Guest guest Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Thanks Ole. I have no insulation right now because I emptied attic out to do work up there so I do need to do something even though there are no mold issues now. Thanks again though. > > Be careful about the building physics if you live in a climate with cold winters like ours (Norway). > > I have seen too many old attics that worked " good enough " for many years being destroyed by condensation in only 2-3 winters because of improper installation of blown in insulation that stopped all natural ventilation. (see attached picture as an typical example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Barb If the attic is emptied out you might do what we did to our house. We had about 2 inches of urethane foam sprayed over the top of the ceiling, in the attic, and then had spray-in-place cellulose added up to R50. Now there are no air leaks from down here to up there or from up there to down here; transfer of pollutants should be close to zero. The heating bills sure plummeted and it was much cooler in the summer. Jim Re: SV: attic insulation Thanks Ole. I have no insulation right now because I emptied attic out to do work up there so I do need to do something even though there are no mold issues now. Thanks again though.>> Be careful about the building physics if you live in a climate with cold winters like ours (Norway).> > I have seen too many old attics that worked "good enough" for many years being destroyed by condensation in only 2-3 winters because of improper installation of blown in insulation that stopped all natural ventilation. (see attached picture as an typical example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Close cell or open cell? I think you told me once but I can't remember. > > Barb > If the attic is emptied out you might do what we did to our house. We had about 2 inches of urethane foam sprayed over the top of the ceiling, in the attic, and then had spray-in-place cellulose added up to R50. Now there are no air leaks from down here to up there or from up there to down here; transfer of pollutants should be close to zero. > > The heating bills sure plummeted and it was much cooler in the summer. > Jim > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Is spray in place cellulose, the same as blown in cellulose? Is the 2 inches of urethane spray the kind that kind that hardens after it sets up? > > Barb > If the attic is emptied out you might do what we did to our house. We had about 2 inches of urethane foam sprayed over the top of the ceiling, in the attic, and then had spray-in-place cellulose added up to R50. Now there are no air leaks from down here to up there or from up there to down here; transfer of pollutants should be close to zero. > > The heating bills sure plummeted and it was much cooler in the summer. > Jim > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Or, if you are interested in doing some of the work yourself to save some money, buy cans of Dap expanding foam sealant. Spray along all seams in the attic where the ceiling and/or wall material butts up against the wall framing, and spray around all penetrations for plumbing and electrical. Then add the sprayed in cellulose (either d-i-y or contracted). As with any other weatherization upgrade, however, consider how reducing the air leakage will affect the rest of the home. Air has to come in from somewhere to replace air that is drawn out from combustion appliances, exhaust fans, clothes dryer, etc. Curtis From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Jim H. White SSC Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 6:01 PM To: iequality Subject: Re: SV: attic insulation Barb If the attic is emptied out you might do what we did to our house. We had about 2 inches of urethane foam sprayed over the top of the ceiling, in the attic, and then had spray-in-place cellulose added up to R50. Now there are no air leaks from down here to up there or from up there to down here; transfer of pollutants should be close to zero. The heating bills sure plummeted and it was much cooler in the summer. Jim Re: SV: attic insulation Thanks Ole. I have no insulation right now because I emptied attic out to do work up there so I do need to do something even though there are no mold issues now. Thanks again though. > > Be careful about the building physics if you live in a climate with cold winters like ours (Norway). > > I have seen too many old attics that worked " good enough " for many years being destroyed by condensation in only 2-3 winters because of improper installation of blown in insulation that stopped all natural ventilation. (see attached picture as an typical example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Barb There are many words for cellulose insulation that comes in bags and is normally sprayed into place; yes they are the same. Urethane foam comes in many kinds but all firm up as the chemical reaction goes to completion; it you use the airtight kind it will even allow you to walk (carefully) on it. There is a lower density urethane foam that has a much higher rate of diffusion and is much more easily crushed. It is popular in walls in areas with some hot and muggy weather as, perhaps, it would allow slow diffusion of moisture through to the other side; I do no believe in it but many do. It also does not provide as much R value per inch. We used the better R value, heavier and stiffer kind in our house, hoping to get a long-lasting air barrier. Jim Re: SV: attic insulation Is spray in place cellulose, the same as blown in cellulose? Is the 2 inches of urethane spray the kind that kind that hardens after it sets up?>> Barb> If the attic is emptied out you might do what we did to our house. We had about 2 inches of urethane foam sprayed over the top of the ceiling, in the attic, and then had spray-in-place cellulose added up to R50. Now there are no air leaks from down here to up there or from up there to down here; transfer of pollutants should be close to zero. > > The heating bills sure plummeted and it was much cooler in the summer.> Jim> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Barb I prefer the stiffer, closed cell. Jim Re: SV: attic insulation Close cell or open cell? I think you told me once but I can't remember. >> Barb> If the attic is emptied out you might do what we did to our house. We had about 2 inches of urethane foam sprayed over the top of the ceiling, in the attic, and then had spray-in-place cellulose added up to R50. Now there are no air leaks from down here to up there or from up there to down here; transfer of pollutants should be close to zero. > > The heating bills sure plummeted and it was much cooler in the summer.> Jim> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yes Curtis, I don't know how to do manage getting in fresh air, but will get advice. House was built in 1930's so it is fairly air leaky sideways, lots of old windows. They have storm windows on them but they are not air tight. I don't know how you all do this, so much to know about indoor air, big subject! Tiring me out really but I have to do it bec if I don't, I feel it directly. I've already paid the price of not paying attention so now it's got my attention, big time! > > As with any other weatherization upgrade, however, consider how reducing the air leakage will affect the rest of the home. Air has to come in from somewhere to replace air that is drawn out from combustion appliances, exhaust fans, clothes dryer, etc. > > Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 I'd love to do it myself. I like doing handy work but now a foot injury that didn't heal properly means I will have to have someone else do it. Frustrating bec if I think if you do things yourself, you care more and don't skip the details. At least I don't. > >if you are interested in doing some of the work yourself to save some money, buy cans of Dap expanding foam sealant. Spray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Your attic is well insulated that's for sure. What if your roof sprang a leak though. Right now if my roof springs a leak, a water spot appears on the ceiling in one of the rooms. Is there anyway to know when the roof needs repair without this type of telltale sign on the ceiling? > > Barb > If the attic is emptied out you might do what we did to our house. We had about 2 inches of urethane foam sprayed over the top of the ceiling, in the attic, and then had spray-in-place cellulose added up to R50. Now there are no air leaks from down here to up there or from up there to down here; transfer of pollutants should be close to zero. > > The heating bills sure plummeted and it was much cooler in the summer. > Jim > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Barb R50 is the top of the recommendation range for our climate area. If the roof springs a leak it would be hard to see in for most of the attic because it is an old farm house with many connected attic areas. I can see much of the old house attic from the hatch and the insulation would pack somewhat and change color. Back when I thought that I would get a lot of consulting work we put a 50 year metal roof onto a "Ice shield" type self-sealing roofing sheet so that part should be OK. The technology now exists to build roofs that last for many decades; you do need qualified roofers, however, that have been certified by the company that supplies the materials. Although much cheaper in the long run, even without the cost of fixing leakage damage, they are expensive up front. Jim Re: SV: attic insulation Your attic is well insulated that's for sure. What if your roof sprang a leak though. Right now if my roof springs a leak, a water spot appears on the ceiling in one of the rooms. Is there anyway to know when the roof needs repair without this type of telltale sign on the ceiling?>> Barb> If the attic is emptied out you might do what we did to our house. We had about 2 inches of urethane foam sprayed over the top of the ceiling, in the attic, and then had spray-in-place cellulose added up to R50. Now there are no air leaks from down here to up there or from up there to down here; transfer of pollutants should be close to zero. > > The heating bills sure plummeted and it was much cooler in the summer.> Jim> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 I've seen some beautiful metal roofs. You guys sound as snug as a bug in a rug! Good going! > > Barb > R50 is the top of the recommendation range for our climate area. > > If the roof springs a leak it would be hard to see in for most of the attic because it is an old farm house with many connected attic areas. I can see much of the old house attic from the hatch and the insulation would pack somewhat and change color. > > Back when I thought that I would get a lot of consulting work we put a 50 year metal roof onto a " Ice shield " type self-sealing roofing sheet so that part should be OK. The technology now exists to build roofs that last for many decades; you do need qualified roofers, however, that have been certified by the company that supplies the materials. Although much cheaper in the long run, even without the cost of fixing leakage damage, they are expensive up front. > Jim > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I have an old roof and will not be getting a metal one. I have it inspected every year but it is about 20 years old. I looked at metal roof a few years but will be moving out of area in a few so trying to get by with what I have. Due to fear of not seeing a leak I probably need to have it so that a leak would come through on ceiling..as much as I hate that way to detect a leak! Now someone has said that they found their home inhabitable after installing cellulose insulation and I am worried about 1k feet of boric acid and also newspaper print ink overhead. They didn't have their house air sealed though like I am but still has worried me. Air sealers said that every place air can move will be sealed but thinking perhaps the Mansfield no formaldehyde fiberglass might be safer even though I think fiberglass is far from safe! Anyone have any suggestions? Work is schedule in a week but they can reschedule me. Everything else is planned. They gave me a cost of 1350.00 to foam the entire floor w 1 inch of closed cell. As expensive as that is that wouldn't keep me from doing it as my health is worth it. I'm just worried if a leak developed it would go unnoticed. If I had a metal roof I wouldn't worry. The ones they make now are like helmets or armour. If I was moving in to some place that that I could see myself stay for a long time, I would install a new metal roofs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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