Re: Magnesium Supplements vs LDN?

[Guest guest]

I use Magnesium for constipation. (2) 400 MG pills of Mag, 3 days in a row, and it gets things moving. I can't be chained to the bowl so I don't take it all the time.

Interesting on the receptors. I guess they'd fight each other. Well, I usually take Mag after Noon if I'm going to take it, I guess it's good I haven't been taking them in the middle of the night. I believe LDN only hangs around for 6 or so hours.

I think the bigger question would be for those taking 50 or 150 MG doses of Naltrexone. But if there is a conflict, then for LDN takers, just avoiding say 8pm til 6am for magnesium pills should be sufficient, no? Probably best to take it with lunch time meals then, if you're taking any.

[low dose naltrexone] Magnesium Supplements vs LDN?

Does anyone know if Dr. Bihari recommends taking Magnesium as asupplement when one also takes LDN. It is thought that most Americansdo not get enough Magnesium in their diet and Magnesium is veryimportant for good health. And it seems people with Parkinson's arelow in Mg. I would like to start taking it as a supplement. But, Icame accross a long thread on Magnesium in Braintalk Parkinson's andthere was one post that I found to be very curious and very hard tounderstand. It seems Magnesium binds to NMDA (opioid?) receptors inthe brain, the same receptors that LDN binds to? Is there anyone whocan recommend taking Magnesium or knows if Magnesium adversly effectsLDN performance? http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=100535Post in Question??? 09-16-2005, 09:23 PMpdquestions pdquestions is offlineDistinguished Community Member Join Date: Feb 2005Posts: 122Default and this is another, with specific mention of effect of Mg onDopamineHere is a paper that is very interesting:Quote:

[Guest guest]

Hey Larry,

Who says you can't be chained to the bowel. I care to differ!!!

Aletha

[low dose naltrexone] Magnesium Supplements vs LDN?

Does anyone know if Dr. Bihari recommends taking Magnesium as asupplement when one also takes LDN. It is thought that most Americansdo not get enough Magnesium in their diet and Magnesium is veryimportant for good health. And it seems people with Parkinson's arelow in Mg. I would like to start taking it as a supplement. But, Icame accross a long thread on Magnesium in Braintalk Parkinson's andthere was one post that I found to be very curious and very hard tounderstand. It seems Magnesium binds to NMDA (opioid?) receptors inthe brain, the same receptors that LDN binds to? Is there anyone whocan recommend taking Magnesium or knows if Magnesium adversly effectsLDN performance? http://brain.hastypastry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=100535Post in Question??? 09-16-2005, 09:23 PMpdquestions pdquestions is offlineDistinguished Community Member Join Date: Feb 2005Posts: 122Default and this is another, with specific mention of effect of Mg onDopamineHere is a paper that is very interesting:Quote:

[Guest guest]

I do not know of Dr. Bihari's position on this but I have not seen

data concerning an interaction problem.

Magnesium is a commonly described mineral deficiency in Western diets

& often is a recommended supplement; for pharmacological effects to a

maximum tolerated dose (e.g. soft stools) of a well absorbed Mg+ salt.

Excess magnesium is said to be excreted as long as one has normal

kidney function.

Both Mg & LDN (despite naltrexone being an opioid antagonist) are

hypothesized to mitigate glutamate excitotoxicity via different

glutamate receptor subtypes; magnesium as the voltage dependent

endogenous NMDA block & LDN is hypothesized to prevent AMPA

activation*. {NMDA & AMPA are classified as glutamate receptors vs.

opioid receptors.}

Glutamate Receptors -Structures and Functions:

http://www.bris.ac.uk/Depts/Synaptic/info/glutamate.html

Memantine (Namenda) is now being marketed in the US as " an improved

magnesium " in terms of relatively well tolerated NMDA protection (but

magnesium also has many other physiological effects that may be

therapeutic-yet less effective in its role as the physiological NMDA

block under pathological conditions). Here are some receptor animations:

http://www.memantine.com/en/mode_of_action/animation

http://www.memantine.com/en/studies/preclinical_data/signal-to-noise_hypothesis

*LDN Reference:

http://www.ldners.org/Articles/LDN_Medical_Hypotheses.pdf

- If LDN did indeed act as a direct NMDA antagonist, one would expect

dose dependent psychotomimetic effects (e.g. memory impairment,

dissociation, hallucinations) such as is seen with ketamine

analgesia/anesthesia or even high doses of memantine-when administered

without another specific neuroprotectant like a GABA-A agonist (e.g.

Valium, propofol) or alpha-2 adrenergic agonist clonidine. However

LDN's hypothesized AMPA antagonism may theorectically serve as an NMDA

neuroprotectant.

Anyone learns otherwise let us know, Best Wishes, Josh

[Guest guest]

I don't know if Dr. Bihari recommends taking magnesium with LDN, but I

know that he's not against it because I've been a patient of his and he

knows I take it.

Let's all please remember to erase the old message when we're

replying. It's the reason why quite a few " oldtimers " --myself included-

-dropped out for awhile. It just became too much.

Thank you.

[Guest guest]

Hello Josh, thank you for your rather informed comments on magnesium

supplements not counteracting LDN. Are you a researcher? Do you use

LDN yourself and what do you think of it? I have been on it for 15

months now for Parkinson's but because my PD meds have returned me to

feeling " normal " , I have no way of knowing if LDN is of any help and

may not know for years. I have done searches on naltrexone/PD and have

come up with interesting research papers stating that

naloxone/naltrexone can reduce brain inflamation which is belived to

be a cause for Parkinson's, Alzheimers etc. I have attached two of

those papers for you or anyone else to comment on if you wish.

http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/content/full/962/1/318

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/full/19/6/550

I emailed Dr. Hong a few months ago and he said he would take LDN if

he had PD although he didn't know at what dose. Also, femtomolar is a

unit of measure, 10 to the minus 14 or 15 (very small).

>

> I do not know of Dr. Bihari's position on this but I have not seen

> data concerning an interaction problem.

>

> Magnesium is a commonly described mineral deficiency in Western diets

> & often is a recommended supplement; for pharmacological effects to a

> maximum tolerated dose (e.g. soft stools) of a well absorbed Mg+ salt.

> Excess magnesium is said to be excreted as long as one has normal

> kidney function.

>

> Both Mg & LDN (despite naltrexone being an opioid antagonist) are

> hypothesized to mitigate glutamate excitotoxicity via different

> glutamate receptor subtypes; magnesium as the voltage dependent

> endogenous NMDA block & LDN is hypothesized to prevent AMPA

> activation*. {NMDA & AMPA are classified as glutamate receptors vs.

> opioid receptors.}

>

> Glutamate Receptors -Structures and Functions:

>

> http://www.bris.ac.uk/Depts/Synaptic/info/glutamate.html

>

> Memantine (Namenda) is now being marketed in the US as " an improved

> magnesium " in terms of relatively well tolerated NMDA protection (but

> magnesium also has many other physiological effects that may be

> therapeutic-yet less effective in its role as the physiological NMDA

> block under pathological conditions). Here are some receptor

animations:

>

> http://www.memantine.com/en/mode_of_action/animation

>

http://www.memantine.com/en/studies/preclinical_data/signal-to-noise_hypothesis

>

>

> *LDN Reference:

>

> http://www.ldners.org/Articles/LDN_Medical_Hypotheses.pdf

>

> - If LDN did indeed act as a direct NMDA antagonist, one would expect

> dose dependent psychotomimetic effects (e.g. memory impairment,

> dissociation, hallucinations) such as is seen with ketamine

> analgesia/anesthesia or even high doses of memantine-when administered

> without another specific neuroprotectant like a GABA-A agonist (e.g.

> Valium, propofol) or alpha-2 adrenergic agonist clonidine. However

> LDN's hypothesized AMPA antagonism may theorectically serve as an NMDA

> neuroprotectant.

>

> Anyone learns otherwise let us know, Best Wishes, Josh

>