Re: Armour- bad effects?

[Guest guest]

Hi, -- I've never taken Armour, but thought I'd pass on my doc's

opinion on it, which does seem to make sense though he also comes off

really strong about it. He is the head of endocrinology at a major

research institution out here... though I know that doesn't

necessarily mean anything. Anyway, he told me Armour was " the great

hoax of the thyroid world " because it contains something like 3 times

the amount of T3 that humans have in their bodies naturally (because

it is extracted from an animal). So he believes it can do damage,

though I don't think anyone knows how... or why you feel like you're

going backwards now. I've read too many success stories with Armour to

totally buy into this, but I do wonder if we're hearing stories from

people early in their treatment who initially get a nice " kick " from

all that T3, but then develop other symptoms later on. Well, enough

from me -- I haven't had any experience with Armour personally but I

thought the T3 issue was important to know about! I hope you feel better!

> Hi all,

>

> I'm curious to know if there is anyone out there that has taken

> Armour and had a bad reaction to it? What were your symptoms?

>

> Why I ask is I got switched to it a month ago and I swear I feel like

> I've gone backward. I'm really depressed right now and I'm taking 3-4

> mg's of fish oil along with a " new " vitamin for me, Juice Plus.

> Granted I am pregnant but my fatigue level has dipped to new lows,

> it's awful. I'm 14 weeks pregnant and I'm supposed to be on the

> upswing. I don't think it's coming.

>

> Anyway, let me know any of the responces ANY of you have had on

> Armour.

>

> Thanks,

>

> P

[Guest guest]

I just joined this group a little while ago and have not got around

to introducing myself yet (my story is here:

http://www.webmosaics.com/thyroid/) but this thread struck me and I

forwarded it to a friend who I know has had great success with

Armour. Here is her reply:

------------

Hi to and ,

A friend sent me the following post regarding Armour thyroid since

she knows I have used it with much success in the past, and will

probably be going back to it later this summer...thought I would

share some information on it with you.

>>>Anyway, he told me Armour was " the great hoax of the thyroid

world " >>>because it contains something like 3 times the amount of T3

that humans >>>have in their bodies naturally (because it is

extracted from an animal). >>>So he believes it can do damage, though

I don't think anyone knows >>>how...<<<

Your doctor would be placed high up on my endo wall of shame along

with my first 2 fired endo's and it is obvious that he doesn't have a

clue about Armour, nor has he bothered to take the time to learn it.

Armour Thyroid was, for many years, the only way to replace thyroid

hormone until the 60's I believe when synthetic T4 like synthroid

came out. Armour Thyroid is made from pig thyroids, the pigs are

raised specifically for this purpose btw.

It contains all of the hormones our own thyroid makes, T0, T1 <no one

knows yet what these are for>, T2 <which they have recently

discovered is essential for conversion of the T4 hormone to the

active T3 hormone> T3 <the active hormone that the body actually

uses, it is found literally in every single cell in our bodies, a

friend of mine who is a microbiologist says it is found in every

molecule in our bodies> T4 hormone <the bulk, inactive hormone that

our thyroid makes the most of and must be converted to the active T3

hormone our bodies use> and calcitonin which helps protects us

against osteoporosis. There has been some talk of 2 new hormones

produced by the thyroid that no one knows what they do as of yet, and

that would be T5 and T6...and I do not know if this is found in

Armour Thyroid or not...but all of the others are.

Those that call Armour the great *hoax* are probably a *synthroid*

kind of doc, who recieves great perks from that company. And he is

wrong about it supplying 3 times more T3 than a human body does. The

human body makes T3/T4 in a 1-4 ratio, in Armour it is supplied in a

1-10 ratio, so it is more than our own bodies produce, but that does

not mean that all of it will get used by the body. Once it attaches

to other proteins it is not usable...that is why the proper lab tests

to run to know exactly how much *available* thyroid hormone is in the

body are the FREE T3 and FREE T4.

>>>...or why you feel like you're going backwards now. I've read too

many >>>success stories with Armour to totally buy into this, but I

do wonder if >>>we're hearing stories from people early in their

treatment who initially >>>get a nice " kick " from all that T3, but

then develop other symptoms later >>>on.<<<

,

When did you start Armour Thryoid, what dose are you on and are you

SPLITTING your dose in to 2/3 times a day? When I first went on

Armour Thyroid, weeks 4-7 were just plain horrible and I almost threw

in the towel on it. I was fortunate that I had a couple of friends

who had been using Armour for years before me and they told me to

hang in there until I got through week 8 and to make sure I was

splitting my dose of it...once I started splitting the dose and I got

through that first 2 months I only got better on it. I will put my e-

mail address at the bottom of this if you feel like writing to me

privately. I do know, from my own thyroid groups, and people in my

area who have tried armour have thrown in the towel too soon....and

after having been on it, and going through that initial phase I

don't blame them, but if you can hang in there, and split your dose,

things will improve on it.

Since I didn't see your initial e-mail, I am just going to comment on

some things that may make sense to you. With Armour, the T3 in it has

a very short half life, this means that about 3 hours after taking

it, you will *peak*, the next 3 hours you will 'wind down' and half

of that T3 is gone very quickly...it is this way with any T3 you

take, including the synthetic form as cytomel. This is why splitting

your dose works. When I was on Armour, I took90mcg in the a.m., 5 1/2

to 6 hours later I took 30mcg, and 6 hours later another 15 or 30 mcg

of Armour this later was taken about 2 hours before bed and that is

when I started sleeping all night through again.

When I first started on Armour, I didn't know about splitting

doses...I was on 120mcg in the morning and that was it, I immediately

went hyper, heart palps, tremors the whole ball of wax...and after 6

hours, I was moving right back into hypO mode and being there for the

rest of the day and feeling more hypO than I was when I was

undermedicated on T4 synthetic only and that was pretty bad. When I

learned about splitting the dose I did wonderfully.

I went off Armour last June because my endo and I are trying to

address the autoimmune nature of my thyroid disease and we needed to

find out if the armour was adding to the antibody levels. This past 9

months of being back on synthetic, T3 and T4 has been hell, in my

opinion and I plan on going back on my Armour this summer or by early

fall. I am not doing well on the synthetics at all. BTW, my endo

didn't know that Armour needed to be split into 2 or 3 doses daily

for it to be the most effective, through my involvement and the

things I have learned these last years on thyroid, she now prescribes

it this way.

One little tip with Armour, the day you get labs, get them as early

in the morning as possible but do NOT take your armour before you get

them...it will show that you are hyper, when you really aren't.

>>>Well, enough from me -- I haven't had any experience with Armour

>>>personally but I thought the T3 issue was important to know about!

I hope >>>you feel better!<<<

Hi , The T3 issue is very important. If the body is not

converting T4 to T3 properly <which happens a lot in autoimmune

thyroid disease> the brain does not function properly, that is where

the brain fog comes in...and without T3, I end up with such horrible

muscle aches and hip pain, but when levels of T3 are proper for *me*

at *my* own setpoints with my T3 and T4 hormones I do wonderfully. I

am currently taking levothroid for T4 and cytomel for T3 and still am

not doing anywhere near as well as I did on my Armour. I hate having

to replace thyroid hormone with synthetics, and maybe armour is not

the answer for everyone, maybe not the answer for anyone, but

for now, it offers us quality of life that T4 synthetics alone don't

give us.

Far to many doctors are so against the use of T3, they are afraid to

keep us in the upper levels of normal <or hyper levels of normal

ranges, they fear it will cause all kinds of problems...but they are

not reading the latest studies out there that actually show keeping

us hypO or on the lower ends of the normal range makes us at a much

greater risk for heart disease and congestive heart failure. Any

doctor who thinks hypO thyroid is *easy* to treat needs to take 300mg

of PTU or Tapazole for 3 months and live in hypOhell for at least

that long, then they will fully understand our complaints, will learn

to treat us with proper hormone replacement, and will no longer

repeat the cliches " it's not your thyroid " or " it's not thyroid

related " .

Being educated and proactive in our care is the best medicine for us

and finding doctors who welcome us makes that part of our journey

much easier. I have fired 2 endo's, 2 primaries and 1 ophthalmologist

<thyroid eye disease also> before finding my current team of doctors

who have all been told they can not die or retire before I expire.

I apologize for jumping in on your conversation, my friend thought

maybe I could explain some things on Armour. I'm not a member of this

group but am involved with 5 other groups, they keep me busy ;-) If

either of you would like to write to me privately, feel free to do so

at luckystrike@

hotmail.com <left the space so the full address will show up in

e-mail...just put something in the subject line like Thyroid or

Armour so I will know to open it.

I wish you all the best in dealing with your thyroid conditions,

sometimes the battle isn't easy, but it can be done and we can feel

well again.

Jody

luckystrike@ hotmail.com

------

Hope this helps you ,

Pam B.

http://www.webmosaics.com/thyroid/

[Guest guest]

Well, I've been off of it for 4 days, and I already feel better. NOW,

this might be my hormones from pregnancy calming down BUT since the

thyroid controls hormones anyway, one can assume that my feeling

better HAS to be from switching back to my other (T4 only) medicine.

Perhaps in the future I will try it again, BUT I'd rather control the

T3 instead of having it in just a lump sum. I'd rather try a little

Cytomel. I never had a " storm " or went hyper. I actually felt like I

was going MORE hypo.

Everyone has their opinions about T4 and T4/T3 combo. I'm kind of

curious about the different treatments because it seemed like

this " alternative " doctor that I had was SO sure that it was going to

make me feel better, it's almost like he was on the other side

saying, " oh only T4/T3 combo's work " . I was reading that Armour

actually contains T2 and T1 along with Calcium, pretty weird huh?

AGAIN, I will say, it really IS up to the individual's responce to a

drug, not the " popular " thing to do. I really think you have to go

through a lot of frogs to find your Prince Charming doctor and your

medicine. Unfortunately, my meds are just half of my problem and I

know that.

UGH......I guess I'll just keep on trudging!

P

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I'm curious to know if there is anyone out there that has taken

> > Armour and had a bad reaction to it? What were your symptoms?

> >

> > Why I ask is I got switched to it a month ago and I swear I feel

like

> > I've gone backward. I'm really depressed right now and I'm taking

3-4

> > mg's of fish oil along with a " new " vitamin for me, Juice Plus.

> > Granted I am pregnant but my fatigue level has dipped to new

lows,

> > it's awful. I'm 14 weeks pregnant and I'm supposed to be on the

> > upswing. I don't think it's coming.

> >

> > Anyway, let me know any of the responces ANY of you have had on

> > Armour.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > P

[Guest guest]

-

Hi everyone,

I do not take armour either. My endo does not like

it because he said you have a hard time controling the amount

and regulating it in the individuals system. He told me that

the animal that is derived from is cows.

I am on synthroid and cytomel. My endo feels that

he can better treat me with these two drugs. I am not

sure about any side effects, though. We did not discuss that.

I had asked about Armour a few months ago.

I hope everyone is well and on the northeast coast, we

just got slammed with another snow storm.So if you are on the

east coast, hope you are staying warm.

Sincerely,

Kim

-- In Thyroiditis , " suuzin " <suuzin@y...> wrote:

> Hi, -- I've never taken Armour, but thought I'd pass on my

doc's

> opinion on it, which does seem to make sense though he also comes

off

> really strong about it. He is the head of endocrinology at a major

> research institution out here... though I know that doesn't

> necessarily mean anything. Anyway, he told me Armour was " the great

> hoax of the thyroid world " because it contains something like 3

times

> the amount of T3 that humans have in their bodies naturally (because

> it is extracted from an animal). So he believes it can do damage,

> though I don't think anyone knows how... or why you feel like you're

> going backwards now. I've read too many success stories with Armour

to

> totally buy into this, but I do wonder if we're hearing stories from

> people early in their treatment who initially get a nice " kick " from

> all that T3, but then develop other symptoms later on. Well, enough

> from me -- I haven't had any experience with Armour personally but I

> thought the T3 issue was important to know about! I hope you feel

better!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I'm curious to know if there is anyone out there that has taken

> > Armour and had a bad reaction to it? What were your symptoms?

> >

> > Why I ask is I got switched to it a month ago and I swear I feel

like

> > I've gone backward. I'm really depressed right now and I'm taking

3-4

> > mg's of fish oil along with a " new " vitamin for me, Juice Plus.

> > Granted I am pregnant but my fatigue level has dipped to new

lows,

> > it's awful. I'm 14 weeks pregnant and I'm supposed to be on the

> > upswing. I don't think it's coming.

> >

> > Anyway, let me know any of the responces ANY of you have had on

> > Armour.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > P

[Guest guest]

Hi, all -- THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for sharing your

experience, research, views on Armour!! Just throwing a general thank

you out to everyone because I lost track of who said what... :-) but

the discussion thread is great. Armour has obviously been a

controversial supplement but it sounds like it has helped a lot of

people -- so it's good for all of us to become more informed so we

can make decisions that feel best for each of us individually.

I hope whoever forwarded their comments through their friend joins our

list!

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > I'm curious to know if there is anyone out there that has taken

> > > Armour and had a bad reaction to it? What were your symptoms?

> > >

> > > Why I ask is I got switched to it a month ago and I swear I feel

> like

> > > I've gone backward. I'm really depressed right now and I'm taking

> 3-4

> > > mg's of fish oil along with a " new " vitamin for me, Juice Plus.

> > > Granted I am pregnant but my fatigue level has dipped to new

> lows,

> > > it's awful. I'm 14 weeks pregnant and I'm supposed to be on the

> > > upswing. I don't think it's coming.

> > >

> > > Anyway, let me know any of the responces ANY of you have had on

> > > Armour.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > P

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, Pam -- I just took a quick peek at your Web site... I'm going to

read it in more detail later. Quite thorough!! Thanks for posting it

to the group, I'm sure folks on this list will find it a good resource.

> I just joined this group a little while ago and have not got around

> to introducing myself yet (my story is here:

http://www.webmosaics.com/thyroid/

[Guest guest]

Okay, if Armour is so good for us, then why did I have SUCH a adverse

reaction? Was it just the wrong time( 1st tri pregnancy)? Is it

possible my body was just trying to rid itself of the synthetic? I'm

not sure. All I know is I feel better after being off of it for one

week than I EVER felt while on it. I think after my pregnancy, I will

try it or Cytomel just to see if I have the same reaction.

P

> > > > Hi all,

> > > >

> > > > I'm curious to know if there is anyone out there that has

taken

> > > > Armour and had a bad reaction to it? What were your

symptoms?

> > > >

> > > > Why I ask is I got switched to it a month ago and I swear I

feel

> > like

> > > > I've gone backward. I'm really depressed right now and I'm

taking

> > 3-4

> > > > mg's of fish oil along with a " new " vitamin for me, Juice

Plus.

> > > > Granted I am pregnant but my fatigue level has dipped to

new

> > lows,

> > > > it's awful. I'm 14 weeks pregnant and I'm supposed to be on

the

> > > > upswing. I don't think it's coming.

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, let me know any of the responces ANY of you have

had on

> > > > Armour.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > >

> > > > P

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

, I am having good luck with the synthroid and cytomel

combination. I hope I get this right if not someone please

correct me. Synthroid is the t4 replacement and cytomel is

the t3 replacement. If I have that right alot of docs only

test for t4, and do not believe in the t3. My endo is concerned

with all aspects of the thyroid hormones.I hope I gave the

correct info, brain fog has been slightly bad today. I had

a thirteen hour day with an hour drive on both ends of that,

so on these days my symptons seem a little heightened.

Since being on the cytomel, my energy level has increased and

have had clearer thoughts. I also have better sleep patterns.

Unless around my menstrual cycle, cause all hell breaks loose

then. I also, as someone else has mentioned, take cytomel in

the morning and in the early afternoon. I have the same problem

if I take it after two p.m. it affects my sleeping. Which we

all know has become very precious to each of us. I hope some

of this info is helpful.

Sincerely, Kim

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > I'm curious to know if there is anyone out there that has taken

> > > Armour and had a bad reaction to it? What were your symptoms?

> > >

> > > Why I ask is I got switched to it a month ago and I swear I

feel

> like

> > > I've gone backward. I'm really depressed right now and I'm

taking

> 3-4

> > > mg's of fish oil along with a " new " vitamin for me, Juice Plus.

> > > Granted I am pregnant but my fatigue level has dipped to new

> lows,

> > > it's awful. I'm 14 weeks pregnant and I'm supposed to be on the

> > > upswing. I don't think it's coming.

> > >

> > > Anyway, let me know any of the responces ANY of you have had on

> > > Armour.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > P

>

>

>

>