Guest guest Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Roland, Training up coherence in slow waves, when it is low, is not an unreasonable thing to try. If it feels good, and it doesn't result in groggy aftermath, you should continue testing it. Did you feel less underaroused after this training? Has anyone done delta amplitude uptraining anywhere? Any results to report? Pete Hello I myself often feel underaroused. I have done a lot of SMR training and high alpha. It made drastic improvement but I feel there is still much to gain. My QEEG shows low voltage high frequency, with very low delta on the back of the head. It sounds a bit like not to be done, but would it be good to train delta at these places? I also have low delta coherence. I trained this once before and it felt good. Greetings, Roland. -- Van Deusen pvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Hi Pete, my thinking felt more coherent after the training haha, really. It also improved my musical skill I think. I will practice it more in the coming time. I did it only one time so far. If anyone has experience with training delta up I will do it. It's something not to be done in neurofeedback, since high delta means brain damage, but maybe it's ok to train when you have less of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Hi Pete and others I have trained Delta up several times - ala the Othmers - checking how the client felt after a 1-2 minute interval and gradually going down in frequency. It hasn't always been in bipolar montages as the Othmers describe it - with this one client I am training at fpo2-a2-g with another channel at p4a2g (with no feedback - just interested in what's gong on at the back of his head). I am currently training with a reward at .9-2.9 hz with an inhibit at 1-14 and 15-35hz and he looked like he was doing alpha theta training. When I hooked up the lead at p4 during the next session and looked at that - sure enough he was having the deepest crossover (Theta above Alpha) he has ever had. What I see at fpo2 is a decrease in hibeta - going down about 5 microvolts during the last 10 minutes of a 30 minute session. I have seen this decrease in hibeta (19-35 hz) with 3 clients now (rewarding very different frequencies depending on client reaction) - all who have intense generalized fear and anxiety (Sebern Fisher calls this the fear protocol - her article in the latest ISNR-AAPB eeg newsletter describes it beautifully) I guess my point is that I always watch all the information I can gather (both coherence and amplitude) in real time and notice what happens (I also look at the client a lot Pete :-)) The interesting thing is - with this one person I am rewarding Delta -and his Delta comes WAY DOWN!! He starts off with Delta extremely high and ends up with it very low even thought it is being rewarded! I adjust the threshold as necessary so that the Delta gets at least 85% reward and have the other bands interrupt that if they go over a more consistent threshold. Intuitively I would never reward Delta with him but it works!! Maybe this just brings the brain's attention to the Delta and it does what is necessary to normalize the situation. I am always in awe of the client's own process and how they move to healthier states whenever possible. It has taken this client three years of multiple protocols but this week he actually gave two presentations at work and was able to answer questions, retrieve information and got a compliment from his supervisor which has NEVER happened before (been fired from many jobs). He says the biggest change in this aspect of his functioning happened after some coherence training and this protocol in particular although I’m sure that all the other work he has done laid the groundwork. Anyway - this is a very exciting process - I get so enthusiastic when I am learning along with the clients I see!! I so appreciate all of the tools you have given us Pete and I would recommend that we all pay attention to what is actually happening in the client’s experience and eeg to guide us in what we do. Thank you!! Tegan ---- Van Deusen wrote: > Roland, > > Training up coherence in slow waves, when it is low, is not an unreasonable > thing to try. If it feels good, and it doesn't result in groggy aftermath, > you should continue testing it. Did you feel less underaroused after this > training? > > Has anyone done delta amplitude uptraining anywhere? Any results to report? > > Pete > > > > > > > Hello I myself often feel underaroused. I have done a lot of SMR > > training and high alpha. It made drastic improvement but I feel there > > is still much to gain. My QEEG shows low voltage high frequency, with > > very low delta on the back of the head. It sounds a bit like not to be > > done, but would it be good to train delta at these places? I also have > > low delta coherence. I trained this once before and it felt good. > > Greetings, Roland. > > > > > > > > > > -- > Van Deusen > pvdtlc@... > http://www.brain-trainer.com > 305/433-3160 > The Learning Curve, Inc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 hai & h r u, send me the tech's satheesh Re: train delta? Hi Pete, my thinking felt more coherent after the training haha, really. It also improved my musical skill I think. I will practice it more in the coming time. I did it only one time so far. If anyone has experience with training delta up I will do it. It's something not to be done in neurofeedback, since high delta means brain damage, but maybe it's ok to train when you have less of it... SHOUT IT OUT! Tell everyone, from anywhere, that you're online on Yahoo! Messenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 24, 2007 Report Share Posted April 24, 2007 Hi Pete, In my last conversation with Sieg he told me that they found pretty interesting results rewarding Delta in ASD kids. I believe he told me they did that at C3-C4 and also, in some cases at T3-T4, but if you are interested in their findings I recommend you to contact him directly. Regards, ,C.H.Training for Life Re: train delta? Roland, Training up coherence in slow waves, when it is low, is not an unreasonable thing to try. If it feels good, and it doesn't result in groggy aftermath, you should continue testing it. Did you feel less underaroused after this training? Has anyone done delta amplitude uptraining anywhere? Any results to report? Pete Hello I myself often feel underaroused. I have done a lot of SMR training and high alpha. It made drastic improvement but I feel there is still much to gain. My QEEG shows low voltage high frequency, with very low delta on the back of the head. It sounds a bit like not to be done, but would it be good to train delta at these places? I also have low delta coherence. I trained this once before and it felt good. Greetings, Roland. -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmail (DOT) comhttp://www.brain- trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 The point of several of these posts was that people were doing this using monopolar montages, training a single site to increase delta--albeit in some cases at frequencies that are actually blocked by the lowpass filters in the amplifiers! Remember, though, that uptraining delta in a bipolar montage like C3/C4, etc. is not uptraining amplitude at all. It is simply increasing the DIFFERENCE between the two sites, which may occur as a result of changing phase relationships, or even by REDUCING amplitudes. For example, if Delta is 6 microvolts at one site and 12 microvolts at another, then one can increase the difference by reducing the amplitude at the first site to 5 microvolts, resulting in a change in the difference from 6 (12-6) to 7 (12-5). But it's NOT increasing Delta. Pete Hi Pete, In my last conversation with Sieg he told me that they found pretty interesting results rewarding Delta in ASD kids. I believe he told me they did that at C3-C4 and also, in some cases at T3-T4, but if you are interested in their findings I recommend you to contact him directly. Regards, ,C.H.Training for Life Re: train delta? Roland, Training up coherence in slow waves, when it is low, is not an unreasonable thing to try. If it feels good, and it doesn't result in groggy aftermath, you should continue testing it. Did you feel less underaroused after this training? Has anyone done delta amplitude uptraining anywhere? Any results to report? Pete On 4/23/07, ronaway7 <rolandverment@ hotmail.com > wrote: Hello I myself often feel underaroused. I have done a lot of SMR training and high alpha. It made drastic improvement but I feel there is still much to gain. My QEEG shows low voltage high frequency, with very low delta on the back of the head. It sounds a bit like not to be done, but would it be good to train delta at these places? I also have low delta coherence. I trained this once before and it felt good. Greetings, Roland. -- Van Deusen pvdtlcgmail (DOT) comhttp://www.brain- trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Ahhh...imagining that irresistible " new car " smell?Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. -- Van Deusen pvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 I know of one practitioner that up-trains delta at times...he has alot of evidence that delta is related to autonomic nervous system functioning....and for someone with a brain injury, that delta may be helping their body do what it's supposed to do...breath, heart beat, etc. Very interesting, haven't looked at the sites he referred me to....and I can't find them now. Re: train delta? Roland, Training up coherence in slow waves, when it is low, is not an unreasonable thing to try. If it feels good, and it doesn't result in groggy aftermath, you should continue testing it. Did you feel less underaroused after this training? Has anyone done delta amplitude uptraining anywhere? Any results to report? Pete Hello I myself often feel underaroused. I have done a lot of SMR training and high alpha. It made drastic improvement but I feel there is still much to gain. My QEEG shows low voltage high frequency, with very low delta on the back of the head. It sounds a bit like not to be done, but would it be good to train delta at these places? I also have low delta coherence. I trained this once before and it felt good. Greetings, Roland. -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmail (DOT) comhttp://www.brain- trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 I regularly train delta monopolar montage at Fpo2 (1-3Hz), Fp2 and F8 (4-7 and lower) for anxiety, Aspergers, Tourettes, ACD and panic disorder, only inhibit hi beta and results are spectacular compared to our older standards at C4 and T4. Caveat is that not everyone responds, so C4 and T4 as well as P4 do get a workout with these others. As Pete says, a biploar montage is not uptraining, it still works in some cases at rewarding change and stabilising brainwave patterns, but why can 2 different approaches provide normalisation? There is so much we just don't know about how nfb really works. pacman Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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