nirHEG Neurofeedback

[Guest guest]

Jane ~

I found it!! However it is very abstract, there may be another , more detailed paper.

~

Hemoencephalography for Autistic Spectrum Disorder

Coben, PhD

Private Practice; Director, NeuroRehabilitation and Neuropsychological Services. Massapequa Park, New Yorkrobcoben@...

Category: Research & Clinical Application

Introduction. The epidemiology of Autism is approximately 60 per 10,000 (1 in 166) children (Medical Research Council, 2001). Assessment-guided neurofeedback has been shown to significantly reduce the core symptoms of Autism (Coben, 2005). Hemoencephalography is a form of neurofeedback that has also been successfully utilized to improve function in patients with a wide range of diagnoses including Autism (Toomim, 2004).

Method. Thirty-five patients with Autism received 20 sessions of Near Infrared or Passive Infrared Hemoencephalography (nir / pir HEG). The wait list control group (n=12) was matched for gender, age, race, handedness, IQ and other treatments. All patients had completed 20 sessions of EEG Biofeedback. The next phase of training was assessment-guided HEG. All patients had identified frontal system dysfunction based on neurobehavioral, neuropsychological testing, infrared imaging, and QEEG data.

Results. Findings indicated a success rate of 90%. A 42% reduction in symptoms was reported. Social interaction deficits decreased by 55%. Communication and social communication deficits decreased by 55% and 52%, respectively. There were statistically significant (p < .05) improvements in neurobehavioral and neuropsychological functioning. These improvements were associated with enhancement of thermal regulation and reduction in abnormal QEEG findings.

Conclusion. These findings suggest that Autism can be successfully treated with assessment-guided pir and nir HEG.

Re: nirheg neurofeedback

Kirk,Urrgh! I can't seem to get the abstract on the ISNR web page. When Iclick on 2006 "papers," an error pops up. I'm going to email the ISNRfolks, but if you know another way to get the abstract, would you postit? There are several of us interested in what Rob did.Thanks,Jane

[Guest guest]

Jane,

I received an error message when I tried to access the scientific abstracts for 2006. I learned a back handed method to get to some, but I don't know if they are current. Click on the 2007 Conference in the first rectangle at the top of the ISNR home page. Then click on Scientific Papers Abstracts under the heading of still available from 2006 conference to access them.

In the abstract looking at the use of nirHEG and pirHEG it stated an overall success rate of 90% and a reduction of symptoms by 42%. There may be more information available given in the presentation or in another scientific paper which I am not aware of. As a conclusion, Coben states, "These findings suggest that Autism can be successfully treated with assessment-guided pir and nir HEG.

Hope this helps,

JD Elder

[Guest guest]

http://www.isnr.org/2006/06papers.htm

nirHEG Neurofeedback

Jane,

I received an error message when I tried to access the scientific abstracts for 2006. I learned a back handed method to get to some, but I don't know if they are current. Click on the 2007 Conference in the first rectangle at the top of the ISNR home page. Then click on Scientific Papers Abstracts under the heading of still available from 2006 conference to access them.

In the abstract looking at the use of nirHEG and pirHEG it stated an overall success rate of 90% and a reduction of symptoms by 42%. There may be more information available given in the presentation or in another scientific paper which I am not aware of. As a conclusion, Coben states, "These findings suggest that Autism can be successfully treated with assessment-guided pir and nir HEG.

Hope this helps,

JD Elder

[Guest guest]

Pete,

Yes, the same. I don't have my notes near me, but he did qEEGs baseline, after 20 sessions, after 40 sessions, and after 60 sessions, and there were improvements with each type of training on coherence measures and behavioral rating scales - following the Bipolar Interhemipheric training, the HEG, and the right frontal-parietal coherence training.

Kirk

Re: nirheg neurofeedback>>I reccomend going directly to the source, Herschel Toomim.>He is THE authority on HEG training.>>I strongly suggest his nir rather than the pir.>I have both, and to me, nir wins hands-down. >Its better documented, researched, and presented.>>I have noticed more clarity and ability to sustain attention by >training myself with NIR. expect to keep training and seeing >improvement over the long-term, mostly because you're actually >building new connections in the frontal lobe.>>Check out Herschel's site>http://www.biocompresearch.org/what_is_heg.htm>>He's truly THE pioneer.>>My Best>Ken Van Deusen16246 SW 92nd Ave, Miami, FL 33157http://www.brain-trainer.com305/321-1595pvdadpmindspring

Van Deusen

16246 SW 92nd Ave, Miami, FL 33157

http://www.brain-trainer.com

305/321-1595

pvdadpmindspring

[Guest guest]

Hello group

as to establishing new connections in the frontal lobe with HEG, I'm

including the information on which I based this statement.

I'm open to the idea that I've misinterpreted it...see what you

think.

This is from the discussion portion of a paper by H. Toomim, Mize,

Yeekwong, M. Toomim, Marsh, Kozlowski, Kimball, and Redmond.

http://www.biocompresearch.org/Tinius%20HEG%204%2012%2004.htm

Intentional Increase of Cerebral Blood Oxygenation

Using Hemoencephalography (HEG):

An Efficient Brain Exercise Therapy

.... " The results of this study may be a small step along the way

toward harnessing the brain's plasticity for development and repair.

As a dynamic system, the brain may be continually degenerating and

regenerating to maintain equilibrium at its current volume.

Intentional brain activity can then raise the current level to a

more useful condition and the " Use it or lose it " (Diamond et al.,

1975) metaphor may be applicable. HEG provides a simple way to

increase neural demand for energy to fuel the basic angiogenic

process that supports brain plasticity. " Neural progenitor cells

proliferate in response to growth factors that are associated with

angiogenesis… " (Palmer, Wilhoite, & Gage, 2000) and it is certainly

possible that the increased blood flow after HEG training may be the

result of angiogenesis.

Also written by Toomim, found at:

http://www.biocompresearch.org/heg_instructions.htm

Brain activation is an exercise. Fresh blood brings in the necessary

nutrition, oxygen and the glucose, that supplies the energy for a

brain module to efficiently do its assigned job. Exercise affects

the brain much like it affects muscles. New capillaries are formed

to feed neurons. New connections between neurons are formed to carry

information. Like a muscle, with exercise, the brain builds a

vascular system, enabling more brain tissue for use by this brain

area. The brain grows physically. With exercise, the brain builds a

vascular system, enabling more brain efficiency in its use. Exercise

is the road to a healthy brain!

Thanks for keeping me honest, Pete

[Guest guest]

Ken,

I don't think you need any help staying honest. I was just interested in seeing

any evidence that supported your assertion, which would have been brand new to

me. The question did result in some interesting information that I hadn't yet

seen from Rob's presentation.

In the first quote from the unpublished (?) study, there are a lot of " may " do

this and " may " do that. Sounds like a drug commercial (there is evidence that x

may relate to y and that our product may help increase x, which may... " ) The

bottom line, though, is that angiogenesis, which relates to producing new

capillaries and vessels to supply blood to an area, certainly would be one of

the great benefits of HEG--and, by the way, was shown in two case studies by

Lubar in the early 90's to be a " side-effect " of training to reduce theta/beta

ratios in the central strip as well. I don't see the step from blood supply to

connectivity shown or even claimed in this paragraph.

The second paragraph you quoted does include the line " New capillaries are

formed to feed neurons. New connections between neurons are formed to carry

information. " The first seems to have some basis, but the second statement

appears to be just hanging out there. It seems to me to be the equivalent of

(to continue the exercise analogy) saying that jogging, which probably increase

blood supply and oxygenation, will improve your golf swing.

I would love to see someone try a study where HEG was tried alone for 20

sessions, not following a training that would be expected to start the improving

of connectivity, and look at pre-post connectivity measures. It certainly may

be true that underpowered neurons are less able to communicate effectively and

that providing greater metabolic resources to them will allow them to move

toward a more natural level of connectivity. That would be great to know.

Thanks,

Pete

Re: nirheg neurofeedback

>

>Hello group

>

>as to establishing new connections in the frontal lobe with HEG, I'm

>including the information on which I based this statement.

>I'm open to the idea that I've misinterpreted it...see what you

>think.

>

>This is from the discussion portion of a paper by H. Toomim, Mize,

>Yeekwong, M. Toomim, Marsh, Kozlowski, Kimball, and Redmond.

>

>http://www.biocompresearch.org/Tinius%20HEG%204%2012%2004.htm

>Intentional Increase of Cerebral Blood Oxygenation

>Using Hemoencephalography (HEG):

>An Efficient Brain Exercise Therapy

>

>... " The results of this study may be a small step along the way

>toward harnessing the brain's plasticity for development and repair.

>As a dynamic system, the brain may be continually degenerating and

>regenerating to maintain equilibrium at its current volume.

>Intentional brain activity can then raise the current level to a

>more useful condition and the " Use it or lose it " (Diamond et al.,

>1975) metaphor may be applicable. HEG provides a simple way to

>increase neural demand for energy to fuel the basic angiogenic

>process that supports brain plasticity. " Neural progenitor cells

>proliferate in response to growth factors that are associated with

>angiogenesis… " (Palmer, Wilhoite, & Gage, 2000) and it is certainly

>possible that the increased blood flow after HEG training may be the

>result of angiogenesis.

>

>

>Also written by Toomim, found at:

>http://www.biocompresearch.org/heg_instructions.htm

>

>Brain activation is an exercise. Fresh blood brings in the necessary

>nutrition, oxygen and the glucose, that supplies the energy for a

>brain module to efficiently do its assigned job. Exercise affects

>the brain much like it affects muscles. New capillaries are formed

>to feed neurons. New connections between neurons are formed to carry

>information. Like a muscle, with exercise, the brain builds a

>vascular system, enabling more brain tissue for use by this brain

>area. The brain grows physically. With exercise, the brain builds a

>vascular system, enabling more brain efficiency in its use. Exercise

>is the road to a healthy brain!

>

>Thanks for keeping me honest, Pete

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

A very important and timely post from you, Pete, on the "benefits" of HEG. I was also put off by the "mays" in the quotes provided by Ken. And isn't there also a caution regarding HEG training? I recall reading (on this list, I'm sure) that it "may" increase hi-beta activity so is probably not a good idea for clients who already have a problem with frontal hi-beta in their EEGs. nick mammano Van Deusen wrote: Ken,I don't think you need any help staying honest. I was just interested in seeing any evidence that supported your assertion, which would have been brand new to me. The question did result in some interesting information that I hadn't yet seen from Rob's presentation.In the first quote from the unpublished (?) study, there are a lot of "may" do this and "may" do that. Sounds like a drug commercial (there is evidence that x may relate to y and that our product may help increase x, which may...") The bottom line, though, is that angiogenesis, which relates to producing new capillaries and vessels to supply blood to an area, certainly would be one of the great benefits of HEG--and, by the way, was shown in two case studies by Lubar in the early 90's to be a "side-effect" of training to reduce theta/beta ratios in the central strip as well. I don't see the step from blood supply to connectivity shown or even claimed in this

paragraph.The second paragraph you quoted does include the line "New capillaries are formed to feed neurons. New connections between neurons are formed to carry information." The first seems to have some basis, but the second statement appears to be just hanging out there. It seems to me to be the equivalent of (to continue the exercise analogy) saying that jogging, which probably increase blood supply and oxygenation, will improve your golf swing.I would love to see someone try a study where HEG was tried alone for 20 sessions, not following a training that would be expected to start the improving of connectivity, and look at pre-post connectivity measures. It certainly may be true that underpowered neurons are less able to communicate effectively and that providing greater metabolic resources to them will allow them to move toward a more natural level of connectivity. That would be great to know.Thanks,Pete-----Original

Message----->From: kenhuttoncmt <kenhuttoncmt>>Sent: Oct 4, 2006 11:22 PM>To: braintrainer >Subject: Re: nirheg neurofeedback>>Hello group>>as to establishing new connections in the frontal lobe with HEG, I'm >including the information on which I based this statement. >I'm open to the idea that I've misinterpreted it...see what you >think. >>This is from the discussion portion of a paper by H. Toomim, Mize, >Yeekwong, M. Toomim, Marsh, Kozlowski, Kimball, and Redmond.>>http://www.biocompresearch.org/Tinius%20HEG%204%2012%2004.htm>Intentional Increase of Cerebral Blood Oxygenation>Using

Hemoencephalography (HEG):>An Efficient Brain Exercise Therapy>>..."The results of this study may be a small step along the way >toward harnessing the brain's plasticity for development and repair. >As a dynamic system, the brain may be continually degenerating and >regenerating to maintain equilibrium at its current volume. >Intentional brain activity can then raise the current level to a >more useful condition and the "Use it or lose it" (Diamond et al., >1975) metaphor may be applicable. HEG provides a simple way to >increase neural demand for energy to fuel the basic angiogenic >process that supports brain plasticity. "Neural progenitor cells >proliferate in response to growth factors that are associated with >angiogenesis…" (Palmer, Wilhoite, & Gage, 2000) and it is certainly >possible that the increased blood flow after HEG training may be the >result of

angiogenesis.>>>Also written by Toomim, found at: >http://www.biocompresearch.org/heg_instructions.htm>>Brain activation is an exercise. Fresh blood brings in the necessary >nutrition, oxygen and the glucose, that supplies the energy for a >brain module to efficiently do its assigned job. Exercise affects >the brain much like it affects muscles. New capillaries are formed >to feed neurons. New connections between neurons are formed to carry >information. Like a muscle, with exercise, the brain builds a >vascular system, enabling more brain tissue for use by this brain >area. The brain grows physically. With exercise, the brain builds a >vascular system, enabling more brain efficiency in its use. Exercise >is the road to a healthy brain!>>Thanks for keeping me honest,

Pete>>>>>> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Jane,

I appologize in advance if I'm not more exacting in my response. You know, it was a 20 minute presentation in a large lecture hall, and I had the chance to ask him a question about his choice of protocol sequence.

I think he probably chose to do it the way he did because he was doing research, and one has to have controls. If I remember correctly, he still individualized the treatments. The Bipolar training wasn't all at F7-F8. Sometimes it was across the midline at C3-C4. He said it was "oftentimes" in the "frontal area." He said the most significant finding was greater relative theta in the right posterior region and the right frontal, and also the hypocoherence frontally and fonto-parietally. He also found hyperconnectivity within the alpha band, but hypoconnectivity in the other bands. What stood out for me is when he had a subject with "pure hypoconnectivity" pIR worked far better than nIR (with my eye of the graphs, about 7 times better)- but I had some questions about selection bias that I would need to look more carefully into before saying one is better than the other. He didn't move the nIR headband around the frontal sites as Hershel recommends, and we know that pIR has more global effects.

The s presented at the same session, and said they found right parietal-temporal slowing (at T6 and/or P4) - with slowing or decreased 15-17 Hz beta. They also suggested ACC dysfunction (area 24) correlating, perhaps, with poor affect regulation. They talked about getting at the Hi-beta spindling and high amplitude slow activity at F4 that might correlate with anxiety and panic. They trained down 19-22 Hz activity at FCz. They also found low coherence from the left frontal to right parietal-temporal regions. I have had it suggested to me that this would correlate with being able to activate to task. The kids more on the autistic side (vs the ASD kids) also had left temporal-parietal slowing which one would suspect corresponds to their problems with language.

I don't have pIR, but I have done power training and nIR in the same session. I have found that if I do power training first, the kids seem to get the HEG gain to go up easier, like it's more easily within their control. I don't have enough experience doing it to make any confident assertions about it, though. I've mainly tried it with kids who have excessive eye blinking, after training as far foward as FCz doing standard theta-beta training.

Sorry I can't be more specific. I am left with many of the same questions as you and await the publications to more finely scrutinize the studies.

Kirk

Re: nirheg neurofeedback

Kirk,Thanks so much for the extra information about Rob's ASD training. Iknow it's a stretch to ask you these questions, but perhaps someone atthe presentation asked these also and there were answers that youoverheard.o Do you think there is any reason (besides trying to attributeresults to one approach or the other) not to combine the bipolarinterhemispheric training and the HEG training into one session?o Did Rob say how many minutes he trained for each of the 60sessions, especially for HEG?o Did Rob indicate what he saw on the Q's that indicated he should dobipolar interhemispheric training. And being that he trained at f7/f8,did he see the identical patterns for each of the kids at those sites?o Same question regarding the coherence training: did he use the sametraining at the same sites for each kid?Or, did he not use the same training for all the kids? Thanks for any light you can shed on this.Jane

[Guest guest]

I think the interhemispheric training was used when hypercoherence was

an issue. HEG was then added for those with measured frontal

dysfunction. In the last part of the experiment a group who had the Mu

rhythm was given either coherence or bipolar interhemispheric training.

Both groups showed similar improvements on checklists and neuropsych

tests, but only the coherence group showed a reduction in the Mu rhythm.

All sessions were between 15-25 minutes length, depending on sensitivity

to training.

Mark

Re: nirheg neurofeedback

Kirk,

Thanks so much for the extra information about Rob's ASD training. I

know it's a stretch to ask you these questions, but perhaps someone at

the presentation asked these also and there were answers that you

overheard.

o Do you think there is any reason (besides trying to attribute

results to one approach or the other) not to combine the bipolar

interhemispheric training and the HEG training into one session?

o Did Rob say how many minutes he trained for each of the 60

sessions, especially for HEG?

o Did Rob indicate what he saw on the Q's that indicated he should do

bipolar interhemispheric training. And being that he trained at f7/f8,

did he see the identical patterns for each of the kids at those sites?

o Same question regarding the coherence training: did he use the same

training at the same sites for each kid?

Or, did he not use the same training for all the kids?

Thanks for any light you can shed on this.

Jane

[Guest guest]

Dear Kirk,Thank you again for all the information you provided in answer to my questions. I really appreciate it.Regards,Jane

All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

Kirk,

<<

They also found low coherence from the left frontal to right parietal-temporal regions. I have had it suggested to me that this would correlate with being able to activate to task.

>>

I am very interested in the cross brain (right-left) interactions and connections. Can you please talk about which protocols you have had success with to increase this activity, and which behavioral symptoms are soon improved/affected? Thanks!

~ A

Re: nirheg neurofeedback

Kirk,Thanks so much for the extra information about Rob's ASD training. Iknow it's a stretch to ask you these questions, but perhaps someone atthe presentation asked these also and there were answers that youoverheard.o Do you think there is any reason (besides trying to attributeresults to one approach or the other) not to combine the bipolarinterhemispheric training and the HEG training into one session?o Did Rob say how many minutes he trained for each of the 60sessions, especially for HEG?o Did Rob indicate what he saw on the Q's that indicated he should dobipolar interhemispheric training. And being that he trained at f7/f8,did he see the identical patterns for each of the kids at those sites?o Same question regarding the coherence training: did he use the sametraining at the same sites for each kid?Or, did he not use the same training for all the kids? Thanks for any light you can shed on this.Jane

[Guest guest]

>

> Kirk,

> <<

> They also found low coherence from the left frontal to right

parietal-temporal regions. I have had it suggested to me that this

would correlate with being able to activate to task.

> >>

>

> I am very interested in the cross brain (right-left) interactions

and connections. Can you please talk about which protocols you have

had success with to increase this activity, and which behavioral

symptoms are soon improved/affected? Thanks!

>

> ~ A

,

I have not done this training. I am very interested in coherence

training, and went to every seminar on it at ISNR. I am anxious to

learn it and try it, but I get a lot of different answers and no

convincing systematic means of protocol selection for coherence. My

impression is that everybody's a relative newbie when it comes to

coherence training, with perhaps Joe Horvat and Jon being the

most outspoken advocates - and they have a very different approach!!

It was explained to me thusly by Lubar: The right Parietal may

be involved in creative activity. So let's say that there is a

painter, who has special talents and at times produces inspired

works. But when asked to put together an exhibit of their work,

can't seem to get it together to organize and activate to this task.

The spirit may move him at times, but he can't seem to move himself

on demand.

Now, I have learned that Kirt Thornton does the Lexicor version of

Coherence, which is different than Comodulation a la Sterman, which

is different from your garden variety Coherence function on

Bioexplorer. I don't know which is better, and nobody knows yet

which is the " best " way to train when it comes to coherence.

So would it not make sense to try one of these connectivity measures

from left frontal to right back and see if it works?

Kirt Thornton told me that he has some limited evidence of

generalization down when it comes to coherence training. Meaning

that he will train what he calls Beta2 (32-64 Hz), and will see the

other coherence measures normalize. He only trains low coherence

up. Jon told me he does a qEEG, and just trains the most

abnormal measure - too high and he trains it down - too low and he

trains it up, Delta, Theta, Alpha, doesn't matter. Joe Horvat told

me he never trains Delta or Theta coherence up. It seems to me that

all the training we do is a kind of coherence training, we just don't

call it that.

Well , you may just have to be a Vanguard.

Kirk