Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Does anyone know if alpha-hydroxy acids would survive saponification? thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 <<< Does anyone know if alpha-hydroxy acids would survive saponification? thanks, >>>> , AHA 's function is to eat away at dead skin to provide the face with a more youthful look - to put it bluntly according to what Dermatology sites say, which makes them drugs. Do you want your soap in that classification? You can get the same effect (somewhat) by just putting in some exfolilation ingredient. You have many to choose from: oats, corn meal, pumice and poppyseeds....an not have to worry about your soap being seen as a drug by the FDA. Dee ><((((º>·.¸:.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º> http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/HotSoapEtc http://www.hpsoapbook.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 --- " JLJ " <sagehill@g...> wrote: > > Does anyone know if alpha-hydroxy acids would survive > saponification? > > thanks, > Hi , The acids that make up the AHAs (alpha-hydroxy acids) are only considered AHAs when they are in solution at a certain percentage and at a pH of ~3.5. For the AHA effect to take place the acids must be at a certain pH and concentration level. Otherwise, they are just weak acids. In saponification with sodium hydroxide the following is produced: citric acid => sodium citrate (chelating agent, water softener) lactic acid => sodium lactate (extremely strong humectant) glycolic acid => sodium glycolate (???) malic acid => sodium malate (???) OTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 > > > > Does anyone know if alpha-hydroxy acids would survive > > saponification? > > > > thanks, > > > No. The way to add AHA's is after saponification and during re-milling. We are looking at a soap with 1% salicylic acid (a BHA), and 1% malic acid. Its still not at the production stage, and I have had problems with " soft " soap on the pilot plant. I intend coating the malic acid in a coconut Fatty Acid/Stearic Acid blend before adding it to the soap noodles to see if this works (tip from an ex Cussons Chemist). Whether the AHA keeps its properties in the soap will have to be assessed, but I know of soaps in the African market with this type of combination. Solid soap is complex, with free fatty acids existing with free alkali, hopefully the malic acid will remain intacked until required when washing. I see a big difference between commercial soap and homemade soap in the water content. Commercial soap is usually 9-12% water, whilst homemade soap can be 20% or higher. This might affect the reaction kinetics of the solid soap and malic acid combination, making it a non starter for home crafters? The malic acid/salicylic acid combination acts as an exfollient in skin lightening soap, and gives a " tingle " to the soap. Dave Eastham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 > The acids that make up the AHAs (alpha-hydroxy acids) are only > considered AHAs when they are in solution at a certain percentage and > at a pH of ~3.5. I was always under the impression that alpha hydroxy acids were alpha hydroxy acids because of their chemistry, not their dilution or pH. > For the AHA effect to take place the acids must be at a certain pH and concentration level. To be safely used, that is accurate. In their " Final Report on the Safety Assessment of Glycolic Acid; Ammonium, Calcium, Potassium, and Sodium Glycolate; Methyl, Ethyl, Propyl, and Butyl Glycolate; Lactic Acid; Ammonium, Calcium, Potassium, Sodium and TEA-Lactate; and Methyl, Ethyl, Isopropyl, Butyl Lauryl, Myristyl, and Cetyl Lactate " , the CIR Expert Panel concluded that " Glycolic and Lactic Acid, their common salts and their simple esters, are safe for use in cosmetic products at concentrations equal to 10% or less, at final formulation pH equal to 3.5 or less, when formulated to avoid increasing sun sensitivity or when directions for use include the daily use of sun protection. These ingredients are safe for use in salon products at concentrations equal to 30% or less, at final formulation pH equal to 3.0 or less, in products designed for brief, discontinuous use followed by thorough rinsing from the skin, when applied by trained professionals, and when application is accompanied by directions for the daily use of sun protection. " > OTW FYI: " When you post, always sign your real name. We like to know the identity of the person we are having a conversation with. " http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo/files/ADMIN%20Folder/ADMIN_%20READ.tx\ t Maurice -------------------------------------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com ------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 Thanks for a good explanation, OTW. Actually, once I read your post I realized that I should have known this, having taken college chemistry. In my defense though, I should say that Chem 101 and 102 were not my favorite subjects, plus I took them some 20 years ago, and worse, I've been raising goats for the last 5-6 years which doesn't require much college knowlege, much less chemistry... can we say, " brain atrophy " ? lol However, now that I am making soaps, etc, and actually have a practical application for it, I'm becoming interested in chemistry again. thanks again! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The acids that make up the AHAs (alpha-hydroxy acids) are only considered AHAs when they are in solution at a certain percentage and at a pH of ~3.5. For the AHA effect to take place the acids must be at a certain pH and concentration level. Otherwise, they are just weak acids. In saponification with sodium hydroxide the following is produced: citric acid => sodium citrate (chelating agent, water softener) lactic acid => sodium lactate (extremely strong humectant) glycolic acid => sodium glycolate (???) malic acid => sodium malate (???) OTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2003 Report Share Posted February 13, 2003 > > > The acids that make up the AHAs (alpha-hydroxy acids) are only > > considered AHAs when they are in solution at a certain percentage > > and at a pH of ~3.5. > > I was always under the impression that alpha hydroxy acids were > alpha hydroxy acids because of their chemistry, not their dilution > or pH. > Your right, I worded that poorly. I should have said that to achieve the alpha-hydroxy " effect " a specific solution concentration and pH range are required. T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2003 Report Share Posted February 13, 2003 > > Thanks for a good explanation, OTW. > You're most welcome. I have questions along the same lines as yours. Does anyone know what happens to the following substances in a sodium hydroxide solution? - Urea USP - Saccharide Hydrolysate - Magnesium Aspartate Thanks! T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 Funny I thought OTW - stood for 'off the wall' you changed your name by deed poll OTW? M. Re: AHA and saponification | | > | > Thanks for a good explanation, OTW. | > | | You're most welcome. | | I have questions along the same lines as yours. Does anyone know | what happens to the following substances in a sodium hydroxide | solution? | | - Urea USP | - Saccharide Hydrolysate | - Magnesium Aspartate | | Thanks! | | T. | | | | | | | | Post message: Cosmeticinfo | Subscribe: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo | Unsubscribe: Cosmeticinfo-unsubscribe | List owner: Cosmeticinfo-owner | URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo | | | | | Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 >Does anyone know > what happens to the following substances in a sodium hydroxide > solution? > > - Urea USP > - Saccharide Hydrolysate > - Magnesium Aspartate I suggest you contact Induchem. http://www.induchem.com Coincidentally, they sell a product called Unimoist U-125. The INCI name is " Glycerin (and) Urea (and) Saccharide Hydrolyzate (and) Magnesium Aspartate (and) Glycine (and) Alanine (and) Creatine " . If you live in the US, you can contact Induchem's US distributor, Lipo Chemicals http://www.lipochemicals.com/ The technical service email address is: technicalservices@... Maurice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 In a message dated 2/15/03 5:19:03 PM Alaskan Standard Time, otw777@... writes: > I know that the glycine and alanine are > becoming sodium glycniate and sodium analinate respectively, and > posibbly the magnesium aspartate to sodium aspartate - all of which > would add a slight uncalculated lye discount to my soap. > > Doesn't this mean that you are adding extra ingredients just to superfat your soap? Sage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 > > >Does anyone know > > what happens to the following substances in a sodium hydroxide > > solution? > > > > - Urea USP > > - Saccharide Hydrolysate > > - Magnesium Aspartate > > I suggest you contact Induchem. > http://www.induchem.com > > Coincidentally, they sell a product called Unimoist U-125. The > INCI name is " Glycerin (and) Urea (and) Saccharide Hydrolyzate > (and) Magnesium Aspartate (and) Glycine (and) Alanine (and) > Creatine " . > > If you live in the US, you can contact Induchem's US distributor, > Lipo Chemicals > http://www.lipochemicals.com/ > > The technical service email address is: > technicalservices@l... > > Maurice Thanks Maurice! I have some samples of Unimoist U-125 that I received from Lipo Chemicals. I added some to a cold processed batch of soap at trace and I really like the qualities that it has added to my soap. I have added a ton of extra glycerin to CP soap before so I know it's not the glycerin. I know that the glycine and alanine are becoming sodium glycniate and sodium analinate respectively, and posibbly the magnesium aspartate to sodium aspartate - all of which would add a slight uncalculated lye discount to my soap. I'll give Lipo Chemicals a call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2003 Report Share Posted February 16, 2003 > In a message dated 2/15/03 5:19:03 PM Alaskan Standard Time, otw777@y... > writes: > > > > I know that the glycine and alanine are > > becoming sodium glycniate and sodium analinate respectively, and > > posibbly the magnesium aspartate to sodium aspartate - all of > > which would add a slight uncalculated lye discount to my soap. > > > > Doesn't this mean that you are adding extra ingredients just to > superfat your soap? > > Sage > Yes and no. I am not adding these ingredients just to superfat my soap, in fact, I am trying to find out to what extent these ingredients may be superfatting my soap - I suspect very little. I am enjoying the qualities that Unimoist U-125 provides my soap. There are 7 ingredients in Unimoist U-125: Glycerin, Urea, Saccharide Hydrolyzate, Magnesium Aspartate, Glycine, Alanine, and Creatine. The primary ingredient in order of predominance, glycerin, cannot make up less that 14% of Unimoist U-125. The subsquent ingredients make up 14% or less. Given that Glycine and Alanine are at the tail end of the order of predominance it is likely that they make up a very small percent of Unimoist U-125. Hence, very little additional superfatting. Since I have added extra glycerin to soap I know that the qualites of Unimoist U-125 that I am enjoying are not due to extra glycerin in the soap. So that leaves the other 6 ingredients in question. My curiousity stems around what happens in a sodium hydroxide solution to the following: Urea, Saccharide Hydrolyzate, and Magnesium Aspartate. (I'll call Lipo Chemical on Monday as was suggested) T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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