deal with pain.

I believe a lot of pain can be lessened if we are not so focused on it. The

idea is take our focus away from that which is troubling us. If we can get

into a calmer state of mind and focus on other things rather than the issue

the pain can be lessened. If we fight the pain we can become tense which

also make some pain worse.

Neurofeedback can help in that it helps me to change my state of mind which

maybe obsessive and narrowly focused.

Styffe

HeartSmart

Self Management for Inner Fitness

www.heartsmart.ws

www.focusfitness.ch

[Guest guest]

Thank you Lynn. I'm going to see if I can find one in Denver to try, and if it helps, I may be in touch.

Re: pain

CES means cranial electrostimulation. One of the most famous machine is the Alpha Stim 100. By means of earclips you induce microcurrent (microvolts, 0.5 or 100) into the brain. The effect is nearly immediate pain relief (this is a speciality of alpha stim 100) because your consciousness is changed by a trance induction (staying awake). All types trance induction (e.g. alpha or alpha theta training) reduce pain and reduce memory of pain.Uwe