Re: Chemicals used in Cosmetics (coconut oil in soap)

[Guest guest]

<<<<Coconut in excess in soap can be

irritating and drying to the skin,...>>>>>>>>>>

This is a myth. Coconut and Palm Kernel

clean sebum from the skin, while other oils

do not. That is why it *may* feel drying in

higher amounts, but if one balances out the

properties of the oils (in other words adding

the correct oils to replace this loss of self

conditioning sebum) then one can use these oils

in high percentages and not get this drying

effect.

Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>

http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc

http://www.hpsoapbook.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/1/2003 3:23:41 AM Central Standard Time,

pjdxxxwa@... writes:

> <<<<Coconut in excess in soap can be irritating and drying to the skin,...>>>

> >>>>>>>

>

> This is a myth. Coconut and Palm Kernel clean sebum from the skin, while

> other oils do not. That is why it *may* feel drying in higher amounts, but

> if one balances out the properties of the oils (in other words adding the

> correct oils to replace this loss of self conditioning sebum) then one can

> use these oils in high percentages and not get this drying effect.

I don't believe there is any disagreement here. The problem is that

many handmade soaps are not balanced like you teach your students and that

coconut in those many IS excessive, as many of us have experienced. In those

" non-balanced " formulations, there's no question it feels drying because it

has stripped the skin-conditioning sebum. Some of the gals in your class

have experimented with all coconut at unbelievably high superfat levels in an

effort to subdue some of this harshness (with interesting success, too).

No one is saying the coconut oil itself is harsh but, " in excess in

soap " in a great many cases (soapmakers who don't use caution about balancing

or don't know how), it can have an irritating and drying effect.

I believe this listing refers to varied conditions of use, most

definitely not all. Condition of use is a wide area that changes with each

application, as in the coconut oil in soap example. If that weren't true, I

could put together two or more individually stable ingredients and assume

that preservation weren't necessary ... I'm sure you'd agree that would be a

very dangerous presumption under that condition of use.

-

[Guest guest]

> <<<<Coconut in excess in soap can be

> irritating and drying to the skin,...>>>>>>>>>>

>

> This is a myth. Coconut and Palm Kernel

> clean sebum from the skin, while other oils

> do not. That is why it *may* feel drying in

> higher amounts, but if one balances out the

> properties of the oils (in other words adding

> the correct oils to replace this loss of self

> conditioning sebum) then one can use these oils

> in high percentages and not get this drying

> effect.

>

Commercial soap makers tend to superfat with coconut fatty acid, not

coconut oil. This is known to be drying.

Dave E

[Guest guest]

<< Coconut and Palm Kernel

clean sebum from the skin, while other oils

do not. >>

Dee,

On this theory, why do coconut and palm kernel oils, in specific, remove the

sebum and not other oils?

Marie Gale

Chandler's Soaps

www.chandlerssoaps.com

[Guest guest]

<<<<I believe this listing refers to varied conditions of use, most

definitely not all. Condition of use is a wide area that changes with each

application, as in the coconut oil in soap example.>>>>

Yes, I know it was, but I did not want new soap makers misunderstanding

that one line because that myth is out there on the Net, same as the

misinformation about cosmetic making. =) Just clarifying.

Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>

http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc

http://www.hpsoapbook.com

[Guest guest]

<<<Commercial soap makers tend to superfat with coconut fatty acid, not coconut

oil. This is known to be drying.

Dave E >>>>

Hi Dave,

Yes commercial makers are the reason there are

handcrafted true soap makers making a decent

living this trade.

Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>

http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc

http://www.hpsoapbook.com

[Guest guest]

<<<<Dee,

On this theory, why do coconut and palm kernel oils, in specific, remove the

sebum and not other oils?>>>>>>>

It is fact for those of use who practive it but it is due

to the fact that they have different molecular composition.

Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>

http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc

http://www.hpsoapbook.com

[Guest guest]

My understanding when I joined this list, was that this list was not for

" soapmakers " to dominate, but more a concentration on cosmetics, not as it

relates to " soapmaking " .

Re: Chemicals used in Cosmetics (coconut oil in soap)

<<<<I believe this listing refers to varied conditions of use, most

definitely not all. Condition of use is a wide area that changes with each

application, as in the coconut oil in soap example.>>>>

Yes, I know it was, but I did not want new soap makers misunderstanding

that one line because that myth is out there on the Net, same as the

misinformation about cosmetic making. =) Just clarifying.

Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>

[Guest guest]

Dee, have you got any substantive proof for this?

I am aware that the primary fatty acids in coconut oil (lauric &

myristic) make a soap that can clean the skin TOO effectively (hence

the 'drying' action), but I've NEVER seen anyone claim that only

those soaps remove sebum from the skin.

Chemically speaking that makes no sense to me, but I'm not one of the

list chemists.

I'd be interested in seeing the information source where you got this

from.

I'm also confused why you say " it's a myth " - your own comment seems

to support the fact that when used in excess, coconut oil soaps can

be drying.

What oils " replace " sebum on the skin?

Jules/Vancouver BC

> <<<<Coconut in excess in soap can be

> irritating and drying to the skin,...>>>>>>>>>>

>

> This is a myth. Coconut and Palm Kernel

> clean sebum from the skin, while other oils

> do not. That is why it *may* feel drying in

> higher amounts, but if one balances out the

> properties of the oils (in other words adding

> the correct oils to replace this loss of self

> conditioning sebum) then one can use these oils

> in high percentages and not get this drying

> effect.

>

> Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>

>

> http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc

> http://www.hpsoapbook.com

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

<<<I am aware that the primary fatty acids in coconut oil (lauric &

myristic) make a soap that can clean the skin TOO effectively (hence

the 'drying' action), but I've NEVER seen anyone claim that only

those soaps remove sebum from the skin.>>

Did I say that coconut and PK are the only oils that clean

this way or did I say they were the two that could strip sebum

enough to feel like it was drying to the skin?

I thought I said the myth with these two oils being drying is

that they clean too well and strip sebum and when using higher

amounts of these two one needs to balance a recipe to leave some

oil on the skin so it does not feel dried out. Sorry if I was not

clear enough in how I responded to this misconcetion.

Good night.

Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>

http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc

http://www.hpsoapbook.com

[Guest guest]

> My understanding when I joined this list, was that this list was not for

" soapmakers " to dominate, but more a concentration on cosmetics, not as it

relates to " soapmaking " .

Your understanding is correct . This is not a soap list nor is it a

newbie list. I don't want to put a complete ban on discussing soap because

most of us make it. I have requested the members to limit their discussion

of bar soap on the list.

I didn't see a need for another soap list when I started CosmeticInfo. If I

had I would have named the list SoapInfo. I still don't see a need for

another soap list, there are 155 listed under the soapmaking heading alone

on Yahoo. This does not take into consideration all of the other soap lists

that are under different headings. There is definitely a need for Cosmetic

Information and this is the need that we fill. There are a few people on the

list that don't seem to get this yet.

Pat. List owner.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

pat@...

http://www.houseofscents.com/

> Re: Chemicals used in Cosmetics (coconut oil in

soap)

>

>

> <<<<I believe this listing refers to varied conditions of use, most

> definitely not all. Condition of use is a wide area that changes with

each application, as in the coconut oil in soap example.>>>>

>

> Yes, I know it was, but I did not want new soap makers misunderstanding

> that one line because that myth is out there on the Net, same as the

> misinformation about cosmetic making. ==) Just clarifying.

>

> Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>

[Guest guest]

HI

Thats right.. and if you go through the archives I think you'll find that 90% of

the info is on cosmetics.

Sutton

My understanding when I joined this list, was that this list was not for

" soapmakers " to dominate, but more a concentration on cosmetics, not as it

relates to " soapmaking " .

----- Original Message -----