Re: STINKY L-Glutathione!!

[Guest guest]

& Terri,

Good summary kelly, you can do it in much less words than I seem to, I do

remember a bit about the carrier protein but not enough to agree or disagree, if

we try to keep things simple then we could say that :-

Glutathione has glutamine in it, and is an unstable compound that readily

decomposes.

Glutamic acid, Glutamine (think amino) and Glutamate (think problem

neurotransmitter) have a diverse relationship, seemingly they are

interchangeable, if in the instance of already elevated ammonia, there is reason

for caution not to add an amino that could both end up as Glutamate and add to

the ammonia.

Glutamate is neurotoxic, and does not favour mental alacrity, ammonia may or may

not be neurotoxic but is certainly is not good for brain function.

The dilema is that glutamine & glutathione have an important role, but it is

possible that it may also be adding to other problems because of how glutamine

may be being metabolised in autism.

There don't seem to be any hard and fast rules on this and it does not seem to

be a subject that has had much investigation in the past in relation to autism

(that I know of).

It is a safe bet that glutathione is not doing what it should be, the

possibilities are that it is not being made because of enzyme problems, it is

not being made because of precursor problems, it is not getting " renewed " or it

is getting broken down by some or other factor, shelf life?

Jon.

Re: [ ] STINKY L-Glutathione!!

Terri

I try to s'plain to ya.. I just don't know if it will be very clear.. It

started when I was reading about MSG and its effects.. Glutamine is a

precurser to glutamate . There is something called a glutamate transport

protein and if these don't soak up excess glutamine then they can lead to

excess glutamate which can kill neurons . This is the kind of thing I

remember from reading and took it to heart.. If you'd like I could delve

deeper into my MSG book. I haven't had this out for a long time so mainly I

remember be wary of glutamine for this particular reason...,

Now if it is not turning to glutamate then it can be just fine and do

exactly what you said.. Heal the gut.. I just didn't want to take any

chances... Jon you can always step in here..... kelly

[Guest guest]

What a confusing subject...

(Andy said... Glutamate is, among many other things, one of the 3 amino acids in

glutathione. The other 2 are glycine and cysteine.)

(Jon said... Glutathione has glutamine in it, and is an unstable compound that

readily decomposes)

Our Kirkman Reduced L-Glutathione lists L-Glutathione, Plant Cellulose, Leucine,

and Silicon Dioxide. Does this mean that the two active ingredients are

Glutathione and Leucine, two amino acids? Does this mean that Glutamine is

absent from this prep? Is that why Kirkman's Glutathione doesn't smell?

I sure would like to understand this subject. Tear this writeup apart, anyone.

Are these statements correct? They are cobbled together from other's previous

postings.

_____________

We want both Glutathione and Cysteine levels to be mid-range. These are sulfury

compounds that can feed yeast. Cysteine is used to make glutathione. Some

mercury toxic people are too high in cysteine and some are too low. Some people

have reduced glutathione levels because glutathione as an antioxidant gets used

up by mercury, an oxidation catalyst. In other people, the mercury makes their

bodies produce too much glutathione and cysteine, which can mobilize mercury and

make it more toxic via thiols.

About half of mercury toxic people have elevated plasma cysteine. For those

people, glutathione and it's precursors are harmful because, while they raise

glutathione levels, they will also raise cysteine levels. Those people need to

avoid the precursors - NAC, whey protein, and a diet high in dairy, eggs and

'sulfury' vegetables. In this case there is nothing more you can do to raise

glutathione levels except undergo metals detox. Mercury toxic people lose the

ability to convert cysteine to glutathione, sulfate and taurine (and others?),

thus the high levels. The poor conversion of cysteine to sulfate is the PST

problem that Dr. Rosemary Waring finds in autistics having a high cysteine to

sulfate ratio. Supplementation of taurine and sulfate might spare cysteine to

be more available to make glutathione. Cysteine itself is toxic to neurons (S.

Owens).

About half of mercury toxic people have low plasma cysteine. For those people,

glutathione and it's precursors are very beneficial. Those people need to

supplement the precursors - NAC, whey protein, and a diet high in dairy, eggs

and 'sulfury' vegetables. Mercury is excreted from the liver in bile while

bound to glutathione, so low glutathione levels impair mercury detox. Taurine

is needed for bile production.

((My question - do all conversion processes have to work for glutathione

precursors to become glutathione? Or is this the reason that glutathione itself

is recommended by some? Andy has said that 4 parts NAC to 2 parts glutamine to

1 part glycine is an excellent glutathione boosting formula for those not high

in cysteine.))

Glutamine is sometimes (in Twinlabs?) a component of glutathione blends. It is

recommended for healing leaky guts. If it's improperly processed it can convert

to neurotoxins. Glutamine can convert to Glutamate in individuals who can't

process Glutamine it properly, creating excess Glutamate which is an MSG like

substance that can be neurotoxic. Glutamine can convert to Glutamate in poorly

stored packaging. Glutamate can cause excess ammonia in individuals who can't

process it properly, increasing neurotoxicity.

_____________

** All I know is that my daughter muscle tested weak for glutamine a year ago so

I never gave it to her. She tolerates small amounts of sulfur veggies well

enough, I think, and is tolerating Kirkman's glutathione well. She tolerates an

amino acid blend well also.

[Guest guest]

Boy

Have you ever summed up just how utterly confusing everything is... I

couldn't agree with you more... This is why I don't use glutathione, NAC,

cysteine and glutamine. I am thinking taurine is safe.. I am pretty much

going with my gut here .. I am completely with you .. How in the world do

we even know what to do.. I cried today .. I told my husband I am so sick

of being the " Doctor " . Everything is so individual that I think that just

going with this or that suppliment is crazy.. Last time it was NAC .. Half

the kids did better, half did worse.. Same with everything.. So I have to

be the doctor cause no doctor is going to come to my house and watch to see

if my kid reacts to sulfur foods or see if he is handling a suppliment that

was supposed to be ok for the other half , not mine.. So you see we really

do need to become as educated as possible to see what is going on with our

child. This is really looking like an individual type of thing.. What works

for some, might not work for someone else.. You have my sympathy..

kelly

[Guest guest]

I don't know the answer to your question but I would like to share our

experience with L-glutamine. But I would like to have a better understanding

of these supplements.

I have been giving Austin the Kirkman Labs L-Glutamine for a few months. I

increased the dosage from 1pill a day to 2 pills a day about one month ago.

He started to regress in language. He even started having potty accidents!!

I took him off all L-Glutamine one week ago and he is back to his ole' self

again.

Mom to Austin (recovered from pdd) and (nt)

5 yr old twins.

In a message dated 5/25/01 7:27:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

nmkramer@... writes:

> Subj:Re: [ ] STINKY L-Glutathione!!

> Date:5/25/01 7:27:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time

> From: nmkramer@... (The Kramer Family)

> Reply-to: <A

HREF= " mailto: " > </A>

>

>

>

>

>

> What a confusing subject...

>

> (Andy said... Glutamate is, among many other things, one of the 3 amino

> acids in glutathione. The other 2 are glycine and cysteine.)

> (Jon said... Glutathione has glutamine in it, and is an unstable compound

> that readily decomposes)

>

> Our Kirkman Reduced L-Glutathione lists L-Glutathione, Plant Cellulose,

> Leucine, and Silicon Dioxide. Does this mean that the two active

> ingredients are Glutathione and Leucine, two amino acids? Does this mean

> that Glutamine is absent from this prep? Is that why Kirkman's Glutathione

> doesn't smell?

>

> I sure would like to understand this subject. Tear this writeup apart,

> anyone. Are these statements correct? They are cobbled together from

> other's previous postings.

> _____________

>

> We want both Glutathione and Cysteine levels to be mid-range. These are

> sulfury compounds that can feed yeast. Cysteine is used to make

> glutathione. Some mercury toxic people are too high in cysteine and some

> are too low. Some people have reduced glutathione levels because

> glutathione as an antioxidant gets used up by mercury, an oxidation

> catalyst. In other people, the mercury makes their bodies produce too much

> glutathione and cysteine, which can mobilize mercury and make it more toxic

> via thiols.

>

> About half of mercury toxic people have elevated plasma cysteine. For

> those people, glutathione and it's precursors are harmful because, while

> they raise glutathione levels, they will also raise cysteine levels. Those

> people need to avoid the precursors - NAC, whey protein, and a diet high in

> dairy, eggs and 'sulfury' vegetables. In this case there is nothing more

> you can do to raise glutathione levels except undergo metals detox.

> Mercury toxic people lose the ability to convert cysteine to glutathione,

> sulfate and taurine (and others?), thus the high levels. The poor

> conversion of cysteine to sulfate is the PST problem that Dr. Rosemary

> Waring finds in autistics having a high cysteine to sulfate ratio.

> Supplementation of taurine and sulfate might spare cysteine to be more

> available to make glutathione. Cysteine itself is toxic to neurons (S.

> Owens).

>

> About half of mercury toxic people have low plasma cysteine. For those

> people, glutathione and it's precursors are very beneficial. Those people

> need to supplement the precursors - NAC, whey protein, and a diet high in

> dairy, eggs and 'sulfury' vegetables. Mercury is excreted from the liver

> in bile while bound to glutathione, so low glutathione levels impair

> mercury detox. Taurine is needed for bile production.

> ((My question - do all conversion processes have to work for glutathione

> precursors to become glutathione? Or is this the reason that glutathione

> itself is recommended by some? Andy has said that 4 parts NAC to 2 parts

> glutamine to 1 part glycine is an excellent glutathione boosting formula

> for those not high in cysteine.))

>

> Glutamine is sometimes (in Twinlabs?) a component of glutathione blends.

> It is recommended for healing leaky guts. If it's improperly processed it

> can convert to neurotoxins. Glutamine can convert to Glutamate in

> individuals who can't process Glutamine it properly, creating excess

> Glutamate which is an MSG like substance that can be neurotoxic. Glutamine

> can convert to Glutamate in poorly stored packaging. Glutamate can cause

> excess ammonia in individuals who can't process it properly, increasing

> neurotoxicity.

> _____________

>

> ** All I know is that my daughter muscle tested weak for glutamine a year

> ago so I never gave it to her. She tolerates small amounts of sulfur

> veggies well enough, I think, and is tolerating Kirkman's glutathione well.

> She tolerates an amino acid blend well also.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

So is there any way to dtermine if you are in need of supplemental glutathione

or not?? Does this mean that if you show signs of reactivity to phenols that

you likely have higher cystein levels?? If your child is low on glutathione

and you dteox w/o supplementation, will that hurt them?? Thanks for responses!!

Re: [ ] STINKY L-Glutathione!!

What a confusing subject...

(Andy said... Glutamate is, among many other things, one of the 3 amino acids

in glutathione. The other 2 are glycine and cysteine.)

(Jon said... Glutathione has glutamine in it, and is an unstable compound that

readily decomposes)

Our Kirkman Reduced L-Glutathione lists L-Glutathione, Plant Cellulose,

Leucine, and Silicon Dioxide. Does this mean that the two active ingredients

are Glutathione and Leucine, two amino acids? Does this mean that Glutamine is

absent from this prep? Is that why Kirkman's Glutathione doesn't smell?

I sure would like to understand this subject. Tear this writeup apart,

anyone. Are these statements correct? They are cobbled together from other's

previous postings.

_____________

We want both Glutathione and Cysteine levels to be mid-range. These are

sulfury compounds that can feed yeast. Cysteine is used to make glutathione.

Some mercury toxic people are too high in cysteine and some are too low. Some

people have reduced glutathione levels because glutathione as an antioxidant

gets used up by mercury, an oxidation catalyst. In other people, the mercury

makes their bodies produce too much glutathione and cysteine, which can mobilize

mercury and make it more toxic via thiols.

About half of mercury toxic people have elevated plasma cysteine. For those

people, glutathione and it's precursors are harmful because, while they raise

glutathione levels, they will also raise cysteine levels. Those people need to

avoid the precursors - NAC, whey protein, and a diet high in dairy, eggs and

'sulfury' vegetables. In this case there is nothing more you can do to raise

glutathione levels except undergo metals detox. Mercury toxic people lose the

ability to convert cysteine to glutathione, sulfate and taurine (and others?),

thus the high levels. The poor conversion of cysteine to sulfate is the PST

problem that Dr. Rosemary Waring finds in autistics having a high cysteine to

sulfate ratio. Supplementation of taurine and sulfate might spare cysteine to

be more available to make glutathione. Cysteine itself is toxic to neurons (S.

Owens).

About half of mercury toxic people have low plasma cysteine. For those

people, glutathione and it's precursors are very beneficial. Those people need

to supplement the precursors - NAC, whey protein, and a diet high in dairy, eggs

and 'sulfury' vegetables. Mercury is excreted from the liver in bile while

bound to glutathione, so low glutathione levels impair mercury detox. Taurine

is needed for bile production.

((My question - do all conversion processes have to work for glutathione

precursors to become glutathione? Or is this the reason that glutathione itself

is recommended by some? Andy has said that 4 parts NAC to 2 parts glutamine to

1 part glycine is an excellent glutathione boosting formula for those not high

in cysteine.))

Glutamine is sometimes (in Twinlabs?) a component of glutathione blends. It

is recommended for healing leaky guts. If it's improperly processed it can

convert to neurotoxins. Glutamine can convert to Glutamate in individuals who

can't process Glutamine it properly, creating excess Glutamate which is an MSG

like substance that can be neurotoxic. Glutamine can convert to Glutamate in

poorly stored packaging. Glutamate can cause excess ammonia in individuals who

can't process it properly, increasing neurotoxicity.

_____________

** All I know is that my daughter muscle tested weak for glutamine a year ago

so I never gave it to her. She tolerates small amounts of sulfur veggies well

enough, I think, and is tolerating Kirkman's glutathione well. She tolerates an

amino acid blend well also.

[Guest guest]

All,

With glutathione it is much of a muchness whether it is glutamate or glutamine

that goes to make it, both will work, some cells use glutamate and some use

glutamine. Glutathione is the same result in both cases, so in most people these

present no real risk, but in autism there seems to be something terribly wrong

with all of this, perhaps for any of a multitude of reasons which is why

something will have a positive effect for some and a negative effect for others.

Glutamine has a potential to give off ammonia and become Glutamate, Glutamate is

neurotoxic. If things are working well then it is a different story, we get

Glutathione, accepting that there are problems with Glutathione then what can we

do? Alpha Lipoic acid is a potent antioxidant and is said to increase

Glutathione levels, since they are both ranked highly as antioxidants then this

is possibly additional justification to supplement it and/or other antioxidants,

this is what I think the rapid improvement that was noted once on this list

after ALA is due to.

I suspect that you can't troubleshoot Glutathione properly without knowing the

availability of all 3 components, Glutathione and it's status, ie. is it getting

" renewed " ?

Jon.

Re: [ ] STINKY L-Glutathione!!

What a confusing subject...

(Andy said... Glutamate is, among many other things, one of the 3 amino acids

in glutathione. The other 2 are glycine and cysteine.)

(Jon said... Glutathione has glutamine in it, and is an unstable compound that

readily decomposes)

Our Kirkman Reduced L-Glutathione lists L-Glutathione, Plant Cellulose,

Leucine, and Silicon Dioxide. Does this mean that the two active ingredients

are Glutathione and Leucine, two amino acids? Does this mean that Glutamine is

absent from this prep? Is that why Kirkman's Glutathione doesn't smell?

I sure would like to understand this subject. Tear this writeup apart,

anyone. Are these statements correct? They are cobbled together from other's

previous postings.

_____________

We want both Glutathione and Cysteine levels to be mid-range. These are

sulfury compounds that can feed yeast. Cysteine is used to make glutathione.

Some mercury toxic people are too high in cysteine and some are too low. Some

people have reduced glutathione levels because glutathione as an antioxidant

gets used up by mercury, an oxidation catalyst. In other people, the mercury

makes their bodies produce too much glutathione and cysteine, which can mobilize

mercury and make it more toxic via thiols.

About half of mercury toxic people have elevated plasma cysteine. For those

people, glutathione and it's precursors are harmful because, while they raise

glutathione levels, they will also raise cysteine levels. Those people need to

avoid the precursors - NAC, whey protein, and a diet high in dairy, eggs and

'sulfury' vegetables. In this case there is nothing more you can do to raise

glutathione levels except undergo metals detox. Mercury toxic people lose the

ability to convert cysteine to glutathione, sulfate and taurine (and others?),

thus the high levels. The poor conversion of cysteine to sulfate is the PST

problem that Dr. Rosemary Waring finds in autistics having a high cysteine to

sulfate ratio. Supplementation of taurine and sulfate might spare cysteine to

be more available to make glutathione. Cysteine itself is toxic to neurons (S.

Owens).

About half of mercury toxic people have low plasma cysteine. For those

people, glutathione and it's precursors are very beneficial. Those people need

to supplement the precursors - NAC, whey protein, and a diet high in dairy, eggs

and 'sulfury' vegetables. Mercury is excreted from the liver in bile while

bound to glutathione, so low glutathione levels impair mercury detox. Taurine

is needed for bile production.

((My question - do all conversion processes have to work for glutathione

precursors to become glutathione? Or is this the reason that glutathione itself

is recommended by some? Andy has said that 4 parts NAC to 2 parts glutamine to

1 part glycine is an excellent glutathione boosting formula for those not high

in cysteine.))

Glutamine is sometimes (in Twinlabs?) a component of glutathione blends. It

is recommended for healing leaky guts. If it's improperly processed it can

convert to neurotoxins. Glutamine can convert to Glutamate in individuals who

can't process Glutamine it properly, creating excess Glutamate which is an MSG

like substance that can be neurotoxic. Glutamine can convert to Glutamate in

poorly stored packaging. Glutamate can cause excess ammonia in individuals who

can't process it properly, increasing neurotoxicity.

_____________

** All I know is that my daughter muscle tested weak for glutamine a year ago

so I never gave it to her. She tolerates small amounts of sulfur veggies well

enough, I think, and is tolerating Kirkman's glutathione well. She tolerates an

amino acid blend well also.