Guest guest Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 If I make a paste with glycerin as a base (no water) and add clay or oatmeal- and place it in a tube where no water will enter the product- does this paste need a preservative? TIA, Andree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 Water being introduced to the product is a possibility in anything, but that was not my question. Does a product that has a glycerin base need a preservative when other clays or whatever are added to the glycerin? But so you will be aware this would be an amount for a single spa use- discard the container- But out of curiosity, with no water or oil in the paste recipe what preservative would be called for even if it was not necessary? Andree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 In a message dated 1/25/03 11:03:37 AM Pacific Standard Time, AndreeTerry@... writes: > If I make a paste with glycerin as a base (no water) and add clay or > oatmeal- > and place it in a tube where no water will enter the product- does this > paste > need a preservative? TIA, > Andree > Hi Andree, That's a good question, because glycerin in itself does not need to be preserved of course. Even though glycerin is self-preserving, I would probably add a preservative to be on the safe side with these other bacteria-loving ingredients. Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 I would still say yes. I've used a scrub from a tube that I kept in the shower. Water still can get inside. Especially if one leaves the lid off and sets the tube on a small puddle of water, picks up the tube, and the pressure of the picking up the tube squeezes it........it takes in the water. Or if they squeeze the contents onto their wet hand, and some water from their hand comes back into the tube. And some will use it in a bathtub, where it drops into the water. Kids may play with it. ~~ ----- Original Message ----- > If I make a paste with glycerin as a base (no water) and add clay or oatmeal- > and place it in a tube where no water will enter the product- does this paste > need a preservative? TIA, > Andree > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 Oh, now that I misunderstood. I'll be interested to learn with you on this one. ~, who's sitting back and taking notes.~ ----- Original Message ----- > Water being introduced to the product is a possibility in anything, but that > was not my question. > Does a product that has a glycerin base need a preservative when other clays > or whatever are added to the glycerin? > But so you will be aware this would be an amount for a single spa use- > discard the container- > But out of curiosity, with no water or oil in the paste recipe what > preservative would be called for even if it was not necessary? > Andree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 > Water being introduced to the product is a possibility in anything, but that > was not my question. > Does a product that has a glycerin base need a preservative when other clays > or whatever are added to the glycerin? > But so you will be aware this would be an amount for a single spa use- > discard the container- > But out of curiosity, with no water or oil in the paste recipe what > preservative would be called for even if it was not necessary? > Andree > Glycerin alone I believe does not support microbial growth.Its the same as a very strong sugar solution which also does not support microbial growth even though glycerin and sugar at the correct concentrations are ideal food for the little blighters. What adding oatmeal or clay with a possible moisture content would do I am unsure, and if I was pursuing this I would get a challenge test done, but then I would I'm not paying for it. In my opinion adding anydrous clay or oatmeal to glycerin alone, sealing in a moisture free (or virtually moisture free)environment would not lead to a product likely to spoil on storage. Dave E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 Andree, In my opinion the answer is yes. The clays that you add to the glycerin are not sterile and may contain spores. While there may not be any actively growing organisms the spores can lead to spoilage. Young KY Labs Innovators of Fine Personal Products www.kylabs.com Re: question If I make a paste with glycerin as a base (no water) and add clay or oatmeal- and place it in a tube where no water will enter the product- does this paste need a preservative? TIA, Andree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 Or, perhaps you can pack the clay separate to mix as you use it. Will save the $$ a preservative would cost. . = ) Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc http://www.hpsoapbook.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Dee, These two preservatives cost between $4-$5/pound and at the usage level I have suggested the cost is truly incremental. Besides that the cost is not the issue the liability is the real issue. What cost do you place on that??? Young KY Labs Innovators of Fine Personal Products www.kylabs.com Re: question Or, perhaps you can pack the clay separate to mix as you use it. Will save the $$ a preservative would cost. . = ) Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc http://www.hpsoapbook.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 <<Dee, These two preservatives cost between $4-$5/pound and at the usage level I have suggested the cost is truly incremental. Besides that the cost is not the issue the liability is the real issue. What cost do you place on that???>> , I was using logic. Preservatives will not kill spores. The product was a one time use unit to be disposed of if any remained. To package the questionable product with spores (clay) separately and not mix until the product is used would solve the necessity of a preservative in this case since you said the glycerin was not the concern. Once can purchase plastic bags much cheaper than the preservatives. Considering that many people today are looking for " natural " and shy aware from chemical sounding names, the plastic bag idea is valid. If not, if you think a preservative is still needed, then it stands to reason the clay should not sold to use in cosmetics in the first place then. Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc http://www.hpsoapbook.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Dee, It is very difficult to control spores in raw materials just as it is very difficult to prevent you from contaminating them when you measure from the containers. True, parabens will not kill spores but they will prevent them from growing and propagating. While you may be resistant to using biocidal preservatives in your products fortunately most companies selling personal care products do not share your philosophy about using them for safety. Young KY Labs Innovators of Fine Personal Products www.kylabs.com Re: question <<Dee, These two preservatives cost between $4-$5/pound and at the usage level I have suggested the cost is truly incremental. Besides that the cost is not the issue the liability is the real issue. What cost do you place on that???>> , I was using logic. Preservatives will not kill spores. The product was a one time use unit to be disposed of if any remained. To package the questionable product with spores (clay) separately and not mix until the product is used would solve the necessity of a preservative in this case since you said the glycerin was not the concern. Once can purchase plastic bags much cheaper than the preservatives. Considering that many people today are looking for " natural " and shy aware from chemical sounding names, the plastic bag idea is valid. If not, if you think a preservative is still needed, then it stands to reason the clay should not sold to use in cosmetics in the first place then. Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc http://www.hpsoapbook.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 <<<It is very difficult to control spores in raw materials just as it is very difficult to prevent you from contaminating them when you measure from the containers. True, parabens will not kill spores but they will prevent them from growing and propagating.While you may be resistant to using biocidal preservatives in your products fortunately most companies selling personal care products do not share your philosophy about using them for safety.>>>>>> , reread my post. I never said I was resistant to using preservatives and I have even asked on this list which preservative you chemists would recomment for soaps to someone wholesaling to hot humid climates. Perhaps it was offlist. Does not really matter. There obviously is a misunderstanding somewhere so let me ask you this: It sounds as though you are saying whether you mix clay in the glycerin and package the one use unit or if whether you package the clay separately in its own plastic bag you recomment putting a preservative in the clay because spores are in there. If this is true and I understand correctly then I have to ask why since the manufacturer does not seem to think it necessary to preserved the clay? Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc http://www.hpsoapbook.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 In reality, Dee, I think it would prove MORE expensive to package the two ingredients separately, along with mixing ingredients, than to add the parabens (which are SOOOOOO cheap when purchased in their dry form). At the usage level suggested by , it would cost a few cents per pound to preserve the mixture. Packaging once means up to half the materials costs AND reduced labour costs. Not having to include mixing directions further reduces packaging costs. Also makes it a lot more convenient for the customer. Also protects against liability aka customer stupidity (i.e. Jane Doe thinks " hey, I'll have a facial " , mixes up the mask, then her pal ita phones and says " I'm downstairs, let's go for coffee " , so Jane just scrapes the mixture into a leftover cream jar to use when she comes back...or in a couple of days when she remembers it, by which time it's probably teeming with invisible beasties). The 'all natural or die' crowd might prefer the two packets to keep it preservative free, but you'd have to include a BIG warning saying that it had to be used immediately, etc. My $0.02 Jules/Vancouver BC > <<Dee, > > These two preservatives cost between $4-$5/pound and at the usage level > I have suggested the cost is truly incremental. Besides that the cost is > not the issue the liability is the real issue. What cost do you place on > that???>> > > , > > I was using logic. Preservatives will not kill spores. > The product was a one time use unit to be disposed of if > any remained. To package the questionable product with > spores (clay) separately and not mix until the product is > used would solve the necessity of a preservative in this > case since you said the glycerin was not the concern. > Once can purchase plastic bags much cheaper than the > preservatives. Considering that many people today are > looking for " natural " and shy aware from chemical sounding > names, the plastic bag idea is valid. If not, if you think > a preservative is still needed, then it stands to reason the > clay should not sold to use in cosmetics in the first place > then. > > > Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> > > http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc > http://www.hpsoapbook.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 <<<<In reality, Dee, I think it would prove MORE expensive to package the two ingredients separately, along with mixing ingredients, than to add the parabens (which are SOOOOOO cheap when purchased in their dry form). >>>>> That would depend on where you buy your supplies and who you are selling to. Preservative would be more expensive if the spa being sold to caters to the naturalists and the product does sell. I offered up my suggest to the person who posted and I am sure she is capable of choosing what is best for her as I wait for to respond to my last question regarding what he said. Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc http://www.hpsoapbook.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 My husband and I were tested last week to see if we are a carrier but we haven't gotten the results yet. How did you find out about your sons diagnosis? was tested after birth at about six weeks old because of hypotonia, feeding issues, and ASD. They originally suspected this diagnosis, but because of a negative amnio during pregnancy further testing was delayed. Thank you for your response. I have never heard of this form of mosaic down syndrome before. ( 5 months old, MDS, ASD, G-tube ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 , As Kristy said, all it means is the chromosomes are organized a little different. My son Tyler has MTDS. Our doctor wanted My husband and I tested to see if one of us was a carrier of DS. He said that 1/3 of the time whan a child has translocation DS a parent is a carrier. For a parent to be a carrier of DS, they have translocation of the chromosomes, but the correct number of chromsomes. Both my husband and I are NOT carriers. You may want to ask your doctor if he wants you to get tested. Just something to think about. Lots of luck with your little gift. Debbie (mom to Troy (11, ADHD) Tyler (9, MTDS) ane Shane (almost 3 (in 26 days)) > > I just got the clinical note in the mail from my daughter's genetics doctor > and it said she had > robertsonian translocation mosaic trisomy 21. I know about MDS, but I have > never heard of the robertsonian translocation type. They have never even > mentioned it before. Does anyone know what that means or have you ever heard of it > before? I never have. mom to 5 months old ( MDS, ASD, G-tube) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 , Hello! My daughter Naomi (age 8) also has Mosaic Translocation Down Syndrome (MTDS). We did not know that she had any type of Down Syndrome until the day she was born. She was born with a heart defect (AVSD), so she was transferred to Yale Children's Hospital in New Haven (we live in CT) the day she was born. The geneticists did the bloodwork for DS testing at Yale.... and when they called me with the results a few weeks later, the doctor said that she had the Mosaic Translocation DS which was VERY VERY rare... they had actually never seen a case like hers (don't you love it when they say that?) and performed the test twice to make sure there was no mistake! They also had my husband and I come in for bloodwork to make sure that we were not carriers... and neither of us are carriers. Enjoy your little one, I'm sure she's a cutie! Have a great day, Nathalie from CT mom to (11), Naomi (8, MTDS) and Anne (6) ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 16:24:28 EST > From: JESSICAJEM1977@... > Subject: Question > > I just got the clinical note in the mail from my daughter's genetics doctor > and it said she had > robertsonian translocation mosaic trisomy 21. I know about MDS, but I have > never heard of the robertsonian translocation type. They have never even > mentioned it before. Does anyone know what that means or have you ever heard of it > before? I never have. mom to 5 months old ( MDS, ASD, G-tube) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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