RE: Gas leak in house DOES exist after all

December 19, 2011

Just last week I attended a Pacific Gas and Electric gas appliance seminar. I specifically asked on several occasions what PG & E'S policy regarding gas leakage at appliance control valves, especially in regards to the ANSI Z21.21 standards. Their policy is that there should be ZERO gas leakage.

I have spent several hours on the net looking for some information regarding the ANSI Z21 Appliance standards but the information is very limited and ANSI wants some $800.00 for a copy of their standards. Does anyone have a source that discusses this important standard. If I can find some good information I will write an article that could be published in the CREIA magazine and maybe generate some discussion regarding a topic that is relatively unknown.

It is interesting to note that gas odorizers were added to natural gas as a result of a gas explosion at a Texas school back in 1937 where over 100 children and teachers were killed. The odorizer is added solely for fire prevention which no doubt has saved many thousands of lives, but it has been repeated over and over that natural gas is non toxic without referencing any research. But the odorizer is toxic...

Another issue that has been itching my thought process for some time is that in the old days there was always a vent to exhaust the old fashioned wood/coal cooking stoves in the kitchens. With the advent of modern gas stoves the vents have been abandoned. In effect, gas stoves are ventless appliances much the same as decorative fireplaces and heaters which have very specific safety requirements that are missing on the stoves. (Oxygen Detection System)

It may be this is an important subject that has been mostly overlooked, or lobbied out by the industry. Any thoughts or discussion would be appreciated.

Brad Deal

Gas leak in house DOES exist after all

Hi, everyone -

Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all along

about a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gas

from the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gas

meter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurement

dials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. I

called the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurement

meters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that mean

there's a leak and was told yes.

Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mine

and I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insisted

there was no leak based upon their inspections and also insisted

natural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.

Carol

December 19, 2011

Brad -

As far as I know, California is the only state that requires venting

of stoves. You are right-- my stove has no vent at all, just some

ridiculous wimpy fan under the microwave located above the stove, so

whatever gas leakage may be in this house basically remains in this

house. Tomorrow I am calling the gas company to come to the house and

find that gas leak. I will not let them turn the gas on permanently

until it is found.

I discovered an interesting article online titled:

" Medical-Environmental Report: A review of the potential health

effects of the proposed Sable Gas Pipeline Project from the

perspective of environmentally induced illness/chemical sensitivity,

asthma and allergy. "

Here's the link to this 31-page study:

http://reocities.com/RainForest/6847/report1.html

Carol

>

> Just last week I attended a Pacific Gas and Electric gas appliance seminar.

> I specifically asked on several occasions what PG & E'S policy regarding gas

> leakage at appliance control valves, especially in regards to the ANSI

> Z21.21 standards. Their policy is that there should be ZERO gas leakage.

>

> I have spent several hours on the net looking for some information regarding

> the ANSI Z21 Appliance standards but the information is very limited and

> ANSI wants some $800.00 for a copy of their standards. Does anyone have a

> source that discusses this important standard. If I can find some good

> information I will write an article that could be published in the CREIA

> magazine and maybe generate some discussion regarding a topic that is

> relatively unknown.

>

> It is interesting to note that gas odorizers were added to natural gas as a

> result of a gas explosion at a Texas school back in 1937 where over 100

> children and teachers were killed. The odorizer is added solely for fire

> prevention which no doubt has saved many thousands of lives, but it has been

> repeated over and over that natural gas is non toxic without referencing any

> research. But the odorizer is toxic...

>

> Another issue that has been itching my thought process for some time is that

> in the old days there was always a vent to exhaust the old fashioned

> wood/coal cooking stoves in the kitchens. With the advent of modern gas

> stoves the vents have been abandoned. In effect, gas stoves are ventless

> appliances much the same as decorative fireplaces and heaters which have

> very specific safety requirements that are missing on the stoves. (Oxygen

> Detection System)

>

> It may be this is an important subject that has been mostly overlooked, or

> lobbied out by the industry. Any thoughts or discussion would be

> appreciated.

>

> Brad Deal

>

> Gas leak in house DOES exist after all

>

> Hi, everyone -

>

> Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all along

> about a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gas

> from the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gas

> meter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurement

> dials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. I

> called the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurement

> meters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that mean

> there's a leak and was told yes.

>

> Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mine

> and I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insisted

> there was no leak based upon their inspections and also insisted

> natural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.

>

> Carol

>

December 19, 2011

Carol: What does “shut off the gas from the outside to the house” mean? The gas supply pipe usually has a master valve that shuts off the gas before it reaches the meter. If you shut off this valve, then no gas reached the meter, and it could not move without any gas flowing through it.If you shut off another master valve downstream from the meter and the meter moved, this only demonstrated a gas leak in the pipe before it reached your house.Did you shut off the gas supply individually to each appliance one-by-one? You have not proved that a gas leak exists in your house if you shut the gas off “outside to the house”. Norm Gauss From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Carol Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 4:09 PMTo: iequality Subject: Gas leak in house DOES exist after all Hi, everyone -Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all alongabout a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gasfrom the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gasmeter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurementdials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. Icalled the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurementmeters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that meanthere's a leak and was told yes.Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mineand I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insistedthere was no leak based upon their inspections and also insistednatural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.Carol

December 19, 2011

Since a blue gas flame emits mainly water vapor and carbon dioxide, the need for exhaust ventilation is very minimal.Â This is from the NaturalGas.org website:â€œComposed primarily of methane, the main products of the combustion of natural gas are carbon dioxide and water vapor, the same compounds we exhale when we breathe.â€Is this just a sales pitch, or is there any truth in this statement? Norm Gauss From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of homeinspect2020@...Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 8:59 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Gas leak in house DOES exist after all Just last week I attended a Pacific Gas and Electric gas appliance seminar. I specifically asked on several occasions what PG & E'S policy regarding gas leakage at appliance control valves, especially in regards to the ANSI Z21.21 standards. Their policy is that there should be ZERO gas leakage. I have spent several hours on the net looking for some information regarding the ANSI Z21 Appliance standards but the information is very limited and ANSI wants some $800.00 for a copy of their standards. Does anyone have a source that discusses this important standard. If I can find some good information I will write an article that could be published in the CREIA magazine and maybe generate some discussion regarding a topic that is relatively unknown. It is interesting to note that gas odorizers were added to natural gas as a result of a gas explosion at a Texas school back in 1937 where over 100 children and teachers were killed. The odorizer is added solely for fire prevention which no doubt has saved many thousands of lives, but it has been repeated over and over that natural gas is non toxic without referencing any research. But the odorizer is toxic... Another issue that has been itching my thought process for some time is that in the old days there was always a vent to exhaust the old fashioned wood/coal cooking stoves in the kitchens. With the advent of modern gas stoves the vents have been abandoned. In effect, gas stoves are ventless appliances much the same as decorative fireplaces and heaters which have very specific safety requirements that are missing on the stoves. (Oxygen Detection System) It may be this is an important subject that has been mostly overlooked, or lobbied out by the industry. Any thoughts or discussion would be appreciated. Brad Deal Gas leak in house DOES exist after all Hi, everyone -Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all alongabout a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gasfrom the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gasmeter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurementdials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. Icalled the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurementmeters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that meanthere's a leak and was told yes.Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mineand I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insistedthere was no leak based upon their inspections and also insistednatural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.Carol

December 20, 2011

ï»¿

Norm

Studies of cooking appliances show that the exhaust stream from a burner can easily be well above 50 PPM CO once a cold pot is put above the flame and the combustion process does not go to completion. When there is no pot in place the same burner may produce no measurable CO. Some burners with large pots and cold water have produced over 1000 ppm CO in the stream; the room levels would be, of course, much, much lower. At this point they also produce some PAH and these PAH are either known or suspected carcinogens.

In ovens it is normal to get over 400 PPM CO from the burner until the oven is hot; it goes back up once a cool load is put into the oven.

Some very modern appliances can do much better than the above, but they are not the cheapest ones that we normally buy. When we buy the cheapest we get what we deserve!

Jim H. White SSC

Gas leak in house DOES exist after all

Hi, everyone -Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all alongabout a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gasfrom the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gasmeter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurementdials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. Icalled the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurementmeters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that meanthere's a leak and was told yes.Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mineand I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insistedthere was no leak based upon their inspections and also insistednatural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.Carol

December 20, 2011

H. Greiner, Ph.D., P.E. (now retired from Iowa State University) is a notable expert on the subject of carbon monoxide. From his paperThe Silent Killer: Carbon Monoxide: â€œContrary to popular belief, carbon monoxide can, and often is, produced from a blue burning flame.â€ Some information that I still find very interesting: Burning one cubic foot of natural gas (methane) produces about two cubic feet of water vapor. That iswhy excessive condensation in a home may well be an indicator of a carbon monoxide problem. While the main products of combustion of natural gas are carbon dioxide and water vapor, there certainly can be other products (such as carbon monoxide andnitrogen oxides) that may be present in sufficient concentration to pose a health concern. As different factors make the combustion less efficient, the potential for products other than carbon dioxide and water increases. Curtis Redington From: iequality [mailto:iequality ]On Behalf Of Norman GaussSent: Monday, December 19, 2011 9:46 PMTo: iequality Subject: RE: Gas leak in house DOES exist after all Since a blue gas flame emits mainly water vapor and carbon dioxide, the need for exhaust ventilation is very minimal. This is from the NaturalGas.org website:â€œComposed primarily of methane, the main products of thecombustion of natural gas are carbon dioxide and water vapor, the same compounds we exhale when we breathe.â€Is this just a sales pitch, or is there any truth in this statement? Norm Gauss From: iequality [mailto:iequality ]On Behalf Of homeinspect2020@...Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 8:59 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Gas leak in house DOES exist after all Just last week I attended a Pacific Gas and Electric gas appliance seminar. I specifically asked on several occasions what PG & E'S policyregarding gas leakage at appliance control valves, especially in regards to the ANSI Z21.21 standards. Their policy is that there should be ZERO gas leakage. I have spent several hours on the net looking for some information regarding the ANSI Z21 Appliance standards but the information is verylimited and ANSI wants some $800.00 for a copy of their standards. Does anyone have a source that discusses this important standard. If I can find some good information I will write an article that could be published in the CREIA magazine and maybe generatesome discussion regarding a topic that is relatively unknown. It is interesting to note that gas odorizers were added to natural gas as a result of a gas explosion at a Texas school back in 1937 whereover 100 children and teachers were killed. The odorizer is added solely for fire prevention which no doubt has saved many thousands of lives, but it has been repeated over and over that natural gas is non toxic without referencing any research. But theodorizer is toxic... Another issue that has been itching my thought process for some time is that in the old days there was always a vent to exhaust the oldfashioned wood/coal cooking stoves in the kitchens. With the advent of modern gas stoves the vents have been abandoned. In effect, gas stoves are ventless appliances much the same as decorative fireplaces and heaters which have very specific safety requirementsthat are missing on the stoves. (Oxygen Detection System) It may be this is an important subject that has been mostly overlooked, or lobbied out by the industry. Any thoughts or discussion wouldbe appreciated. Brad Deal Gas leak in house DOES exist after all Hi, everyone -Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all alongabout a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gasfrom the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gasmeter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurementdials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. Icalled the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurementmeters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that meanthere's a leak and was told yes.Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mineand I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insistedthere was no leak based upon their inspections and also insistednatural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.Carol

December 20, 2011

Brad, What is your basis for the statement that â€œthe odorizer is toxicâ€? On this List, we have previously discussed health complaints that appear to be relatedto natural gas leaks, but I donâ€™t think we ever reached any consensus as to whether it was the methane or the mercaptan that was the most likely suspect. I know from my own experience Iâ€™ve seen health complaints when there was a gas leak, but no mercaptanodor (mercaptan reduced or eliminated). Curtis Redington From: iequality [mailto:iequality ]On Behalf Of homeinspect2020@...Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 10:59 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Gas leak in house DOES exist after all Just last week I attended a Pacific Gas and Electric gas appliance seminar. I specifically asked on several occasions what PG & E'S policy regarding gas leakageat appliance control valves, especially in regards to the ANSI Z21.21 standards. Their policy is that there should be ZERO gas leakage. I have spent several hours on the net looking for some information regarding the ANSI Z21 Appliance standards but the information is very limited and ANSI wantssome $800.00 for a copy of their standards. Does anyone have a source that discusses this important standard. If I can find some good information I will write an article that could be published in the CREIA magazine and maybe generate some discussion regardinga topic that is relatively unknown. It is interesting to note that gas odorizers were added to natural gas as a result of a gas explosion at a Texas school back in 1937 where over 100 children andteachers were killed. The odorizer is added solely for fire prevention which no doubt has saved many thousands of lives, but it has been repeated over and over that natural gas is non toxic without referencing any research. But the odorizer is toxic... Another issue that has been itching my thought process for some time is that in the old days there was always a vent to exhaust the old fashioned wood/coal cookingstoves in the kitchens. With the advent of modern gas stoves the vents have been abandoned. In effect, gas stoves are ventless appliances much the same as decorative fireplaces and heaters which have very specific safety requirements that are missing on thestoves. (Oxygen Detection System) It may be this is an important subject that has been mostly overlooked, or lobbied out by the industry. Any thoughts or discussion would be appreciated. Brad Deal Gas leak in house DOES exist after all Hi, everyone -Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all alongabout a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gasfrom the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gasmeter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurementdials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. Icalled the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurementmeters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that meanthere's a leak and was told yes.Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mineand I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insistedthere was no leak based upon their inspections and also insistednatural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.Carol

December 20, 2011

Another excerpt from a paper written by H. Greiner. Iowa State University of Science and Technology,Carbon Monoxide Poisoning: Checking for Complete Combustion: â€œUnfortunately, visual inspection is NOT sufficient to verify proper combustion. Burners producing EXTREMELY high concentrations of carbon monoxide can burn blue. Conversely, burners producinglittle carbon monoxide can burn yellow.â€ Curtis From: iequality [mailto:iequality ]On Behalf Of Norman GaussSent: Monday, December 19, 2011 9:46 PMTo: iequality Subject: RE: Gas leak in house DOES exist after all Since a blue gas flame emits mainly water vapor and carbon dioxide, the need for exhaust ventilation is very minimal. This is from the NaturalGas.org website:â€œComposed primarily of methane, the main products of thecombustion of natural gas are carbon dioxide and water vapor, the same compounds we exhale when we breathe.â€Is this just a sales pitch, or is there any truth in this statement? Norm Gauss From: iequality [mailto:iequality ]On Behalf Of homeinspect2020@...Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 8:59 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Gas leak in house DOES exist after all Just last week I attended a Pacific Gas and Electric gas appliance seminar. I specifically asked on several occasions what PG & E'S policyregarding gas leakage at appliance control valves, especially in regards to the ANSI Z21.21 standards. Their policy is that there should be ZERO gas leakage. I have spent several hours on the net looking for some information regarding the ANSI Z21 Appliance standards but the information is verylimited and ANSI wants some $800.00 for a copy of their standards. Does anyone have a source that discusses this important standard. If I can find some good information I will write an article that could be published in the CREIA magazine and maybe generatesome discussion regarding a topic that is relatively unknown. It is interesting to note that gas odorizers were added to natural gas as a result of a gas explosion at a Texas school back in 1937 whereover 100 children and teachers were killed. The odorizer is added solely for fire prevention which no doubt has saved many thousands of lives, but it has been repeated over and over that natural gas is non toxic without referencing any research. But theodorizer is toxic... Another issue that has been itching my thought process for some time is that in the old days there was always a vent to exhaust the oldfashioned wood/coal cooking stoves in the kitchens. With the advent of modern gas stoves the vents have been abandoned. In effect, gas stoves are ventless appliances much the same as decorative fireplaces and heaters which have very specific safety requirementsthat are missing on the stoves. (Oxygen Detection System) It may be this is an important subject that has been mostly overlooked, or lobbied out by the industry. Any thoughts or discussion wouldbe appreciated. Brad Deal Gas leak in house DOES exist after all Hi, everyone -Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all alongabout a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gasfrom the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gasmeter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurementdials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. Icalled the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurementmeters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that meanthere's a leak and was told yes.Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mineand I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insistedthere was no leak based upon their inspections and also insistednatural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.Carol

December 20, 2011

Norm -

Are you familiar with MCS? There is no definitive test to prove

someone suffers from this illness. Diagnosis is made from taking a

patient's history and lisltening to their experiences with exposures

and resulting symptoms. I know how I felt WITH the gas stove working,

how I felt when the gas co. just shut the line to the stove, and how I

feel now that I have turned off the gas to the house and I am

convinced I was getting sick from gas. Even the gas company told me

that if the dials moved after I shut off the gas line to my house (the

line that is alongside the house with the meter on it) that means

there is a leak somewhere. In any event, I will never use a gas stove

again. For those of us who are chemically sensitive, gas stoves are a

danger.

I don't care what the gas company has to say about what is safe,

nontoxic, etc. etc. The manufacturers of Febreeze, Lysol and other

air freshener products will also say their products are safe and

nontoxic yet I as well as many others suffering with MCS will tell you

how sick we become when exposed to these products in the environment,

even for a minute or less. We have an entirely different

detoxification system than normal people and what is the " norm " for

one person's chemical tolerance is not the norm for us. Before I

became chemically sensitive I had no problem with gas stoves,

Febreeze, Lysol or any other irritant.

Carol

> Carol:

>

> What does " shut off the gas from the outside to the house " mean?

>

> The gas supply pipe usually has a master valve that shuts off the gas before

> it reaches the meter. If you shut off this valve, then no gas reached the

> meter, and it could not move without any gas flowing through it.

>

> If you shut off another master valve downstream from the meter and the meter

> moved, this only demonstrated a gas leak in the pipe before it reached your

> house.

>

> Did you shut off the gas supply individually to each appliance one-by-one?

> You have not proved that a gas leak exists in your house if you shut the gas

> off " outside to the house " .

>

> Norm Gauss

>

> From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf

> Of Carol

> Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 4:09 PM

> To: iequality

> Subject: Gas leak in house DOES exist after all

>

> Hi, everyone -

>

> Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all along

> about a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gas

> from the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gas

> meter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurement

> dials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. I

> called the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurement

> meters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that mean

> there's a leak and was told yes.

>

> Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mine

> and I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insisted

> there was no leak based upon their inspections and also insisted

> natural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.

>

> Carol

>

December 20, 2011

Carol,

This paper advocates the discontinuation of using natural gas inside buildings without offering any viable replacement. Also, it does not differentiate between ventless gas appliances and vented gas appliances. There is a world of difference between a gas stove that exhausting combustion by products into the living space, and an engineered gas appliance that is venting to the exterior. A properly installed vented gas appliance should not spill or backdraft any significant combustion by products into the living space.

While the paper appears to be technically correct it also appears to be biased against natural gas because of is potential to cause problems. The same issues could be raised about any fuel source if you disregard its benefits.

This falls right into the current discussions regarding vaccine scares etc.

Society reaches a point of diminishing returns. As long as the majority of the people are doing ok, then the minority do not seem to matter. People with chemical sensitivities are left to fend for their selves. Good information is necessary to convince the majority that a change is necessary, fear mongering will only serve to delay meaningful change. This is a very difficult circumstance.

As to your gas leak. There should be a valve in the gas line between the gas meter and the street. If this valve is turned off then no gas should reach the meter and it should not register any change. You really need a good independent inspector to review the gas system, and the house in general. Ockham's razor would suggest that your problem is not as complicated as you suspect, it is probably something that can be reasonably discovered if you get help from somebody who does not have preconceived notions and willing to advocate your cause.

I recommend that you contact the local home inspection association like ASHI or CREIA and talk to the president of the local chapter. Ask him for the contact information for the men who have done inspections for 10 or 15 years. Experienced men like this will have detailed work histories on their web sites. Pick the one who best meets your needs and tell him that you are sick and need help. Most times these guys will rise to the occasion with an opportunity to put their experience into practice. You may even get several men to come out if you can convince them your problem could be a case study. Home Inspectors are generally looked down upon as entry level "jokes." And this is true many times, but their are a handful of serious inspectors who have a truly astounding knowledge of homes that would rival anybody on this board. Hopefully this guy could identify the problem, or at least recommend areas of further investigation that could lead to resolution of your problems.

One last thought, Gas lines are very susceptible to temperature changes when closed. If there is a significant temperature change between the time you shut off the gas and the time you took the picture, it could have caused the meter to change or even run backwards...Everything is not as simple as it seems...

I hope this helps

Merry Christmas all!

Brad Deal

Gas leak in house DOES exist after all

>

> Hi, everyone -

>

> Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all along

> about a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gas

> from the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gas

> meter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurement

> dials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. I

> called the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurement

> meters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that mean

> there's a leak and was told yes.

>

> Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mine

> and I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insisted

> there was no leak based upon their inspections and also insisted

> natural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.

>

> Carol

>

December 20, 2011

Brad, Here are a couples sources of information that you may find useful: H. Greiner, Iowa State Univ. of Science and Technology, AEN-205 Carbon Monoxide Poisoning: Gas-fired kitchen ranges. Tsongas, Home Energy, Sept/Oct 1995, Carbon Monoxide from Ovens: A Serious IAQ Problem Note that most studies have focused on carbon monoxide with secondary emphasis on related combustion by-products. There has apparently been little researchon natural gas and/or mercaptan odorant before combustion. The March 1997 report that Carol mentioned (and related articles from the Allergy & Environmental Health Association â€“ Nova Scotia) is about all I have been able to find other than plentyof anecdotal reports and news articles. There is an August 14, 2002 legal judgment from the Court of Appeal, Second Circuit, State of Louisiana: Bruce Fuhrmann, et. al. vs. AllState Insurance Co.,et. al. that I found interesting. The suit (which was dismissed) centered on a claim ofcarbon monoxide poisoning when the facts presented were primarily related to anatural gas leak. Curtis From: iequality [mailto:iequality ]On Behalf Of homeinspect2020@...Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 10:59 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Gas leak in house DOES exist after all Just last week I attended a Pacific Gas and Electric gas appliance seminar. I specifically asked on several occasions what PG & E'S policy regarding gas leakageat appliance control valves, especially in regards to the ANSI Z21.21 standards. Their policy is that there should be ZERO gas leakage. I have spent several hours on the net looking for some information regarding the ANSI Z21 Appliance standards but the information is very limited and ANSI wantssome $800.00 for a copy of their standards. Does anyone have a source that discusses this important standard. If I can find some good information I will write an article that could be published in the CREIA magazine and maybe generate some discussion regardinga topic that is relatively unknown. It is interesting to note that gas odorizers were added to natural gas as a result of a gas explosion at a Texas school back in 1937 where over 100 children andteachers were killed. The odorizer is added solely for fire prevention which no doubt has saved many thousands of lives, but it has been repeated over and over that natural gas is non toxic without referencing any research. But the odorizer is toxic... Another issue that has been itching my thought process for some time is that in the old days there was always a vent to exhaust the old fashioned wood/coal cookingstoves in the kitchens. With the advent of modern gas stoves the vents have been abandoned. In effect, gas stoves are ventless appliances much the same as decorative fireplaces and heaters which have very specific safety requirements that are missing on thestoves. (Oxygen Detection System) It may be this is an important subject that has been mostly overlooked, or lobbied out by the industry. Any thoughts or discussion would be appreciated. Brad Deal Gas leak in house DOES exist after all Hi, everyone -Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all alongabout a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gasfrom the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gasmeter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurementdials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. Icalled the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurementmeters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that meanthere's a leak and was told yes.Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mineand I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insistedthere was no leak based upon their inspections and also insistednatural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.Carol

December 20, 2011

There is health impact information under the topic of 'combustible gasses' which

should apply to natural gas. Regarding methane, my reading found that 'there

are no studies done on the affects of long term, low dose exposure to natural

gas " . They certainly have have had the opportunity, if not the desire.

> > It may be this is an important subject that has been mostly overlooked, or

> > lobbied out by the industry. Any thoughts or discussion would be

> > appreciated.

> >

> > Brad Deal

> >

>

December 20, 2011

Carol,When a valve is closed (at the street level), higher pressure will remain in the pipe

leading up to the regulator, lower pressure to the meter and throughout the remaining pipe that services the gas appliances. If there is a leak anywhere within this system, the pressure (high or low) will drop. Have you had a leak (pressure) test conducted on your system?Locating the leak may take some time. another solution is Isolation. Isolation is the low cost solution. Each piece of inline equipment must be isolated and tested separately, i.e. valves, regulator, pipe fittings, pipe, and finally any appliance(s). Also, if meters are being relied upon, not all leaks are detectable with a meter. I have found my nose was better than any meter.

Based upon my experience, if the cubic meter usage clocks have moved " a lot " as you state, someone would smell gas odors outside or eventually outside as air exchange at various degrees will result over time. During normal usage, the meters do not normally move that much. So what exactly does " a lot " mean? Please explain further.

E-Bob

Hi, everyone -

Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all along

about a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gas

from the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gas

meter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurement

dials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. I

called the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurement

meters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that mean

there's a leak and was told yes.

Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mine

and I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insisted

there was no leak based upon their inspections and also insisted

natural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.

Carol

-- Respectfully submitted,Bob Hawley, CEICC, CIEC, CMC, CMCA, CSDS, CMRS, CETC, CSL (MA), ADI-II-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Environmental AirTechsIAQ Consulting/Investigations Dept. Southwick Massachusetts 01077email: Bob@...

December 20, 2011

The gas co. rep just left the house. He suggested capping the gas

line from the wall to the stove since I complained of always feeling

dizzy anywhere near the stove. He totally removed the gas line from

the stove to the wall and then capped that part of the line coming out

of the wall. I hope that makes a difference. I was feeling pretty

good since I turned off the gas to the house last Friday, though. The

gas co. rep turned on the gas today and lit the pilot light in the hot

water heater. He said that if I still have problems I should contact

a plumber to come and perform a pressure test. I think I'd rather

just break the lease and move out. I will report in a few days to let

you know if the capping of the gas line from the wall helps.

I've learned a great deal from all of you who responded to my

situation. Thanks so much.

Carol

> Brad,

>

> Here are a couples sources of information that you may find useful:

> H. Greiner, Iowa State Univ. of Science and Technology, AEN-205

> Carbon Monoxide Poisoning: Gas-fired kitchen ranges.

> Tsongas, Home Energy, Sept/Oct 1995, Carbon Monoxide from Ovens: A

> Serious IAQ Problem

>

> Note that most studies have focused on carbon monoxide with secondary

> emphasis on related combustion by-products. There has apparently been little

> research on natural gas and/or mercaptan odorant before combustion. The

> March 1997 report that Carol mentioned (and related articles from the

> Allergy & Environmental Health Association – Nova Scotia) is about all I

> have been able to find other than plenty of anecdotal reports and news

> articles.

>

> There is an August 14, 2002 legal judgment from the Court of Appeal, Second

> Circuit, State of Louisiana: Bruce Fuhrmann, et. al. vs. AllState Insurance

> Co., et. al. that I found interesting. The suit (which was dismissed)

> centered on a claim of carbon monoxide poisoning when the facts presented

> were primarily related to a natural gas leak.

>

> Curtis

>

> From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf

> Of homeinspect2020@...

> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 10:59 AM

> To: iequality

> Subject: Re: Gas leak in house DOES exist after all

>

> Just last week I attended a Pacific Gas and Electric gas appliance seminar.

> I specifically asked on several occasions what PG & E'S policy regarding gas

> leakage at appliance control valves, especially in regards to the ANSI

> Z21.21 standards. Their policy is that there should be ZERO gas leakage.

>

> I have spent several hours on the net looking for some information regarding

> the ANSI Z21 Appliance standards but the information is very limited and

> ANSI wants some $800.00 for a copy of their standards. Does anyone have a

> source that discusses this important standard. If I can find some good

> information I will write an article that could be published in the CREIA

> magazine and maybe generate some discussion regarding a topic that is

> relatively unknown.

>

> It is interesting to note that gas odorizers were added to natural gas as a

> result of a gas explosion at a Texas school back in 1937 where over 100

> children and teachers were killed. The odorizer is added solely for fire

> prevention which no doubt has saved many thousands of lives, but it has been

> repeated over and over that natural gas is non toxic without referencing any

> research. But the odorizer is toxic...

>

> Another issue that has been itching my thought process for some time is that

> in the old days there was always a vent to exhaust the old fashioned

> wood/coal cooking stoves in the kitchens. With the advent of modern gas

> stoves the vents have been abandoned. In effect, gas stoves are ventless

> appliances much the same as decorative fireplaces and heaters which have

> very specific safety requirements that are missing on the stoves. (Oxygen

> Detection System)

>

> It may be this is an important subject that has been mostly overlooked, or

> lobbied out by the industry. Any thoughts or discussion would be

> appreciated.

>

> Brad Deal

>

> Gas leak in house DOES exist after all

>

> Hi, everyone -

>

> Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all along

> about a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gas

> from the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gas

> meter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurement

> dials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. I

> called the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurement

> meters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that mean

> there's a leak and was told yes.

>

> Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mine

> and I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insisted

> there was no leak based upon their inspections and also insisted

> natural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.

>

> Carol

>

December 20, 2011

On a related note, and I can't remember if it has already been discussed in this thread, carbon dioxide (CO2) levels as well as humidity levels increase dramatically with prolonged burning of natural gas indoors. I would think that the effects of elevated indoor CO2 on blood gas exchange rates and related acidosis factors would be more likely to cause negative health effects than exposure to methane gas (CH4), also presently recognized as merely being a simple asphyxiant. I think things aren't so simple.

I have seen people react to minute levels of low-odor threshold sulfur compounds from low tide and landfill odors in outdoor air - and similar reactions (esp. nausea and headache) to sewer gas odors. I think the sulfur compounds are more likely to cause symptoms than methane.

Steve Temes

Gas leak in house DOES exist after all

Hi, everyone -

Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all along

about a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gas

from the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gas

meter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurement

dials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. I

called the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurement

meters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that mean

there's a leak and was told yes.

Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mine

and I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insisted

there was no leak based upon their inspections and also insisted

natural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.

Carol

December 20, 2011

Carol: I suffer from MCS, though not as extreme as your symptoms indicate. I have had MCS for at least 40 years. Although natural gas is not a powerful toxicant for me, I react to perfumes, fragrances in cleaning products, paint, and many others. I also have strong food sensitivities.My point about the gas test is that if you have allowed the gas to flow into your house but all your gas appliances have their valves shut off, you can then check the gas meter. There may be a gas leak outside the house, which the meter may detect, but the easiest way to detect any gas leak within the house is to close the valves on all gas appliances. Another option is to have the gas company come out and do a pressure test on your gas line. With all appliances turned off, including the pilot lights, the gas pressure should hold constant after the main valve is turned off. If it falls, there is a gas leak.How close to the house is the gas meter? My understanding is that the Uniform Plumbing Code, which is the standard for most states, specifies that gas pipes must not be put underground beneath a house. This means that the pipes are in your walls or under the floor. You seem to focus on the gas stove in the kitchen. How do you feel near the furnace or water heater or clothes dryer?If you have a range hood, does running the fan help?My California home has a vent connected to the range hood fan over the stove. If I leave the fan off, most of the combustion gases enter the kitchen. If I turn on the fan, this improves the exhaust of combustion gases but leaves a considerable portion to escape into the kitchen.Norm Gauss From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf Of Carol Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 9:27 AMTo: iequality Subject: Re: Gas leak in house DOES exist after all Norm -Are you familiar with MCS? There is no definitive test to provesomeone suffers from this illness. Diagnosis is made from taking apatient's history and lisltening to their experiences with exposuresand resulting symptoms. I know how I felt WITH the gas stove working,how I felt when the gas co. just shut the line to the stove, and how Ifeel now that I have turned off the gas to the house and I amconvinced I was getting sick from gas. Even the gas company told methat if the dials moved after I shut off the gas line to my house (theline that is alongside the house with the meter on it) that meansthere is a leak somewhere. In any event, I will never use a gas stoveagain. For those of us who are chemically sensitive, gas stoves are adanger.I don't care what the gas company has to say about what is safe,nontoxic, etc. etc. The manufacturers of Febreeze, Lysol and otherair freshener products will also say their products are safe andnontoxic yet I as well as many others suffering with MCS will tell youhow sick we become when exposed to these products in the environment,even for a minute or less. We have an entirely differentdetoxification system than normal people and what is the " norm " forone person's chemical tolerance is not the norm for us. Before Ibecame chemically sensitive I had no problem with gas stoves,Febreeze, Lysol or any other irritant.Carol> Carol:>>>> What does " shut off the gas from the outside to the house " mean?>> The gas supply pipe usually has a master valve that shuts off the gas before> it reaches the meter. If you shut off this valve, then no gas reached the> meter, and it could not move without any gas flowing through it.>> If you shut off another master valve downstream from the meter and the meter> moved, this only demonstrated a gas leak in the pipe before it reached your> house.>> Did you shut off the gas supply individually to each appliance one-by-one?> You have not proved that a gas leak exists in your house if you shut the gas> off " outside to the house " .>>>> Norm Gauss>>>> From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf> Of Carol > Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 4:09 PM> To: iequality > Subject: Gas leak in house DOES exist after all>>>>>> Hi, everyone ->> Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all along> about a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gas> from the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gas> meter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurement> dials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. I> called the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurement> meters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that mean> there's a leak and was told yes.>> Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mine> and I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insisted> there was no leak based upon their inspections and also insisted> natural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.>> Carol>>>>

December 20, 2011

Hi, Norm -

I have suffered (and I mean SUFFERED) with MCS since 2003 so I am

relatively new to this illness but it came on suddenly and although I

try my best to avoid environments that are toxic to me, it is a

continuous battle. I even have a great facemask that holds up to

three charcoal filters which does help but it is difficult to wear it

24/7, esp. if you wear glasses that fog up from the mask. I just moved

to Vegas from Colorado and my Colorado house, although it had an

electric stove in the kitchen, did have gas heat, hot water heater,

clothes dryer and a huge gas fireplace in the living room that we used

a lot and I never experienced any symptoms at all in that house.

Unlike you, I have no food sensitivities of which I'm aware and if I

have any, they're so inconsequential that I don't' notice them. I

still try to avoid sugar, white flour and dairy and up until I moved

to Vegas, drank only filtered water and ate all organic foods and I

felt great living there.

I wonder why the gas co. didn't tell me about shutting valves on each

appliance. I think it may be too late for that. I will see how

things go with the stove gas line being capped by the gas co. this

morning. If I start to feel dizzy and motion sickness symptoms in a

day or so, I will have to try to break the lease here. My 90 y.o. mom

lives with me and it is very hard for her to see me suffer like this.

She has not noticed any symptoms at all in the house, its just me. I

think it is coming from the stove because I didn't get sick here in my

bedroom or in the laundry room or even in the garage where the hot

water heater is located. We have not used the gas forced hot air heat

in this house because the air ducts are filthy so we are using

electric space heaters which work just fine. The gas co. guy suggested

we hire a plumber to perform a pressure test but that can be very

expensive and I would rather just leave this place. I doubt anyone

else would react to this house, just me.

The gas meter is located outside along the west facing wall and is

maybe a foot from the house, maybe a bit less. Since I always felt

the worst close to the stove, I am pretty sure the problem has got to

be with the connection to the stove and now that this connection has

been capped, maybe the issue has been resolved. I will keep my

fingers crossed.

Thanks.

Carol

> Carol:

>

> I suffer from MCS, though not as extreme as your symptoms indicate. I have

> had MCS for at least 40 years. Although natural gas is not a powerful

> toxicant for me, I react to perfumes, fragrances in cleaning products,

> paint, and many others. I also have strong food sensitivities.

>

> My point about the gas test is that if you have allowed the gas to flow into

> your house but all your gas appliances have their valves shut off, you can

> then check the gas meter. There may be a gas leak outside the house, which

> the meter may detect, but the easiest way to detect any gas leak within the

> house is to close the valves on all gas appliances. Another option is to

> have the gas company come out and do a pressure test on your gas line. With

> all appliances turned off, including the pilot lights, the gas pressure

> should hold constant after the main valve is turned off. If it falls, there

> is a gas leak.

>

> How close to the house is the gas meter? My understanding is that the

> Uniform Plumbing Code, which is the standard for most states, specifies that

> gas pipes must not be put underground beneath a house. This means that the

> pipes are in your walls or under the floor. You seem to focus on the gas

> stove in the kitchen. How do you feel near the furnace or water heater or

> clothes dryer?

>

> If you have a range hood, does running the fan help?

>

> My California home has a vent connected to the range hood fan over the

> stove. If I leave the fan off, most of the combustion gases enter the

> kitchen. If I turn on the fan, this improves the exhaust of combustion

> gases but leaves a considerable portion to escape into the kitchen.

>

> Norm Gauss

>

> From: iequality [mailto:iequality ] On Behalf

> Of Carol

> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 9:27 AM

> To: iequality

> Subject: Re: Gas leak in house DOES exist after all

>

> Norm -

>

> Are you familiar with MCS? There is no definitive test to prove

> someone suffers from this illness. Diagnosis is made from taking a

> patient's history and lisltening to their experiences with exposures

> and resulting symptoms. I know how I felt WITH the gas stove working,

> how I felt when the gas co. just shut the line to the stove, and how I

> feel now that I have turned off the gas to the house and I am

> convinced I was getting sick from gas. Even the gas company told me

> that if the dials moved after I shut off the gas line to my house (the

> line that is alongside the house with the meter on it) that means

> there is a leak somewhere. In any event, I will never use a gas stove

> again. For those of us who are chemically sensitive, gas stoves are a

> danger.

>

> I don't care what the gas company has to say about what is safe,

> nontoxic, etc. etc. The manufacturers of Febreeze, Lysol and other

> air freshener products will also say their products are safe and

> nontoxic yet I as well as many others suffering with MCS will tell you

> how sick we become when exposed to these products in the environment,

> even for a minute or less. We have an entirely different

> detoxification system than normal people and what is the " norm " for

> one person's chemical tolerance is not the norm for us. Before I

> became chemically sensitive I had no problem with gas stoves,

> Febreeze, Lysol or any other irritant.

>

> Carol

>

> On 12/19/11, Norman Gauss <normangauss@...

> <mailto:normangauss%40charter.net> > wrote:

>> Carol:

>>

>> What does " shut off the gas from the outside to the house " mean?

>>

>> The gas supply pipe usually has a master valve that shuts off the gas

> before

>> it reaches the meter. If you shut off this valve, then no gas reached the

>> meter, and it could not move without any gas flowing through it.

>>

>> If you shut off another master valve downstream from the meter and the

> meter

>> moved, this only demonstrated a gas leak in the pipe before it reached

> your

>> house.

>>

>> Did you shut off the gas supply individually to each appliance one-by-one?

>> You have not proved that a gas leak exists in your house if you shut the

> gas

>> off " outside to the house " .

>>

>> Norm Gauss

>>

>> From: iequality <mailto:iequality%40yahoogroups.com>

> [mailto:iequality <mailto:iequality%40yahoogroups.com> ] On

> Behalf

>> Of Carol

>> Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2011 4:09 PM

>> To: iequality <mailto:iequality%40yahoogroups.com>

>> Subject: Gas leak in house DOES exist after all

>>

>> Hi, everyone -

>>

>> Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all along

>> about a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gas

>> from the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gas

>> meter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurement

>> dials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. I

>> called the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurement

>> meters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that mean

>> there's a leak and was told yes.

>>

>> Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mine

>> and I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insisted

>> there was no leak based upon their inspections and also insisted

>> natural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.

>>

>> Carol

>>

>

December 20, 2011

Norm,

In a perfect world you would have complete combustion creating only water and CO2 and a little NOX. If this were the case we would never need to clean a burner. Every heating contractor routinely cleans burner compartments-where does the debris come from? It must be either improperly adjusted burners or there is something in the fuel. In the case of an oven/cook top we have the added problem of spilled food contaminating the burners causing all sorts of problems. Try measuring CO on a dirty electric stove. The CO will be sky high!

Ventless gas appliances are generally looked upon by inspectors as suspect. Everything must work perfect, and under controlled conditions to work safely where a gas stove does not have to meet the same requirements.

What is the difference between a candle and a gas flame? Only the fuel, but we all acknowledge that candles are bad, but natural gas, out of the ground, is good.

How do we really know whether or not natural gas is not some kind of a health safety hazard? Why should we trust the large gas companies?

I am beginning to think that gas stoves may not be such a good idea to have in a home with small children.

Brad Deal

Gas leak in house DOES exist after all

Hi, everyone -

Thought you'd be interested in knowing that I was right all along

about a potential gas leak in my home. Last Friday I shut off the gas

from the outside to the house and also took a photograph of the gas

meter dials. Today I checked the meter and the cubic feet measurement

dials had moved a LOT and I took another photo of the meter today. I

called the gas co. to ask if the dials on the cubic feet measurement

meters move when the gas to the house is turned off, does that mean

there's a leak and was told yes.

Chemically sensitive people really ARE the canaries in the coal mine

and I guess I proved that with this experience. The gas co. insisted

there was no leak based upon their inspections and also insisted

natural gas is nontoxic. They were wrong on both counts.

Carol

December 21, 2011

The best device to test for gas leaks is a TIF 8800 (under $200).

Using this simple instrument I have found hundreds of gas leaks that

the gas company could not find.

The best way to understand a gas flame is to look at a what a

ells separator does. It is just a glass tube that fits tightly

over a Bunsen burner and separates the upper blue diffusion flame from

the brighter inner-cone flame.

It's amazing to see. You place the tube over the burner, light the

burner and then lift the tube up an inch. The two flames separate

entirely.

The gases that travel up the glass tube (the " inter-conal gases " )

consist almost entirely of carbon monoxide and hydrogen; these gases

are created in the very hot cone flame from the reaction of methane

with oxygen from the pre-mixed gases. When the mixture of hot H2 and

CO hit the air, they combine with more oxygen from the air to produce

CO2 and water vapor.

The geometry of flames is very precise. This explains why CO can

escape from a disturbed flame.

May

May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

Tyngsborough, MA

www.mayindoorair.com

December 21, 2011

I found the TIF at Amazon.com and bought it a couple months ago at your advice

Jeff and will be using it here. Already checked the lines once. I had a

natural gas leak that evidence showed went on for years and caused a lot of

problems for me, including an all over the body sores, that didn't clear up

until the gas leak was discovered and closed up. It was the second time for me

w natural gas leak in the 15 years I've lived here. I think the reason is

because there are 27 joints in gas line and where the main gas line comes in to

the house is the one area of the foundation that has not been able to be

repaired 100% so there is shifting of the foundation causing the joints to move

enough to leak. The gas company has come out recently to see if they can move

the main to a safer spot but they cannot. They suggested 'flexible plumbing' to

cut down on the probability which I have gotten a bid on but cannot afford right

now. In the meantime I will use the detector to check periodically. Some

time I will tell about the signs that were here that were related to a gas line

leak here. It's really very interesting, although I wish I hadn't gone through

it. The energy audit I recently had found it this time. A handyman who was

here found it last time. Both times I had the all over sores and other

symptoms. One dermatologist said I had a very bad case of eczema but it cleared

after the gas leak was repaired. The last time I had the all over body

condition cleared also after years and I never knew what cleared it up but

records show the skin cleared not long after the first gas line repair was done

many years ago.

>

> The best device to test for gas leaks is a TIF 8800 (under $200).

> Using this simple instrument I have found hundreds of gas leaks that

> the gas company could not find.

>

December 22, 2011

Carol,I would have the plumber do the pressure test. It would be CHEAPER than moving and the landlord would be responsible to have it fixed - if there is a leak.The test should consist of installing a pressure gage into the gas line somewhere. The gage needs to be left in place for at least 24 hours. I would request minimally 48 hours just in case its a really slow leak. Also, be sure that the gage can be verified that the gage is working properly as well, i.e. at the end of the test, you open the valve in front of the plumber so you can verify the gage was working properly (not stuck in place).