Trampled Rights/Read With Care/Very Long

[Guest guest]

E :-} Greetings: Before going to work Thursday morning I as one of the

moderators sent a message posted by Vasko back to him because

he wanted to turn the list into an American site for petitions dealing

with American medical issues. After doing this I went to work.

When this list was initially started it was done so that we would have

and I quote from the original text " A support resource for adults with

chronic physical pain problems. Emphasis is placed on helping to cope

and " have a life. " This was the initial concept posted by the now

deceased list owner Ken Turbin. Anyone who wants to check this out only

has to go to the opening statement to read what is written. Each member

can also access our list files to find a copy of our rules. Here is the

URL.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chronic_pain/files/

When I got home tonight I received the following threat from Mr.

Vasco .

> ,

> Just so you know. The next time that a message of mine is refused to be

> sent out to the group I shall sue you/moderators personally for taking away

> my " Freedom of Speech " . If you boot me from this group because of this

> fact I shall sue as well. I shall inform the highest authorities and all

> the organizations that deal with that breech and bring their full weight

> down upon Chronic Pain Moderators.

>

Now here is the quandary? If we as moderators bow to wishes of Mr.

Vasco what could possible happen? First possibly nothing, second we as

moderators could be sued and taken to court. How many of the members

would come to our aid and help pay our legal bills? WHAT WOULD HAPPEN

TO THE LIST? I personally can barely support myself and pay my own

living expenses. We have not taken away his FREEDOM OF SPEECH! If he

wants to stand on a SOAPBOX just do it someplace else.

Some may think this is an American list. THIS ISN'T AN AMERICAN LIST.

If it were American it would only be open to Americans. I know

personally that there are Australians, Canadians, and people from

England just to name a few who are currently active.

I am a very tired lady, I try as honestly as possible to be fair to all

members. This is one of the criteria of being a moderator here. If the

members want to see this list fall apart and become something it wasn't

designed to do, I can pack my bags and keyboard and leave. I don't

need to be threatened. Due to our [the moderators care attention and

many hours of voluntary work we have the list we have today.] Will you

allow Mr. Vasco to tear us apart, I sincerely hope not!! I don't want

to start a flame war but as I said I am tired of taking hits on my chin

because I refuse to bow to someone who [well I won't say

anymore]........

Be Blessed

E. Darwent

Moderator, Chronic Pain

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

These are my three treasures,

Compassion, Frugality, & Humility.

Being Compassionate one has Courage,

Being Frugal one has Abundance.

Being Humble one becomes the chief of all vessels.

~~Lao Tzu~~

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[Guest guest]

{ Extraneous text deleted by Moderator }

If your going to speak about me I suggest you learn how to spell my name

correctly.

Steve VASKO

-

[Guest guest]

> E :-} Greetings:

Hello . I hope that work went well on Thursday and the commute

was smooth.

> Before going to work Thursday morning I as one of the

> moderators sent a message posted by Vasko back to him because

> he wanted to turn the list into an American site for petitions dealing

> with American medical issues.

>

I've seen this issue on other yahoo groups that deal with disabilities.

> When I got home tonight I received the following threat from Mr.

> Vasco .

>

>

> > ,

> > Just so you know. The next time that a message of mine is

refused to be

> > sent out to the group I shall sue you/moderators personally for

taking away

> > my " Freedom of Speech " . If you boot me from this group because

of this

> > fact I shall sue as well. I shall inform the highest authorities

and all

> > the organizations that deal with that breech and bring their full

weight

> > down upon Chronic Pain Moderators.

> >

I've been threatened with this too. I think the funniest place I was

threatened with this was on an Australian irc network by an Australian.

> Now here is the quandary? If we as moderators bow to wishes of Mr.

> Vasco what could possible happen?

NO!!!

You have not violated his " right to free speech. " This is not an

American group. He had other options to promote this petition. For

intance, he could have sent a message saying " I have a url for an

online petition that deals with American medical issues. Please email

me with the information. " (He misspelled breach too.)

>First possibly nothing, second we as

> moderators could be sued and taken to court.

Let him pursue it if he wants, this won't end up in court. Sadly, he

could be spending his time and energy helping rather than hurting his,

and our, cause.

> How many of the members

> would come to our aid and help pay our legal bills? WHAT WOULD HAPPEN

> TO THE LIST?

The list will go on. For one reason, unfortunately, the reason for

the list will not go away.

> We have not taken away his FREEDOM OF SPEECH!

I agree. To help your peace of mind, and lower your stress level over

this issue, perhaps Yahoogroups has some link or disclaimer somewhere?

The rules of the group are clearly stated on the homepage, in a file

that is linked to the homepage, and is sent to members when they join.

Mr. Vasco cannot claim ignorance of the rules of the group.

..... snip... I can pack my bags and keyboard and leave.

Please don't. I hope you get something you need from this list too.

Mira

[Guest guest]

{ Extraneous text deleted by Moderator }

I don't know the full story. So to be fair to and to

everybody I say that and I know that. But , as an American,

has the right to post his messages on his own list serve/group.

Yahoo is a free service. There are others. He can apply to those

services and start a list/group of his own to serve his own ideals

of posting whichever information or petitions he so desires. That's

all I know. Please, there's no need for anyone to launch threats or

upset anyone else in some other manner. Life is distressing enough.

Let's just find different avenues to satisfy us all without hurting

the other. Thank you. Take care everyone.

Quita.

[Guest guest]

,

This isn't the first time that Mr. Vasko has started trouble on the

board. He has also complained multiple times about being moderated.

I run some forums on Delphi, and assist on some others. None of them

have the readership that this list does, and boy am I glad. What I

do have gives me a headache already. What I tell people who complain

to me about the way things are done is that they are always free to

leave and start their own forum (or list, or whatever).

Politics are a difficult thing to bring up anytime, but on a

multinational list like this, regardless of whether or not the

majority of the list is American, it can be espeically difficult.

I don't think anyone's rights were trampled. The Supreme Court has

already ruled that Freedom of Speech does not mean the freedom to say

anything anywhere anytime, for example it is against the law to yell

fire in a crowded theater when there is no fire, or to incite a

riot. Is that trampling on the rights of citizens or is thast

protecting citizens? Following the rules of a list that one is on,

and not getting posts posted due to violation of those rules does not

qualify as not granting freedom of speech.

Sorry for my little rant, but this kind of stuff really riles me up.

Americans are over litigous (part of why it is hard to find docs thta

will help us, ask your doc his malpractice insurance bill sometime),

and we sue over stupid stuff.

[Guest guest]

{ Extraneous text deleted by Moderator }

I have never sued anyone with the exception of an anesthetist that blinded

me during my last surgery even though I have had many times in which I could

have filed suit.

Steve