Re: Any ideas for a woman exposed to drug smoke from neighboring unit?

[Guest guest]

Henry:Do you have any insight as to the pathway of transmission of this smoke, as this pathway needs to be understood to be able to mitigate it.Options for mitigation include both pathway sealing and pressure modifications,such as adding an air-to-air heat exchanger, restricting the exhaust side to over pressure thecondo unit being impacted. Life Energy Associateswww.LifeEnergyAssoc.com20 Darton StreetConcord, MA 01742To: iequality Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:28:20 PMSubject: Any ideas for a woman exposed to drug smoke from neighboring unit?

Friends and colleagues:

A woman called to say she was exposed to significant amount of smoke from her neighbor, who has a disability and is prescribed opiates. She believes he supplements these with additional substances, especially toward the end of the month. Although units are now condos, they were built as apartments, and have some connections (a common condensate drain) which no longer meet code. She can't afford much. The insurance adjuster has been to visit.

The amounts of substance that entered her apartment were large enough to make her high, and then sick, with seizures. My impression is that she is intolerant to this substance.

She left her belongings behind a few weeks ago when she went to the hospital, then to another residence. I suggested that someone go in and put a box fan in a window. This would blow outside air into the unit , both to help remove any residues, and to help keep further fumes from coming from his unit. Outside air will have humidity; this is in Florida.

So, my quick questions:

1) Ever run into anything like this before? I mean, he's smoking so much she gets high? What IS he smoking?

2) Any ideas on how stuff in the unit can be tested? Do you know of any federal agency that might be able to test surfaces or samples from her home? (The state cannot.) She didn't think in time to get blood or urine tests done with any kind of drug screen, so she really doesn't know what she's been exposed to. But she'd like to know.

3) Do you have experience with cleaning something like this? I'm assuming it's like tobacco smoke, Exposed items include clothing, books, papers, china, and antique furniture. I'd certainly suggest wiping walls and ceiling , and replacing carpet,

4) Any other thoughts?

Thankx!

Henry Slack

US EPA Region 4

Atlanta GA

[Guest guest]

Hi, Henry.

I've seen the scenario a number of times. Unless you can get the neighbor to cease being the source (quit smoking), you are going to need someone who knows how to investigate and seal building pathways. Without cooperation from building management and a willingness to actually find the pathways and seal them, the best decision for the victim may be to move.

In one apt complex I did work in, the forced air systems were so badly fabricated that not only was the cigarette smoke getting in from the downstairs neighbor, feathers from the upstairs neighbor's bird were coming out of her supply registers. She moved.

Building construction details have to be looked at carefully, especially chases for common systems/utilities. To try to maintain a continuous pressure differential is not likely to be feasible (esp in FL). As for IDing the contaminant, maybe she could invite others to smell it and tell her what they think it smells like.

Accumulation of a significant amount of residue in need of cleaning from the smoke infiltration is not likely. It is certainly possible that she is reacting at very low exposure concentrations and any amount entering her unit is a problem for her.

Steve Temes

Any ideas for a woman exposed to drug smoke from neighboring unit?

Friends and colleagues:

A woman called to say she was exposed to significant amount of smoke from her neighbor, who has a disability and is prescribed opiates. She believes he supplements these with additional substances, especially toward the end of the month. Although units are now condos, they were built as apartments, and have some connections (a common condensate drain) which no longer meet code. She can't afford much. The insurance adjuster has been to visit.

The amounts of substance that entered her apartment were large enough to make her high, and then sick, with seizures. My impression is that she is intolerant to this substance.

She left her belongings behind a few weeks ago when she went to the hospital, then to another residence. I suggested that someone go in and put a box fan in a window. This would blow outside air into the unit , both to help remove any residues, and to help keep further fumes from coming from his unit. Outside air will have humidity; this is in Florida.

So, my quick questions:

1) Ever run into anything like this before? I mean, he's smoking so much she gets high? What IS he smoking?

2) Any ideas on how stuff in the unit can be tested? Do you know of any federal agency that might be able to test surfaces or samples from her home? (The state cannot.) She didn't think in time to get blood or urine tests done with any kind of drug screen, so she really doesn't know what she's been exposed to. But she'd like to know.

3) Do you have experience with cleaning something like this? I'm assuming it's like tobacco smoke, Exposed items include clothing, books, papers, china, and antique furniture. I'd certainly suggest wiping walls and ceiling , and replacing carpet,

4) Any other thoughts?

Thankx!

Henry Slack

US EPA Region 4

Atlanta GA

[Guest guest]

Henry

Virginia Salares (now retired as well as myself) may know more about this sort of thing, or provide the name of someone who has taken over what she did at CMHC (no one may have done that, due to downsizing). I could try to contact her if you think that is necessary.

A box fan may or may not do the pressurization well enough, but if a couple of cans of urethane spray foam are used first to seal all plumbing, electrical and communication chases, plus any missing firestops, between units the chances will go way up. Leak testing is always a good idea, after the foaming, to see which way the tracer goes; others may remember the name of the more-recent smoke pencils.

Washing with TSP and double rinsing may remove most of the smoke residue. I have watched that being done and it is amazing how much residue can exist on walls and especially ceilings. Priming and painting afterwards with a low toxicity paint completes the job. Pebble/popcorn or otherwise-textured ceilings are a real bit** to clean properly, but overpainting without precleaning does not work as the tars, etc., mix with the wet paint and come to the surface as the paint dries. Almost all disaster cleanup sealants (Kilz, etc.) are not acceptable to the already sensitive.

Shampooing carpets sometimes works, but the underpads may disintegrate during the process; they may have to be replaced or omitted.

Clothing can sometimes be cleaned well enough if soaked in washing soda or borax, then washed and double-rinsed and dried in a clothes drier; hanging outdoors does not always do as well, let alone better, since the tumble drying is part of the process. Use of the little studded plastic balls instead of drier sheets or liquids helps do the job even better by micro-distorting the fabrics and allowing the contaminants to break off with the surface dirt. the drier fan then moves them on outdoors. This should not be done in her unit!

It costs a fortune to properly clean books, papers etc. Sealing the necessary ones well in taped plastic or metal containers is a good way to avoid exposure; in a pinch a none-sensitive person can photocopy needed papers so that she can read them. Have her find out which photocopiers are acceptable to her, beforehand.

Hope this helps some; get back to me about rousing Virginia from her retirement.

Jim H. White

Note: There no longer is a System Science Consulting. It has been shut down to allow me to write.

Any ideas for a woman exposed to drug smoke from neighboring unit?

Friends and colleagues:A woman called to say she was exposed to significant amount of smoke from her neighbor, who has a disability and is prescribed opiates. She believes he supplements these with additional substances, especially toward the end of the month. Although units are now condos, they were built as apartments, and have some connections (a common condensate drain) which no longer meet code. She can't afford much. The insurance adjuster has been to visit.The amounts of substance that entered her apartment were large enough to make her high, and then sick, with seizures. My impression is that she is intolerant to this substance. She left her belongings behind a few weeks ago when she went to the hospital, then to another residence. I suggested that someone go in and put a box fan in a window. This would blow outside air into the unit , both to help remove any residues, and to help keep further fumes from coming from his unit. Outside air will have humidity; this is in Florida. So, my quick questions: 1) Ever run into anything like this before? I mean, he's smoking so much she gets high? What IS he smoking?2) Any ideas on how stuff in the unit can be tested? Do you know of any federal agency that might be able to test surfaces or samples from her home? (The state cannot.) She didn't think in time to get blood or urine tests done with any kind of drug screen, so she really doesn't know what she's been exposed to. But she'd like to know. 3) Do you have experience with cleaning something like this? I'm assuming it's like tobacco smoke, Exposed items include clothing, books, papers, china, and antique furniture. I'd certainly suggest wiping walls and ceiling , and replacing carpet, 4) Any other thoughts? Thankx!Henry SlackUS EPA Region 4Atlanta GA

[Guest guest]

Wonder if there would be enough residue for testing on insulation around

electrical boxes or other penetrations through party wall or edges of carpet?

Sherryl Schultz

Ihspirit@...

------------------------------

>

>Friends and colleagues:

>

>A woman called to say she was exposed to significant amount of smoke

>from her neighbor, who has a disability and is prescribed opiates. She

>believes he supplements these with additional substances, especially

>toward the end of the month. Although units are now condos, they were

>built as apartments, and have some connections (a common condensate

>drain) which no longer meet code. She can't afford much. The insurance

>adjuster has been to visit.

>

>The amounts of substance that entered her apartment were large enough to

>make her high, and then sick, with seizures. My impression is that she

>is intolerant to this substance.

>

>She left her belongings behind a few weeks ago when she went to the

>hospital, then to another residence. I suggested that someone go in and

>put a box fan in a window. This would blow outside air into the unit ,

>both to help remove any residues, and to help keep further fumes from

>coming from his unit. Outside air will have humidity; this is in

>Florida.

>

>So, my quick questions:

>

>1) Ever run into anything like this before? I mean, he's smoking so

>much she gets high? What IS he smoking?

>

>2) Any ideas on how stuff in the unit can be tested? Do you know of

>any federal agency that might be able to test surfaces or samples from

>her home? (The state cannot.) She didn't think in time to get blood or

>urine tests done with any kind of drug screen, so she really doesn't

>know what she's been exposed to. But she'd like to know.

>

>3) Do you have experience with cleaning something like this? I'm

>assuming it's like tobacco smoke, Exposed items include clothing, books,

>papers, china, and antique furniture. I'd certainly suggest wiping

>walls and ceiling , and replacing carpet,

>

>4) Any other thoughts?

>

>Thankx!

>

>

>Henry Slack

>US EPA Region 4

>Atlanta GA

[Guest guest]

Hello Henry,

Others have provided very good and useful information, so I'll just attempt to build upon and offer my own perspectives to what's already been said. I've encountered situations involving both cigarette & marijuana smoke and have mainly solved them with finding and sealing pathways, dilution using outside air with air to air energy exchangers & pressurization of the affected units, which can be challenging.

One of the greatest challenges is finding the pathways between the units, particularly without tearing out sheetrock. Doing so makes it less challenging but notably more expensive. Visual observations of construction materials where accessible and the attention paid to detail during the original construction such as the quality of workmanship can be quite helpful in providing clues if enough area can be observed such as in unfinished basement & attic spaces. A Laser Particle Counter is an invaluable tool in tracking down pathways, but must of course, be done while the offensive smoke is being actively generated. Again, sheetrock tends to get in the way of major detailed revelations.

As you know, there are numerous and varied additional considerations both in tracking down the offending agent(s), potential contributing factors and ultimately mitigating these types of situations including relocation of the individual or managing, as opposed to "solving" the problem(s). Also, odors can be an extremely powerful stimuli, capable of generating very strong emotional reactions, both positive and negative and the negative reactions can result in significant amounts of stress. That is NOT to say that the reactions of the individual are not "real", but it is possible that those reactions are compounded or amplified.

Like most everything having to do with assessments, objectively identifying, fitting together, and following the trail(s) of multiple clues is likely the best general course of action, which I also describe at times as being like playing three-dimensional chess in zero gravity.

Let us know how it turns out, please.

Best,

Chuck Reaney, CIEC, CIAQP

Alpha Environmental, Inc.

Any ideas for a woman exposed to drug smoke from neighboring unit?

Friends and colleagues:A woman called to say she was exposed to significant amount of smoke from her neighbor, who has a disability and is prescribed opiates. She believes he supplements these with additional substances, especially toward the end of the month. Although units are now condos, they were built as apartments, and have some connections (a common condensate drain) which no longer meet code. She can't afford much. The insurance adjuster has been to visit.The amounts of substance that entered her apartment were large enough to make her high, and then sick, with seizures. My impression is that she is intolerant to this substance. She left her belongings behind a few weeks ago when she went to the hospital, then to another residence. I suggested that someone go in and put a box fan in a window. This would blow outside air into the unit , both to help remove any residues, and to help keep further fumes from coming from his unit. Outside air will have humidity; this is in Florida. So, my quick questions: 1) Ever run into anything like this before? I mean, he's smoking so much she gets high? What IS he smoking?2) Any ideas on how stuff in the unit can be tested? Do you know of any federal agency that might be able to test surfaces or samples from her home? (The state cannot.) She didn't think in time to get blood or urine tests done with any kind of drug screen, so she really doesn't know what she's been exposed to. But she'd like to know. 3) Do you have experience with cleaning something like this? I'm assuming it's like tobacco smoke, Exposed items include clothing, books, papers, china, and antique furniture. I'd certainly suggest wiping walls and ceiling , and replacing carpet, 4) Any other thoughts? Thankx!Henry SlackUS EPA Region 4Atlanta GA

[Guest guest]

Henry:Another tool that can be useful in identifying air pathways is the older Wizard Stick or newer Dragon Pufferfrom Zero toys that is basically a hand held smoke generator. Bearg, PELife Energy Associateswww.LifeEnergyAssoc.com20 Darton StreetConcord, MA 01742To: iequality Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:39:39 PMSubject: Re: Any ideas for a woman exposed to drug smoke from neighboring unit?

Hello Henry,

Others have provided very good and useful information, so I'll just attempt to build upon and offer my own perspectives to what's already been said. I've encountered situations involving both cigarette & marijuana smoke and have mainly solved them with finding and sealing pathways, dilution using outside air with air to air energy exchangers & pressurization of the affected units, which can be challenging.

One of the greatest challenges is finding the pathways between the units, particularly without tearing out sheetrock. Doing so makes it less challenging but notably more expensive. Visual observations of construction materials where accessible and the attention paid to detail during the original construction such as the quality of workmanship can be quite helpful in providing clues if enough area can be observed such as in unfinished basement & attic spaces. A Laser Particle Counter is an invaluable tool in tracking down pathways, but must of course, be done while the offensive smoke is being actively generated. Again, sheetrock tends to get in the way of major detailed revelations.

As you know, there are numerous and varied additional considerations both in tracking down the offending agent(s), potential contributing factors and ultimately mitigating these types of situations including relocation of the individual or managing, as opposed to "solving" the problem(s). Also, odors can be an extremely powerful stimuli, capable of generating very strong emotional reactions, both positive and negative and the negative reactions can result in significant amounts of stress. That is NOT to say that the reactions of the individual are not "real", but it is possible that those reactions are compounded or amplified.

Like most everything having to do with assessments, objectively identifying, fitting together, and following the trail(s) of multiple clues is likely the best general course of action, which I also describe at times as being like playing three-dimensional chess in zero gravity.

Let us know how it turns out, please.

Best,

Chuck Reaney, CIEC, CIAQP

Alpha Environmental, Inc.

Any ideas for a woman exposed to drug smoke from neighboring unit?

Friends and colleagues:A woman called to say she was exposed to significant amount of smoke from her neighbor, who has a disability and is prescribed opiates. She believes he supplements these with additional substances, especially toward the end of the month. Although units are now condos, they were built as apartments, and have some connections (a common condensate drain) which no longer meet code. She can't afford much. The insurance adjuster has been to visit.The amounts of substance that entered her apartment were large enough to make her high, and then sick, with seizures. My impression is that she is intolerant to this substance. She left her belongings behind a few weeks ago when she went to the hospital, then to another residence. I suggested that someone go in and put a box fan in a window. This would blow outside air into the unit , both to help remove any residues, and to help keep further fumes from coming from his unit. Outside air will have humidity; this is in Florida. So, my quick questions: 1) Ever run into anything like this before? I mean, he's smoking so much she gets high? What IS he smoking?2) Any ideas on how stuff in the unit can be tested? Do you know of any federal agency that might be able to test surfaces or samples from her home? (The state cannot.) She didn't think in time to get blood or urine tests done with any kind of drug screen, so she really doesn't know what she's been exposed to. But she'd like to know. 3) Do you have experience with cleaning something like this? I'm assuming it's like tobacco smoke, Exposed items include clothing, books, papers, china, and antique furniture. I'd certainly suggest wiping walls and ceiling , and replacing carpet, 4) Any other thoughts? Thankx!Henry SlackUS EPA Region 4Atlanta GA

[Guest guest]

Henry

If you use the dogs, don't forget to film the process!

Jim

SV: Any ideas for a woman exposed to drug smoke from neighboring unit?

You have some fascinating cases Henry !

Maybe its time to bring in the big dogs… or rather the narcotic dogs …

Maybe they can sniff up the source of penetration from one apartment to the other …

Best Regards

Med vennlig hilsenOle Carlson

Seniorrådgiver Mycoteam AS Norway

Fra: iequality [mailto:iequality ] På vegne av Henry SlackSendt: 18. juli 2012 18:28Til: iequality Emne: Any ideas for a woman exposed to drug smoke from neighboring unit?

Friends and colleagues:A woman called to say she was exposed to significant amount of smoke from her neighbor, who has a disability and is prescribed opiates. She believes he supplements these with additional substances, especially toward the end of the month. Although units are now condos, they were built as apartments, and have some connections (a common condensate drain) which no longer meet code. She can't afford much. The insurance adjuster has been to visit.The amounts of substance that entered her apartment were large enough to make her high, and then sick, with seizures. My impression is that she is intolerant to this substance. She left her belongings behind a few weeks ago when she went to the hospital, then to another residence. I suggested that someone go in and put a box fan in a window. This would blow outside air into the unit , both to help remove any residues, and to help keep further fumes from coming from his unit. Outside air will have humidity; this is in Florida. So, my quick questions: 1) Ever run into anything like this before? I mean, he's smoking so much she gets high? What IS he smoking?2) Any ideas on how stuff in the unit can be tested? Do you know of any federal agency that might be able to test surfaces or samples from her home? (The state cannot.) She didn't think in time to get blood or urine tests done with any kind of drug screen, so she really doesn't know what she's been exposed to. But she'd like to know. 3) Do you have experience with cleaning something like this? I'm assuming it's like tobacco smoke, Exposed items include clothing, books, papers, china, and antique furniture. I'd certainly suggest wiping walls and ceiling , and replacing carpet, 4) Any other thoughts? Thankx!Henry SlackUS EPA Region 4Atlanta GA

[Guest guest]

I have a member of the SNFTAAS network who faces this problem. He uses open bags

or boxes of zeolite (I once bought a ton of it) in each room with good results.

But he still has to wash everything constantly. He has no money either. I would

say addressing an adrenal fatigue problem and possible Hypothyroid Type 2 would

help her personally. Pip

>

>

> Friends and colleagues:

>

> A woman called to say she was exposed to significant amount of smoke

> from her neighbor, who has a disability and is prescribed opiates...