Guest guest Posted April 7, 2001 Report Share Posted April 7, 2001 I'm not Andy, but I may know this one..... We had done a blood test pre cheleation (I now know it was not the test to start with but...) anyhow, we know that Grace's mercury level was 3 with normal level 0-5 so therefore there was basicly no mercury to carry into the brain. It was all already hiding in her body, so suposedly we are pulling it out. She has done soooo well on the ALA only! I was alittle concerned this week, it seemed like abit of regression, more stimming, alot more " looking " autistic ect. But its like she " woke up " again today. Attempting LOTs of words, playing with me in the car during an accident clean up on the freeway, zoning out at grandma's (ignoring?) and when I told her " I need you to turn around, look at my eye's, and answer my question, or go sit in time out! " She swivled around and looked at me with a big grin on her face and answered my question! My parents stood there with their mouths open! (BUSTED!!!!) Anyhow, sorry to get off on my favorate topic!!! Does this make any sense??? laurie Mom to Grace 3.11 > Someone wrote that ALA isn't added til > the blood mercury load is down, so as not to transport mercury into > the brain via ALA? This doesn't seem right, otherwise, how could > chelation with ALA alone be successful? Or am I just too tired for > logic? Sorry so long, any help, I'd appreciate...Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2001 Report Share Posted April 7, 2001 ALA is a very weak chelator - way down the list in efficacy. It primarily removes Hg from the kidney. In an experiment at the U of Az - 7 chelating agents were evaluated for their ability to chelate Hg from kidney tissue. The efficacy of each was in this order - DMPS, DMSA, PA DTT, GSH LA, EDTA.The literature cite in PubMed ID -PMID 9020508"Utilization of renal slices to evaluate the efficacy of chelating agents for removing mercury from the kidney.", RLToxicology 1997 Jan 15; 116 (1-3) : 67-75 Note: The possibility in this case could be that as some of the Hg load was reduced in the kidney - Hg shifted from other tissues to the kidney to replace what was removed by the LA. A slow process. Also , there is still the issue of LA entering the brain. The most important test to do is plasma amino acids to assess the sulfur status since it is methionine that offers protection to the brain. Folks need to remember that just because something is natural doesn't mean it is without adverse effects. Understanding how a nutrient works and what it does is important - especially when using it in a therapeutic application. P.Floener Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2001 Report Share Posted April 8, 2001 The paper cited below isn't the relevant literature. The relevant paper is Leskova's paper in Gigiena Truda, which, while in Russian, has been translated into english and posted on one of the listservers Wayne participates in regularly. I would appreciate sophistry being left on that listserver, and accurate information being discussed on this one. Andy > ALA is a very weak chelator - way down the list in efficacy. It primarily > removes Hg from the kidney. In an experiment at the U of Az - 7 chelating > agents were evaluated for their ability to chelate Hg from kidney tissue. The > efficacy of each was in this order - DMPS, DMSA, PA DTT, GSH LA, EDTA. > > The literature cite in PubMed ID -PMID 9020508 > " Utilization of renal slices to evaluate the efficacy of chelating agents for > removing mercury from the kidney. " > , RL > Toxicology 1997 Jan 15; 116 (1-3) : 67-75 > > Note: The possibility in this case could be that as some of the Hg load was > reduced in the kidney - Hg shifted from other tissues to the kidney to > replace what was removed by the LA. A slow process. Also , there is still the > issue of LA entering the brain. The most important test to do is plasma amino > acids to assess the sulfur status since it is methionine that offers > protection to the brain. > > Folks need to remember that just because something is natural doesn't mean > it is without adverse effects. Understanding how a nutrient works and what it > does is important - especially when using it in a therapeutic applicati Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 ANDY - Why would you say that the cite provided was irrelevant, yet not provide access to your literature? Our previous exchange about this, if my memory serves me correctly, goes back almost two years. I do not recall at that time seeing a relevant translation from Russian that supported ALA as an effective chelator for mercury.. If you are using this translation to support your protocol, you must have access to it and I would appreciate your making it available to this list. If this is not the study that you are using, what science does support your protocol. Please advise. There are people on this list who have little lives in their hands, who need to know. Thank you Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 Mr Obie, Most of us on this list have had enough experience following Dr. Cutler's excellent and generous advise on how to chelate our " little lives " and reaped the benefits of his wisdom. If you read some of the testimonials of the many parents who are listening to and following Dr. Cutlers recommendations, you will hopefully STOP badgering him and begin to show him the respect and appreciation which he so richly deserves. Please stop cluttering up this list with your negativity. If you disagree with Dr. Cutler and choose not to give his methods a try, I encourage you to look elsewhere. [ ] Re: ALA only > > ANDY - Why would you say that the cite provided was irrelevant, yet not > provide access to your literature? > > Our previous exchange about this, if my memory serves me correctly, goes > back almost two years. > > I do not recall at that time seeing a relevant translation from Russian that > supported ALA as an effective chelator for mercury.. > > If you are using this translation to support your protocol, you must have > access to it and I would appreciate your making it available to this list. > > If this is not the study that you are using, what science does support your > protocol. Please advise. There are people on this list who have little lives > in their hands, who need to know. > Thank you > Wayne > > > ======================================================= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 Please help me understand how I was badgering Andy. I do not think what I asked for was unreasonable and yes, I would be happy to receive the testimonials. Anyone and everyone who has them and would care to share them, please do send to my return address. Your response to my post was scary . There was nothing negative about my post, but your response was almost cult-like. All I asked for was the science. I have many caring professionals that are interested in seeing it If it does not exist, just say so. Thank you. Sincerely Wayne Obie Media & Public Relations Talk International.com [ ] Re: ALA only>> ANDY - Why would you say that the cite provided was irrelevant, yet not> provide access to your literature?>> Our previous exchange about this, if my memory serves me correctly, goes> back almost two years.>> I do not recall at that time seeing a relevant translation from Russianthat> supported ALA as an effective chelator for mercury..>> If you are using this translation to support your protocol, you must have> access to it and I would appreciate your making it available to this list.>> If this is not the study that you are using, what science does supportyour> protocol. Please advise. There are people on this list who have littlelives> in their hands, who need to know.> Thank you> Wayne>>> =======================================================> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 , I couldn't have said it better. I second your sentiments. Andy has been most helpful and generous to so many of us and his advice seems to have been on target judging from the many responses from parents on this list. Thank you for speaking up. Pat ALA only > >Mr Obie, > Most of us on this list have had enough experience following Dr. >Cutler's excellent and generous advise on how to chelate our " little lives " >and reaped the benefits of his wisdom. If you read some of the testimonials >of the many parents who are listening to and following Dr. Cutlers >recommendations, you will hopefully STOP badgering him and begin to show him >the respect and appreciation which he so richly deserves. > Please stop cluttering up this list with your negativity. If you >disagree with Dr. Cutler and choose not to give his methods a try, I >encourage you to look elsewhere. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 Hi Sorry, I have to agree with Wayne. Where is this information? Why won't share with the group? Why is she insisting that we find out for ourselves? I'm sure that chelation would help our daughter, but I need to have solid, yes, "Scientific" evidence (ie test results) in support of it before DH will consider it. So where do I find this information? Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 In a message dated 4/10/01 9:27:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, valadez4@... writes: Andy a Bernie have provided many papers and links to good support of what we are doing I'd like to know where to find the papers and links that are out there. Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 , Wow! Where did that come from? First, your response assumes that the only reason everyone is here is to follow Andy's protocol. That is not true. Some of us follow Andy's protocol to the letter, others follow the DAN! protocol to the letter and some combine the two. And there are still others who are in the preliminary info gathering stage and are not chelating at all. It appeared to me that Wayne was seeking clarification on a mis-communication he had with Andy. You seem to feel it was an attack. If you asked an expert advice and were unclear as to his answer, wouldn't you question? Chelation is a new and scary protocol which can do more harm than good if done incorrectly. Some of us want to be crystal clear in our understanding of the process before we use it on our children. I for one agree with that approach. But that's just my opinion. And just because your opinion and mine are opposing, I don't have the right to tell you to get off this list. Informed choices are made by hearing all sides. If you don't want to hear opposing views, hit the delete key. But asking someone to leave to group? That is censorship. N. > Mr Obie, > Most of us on this list have had enough experience following Dr. > Cutler's excellent and generous advise on how to chelate our " little lives " > and reaped the benefits of his wisdom. If you read some of the testimonials > of the many parents who are listening to and following Dr. Cutlers > recommendations, you will hopefully STOP badgering him and begin to show him > the respect and appreciation which he so richly deserves. > Please stop cluttering up this list with your negativity. If you > disagree with Dr. Cutler and choose not to give his methods a try, I > encourage you to look elsewhere. > > > > [ ] Re: ALA only > > > > > > ANDY - Why would you say that the cite provided was irrelevant, yet not > > provide access to your literature? > > > > Our previous exchange about this, if my memory serves me correctly, goes > > back almost two years. > > > > I do not recall at that time seeing a relevant translation from Russian > that > > supported ALA as an effective chelator for mercury.. > > > > If you are using this translation to support your protocol, you must have > > access to it and I would appreciate your making it available to this list. > > > > If this is not the study that you are using, what science does support > your > > protocol. Please advise. There are people on this list who have little > lives > > in their hands, who need to know. > > Thank you > > Wayne > > > > > > ======================================================= > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 - Wayne, I have to agree with , go away!!!! We as parents, are interested in continuing to help our children, and they are being helped. Cult -like are the so called caring professionals, that allowed the Mercury into our vaccines to begin with. If we didn't trust the so called caring professionals most of us would not be on this list to began with. It figures that your from some sort of Media related source, they aren't doing much to support us for the most part. Please let us as parents and also respected proffesionals, continue to get on with the process of making our dhildren better. We don't have time to come on to the site to argue or dispute. Thank you very much, Leah, God Bles you, sounds like you need it, Goodbye Wayne -- In @y..., wayne obie <communications@t...> wrote: > > > Please help me understand how I was badgering Andy. I do not think what I asked for was unreasonable and yes, I would be happy to receive the testimonials. > > Anyone and everyone who has them and would care to share them, please do send to my return address. > > Your response to my post was scary . There was nothing negative about my post, but your response was almost cult-like. > > All I asked for was the science. I have many caring professionals that are interested in seeing it > > If it does not exist, just say so. Thank you. > > Sincerely > Wayne Obie > Media & Public Relations > Talk International.com > [ ] Re: ALA only > > > > > > ANDY - Why would you say that the cite provided was irrelevant, yet not > > provide access to your literature? > > > > Our previous exchange about this, if my memory serves me correctly, goes > > back almost two years. > > > > I do not recall at that time seeing a relevant translation from Russian > that > > supported ALA as an effective chelator for mercury.. > > > > If you are using this translation to support your protocol, you must have > > access to it and I would appreciate your making it available to this list. > > > > If this is not the study that you are using, what science does support > your > > protocol. Please advise. There are people on this list who have little > lives > > in their hands, who need to know. > > Thank you > > Wayne > > > > > > ======================================================= > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 Yes, I want to know! I wouldn't ask if I didn't. I haven't been on this list very long, and I seem to have missed a lot of the links to papers, etc. Please could I also ask for those of you who have chelation success stories to post them? Thanks Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 ----- Original Message ----- From: <valadez4@...> < > > - > Wayne, > I have to agree with , go away!!!! Yikes! How about we just drop this thread. Asking someone to leave the group is immature and totally unnecessary. Mr. Cutler can fight his own battles, if indeed there is one (sounded more like an invitation to debate an issue to me) .... You said we don't have time to argue or dispute. I see no reason why issues cannot be debated and both sides presented so the audience can learn to discern and everyone can be satisfied with the results. It's when other people get involved unnecessarily that emotional outburst ensue, so let's just let this one slide ... No one here has any disrespect for Mr. Cutler. Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill. We have better things to discuss on a list that addresses serious and complicated issues. Minc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 Hi Margaret, I hear what you are saying, but as I shared with and Minc in a private post, if the goverment took the time to do clicical studies that could take years, and our children would loose valueable time, as they have already. Andy a Bernie have provided many papers and links to good support of what we are doing.Chelation is working great for my son, now 8.And for many others, look in the archives, you hear nothing short of miracles happening, and some of the progress may seem minimal to some, but for the parents of each child those little things were thought to be beyond reach prior to chelation. And for the outstanding progress these things were stopped by block walls the parents couldn't bring down outside of chelation. We have done many other things through the years, fortunately with much success, but chelation is wonderful. Now will all children become completley recovered? Well no one can answer that. But we know that they will be free of metals, and if you research what metals do to the brain, how long , and why would any parent aware of the danger of metals leave the metals in the body any longer than need be. These children have lost part of their childhood. We love them enough to give it back, to the greatest extend possible and as soon as possible. All of us had doubts and fears as we research, for we are responsible for choices made for our innocent children. We do not want to hurt or cause any futher damage to our children, I believe we are all proceeding with caution, I don't think any of us just jumped into this with out reading and educating ourselves, I hope you to will find the satisfaction we have found by making this choice for our children, just pull off the internet lots of progress reports, and hopefully your husband will understand the importance of doing this soon. Even if you are not looking for recovery, if only to get the dangerous metals out. I pray that you will be able to proceed soon, to help you daughter from any further damage. Leah > Hi > > Sorry, I have to agree with Wayne. Where is this information? Why won't > share with the group? Why is she insisting that we find out for > ourselves? > > I'm sure that chelation would help our daughter, but I need to have solid, > yes, " Scientific " evidence (ie test results) in support of it before DH will > consider it. > So where do I find this information? > > Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 Listmates: I agree with ; this list should be for inquiry and discussion, and I don't even believe it serves Andy for someone to be so hostile to any questioning. I also agree that he is well-equipped to defend himself. Though I love Andy dearly and appreciate his enormous devotion and generosity, my clinical experience is raising some questions that I can't find answers for, such as the regression in some kids following the addition of ALA. Even though we know it's like a stimulant to the gut to grow lots of bugs, particularly clostridia, I'm not sure that's the whole story. I now double the probiotics on the days of ALA for that reason. Although I'm still using it for kids I'm chelating, I'm not even sure at this point that ALA should be an over-the-counter nutrient without us really knowing how or how not to use it. All the information is still not in, so I think there's plenty of room for doubt and questioning and research and getting more information. The main area we don't know about is the use of these substances in an immature human brain. I think what one does to turn around mercury poisoning that is acquired from amalgams might be different than going into a small child's developing brain, and it is serious business that we all owe it to ourselves to question and go very cautiously. We're not even sure that the DMSA works by taking out the mercury, but by some other unknown mechanism helping the gut function better. There are many many questions, and I want to be open to reports from parents as well as from any scientists who might be willing to approach this arena. Jaquelyn snunes@... wrote: > , > Wow! Where did that come from? First, your response assumes that > the only reason everyone is here is to follow Andy's protocol. That > is not true. Some of us follow Andy's protocol to the letter, others > follow the DAN! protocol to the letter and some combine the two. And > there are still others who are in the preliminary info gathering > stage and are not chelating at all. It appeared to me that Wayne was > seeking clarification on a mis-communication he had with Andy. You > seem to feel it was an attack. If you asked an expert advice and > were unclear as to his answer, wouldn't you question? Chelation is a > new and scary protocol which can do more harm than good if done > incorrectly. Some of us want to be crystal clear in our > understanding of the process before we use it on our children. I for > one agree with that approach. But that's just my opinion. And just > because your opinion and mine are opposing, I don't have the right to > tell you to get off this list. Informed choices are made by hearing > all sides. If you don't want to hear opposing views, hit the delete > key. But asking someone to leave to group? That is censorship. > N. > > > > Mr Obie, > > Most of us on this list have had enough experience following Dr. > > Cutler's excellent and generous advise on how to chelate > our " little lives " > > and reaped the benefits of his wisdom. If you read some of the > testimonials > > of the many parents who are listening to and following Dr. Cutlers > > recommendations, you will hopefully STOP badgering him and begin to > show him > > the respect and appreciation which he so richly deserves. > > Please stop cluttering up this list with your negativity. If > you > > disagree with Dr. Cutler and choose not to give his methods a try, I > > encourage you to look elsewhere. > > > > > > > > [ ] Re: ALA only > > > > > > > > > > ANDY - Why would you say that the cite provided was irrelevant, > yet not > > > provide access to your literature? > > > > > > Our previous exchange about this, if my memory serves me > correctly, goes > > > back almost two years. > > > > > > I do not recall at that time seeing a relevant translation from > Russian > > that > > > supported ALA as an effective chelator for mercury.. > > > > > > If you are using this translation to support your protocol, you > must have > > > access to it and I would appreciate your making it available to > this list. > > > > > > If this is not the study that you are using, what science does > support > > your > > > protocol. Please advise. There are people on this list who have > little > > lives > > > in their hands, who need to know. > > > Thank you > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > ======================================================= > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 minc, it was not the discussion or the questions that upset me about Mr. Obie's post. it was the spirit in which his questions were asked. the tone was oh so familiar - one I've heard over and over And Over again by conventional medicine doctors and the like who have offered NOTHING to assist me in the care of my daughter for years but have the nerve to question methods that ARE making a positive difference in her life on the basis that there isn't an abundance of scientific literature out there to support it. Maybe because the scientific studies are funded by Big Business (Pharmaceutical companies and Agricultural Groups) in order to support " treatment methods " that will bring in a profit. I'm exhausted by this vein and will get off it much to my and, I'm sure, your relief. Re: [ ] Re: ALA only > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <valadez4@...> > < > > > > - > > Wayne, > > I have to agree with , go away!!!! > > Yikes! How about we just drop this thread. > > Asking someone to leave the group is immature and totally unnecessary. Mr. > Cutler can fight his own battles, if indeed there is one (sounded more like > an invitation to debate an issue to me) .... > > You said we don't have time to argue or dispute. I see no reason why issues > cannot be debated and both sides presented so the audience can learn to > discern and everyone can be satisfied with the results. > > It's when other people get involved unnecessarily that emotional outburst > ensue, so let's just let this one slide ... > > No one here has any disrespect for Mr. Cutler. Let's not make a mountain > out of a molehill. We have better things to discuss on a list that > addresses serious and complicated issues. > > Minc > > > > ======================================================= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 At 01:33 PM 04/10/2001 +0000, you wrote: > It appeared to me that Wayne was >seeking clarification on a mis-communication he had with Andy. You >seem to feel it was an attack. If you asked an expert advice and >were unclear as to his answer, wouldn't you question? I don't think Mr. Obie has a child with autism or a child he is interested in chelating. I think his question, if he were truly interested in an answer and not stirring up trouble, would have been posted to Andy privately. I post Andy privately when I have personal questions that I don't think will benefit the list. I for one am not interested in arguing about published research. No matter what your stand on any issue you can probably find published research somewhere to back you up. I made my decision to chelate primarily based on parental report. It is too new an area to expect to find definitive research to support success or failure. What I have not heard about is kids getting badly hurt, even when doing it " incorrectly " . The positive reports way out number the negative. Some of them are downright miraculous, but all are inspiring. There are many things I have encountered while seeking treatment for my daughter. I listened to many misguided attacks on Dr Lovaas and ABA even as it was pulling my daughter into our world and teaching her language and appropriate behaviors. I just get sick of it! Lynette >Chelation is a >new and scary protocol which can do more harm than good if done >incorrectly. Some of us want to be crystal clear in our >understanding of the process before we use it on our children. I for >one agree with that approach. But that's just my opinion. And just >because your opinion and mine are opposing, I don't have the right to >tell you to get off this list. Informed choices are made by hearing >all sides. If you don't want to hear opposing views, hit the delete >key. But asking someone to leave to group? That is censorship. > N. > > > > Mr Obie, > > Most of us on this list have had enough experience following Dr. > > Cutler's excellent and generous advise on how to chelate >our " little lives " > > and reaped the benefits of his wisdom. If you read some of the >testimonials > > of the many parents who are listening to and following Dr. Cutlers > > recommendations, you will hopefully STOP badgering him and begin to >show him > > the respect and appreciation which he so richly deserves. > > Please stop cluttering up this list with your negativity. If >you > > disagree with Dr. Cutler and choose not to give his methods a try, I > > encourage you to look elsewhere. > > > > > > > > [ ] Re: ALA only > > > > > > > > > > ANDY - Why would you say that the cite provided was irrelevant, >yet not > > > provide access to your literature? > > > > > > Our previous exchange about this, if my memory serves me >correctly, goes > > > back almost two years. > > > > > > I do not recall at that time seeing a relevant translation from >Russian > > that > > > supported ALA as an effective chelator for mercury.. > > > > > > If you are using this translation to support your protocol, you >must have > > > access to it and I would appreciate your making it available to >this list. > > > > > > If this is not the study that you are using, what science does >support > > your > > > protocol. Please advise. There are people on this list who have >little > > lives > > > in their hands, who need to know. > > > Thank you > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > ======================================================= > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 very well said, Lynette. [ ] Re: ALA only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ANDY - Why would you say that the cite provided was irrelevant, > >yet not > > > > provide access to your literature? > > > > > > > > Our previous exchange about this, if my memory serves me > >correctly, goes > > > > back almost two years. > > > > > > > > I do not recall at that time seeing a relevant translation from > >Russian > > > that > > > > supported ALA as an effective chelator for mercury.. > > > > > > > > If you are using this translation to support your protocol, you > >must have > > > > access to it and I would appreciate your making it available to > >this list. > > > > > > > > If this is not the study that you are using, what science does > >support > > > your > > > > protocol. Please advise. There are people on this list who have > >little > > > lives > > > > in their hands, who need to know. > > > > Thank you > > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================= > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 I didn't tell Obie to get off this list. I did not say that everyone on this list if following Andy's protocol. I never said there wasn't room for discussion or sharing of information. However, the spirit in which questions are asked on this list is generally with a sincere interest in understanding how best to help our children. That is not the impression I got from Obie's post. He came across like many other individuals I've encountered in this 8 year journey of desperatly trying to help my daughter; full of doubts and sneers and ridicule and I've stopped being discouraged and hurt by this and finally begun to get angry. This tone of questioning impedes the flow of helpful information that we all need to keep us going and to help our children. [ ] Re: ALA only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ANDY - Why would you say that the cite provided was irrelevant, > > yet not > > > > provide access to your literature? > > > > > > > > Our previous exchange about this, if my memory serves me > > correctly, goes > > > > back almost two years. > > > > > > > > I do not recall at that time seeing a relevant translation from > > Russian > > > that > > > > supported ALA as an effective chelator for mercury.. > > > > > > > > If you are using this translation to support your protocol, you > > must have > > > > access to it and I would appreciate your making it available to > > this list. > > > > > > > > If this is not the study that you are using, what science does > > support > > > your > > > > protocol. Please advise. There are people on this list who have > > little > > > lives > > > > in their hands, who need to know. > > > > Thank you > > > > Wayne > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================= > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 That is great news about your daughter. Vicky chinamom@... wrote: > > Jaquelyn, > > So why are most of us using ALA only getting such good > results?? > > To the Rest of you, > > Is there anyone out there having BAD results with ALA only??? > Are you just not speaking up??? Other than minor > disturbances?? Has anyone tried ALA only and had it not lead to > improvements??? > > I keep wondering if they should be used togather??? Maybe one > at a time??? > > Laurie > Mom to Grace 3.11 > > PS... Grace's ATEC scores have gone down 21 points in 17 > days!!! On ALA only!!! > > 4/17/00 74 > 3/20/01 70 > 3/30/01 56 > 4/05/01 49!!!! > > > my clinical experience is raising some questions that I can't > > find answers for, such as the regression in some kids > following the addition > > of ALA. Even though we know it's like a stimulant to the gut to > grow lots of > > bugs, particularly clostridia, I'm not sure that's the whole story. > > I now > > double the probiotics on the days of ALA for that reason. > Although I'm still > > using it for kids I'm chelating, I'm not even sure at this point > that > ALA > > should be an over-the-counter nutrient without us really > knowing how or how > > not to use it. All the information is still not in, so I think > there's > plenty > > of room for doubt and questioning and research and getting > more information. > > The main area we don't know about is the use of these > substances in an > > immature human brain. I think what one does to turn around > mercury poisoning > > that is acquired from amalgams might be different than going > into a small > > child's developing brain, and it is serious business that we all > owe it to > > ourselves to question and go very cautiously. We're not even > sure that the > > DMSA works by taking out the mercury, but by some other > unknown mechanism > > helping the gut function better. There are many many > questions, and I want > > to be open to reports from parents as well as from any > scientists who might > > be willing to approach this arena. Jaquelyn > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 Insist that you find out for yourselves?!! The information and recommended sources of information are all over this list. I dug and researched and read into the wee hours of the morning to determine what was right for my daughter. If you have a sincere interest in helping your child and listening to our experiences, please ask away. If you only want to come at me with a "Prove It!!" attitude, well, I'm sorry but I just don't have time for you. Re: [ ] Re: ALA only Hi Sorry, I have to agree with Wayne. Where is this information? Why won't share with the group? Why is she insisting that we find out for ourselves? I'm sure that chelation would help our daughter, but I need to have solid, yes, "Scientific" evidence (ie test results) in support of it before DH will consider it. So where do I find this information? Margaret ======================================================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 Jaquelyn, So why are most of us using ALA only getting such good results?? To the Rest of you, Is there anyone out there having BAD results with ALA only??? Are you just not speaking up??? Other than minor disturbances?? Has anyone tried ALA only and had it not lead to improvements??? I keep wondering if they should be used togather??? Maybe one at a time??? Laurie Mom to Grace 3.11 PS... Grace's ATEC scores have gone down 21 points in 17 days!!! On ALA only!!! 4/17/00 74 3/20/01 70 3/30/01 56 4/05/01 49!!!! my clinical experience is raising some questions that I can't > find answers for, such as the regression in some kids following the addition > of ALA. Even though we know it's like a stimulant to the gut to grow lots of > bugs, particularly clostridia, I'm not sure that's the whole story. I now > double the probiotics on the days of ALA for that reason. Although I'm still > using it for kids I'm chelating, I'm not even sure at this point that ALA > should be an over-the-counter nutrient without us really knowing how or how > not to use it. All the information is still not in, so I think there's plenty > of room for doubt and questioning and research and getting more information. > The main area we don't know about is the use of these substances in an > immature human brain. I think what one does to turn around mercury poisoning > that is acquired from amalgams might be different than going into a small > child's developing brain, and it is serious business that we all owe it to > ourselves to question and go very cautiously. We're not even sure that the > DMSA works by taking out the mercury, but by some other unknown mechanism > helping the gut function better. There are many many questions, and I want > to be open to reports from parents as well as from any scientists who might > be willing to approach this arena. Jaquelyn > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 I don't know if this was coincidence - we've only used ala twice. The first time ala alone, the next time ala/dmsa. Sydney's allergy symptoms flared up when she was on ala-alone and this was on a very very low dose of 5mg every 3 hours. So, I tried adding in the dmsa (decreased to 25mg) with the 5mg ala every 3 hours and things went more smoothly. I plan to continue with the ala/dmsa at this point. May give the ala-alone a try again down the road a piece just because I prefer to use as few substances as possible (and this includes supplements). [ ] Re: ALA only > > Jaquelyn, > > So why are most of us using ALA only getting such good > results?? > > To the Rest of you, > > Is there anyone out there having BAD results with ALA only??? > Are you just not speaking up??? Other than minor > disturbances?? Has anyone tried ALA only and had it not lead to > improvements??? > > I keep wondering if they should be used togather??? Maybe one > at a time??? > > Laurie > Mom to Grace 3.11 > > PS... Grace's ATEC scores have gone down 21 points in 17 > days!!! On ALA only!!! > > 4/17/00 74 > 3/20/01 70 > 3/30/01 56 > 4/05/01 49!!!! > > > > > > my clinical experience is raising some questions that I can't > > find answers for, such as the regression in some kids > following the addition > > of ALA. Even though we know it's like a stimulant to the gut to > grow lots of > > bugs, particularly clostridia, I'm not sure that's the whole story. > I now > > double the probiotics on the days of ALA for that reason. > Although I'm still > > using it for kids I'm chelating, I'm not even sure at this point that > ALA > > should be an over-the-counter nutrient without us really > knowing how or how > > not to use it. All the information is still not in, so I think there's > plenty > > of room for doubt and questioning and research and getting > more information. > > The main area we don't know about is the use of these > substances in an > > immature human brain. I think what one does to turn around > mercury poisoning > > that is acquired from amalgams might be different than going > into a small > > child's developing brain, and it is serious business that we all > owe it to > > ourselves to question and go very cautiously. We're not even > sure that the > > DMSA works by taking out the mercury, but by some other > unknown mechanism > > helping the gut function better. There are many many > questions, and I want > > to be open to reports from parents as well as from any > scientists who might > > be willing to approach this arena. Jaquelyn > > > > > ======================================================= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 Laurie: I truly do not know why some kids do very well (and I have them too) and why others don't; I wish I did know. As Andy has said, clinical correlation with the lab studies are not very helpful; I have kids that are getting out mercury without any clinical improvement and kids who don't who are doing very well. That is my only point, that I want to keep being open to any light on this new adventure we're all in together. I am very happy for you that Grace is doing well, what a blessing! Jaquelyn chinamom@... wrote: > Jaquelyn, > > So why are most of us using ALA only getting such good > results?? > > To the Rest of you, > > Is there anyone out there having BAD results with ALA only??? > Are you just not speaking up??? Other than minor > disturbances?? Has anyone tried ALA only and had it not lead to > improvements??? > > I keep wondering if they should be used togather??? Maybe one > at a time??? > > Laurie > Mom to Grace 3.11 > > PS... Grace's ATEC scores have gone down 21 points in 17 > days!!! On ALA only!!! > > 4/17/00 74 > 3/20/01 70 > 3/30/01 56 > 4/05/01 49!!!! > > > my clinical experience is raising some questions that I can't > > find answers for, such as the regression in some kids > following the addition > > of ALA. Even though we know it's like a stimulant to the gut to > grow lots of > > bugs, particularly clostridia, I'm not sure that's the whole story. > I now > > double the probiotics on the days of ALA for that reason. > Although I'm still > > using it for kids I'm chelating, I'm not even sure at this point that > ALA > > should be an over-the-counter nutrient without us really > knowing how or how > > not to use it. All the information is still not in, so I think there's > plenty > > of room for doubt and questioning and research and getting > more information. > > The main area we don't know about is the use of these > substances in an > > immature human brain. I think what one does to turn around > mercury poisoning > > that is acquired from amalgams might be different than going > into a small > > child's developing brain, and it is serious business that we all > owe it to > > ourselves to question and go very cautiously. We're not even > sure that the > > DMSA works by taking out the mercury, but by some other > unknown mechanism > > helping the gut function better. There are many many > questions, and I want > > to be open to reports from parents as well as from any > scientists who might > > be willing to approach this arena. Jaquelyn > > > > ======================================================= > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 -Margaret, I, as well as many others I presume, wrote privately to you at your first request for help. I gave you many sites and suggestions. Now, what everyone is trying to tell you is, we can't re-invent the wheel for you...No one can prove this to you or your husband. This is why you are being told to search the archives. There are tons of updates and progress reports on various children. They do not need to be re- posted. You need to search and resolve in your own mind what is best for your child. I hope you receive this in the manner in which it is being written...caring, not flaming. You have to do the work yourself now. Ann a grammy to: dean/4 bryan/13 toxic...but getting better -- In @y..., MMacGregor@a... wrote: > > > Yes, I want to know! I wouldn't ask if I didn't. I haven't been on this > list very long, > and I seem to have missed a lot of the links to papers, etc. > > Please could I also ask for those of you who have chelation success stories > to post them? > > Thanks > > Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.