Re: Any Risk Associated with Low-Dose DMSA?

[Guest guest]

Mirielle:

I too was uncomfortable with the latest protocol. So I started my son (70 lbs) on 50mg DMSA every four hours - 3 days on/4 days off. He had no negative side-effects and plenty enough positives in social interaction, eye contact, awareness of what's going on around him, etc. Many many doctors have suggested the 8 hr protocol or even doing one dose per day...my answer is always "I'm happy with our protocol and really am not interested in changing anything."

All My Best,

[Guest guest]

We started our 48lb son out at 50mg every 4 hours with no problems and slowly

moved it up to 200mg every 4 hours, still with no side effects. We recently

started ALA and saw some aggressive behaviors so lowered the dose and they

went away.

mgen27@... wrote:

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I received the treatment protocol for my almost 6 year-old daughter,

> who weighs 53 lbs. It requires her to take 200 mg of DMSA every 8

> hours, 3 on/11 off. She is very high-functioning, happy and

> sociable, although she is unable to exchange appropriate conversation

> with her peers, and has other relatively moderate autistic symptoms.

>

> I feel uncomfortable with that amount of DMSA for several reasons. My

> daughter is a very happy and highly verbal child with a mellow

> disposition. I am not anxious to mess with something that's working,

> although her inability to socialize appropriately and other symptoms

> are factors to consider. I see that some parents are chelating

> successfully with smaller amounts of DMSA, e.g., 25 mg every 4 hours.

>

> I would very much like to hear from parents who have tried low-dose

> DMSA, what their experience was, and whether bad behaviors were noted

> during the chelation cycle or shortly afterward. I would like to

> compare this type of dosing schedule with the " standard " doses now

> being prescribed, where regression is often noted during chelation.

>

> I would also like to hear from the science/medical community as to

> whether there is any known risk associated with low-dose

> administration of DMSA. Why go with 200 mg/8hrs if I can go with 25

> mg/4hrs, slowly and gently, perhaps increasing the dose gradually

> after observing each cycle? Wouldn't this be more gentle on my

> child's system? Could the regression that is often noted with the

> higher doses of DMSA be the result of oxidative stress on the child's

> body?

>

> I hope that any responses that I get will be of benefit to others as

> well.

>

> Many thanks.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Mireille

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

Mirelle,

I was not happy with the amount of DMSA they wanted my son to take,

I give him 50mg DMSA every 4 hours. He is 42lbs. We are getting alot

of lead out. I chose 50 because I started w/ 25 mg ALA and the ratio

is suppose to be 2 to 1. It is hard for me to tell any more what are

the side effects. I guess he gets a bit more hyper, he is not

aggressive but he is now pushing his little 2 yr old brother all the

time. I believe this is a move foward. He never use to acknowledge

him. Good luck

nne

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I received the treatment protocol for my almost 6 year-old

daughter,

> who weighs 53 lbs. It requires her to take 200 mg of DMSA every 8

> hours, 3 on/11 off. She is very high-functioning, happy and

> sociable, although she is unable to exchange appropriate

conversation

> with her peers, and has other relatively moderate autistic symptoms.

>

> I feel uncomfortable with that amount of DMSA for several reasons.

My

> daughter is a very happy and highly verbal child with a mellow

> disposition. I am not anxious to mess with something that's

working,

> although her inability to socialize appropriately and other

symptoms

> are factors to consider. I see that some parents are chelating

> successfully with smaller amounts of DMSA, e.g., 25 mg every 4

hours.

>

> I would very much like to hear from parents who have tried low-dose

> DMSA, what their experience was, and whether bad behaviors were

noted

> during the chelation cycle or shortly afterward. I would like to

> compare this type of dosing schedule with the " standard " doses now

> being prescribed, where regression is often noted during chelation.

>

> I would also like to hear from the science/medical community as to

> whether there is any known risk associated with low-dose

> administration of DMSA. Why go with 200 mg/8hrs if I can go with

25

> mg/4hrs, slowly and gently, perhaps increasing the dose gradually

> after observing each cycle? Wouldn't this be more gentle on my

> child's system? Could the regression that is often noted with the

> higher doses of DMSA be the result of oxidative stress on the

child's

> body?

>

> I hope that any responses that I get will be of benefit to others

as

> well.

>

> Many thanks.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Mireille

[Guest guest]

There is no " correct ratio " of DMSA to ALA. If you are seeing a doc

who insists there is, you need to accept responsibility for managing

chelation of your child because the doc doesn't have the necessary

understanding to do so.

Andy

> > Hi Everyone,

> >

> > I received the treatment protocol for my almost 6 year-old

> daughter,

> > who weighs 53 lbs. It requires her to take 200 mg of DMSA every 8

> > hours, 3 on/11 off. She is very high-functioning, happy and

> > sociable, although she is unable to exchange appropriate

> conversation

> > with her peers, and has other relatively moderate autistic

symptoms.

> >

> > I feel uncomfortable with that amount of DMSA for several reasons.

> My

> > daughter is a very happy and highly verbal child with a mellow

> > disposition. I am not anxious to mess with something that's

> working,

> > although her inability to socialize appropriately and other

> symptoms

> > are factors to consider. I see that some parents are chelating

> > successfully with smaller amounts of DMSA, e.g., 25 mg every 4

> hours.

> >

> > I would very much like to hear from parents who have tried

low-dose

> > DMSA, what their experience was, and whether bad behaviors were

> noted

> > during the chelation cycle or shortly afterward. I would like to

> > compare this type of dosing schedule with the " standard " doses now

> > being prescribed, where regression is often noted during

chelation.

> >

> > I would also like to hear from the science/medical community as to

> > whether there is any known risk associated with low-dose

> > administration of DMSA. Why go with 200 mg/8hrs if I can go with

> 25

> > mg/4hrs, slowly and gently, perhaps increasing the dose gradually

> > after observing each cycle? Wouldn't this be more gentle on my

> > child's system? Could the regression that is often noted with the

> > higher doses of DMSA be the result of oxidative stress on the

> child's

> > body?

> >

> > I hope that any responses that I get will be of benefit to others

> as

> > well.

> >

> > Many thanks.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes, the risk is she gets worse instead of better on an inappropriate

administration schedule. See the polls section of this lists website.

DMSA should be given every 4 hours (regardless of dosage) to maintain

constant blood levels of the drug.

Reducing dosage simply lowers side effects.

Since the amount of toxin removed is not linear in DMSA dose, 25 mg

every 4 hours removes toxin at 70% the rate of 200 mg every 8 hours.

Slowing down by 30% is a small price to pay for dramatically reduced

side effects.

Andy

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I received the treatment protocol for my almost 6 year-old daughter,

> who weighs 53 lbs. It requires her to take 200 mg of DMSA every 8

> hours, 3 on/11 off. She is very high-functioning, happy and

> sociable, although she is unable to exchange appropriate

conversation

> with her peers, and has other relatively moderate autistic symptoms.

>

> I feel uncomfortable with that amount of DMSA for several reasons.

My

> daughter is a very happy and highly verbal child with a mellow

> disposition. I am not anxious to mess with something that's

working,

> although her inability to socialize appropriately and other symptoms

> are factors to consider. I see that some parents are chelating

> successfully with smaller amounts of DMSA, e.g., 25 mg every 4

hours.

>

> I would very much like to hear from parents who have tried low-dose

> DMSA, what their experience was, and whether bad behaviors were

noted

> during the chelation cycle or shortly afterward. I would like to

> compare this type of dosing schedule with the " standard " doses now

> being prescribed, where regression is often noted during chelation.

>

> I would also like to hear from the science/medical community as to

> whether there is any known risk associated with low-dose

> administration of DMSA. Why go with 200 mg/8hrs if I can go with 25

> mg/4hrs, slowly and gently, perhaps increasing the dose gradually

> after observing each cycle? Wouldn't this be more gentle on my

> child's system? Could the regression that is often noted with the

> higher doses of DMSA be the result of oxidative stress on the

child's

> body?

>

> I hope that any responses that I get will be of benefit to others as

> well.

>

> Many thanks.

>

> Sincerely,

>

[Guest guest]

Andy,

Thanks for responding. I'm getting a mixed message, though, and

would appreciate a clarification, please:

- A low dose may be more risky.

- A low dose, although slower at removing toxins, is a small price

to pay for dramatically reduced side effects.

Question 1: Should I start with the low dose or not? What is the

risk associated with a low dose, e.g., mercury redistribution? Is 25

mg/ 4hrs. 3 on/11 off OK for 53 lbs.?

Question 2: How does mercury get redistributed when it is bound

tightly by the DMSA? I was told by my doctor that there is no risk

of DMSA dropping mercury with varying blood levels of the drug,

because once mercury is bound, it stays bound. (I'm assuming that

redistribution risk is the reason that you are in favor of the 4-hour

dosing schedule.)

Thanks for your time and help.

Sincerely,

Mireille

> > Hi Everyone,

> >

> > I received the treatment protocol for my almost 6 year-old

daughter,

> > who weighs 53 lbs. It requires her to take 200 mg of DMSA every

8

> > hours, 3 on/11 off. She is very high-functioning, happy and

> > sociable, although she is unable to exchange appropriate

> conversation

> > with her peers, and has other relatively moderate autistic

symptoms.

> >

> > I feel uncomfortable with that amount of DMSA for several

reasons.

> My

> > daughter is a very happy and highly verbal child with a mellow

> > disposition. I am not anxious to mess with something that's

> working,

> > although her inability to socialize appropriately and other

symptoms

> > are factors to consider. I see that some parents are chelating

> > successfully with smaller amounts of DMSA, e.g., 25 mg every 4

> hours.

> >

> > I would very much like to hear from parents who have tried low-

dose

> > DMSA, what their experience was, and whether bad behaviors were

> noted

> > during the chelation cycle or shortly afterward. I would like to

> > compare this type of dosing schedule with the " standard " doses

now

> > being prescribed, where regression is often noted during

chelation.

> >

> > I would also like to hear from the science/medical community as

to

> > whether there is any known risk associated with low-dose

> > administration of DMSA. Why go with 200 mg/8hrs if I can go with

25

> > mg/4hrs, slowly and gently, perhaps increasing the dose gradually

> > after observing each cycle? Wouldn't this be more gentle on my

> > child's system? Could the regression that is often noted with

the

> > higher doses of DMSA be the result of oxidative stress on the

> child's

> > body?

> >

> > I hope that any responses that I get will be of benefit to others

as

> > well.

> >

> > Many thanks.

> >

> > Sincerely,

> >

[Guest guest]

The 200mg every 8 hours is what is listed in the PDR for lead but if you're

uncomfortable with that dose, you can start lower and build up. The PDR also

states that there have been reports of DMSA increasing arsenic and mercury

output in urine. We've always used the dosage recommended by the PDR

(10mg/kg) for lead with no major problems. As for side effects, I just

looked through the 2001 PDR which lists several possible side effects

including:

Low Neutrophil counts -- as I understand this, is involves your ability to

fight infection

white blood cells, I think, but I'm no doc so check with your

doc on this one -- not really common but does happen so should

be watched for. PDR suggests that a CBC with white blood

cell differential and direct platelet counts of ANC (absolute neutrophil

count) be run frequently during chelation and if it drops below

1200/ul you should discontinue or postpone chelation.

Elevations in Serum Transaminases (not sure what this is, liver function, I

think?)

Rash and other skin disturbances (this could be what alot of folks are

blaming on

mercury but could really be a reaction to the DMSA like the DMPS rep said)

Digestive difficulties, pain, constipation

Pains, chills, sensorimotor difficulty, cloudy film in eye, feeling of ears

plugged, sore throat, cough, arrithymia.

It listed others but these were the more common of the occasional side

effects and there were too many to write down .

It seems starting with a lower dose would reduce the degree of bad side

effects if you're going to have any but not necessarily so. It would reduce

the amount of metals coming out which might be helpful if the liver and

kidneys aren't as able to process metals as well. As I understand it,

reducing the dosage doesn't impair DMSA's ability to remove metals, it just

slows the release down.

Gaylen

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/15/01 2:55:29 PM Central Daylight Time,

AndyCutler@... writes:

<< Since the amount of toxin removed is not linear in DMSA dose, 25 mg

every 4 hours removes toxin at 70% the rate of 200 mg every 8 hours.

Slowing down by 30% is a small price to pay for dramatically reduced

side effects. >>

Could you point me to where you learned this? I'd like to read more about

it. Thanks!

Gaylen

[Guest guest]

My Dr. has suggested starting with 50 mg DMSA dosages every four hours,

while awake. Then, allow the child to sleep through the night to

descrease irritability. Resume while awake dosage. Duration

: for 3 on/11 off. I am worried about the interruption of dosage

while sleeping.

Any thoughts? We will start chelating next weekend

Mirielle:

I

too was uncomfortable with the latest protocol. So I started my son

(70

lbs)

on 50mg DMSA every four hours - 3 days on/4 days off.

He had no

negative

side-effects and plenty enough positives in social interaction, eye

contact,

awareness of what's going on around him, etc. Many many doctors

have

suggested the 8 hr protocol or even doing one dose per day...my answer

is

always "I'm happy with our protocol and really am not interested in

changing

anything."

All

My Best,

[Guest guest]

> My Dr. has suggested starting with 50 mg DMSA dosages every four

hours,

> while awake. Then, allow the child to sleep through the night to

> descrease irritability. Resume while awake dosage. Duration : for

3

> on/11 off. I am worried about the interruption of dosage while

> sleeping.

>

> Any thoughts? We will start chelating next weekend

This is an incredibly bad idea and the adults I know who did this got

extremely sick.

The nighttime dose is essential. Your metabolism doesn't stop at

night (that is, you don't die, you just go to sleep).

If it is totally impossible to give a nighttime dose, then chelate

from early in the morning to late at night, skip the rest of the week,

and repeat. I do NOT reccomend this, I simply think it would do less

damage than the above.

>

>

>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

--

>

>

>

> > Mirielle:

> > I too was uncomfortable with the latest protocol. So I started my

son

> > (70

> > lbs) on 50mg DMSA every four hours - 3 days on/4 days off. He

had

> > no

> > negative side-effects and plenty enough positives in social

> > interaction, eye

> > contact, awareness of what's going on around him, etc. Many many

> > doctors

> > have suggested the 8 hr protocol or even doing one dose per

day...my

> > answer

> > is always " I'm happy with our protocol and really am not

interested in

> >

> > changing anything. "

> >

> > All My Best,

[Guest guest]

> > > Hi Everyone,

> > >

> > > I received the treatment protocol for my almost 6 year-old

> daughter,

> > > who weighs 53 lbs. It requires her to take 200 mg of DMSA

every

> 8

> > > hours, 3 on/11 off. She is very high-functioning, happy and

> > > sociable, although she is unable to exchange appropriate

> > conversation

> > > with her peers, and has other relatively moderate autistic

> symptoms.

> > >

> > > I feel uncomfortable with that amount of DMSA for several

> reasons.

> > My

> > > daughter is a very happy and highly verbal child with a mellow

> > > disposition. I am not anxious to mess with something that's

> > working,

> > > although her inability to socialize appropriately and other

> symptoms

> > > are factors to consider. I see that some parents are chelating

> > > successfully with smaller amounts of DMSA, e.g., 25 mg every 4

> > hours.

> > >

> > > I would very much like to hear from parents who have tried low-

> dose

> > > DMSA, what their experience was, and whether bad behaviors were

> > noted

> > > during the chelation cycle or shortly afterward. I would like

to

> > > compare this type of dosing schedule with the " standard " doses

> now

> > > being prescribed, where regression is often noted during

> chelation.

> > >

> > > I would also like to hear from the science/medical community as

> to

> > > whether there is any known risk associated with low-dose

> > > administration of DMSA. Why go with 200 mg/8hrs if I can go

with

> 25

> > > mg/4hrs, slowly and gently, perhaps increasing the dose

gradually

> > > after observing each cycle? Wouldn't this be more gentle on my

> > > child's system? Could the regression that is often noted with

> the

> > > higher doses of DMSA be the result of oxidative stress on the

> > child's

> > > body?

> > >

> > > I hope that any responses that I get will be of benefit to

others

> as

> > > well.

> > >

> > > Many thanks.

> > >

> > > Sincerely,

> > >