Re: The Work & (In)Fidelity

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Group,

>

> I'm new here (first post, been lurking for a few weeks), and I have

> some questions I'd like your input on.

>

> Some personal history first. I picked up Loving What Is a few years

> ago, and read it (well really glanced through it), and put it down

> again. I was not ready for the information, but tiny seeds were

> planted. In the past few months, however, I've really noticed my

> thoughts coming back to the structure of The Work, and realized that

> maybe those seeds are ready to bloom, and I've gone back to the book

> and read it more thoroughly and am starting her newest book, I Need

> Your Love, Is That True.

>

> My question is this. It seems to me, that people who ascribe to The

> Work, can rationalize or justify their way into and out of (in)

> fidelity rather easily by assuming that very little of what we know

> and trust about other people is " true. " I've struggled with this,

> internally and externally for some time now. Externally, by seeing

> marriage after marriage and relationship after relationship of

> friends and family members just fall apart through

> divorce/separation and spread of fatal disease (one man (friend of

> the family) married for 30+ years infected his wife with HIV from

> decades of promiscuous extra-marital behavior). Internally, by my

> uncanny ability to continually form attachments, through intense

> mutual attraction, with men who are not completely " available " to me

> (it used to be married men, now I've downgraded (or is it upgraded?)

> to men who are in " long-term commitments " but still unhappy yet not

> willing to leave).

>

> If the tenets of The Work are true, that you can only know yourself,

> and it's truth-reality based to have and embrace the fundamental

> belief that another person can never be " had " by anyone else, is it

> true then that the foundation of marriage is in and of itself a

> STORY we tell each other and society in order to maintain belief in

> people that is so easily shattered?

>

> It's just that I find The Work liberating in one aspect, and utterly

> depressing in another. Is true commitment just a " story? " Is

> freedom to be with whomever we choose at the time or to " love " one

> person and " make love " to another, the only truth-based reality we

> can know?

>

> Thanks in advance for any and all responses. Few people I know have

> read or understand her work, so this forum, hopefully, will help me

> gain more insight into what The Work is, and what it is not.

>

my thoughts:

Is marriage a story? yes.

Is true commitment a story? yes.

If these story's work for you, you may aswell keep them.

seems to have the story of marriage and she seems to enjoy it.

Philip

[Guest guest]

Hi faithful2000.

Welcome here.

I think a romantic relationship is indeed a story, or concept if you like.

You'll find more than an answer to your question in the book you just

started reading, I Need

Your Love, Is That True.

Love,

.

....... Original Message .......

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 16:20:21 -0000 " faythful2000 "

wrote:

>Hi Group,

>

>I'm new here (first post, been lurking for a few weeks), and I have

>some questions I'd like your input on.

>

>Some personal history first. I picked up Loving What Is a few years

>ago, and read it (well really glanced through it), and put it down

>again. I was not ready for the information, but tiny seeds were

>planted. In the past few months, however, I've really noticed my

>thoughts coming back to the structure of The Work, and realized that

>maybe those seeds are ready to bloom, and I've gone back to the book

>and read it more thoroughly and am starting her newest book, I Need

>Your Love, Is That True.

>

>My question is this. It seems to me, that people who ascribe to The

>Work, can rationalize or justify their way into and out of (in)

>fidelity rather easily by assuming that very little of what we know

>and trust about other people is " true. " I've struggled with this,

>internally and externally for some time now. Externally, by seeing

>marriage after marriage and relationship after relationship of

>friends and family members just fall apart through

>divorce/separation and spread of fatal disease (one man (friend of

>the family) married for 30+ years infected his wife with HIV from

>decades of promiscuous extra-marital behavior). Internally, by my

>uncanny ability to continually form attachments, through intense

>mutual attraction, with men who are not completely " available " to me

>(it used to be married men, now I've downgraded (or is it upgraded?)

>to men who are in " long-term commitments " but still unhappy yet not

>willing to leave).

>

>If the tenets of The Work are true, that you can only know yourself,

>and it's truth-reality based to have and embrace the fundamental

>belief that another person can never be " had " by anyone else, is it

>true then that the foundation of marriage is in and of itself a

>STORY we tell each other and society in order to maintain belief in

>people that is so easily shattered?

>

>It's just that I find The Work liberating in one aspect, and utterly

>depressing in another. Is true commitment just a " story? " Is

>freedom to be with whomever we choose at the time or to " love " one

>person and " make love " to another, the only truth-based reality we

>can know?

>

>Thanks in advance for any and all responses. Few people I know have

>read or understand her work, so this forum, hopefully, will help me

>gain more insight into what The Work is, and what it is not.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Hi Group,

> >

> > I'm new here (first post, been lurking for a few weeks), and I

have

> > some questions I'd like your input on.

> >

> > Some personal history first. I picked up Loving What Is a few

years

> > ago, and read it (well really glanced through it), and put it

down

> > again. I was not ready for the information, but tiny seeds were

> > planted. In the past few months, however, I've really noticed my

> > thoughts coming back to the structure of The Work, and realized

that

> > maybe those seeds are ready to bloom, and I've gone back to the

book

> > and read it more thoroughly and am starting her newest book, I

Need

> > Your Love, Is That True.

> >

> > My question is this. It seems to me, that people who ascribe to

The

> > Work, can rationalize or justify their way into and out of (in)

> > fidelity rather easily by assuming that very little of what we

know

> > and trust about other people is " true. " I've struggled with

this,

> > internally and externally for some time now. Externally, by

seeing

> > marriage after marriage and relationship after relationship of

> > friends and family members just fall apart through

> > divorce/separation and spread of fatal disease (one man (friend

of

> > the family) married for 30+ years infected his wife with HIV

from

> > decades of promiscuous extra-marital behavior). Internally, by

my

> > uncanny ability to continually form attachments, through intense

> > mutual attraction, with men who are not completely " available "

to me

> > (it used to be married men, now I've downgraded (or is it

upgraded?)

> > to men who are in " long-term commitments " but still unhappy yet

not

> > willing to leave).

> >

> > If the tenets of The Work are true, that you can only know

yourself,

> > and it's truth-reality based to have and embrace the fundamental

> > belief that another person can never be " had " by anyone else, is

it

> > true then that the foundation of marriage is in and of itself a

> > STORY we tell each other and society in order to maintain belief

in

> > people that is so easily shattered?

> >

> > It's just that I find The Work liberating in one aspect, and

utterly

> > depressing in another. Is true commitment just a " story? " Is

> > freedom to be with whomever we choose at the time or to " love "

one

> > person and " make love " to another, the only truth-based reality

we

> > can know?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for any and all responses. Few people I know

have

> > read or understand her work, so this forum, hopefully, will help

me

> > gain more insight into what The Work is, and what it is not.

> >

>

> my thoughts:

> Is marriage a story? yes.

> Is true commitment a story? yes.

> If these story's work for you, you may aswell keep them.

> seems to have the story of marriage and she seems to enjoy

it.

>

> Philip

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear faythful,

thank you for your questions and welcome to the group.

> My question is this. It seems to me, that people who ascribe to The

> Work, can rationalize or justify their way into and out of (in)

> fidelity

Yes. People can use ANYTHING to justify what they do.

Even the work.

> If the tenets of The Work are true, that you can only know yourself,

> and it's truth-reality based to have and embrace the fundamental

> belief that another person can never be " had " by anyone else, is it

> true then that the foundation of marriage is in and of itself a

> STORY we tell each other and society in order to maintain belief in

> people that is so easily shattered?

I consider that almost accurate, with one difference: we don't tell

the story to maintain belief in others, we tell the story to maintain

the belief in ourselves.

> It's just that I find The Work liberating in one aspect, and utterly

> depressing in another. Is true commitment just a " story? " Is

> freedom to be with whomever we choose at the time or to " love " one

> person and " make love " to another, the only truth-based reality we

> can know?

If you do the work, and find something that is depressing, you have

just found a belief you attach to that isn't true for you.

Pain kicks in when you attach to a belief that's not true. That can

happen in relationships, for instance. When my relationship ends, I

feel pain especially when I picture a beautiful future, together.

Because I " know " it won't happen, and at the same time I think it

should happen.

When I look at a picture from the past, happy memories may arise. I

can feel a warmth around my heart, tenderness and love. That's what

it feels like to look at a story that is true for me. Or I can feel

pain, if I believe that the moment is over, and nothing likely will

ever happen again. That's what it feels like to look at a story that

is not true for me.

> Thanks in advance for any and all responses. Few people I know have

> read or understand her work, so this forum, hopefully, will help me

> gain more insight into what The Work is, and what it is not.

The work is four questions and a turnaround. Answering them honestly

for yourself, without preference of an outcome, can help you to

examine your stories and find wich are true and wich aren't. For

yourself.

In my experience there is no way of really understanding the work

from a theoretical point of view. The only way to understand it is to

live it.

Love,

Am 15.12.2005 um 17:20 schrieb faythful2000:

> Hi Group,

>

> I'm new here (first post, been lurking for a few weeks), and I have

> some questions I'd like your input on.

>

> Some personal history first. I picked up Loving What Is a few years

> ago, and read it (well really glanced through it), and put it down

> again. I was not ready for the information, but tiny seeds were

> planted. In the past few months, however, I've really noticed my

> thoughts coming back to the structure of The Work, and realized that

> maybe those seeds are ready to bloom, and I've gone back to the book

> and read it more thoroughly and am starting her newest book, I Need

> Your Love, Is That True.

>

> My question is this. It seems to me, that people who ascribe to The

> Work, can rationalize or justify their way into and out of (in)

> fidelity rather easily by assuming that very little of what we know

> and trust about other people is " true. " I've struggled with this,

> internally and externally for some time now. Externally, by seeing

> marriage after marriage and relationship after relationship of

> friends and family members just fall apart through

> divorce/separation and spread of fatal disease (one man (friend of

> the family) married for 30+ years infected his wife with HIV from

> decades of promiscuous extra-marital behavior). Internally, by my

> uncanny ability to continually form attachments, through intense

> mutual attraction, with men who are not completely " available " to me

> (it used to be married men, now I've downgraded (or is it upgraded?)

> to men who are in " long-term commitments " but still unhappy yet not

> willing to leave).

>

> If the tenets of The Work are true, that you can only know yourself,

> and it's truth-reality based to have and embrace the fundamental

> belief that another person can never be " had " by anyone else, is it

> true then that the foundation of marriage is in and of itself a

> STORY we tell each other and society in order to maintain belief in

> people that is so easily shattered?

>

> It's just that I find The Work liberating in one aspect, and utterly

> depressing in another. Is true commitment just a " story? " Is

> freedom to be with whomever we choose at the time or to " love " one

> person and " make love " to another, the only truth-based reality we

> can know?

>

> Thanks in advance for any and all responses. Few people I know have

> read or understand her work, so this forum, hopefully, will help me

> gain more insight into what The Work is, and what it is not.

[Guest guest]

Dear Faythful,

Welcome to the group and thank you for taking the time to post your

thoughts here.

You said:

" It's just that I find The Work liberating in one aspect, and utterly

depressing in another. "

I feel that I understand what you mean. For me, The Work has felt

depressing when the response I get when I go within argues with my

old time religion. And when I feel that depression, I know that I

have stumbled into something good. I find that I have many beliefs

that I just take for granted and these beliefs create and shape the

world " out there " as I know it. When these beliefs are brought to

question " Is it true? " , and I find that I can't really know that they

are, then that can feel quite uncomfortable for a while. Some

examples would be like:

" People should not lie. "

" People should not be cruel. "

" People should be faithful. "

What I have found via The Work is that people do what they do and

then we put our story onto it and judge it. By doing The Work, we

can find that what we are really judging is our own story of what

someone did, we are judging our own belief system.

Further, I have found that what we do is motivated by our desire for

Love, Approval and/or Appreciation. As says, people will do

anything (and that means anything) in order to get Love, Approval or

Appreciation. Or as the Course In Miracles puts it, every action is

either an act of Love or a cry for Love.

Thanks for the opportunity for me to tell myself these things.

Blessings, Steve D.

>

> Hi Group,

>

> I'm new here (first post, been lurking for a few weeks), and I have

> some questions I'd like your input on.

>

> Some personal history first. I picked up Loving What Is a few

years

> ago, and read it (well really glanced through it), and put it down

> again. I was not ready for the information, but tiny seeds were

> planted. In the past few months, however, I've really noticed my

> thoughts coming back to the structure of The Work, and realized

that

> maybe those seeds are ready to bloom, and I've gone back to the

book

> and read it more thoroughly and am starting her newest book, I Need

> Your Love, Is That True.

>

> My question is this. It seems to me, that people who ascribe to

The

> Work, can rationalize or justify their way into and out of (in)

> fidelity rather easily by assuming that very little of what we know

> and trust about other people is " true. " I've struggled with this,

> internally and externally for some time now. Externally, by seeing

> marriage after marriage and relationship after relationship of

> friends and family members just fall apart through

> divorce/separation and spread of fatal disease (one man (friend of

> the family) married for 30+ years infected his wife with HIV from

> decades of promiscuous extra-marital behavior). Internally, by my

> uncanny ability to continually form attachments, through intense

> mutual attraction, with men who are not completely " available " to

me

> (it used to be married men, now I've downgraded (or is it

upgraded?)

> to men who are in " long-term commitments " but still unhappy yet not

> willing to leave).

>

> If the tenets of The Work are true, that you can only know

yourself,

> and it's truth-reality based to have and embrace the fundamental

> belief that another person can never be " had " by anyone else, is it

> true then that the foundation of marriage is in and of itself a

> STORY we tell each other and society in order to maintain belief in

> people that is so easily shattered?

>

> It's just that I find The Work liberating in one aspect, and

utterly

> depressing in another. Is true commitment just a " story? " Is

> freedom to be with whomever we choose at the time or to " love " one

> person and " make love " to another, the only truth-based reality we

> can know?

>

> Thanks in advance for any and all responses. Few people I know

have

> read or understand her work, so this forum, hopefully, will help me

> gain more insight into what The Work is, and what it is not.

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I can be unfaithful, and be happy with that, so I don't see a

> reason to do the work on that one.

>

> I can be unfaithful and be unhappy with that, thinking i should be

> deferent than I could use the work not to justify my behavior but

> to stop argue with what is.

>

> We think we should be loyal, I see it as a story

> It is true only if we are...

>

Tami if I even think of being unfaithful to my wife it hurts,

because being unfaithful is out of accord with who I really am i.e.

love. I am loyal to my wife NOT because I believe a story, but as a

result of questioning any thoughts/stories which say that my wife is

anything less than perfect. As says it only takes one person

to have a happy marriage and that would be me.

Have a beautiful day

" Nothing can cost you someone you love. The only thing that can cost

you your husband is if you believe a thought. That's how you move

away from him. That's how the marriage ends. You are one with your

husband until you believe the thought that he should look a certain

way, he should give you something, he should be something other than

what he is. That's how you divorce him. Right then and there you

have lost your marriage. " Byron

[Guest guest]

>

>

> It's just that I find The Work liberating in one aspect, and utterly

> depressing in another. Is true commitment just a " story? " Is

> freedom to be with whomever we choose at the time or to " love " one

> person and " make love " to another, the only truth-based reality we

> can know?

>

Hi,

The Work for me helps me to remove the blocks to my awareness of

love's presence. How could that ever be depressing except to my ego?

True commitment is not a story, but something which happens naturally

when the blocks to love have been undone with the Work. How could love

be unfaithful to love?

Just some reflections

" Sanity doesn't suffer, ever . . . ever! Sanity doesn't suffer, ever,

ever! Isn't that lovely? " Byron

[Guest guest]

says " if you want to see the love of your life look in the

mirror.. "

I like that one because it means your love can not leave you ever..

Also on a tape someone said they wanted to meet their soul mate and

katie said we are all soul mates ..

Ive heard Some teachers say we are all one soul..

Another katie quote.. " The desperate one, the hopeless one, is an

unenlightened cell of my own body. ITs my own body Im talking about

the body of the world is my body. .....How can I say no when that

person asks for help? That would be saying no to myself. So I say yes

and i go ITs a privilege ITs more than that :ITs self love. "

Maybe we learn from meeting many lovers.. there are so many divorces

still i love the fact Ive been married 30 years and dont want a

divorce .. and at the same time i dont see anything wrong with people

being married many times either.

Infidelity would bother me because of aides.. i would agree with that.

but it is a reality and aides is for some a path to God.

at least that is my humble opinion. ANd quotes as usual.

love, roslyn

> > >

> > > Hi Group,

> > >

> > > I'm new here (first post, been lurking for a few weeks), and I

> have

> > > some questions I'd like your input on.

> > >

> > > Some personal history first. I picked up Loving What Is a few

> years

> > > ago, and read it (well really glanced through it), and put it

> down

> > > again. I was not ready for the information, but tiny seeds were

> > > planted. In the past few months, however, I've really noticed my

> > > thoughts coming back to the structure of The Work, and realized

> that

> > > maybe those seeds are ready to bloom, and I've gone back to the

> book

> > > and read it more thoroughly and am starting her newest book, I

> Need

> > > Your Love, Is That True.

> > >

> > > My question is this. It seems to me, that people who ascribe to

> The

> > > Work, can rationalize or justify their way into and out of (in)

> > > fidelity rather easily by assuming that very little of what we

> know

> > > and trust about other people is " true. " I've struggled with

> this,

> > > internally and externally for some time now. Externally, by

> seeing

> > > marriage after marriage and relationship after relationship of

> > > friends and family members just fall apart through

> > > divorce/separation and spread of fatal disease (one man (friend

> of

> > > the family) married for 30+ years infected his wife with HIV

> from

> > > decades of promiscuous extra-marital behavior). Internally, by

> my

> > > uncanny ability to continually form attachments, through intense

> > > mutual attraction, with men who are not completely " available "

> to me

> > > (it used to be married men, now I've downgraded (or is it

> upgraded?)

> > > to men who are in " long-term commitments " but still unhappy yet

> not

> > > willing to leave).

> > >

> > > If the tenets of The Work are true, that you can only know

> yourself,

> > > and it's truth-reality based to have and embrace the fundamental

> > > belief that another person can never be " had " by anyone else, is

> it

> > > true then that the foundation of marriage is in and of itself a

> > > STORY we tell each other and society in order to maintain belief

> in

> > > people that is so easily shattered?

> > >

> > > It's just that I find The Work liberating in one aspect, and

> utterly

> > > depressing in another. Is true commitment just a " story? " Is

> > > freedom to be with whomever we choose at the time or to " love "

> one

> > > person and " make love " to another, the only truth-based reality

> we

> > > can know?

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance for any and all responses. Few people I know

> have

> > > read or understand her work, so this forum, hopefully, will help

> me

> > > gain more insight into what The Work is, and what it is not.

> > >

> >

> > my thoughts:

> > Is marriage a story? yes.

> > Is true commitment a story? yes.

> > If these story's work for you, you may aswell keep them.

> > seems to have the story of marriage and she seems to enjoy

> it.

> >

> > Philip

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi

Nothing I say or write is true.

Does it seem to me like has the story of being married? yes.

Why? Because she says she is married.

Is she attached to her story? i think not.

The rest of what you write seems like a nice story.

Philip

> >

> > Hi Group,

> >

> > I'm new here (first post, been lurking for a few weeks), and I

have

> > some questions I'd like your input on.

> >

> > Some personal history first. I picked up Loving What Is a few

years

> > ago, and read it (well really glanced through it), and put it

down

> > again. I was not ready for the information, but tiny seeds were

> > planted. In the past few months, however, I've really noticed my

> > thoughts coming back to the structure of The Work, and realized

that

> > maybe those seeds are ready to bloom, and I've gone back to the

book

> > and read it more thoroughly and am starting her newest book, I

Need

> > Your Love, Is That True.

> >

> > My question is this. It seems to me, that people who ascribe to

The

> > Work, can rationalize or justify their way into and out of (in)

> > fidelity rather easily by assuming that very little of what we

know

> > and trust about other people is " true. " I've struggled with

this,

> > internally and externally for some time now. Externally, by

seeing

> > marriage after marriage and relationship after relationship of

> > friends and family members just fall apart through

> > divorce/separation and spread of fatal disease (one man (friend

of

> > the family) married for 30+ years infected his wife with HIV

from

> > decades of promiscuous extra-marital behavior). Internally, by

my

> > uncanny ability to continually form attachments, through intense

> > mutual attraction, with men who are not completely " available "

to me

> > (it used to be married men, now I've downgraded (or is it

upgraded?)

> > to men who are in " long-term commitments " but still unhappy yet

not

> > willing to leave).

> >

> > If the tenets of The Work are true, that you can only know

yourself,

> > and it's truth-reality based to have and embrace the fundamental

> > belief that another person can never be " had " by anyone else, is

it

> > true then that the foundation of marriage is in and of itself a

> > STORY we tell each other and society in order to maintain belief

in

> > people that is so easily shattered?

> >

> > It's just that I find The Work liberating in one aspect, and

utterly

> > depressing in another. Is true commitment just a " story? " Is

> > freedom to be with whomever we choose at the time or to " love "

one

> > person and " make love " to another, the only truth-based reality

we

> > can know?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for any and all responses. Few people I know

have

> > read or understand her work, so this forum, hopefully, will help

me

> > gain more insight into what The Work is, and what it is not.

> >

>

> my thoughts:

> Is marriage a story? yes.

> Is true commitment a story? yes.

> If these story's work for you, you may aswell keep them.

> seems to have the story of marriage and she seems to enjoy

it.

>

> Philip

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>